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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Hi,
Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. |
#2
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![]() "spippy71" wrote in message ... Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. It's a common thing, and is usually fixable with standard cyanoacrylate superglue BUT, you MUST splint it as well. The easiest way to do this is to drill a small hole ( 1 or 1.5 mm ) in the centre of the broken off and still-attached pieces. Then find a tight fitting piece of wire - I use enamelled copper wire - and superglue it into one of the holes you've just made. Now cut the wire off to a length to suit the depth of the hole in the other piece, put some superglue in the hole, and push the two pieces firmly together. This will repair the switch shaft as strong as the original. Have done it many times ... Arfa |
#3
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![]() "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "spippy71" wrote in message ... Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. It's a common thing, and is usually fixable with standard cyanoacrylate superglue BUT, you MUST splint it as well. The easiest way to do this is to drill a small hole ( 1 or 1.5 mm ) in the centre of the broken off and still-attached pieces. Then find a tight fitting piece of wire - I use enamelled copper wire - and superglue it into one of the holes you've just made. Now cut the wire off to a length to suit the depth of the hole in the other piece, put some superglue in the hole, and push the two pieces firmly together. This will repair the switch shaft as strong as the original. Have done it many times ... Arfa Another trick that avois the drilling and works well on small pieces is to just heat up a bit of lead trim from a cap or resistor and melt it into the parts. A little glue combined with this works well in many cases. Leonard |
#4
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The switch is a safety device and should be replaced ONLY
with an approved one. The people advising super glue and worse are dangerous ****s who shouldn't be anywhere near electrical equipment. Of course if you want your house burnt down then go ahead.... |
#5
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They're just gluing a plastic switch activator -- the switch
itself isn't being touched in any way. If there's room, I'd use heat shrink around the repaired shaft. Just Another Theremin Fan wrote: The switch is a safety device and should be replaced ONLY with an approved one. The people advising super glue and worse are dangerous ****s who shouldn't be anywhere near electrical equipment. Of course if you want your house burnt down then go ahead.... |
#6
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![]() "Just Another Theremin Fan" wrote in message oups.com... The switch is a safety device and should be replaced ONLY with an approved one. The people advising super glue and worse are dangerous ****s who shouldn't be anywhere near electrical equipment. Of course if you want your house burnt down then go ahead.... The repair to the switch that I and Leonard proposed, is not in the slightest bit dangerous, and anyone that understands these things would agree. You are perfectly entitled to express your opinion, but if you want to do it here, kindly moderate your language. Arfa |
#7
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The repair to the switch that I and Leonard proposed, is not in the
slightest bit dangerous, What other response would anyone expect from a cowboy who names himself after a used car shyster....? I'm sure the manufacturers would in no way encouraging your dangerous antics. I also hope you have informed your house insurers of what you are doing. In event of a fire you wouldn't receive a penny (or cent). There is also no reason why others should have their lives put in danger by such bodgery. |
#8
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![]() "Just Another Theremin Fan" wrote in message oups.com... The repair to the switch that I and Leonard proposed, is not in the slightest bit dangerous, What other response would anyone expect from a cowboy who names himself after a used car shyster....? I'm sure the manufacturers would in no way encouraging your dangerous antics. I also hope you have informed your house insurers of what you are doing. In event of a fire you wouldn't receive a penny (or cent). There is also no reason why others should have their lives put in danger by such bodgery. You silly person. Of course in a perfect world, the switch would be replaced, but this is not a perfect world, and unless the OP is a monitor repairer by trade, and has a stash of scrappers around to cull a switch from, the chances of him being able to obtain an EXACT replacement that didn't require a TRULY dangerous bodge to shoehorn it in, particularly for a Dell, are slim to zero. I repeat that there is NOTHING DANGEROUS about repairing the plastic shaft of a switch, which is operated by a further extension PLASTIC shaft, and if you think otherwise, then you clearly don't understand very much about electricity, and the safety of working with it. Bear in mind also, that the poster didn't actually say that it was a line power switch. It may well be a low voltage standby switch. Many monitor ' power ' switches are. Cowboy ? Used car shyster ? Go play some mournful music on your theremin. Arfa |
#9
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Where do you get the idea that a switch is a safety device????
Never heard of that before, fuses/ thermal fuses / protection ICs / circuit breakers and a few more that I have not mentioned. But nowhere is a switch a safety device unless it is configured as "Panic switch" "emergency shut off" or some sort of circuitry to shut off in case of emrgency or fire. This switch is simply a device to turn on the electronic circuitry on the circuit board, in this case there is only low voltage going thru this switch, to a control IC/microprocessor or some similar circuitry. Although it might sound strange to use krazy glue , it is merely re-attaching the plastic knob to the switch part itself, nothing else. In what way would that constitude a safety hazard (taken for granted that the device is unplugged before doing so). Not sure in what part of electronic repair you do your work but comments like yours are definetly not welcome on a newsgroup like this. Yes if I were to do this repair for a customer, I would certainly replace it with a new one, but if another techie or someone who figures that hecan do the job himself , want the easy route in order to save time/work, then lets help him out. My2cents. |
#10
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![]() "spippy71" wrote in message ... Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. If it's a feather-touch control, then a cyanoacrylate will do. The best 1-part cyanoacrylate for plastic, IMHO, is called Plastic Surgery. This is made, as the name suggests, especially for plastics -- it has a bit of solvent in it which bites into the material, unlike garden-variety Super Glues. I used to only find this at Walgreens, but it's been a while, so I dunno who might stock it now. There are some good 2-part cyanoacrylates (1 part is an accelerator). These set up very fast, but Plastic Surgery performs as well as most 2-parters. If, otoh, the plastic is under more stress, as with a high-current power switch (cuz ya use more force to push it), you need a less brittle adhesive for a lasting repair. A really great product, albeit somewhat esoteric, is called Plas-T-Pair by Rawn. This is a two-part, resin-based system -- you mix plastic powder with a solvent and form up the compound. This stuff is perfect for damage where there's missing bits of plastic, as you can make it as thick or thin as you like and mold it into whatever shape you want while it's curing, after which it can be drilled, filed and sanded to match the original part's shape. I use the liquid solvent by itself for quick welds where the parts meet up perfectly and there will be little stress on the piece. Where greater strength is needed, I mix it up and leave a sheath of Plas-T-Pair around the part in question. Another specialty solvent I use is called Pro-Weld by Ambroid. It's a 2oz. bottle of liquid with brush built into the cap. It bonds Styrene, Butyrate, ABS, Acrylics, etc. This solvent creates solid joints and it sets up super quick. For future reference, just in case you dig into a piece of equipment where you might need to repair a nylon part, forget it! I have yet to discover a solvent that will work on nylon gears and the like. You might as well try to weld teflon together. About the only thing available for these is tape. I know there are some surgical-grade products that claim they work on Teflon and Nylon, but I'll believe that when I see it. |
#11
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Where do you get the idea that a switch is a safety device????
From every manufacturer that I have ever dealt with! Try learning a bit more before bodging.... A mains switch *IS* a safety device which should only be replaced with an approved part. |
#12
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![]() Arfa Daily wrote: I repeat that there is NOTHING DANGEROUS about repairing the plastic shaft of a switch, which is operated by a further extension PLASTIC shaft, and if you think otherwise, then you clearly don't understand very much about electricity, and the safety of working with it. I am a qualified electronic engineer. I am also a qualified electrical engineer. And you? Bear in mind also, that the poster didn't actually say that it was a line power switch. It may well be a low voltage standby switch. Many monitor ' power ' switches are. Oh that's ok then. We'll have a low Voltage fire instead of a high voltage fire! Carry on bodging chaps! |
#13
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mikercana1 wrote:
Where do you get the idea that a switch is a safety device???? Many manufacturers list the mains switch as a 'critical safety component' which means it should only be replaced by the manufactureres part number. Same with safety resistors and fuses - how often does anyone order exact replacement fuses from the manufacturer of the device! Many generic mains switches can be found to fit and be utilised, that`s against the advice of the manufacturer, but it`s up to the engineer who fits it to make sure that it leaves his workshop in a safe condition. A repaired plastic part shoudn`t constitute a safety hazard, but there`s always a chance that someone will bring a case against you in the event of a subsequent failure involving damage or harm. Ron(UK) -- Lune Valley Audio Public address system Hire, Sales, Repairs www.lunevalleyaudio.com |
#14
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![]() Ron(UK) wrote: mikercana1 wrote: Where do you get the idea that a switch is a safety device???? Many manufacturers list the mains switch as a 'critical safety component' which means it should only be replaced by the manufactureres part number. Which is what I said. Many generic mains switches can be found to fit and be utilised, that`s against the advice of the manufacturer, but it`s up to the engineer who fits it to make sure that it leaves his workshop in a safe condition. Any "engineer" doing so would leave himself wide open to legal action. Possibly criminal legal action if things went badly wrong. "Real" engineers might remember the Sony TV switch fiasco a few years back which resulted in several fires. A repaired plastic part shoudn`t constitute a safety hazard, "Shouldn't". These jokers are sticking lumps of copper wire up the middle of plastic shafts. What happens if the shaft snaps again and the wire is exposed? Ron(UK) Can you imagine the fuss these people would kick up if they put their Ford car in a garage and got it back with a Vauxhall engine stitched in it? |
#15
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![]() "Just Another Theremin Fan" wrote in message oups.com... Ron(UK) wrote: mikercana1 wrote: Where do you get the idea that a switch is a safety device???? Many manufacturers list the mains switch as a 'critical safety component' which means it should only be replaced by the manufactureres part number. Which is what I said. Many generic mains switches can be found to fit and be utilised, that`s against the advice of the manufacturer, but it`s up to the engineer who fits it to make sure that it leaves his workshop in a safe condition. Any "engineer" doing so would leave himself wide open to legal action. Possibly criminal legal action if things went badly wrong. "Real" engineers might remember the Sony TV switch fiasco a few years back which resulted in several fires. A repaired plastic part shoudn`t constitute a safety hazard, "Shouldn't". These jokers are sticking lumps of copper wire up the middle of plastic shafts. What happens if the shaft snaps again and the wire is exposed? Ron(UK) Can you imagine the fuss these people would kick up if they put their Ford car in a garage and got it back with a Vauxhall engine stitched in it? You're getting this out of all proportion, and trying to liken apples to oranges. And yes, I am a fully qualified electronics engineer, and have been for more years than I care to remember. The Sony debacle was due to the switch itself failing as I recall. This had nothing to do with its plastic shaft. Your point about a " low voltage fire " is pure and utter nonsense. Perhaps you'd like to explain to us all, with your obviously superior knowledge of these things, just exactly how a repaired plastic shaft is going to catch fire - especially one on a switch with a seriously current limited 5v supply on it. Perhaps you think that the mains voltage is magically going to jump across to the floating piece of copper wire inside that 5mm square shaft. The place at which these switch shafts break, is at least a cm from where any actual power carrying contacts are located, and usually where the external metal clip and return spring is placed - perhaps you're suggesting that the manufacturers don't know what they are doing either when they fit a lump of metal to the outside of the switch. Likewise, when they fit another dirty great lump of metal to the switch body itself to make a mounting bracket. As I said before, in an ideal world, the switch should be replaced, and yes, I agree that it is usually a designated safety part, but by the same token, it is often impossible to obtain manufacturer's replacement parts, and a generic from one of the main component suppliers, has to be used. Are you seriously suggesting that these are dangerous devices and, if an original part cannot be obtained, that the piece of equipment should be dumped in the nearest landfill ? To examine your car analogy a bit further. We are not talking here about grafting an IBM chassis into a Dell monitor. We are talking about repairing one part within the existing chassis. If you took your Rover to the garage with a braking problem, and they told you that it was a wheel cylinder problem, but that the original part was no longer available, when they suggested to you that they could repair your original wheel cylinder, by redressing its surface, and fitting new seals from a manufacturer of replacement brake parts, would you tell them no, better tow the whole car to the nearest scrapyard ? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd have it repaired and trust that the garage were doing something that was considered safe. The OP is not a professional repairer, and is not laying himself open to prosecution for doing something improper to a customer's unit - he is merely trying to repair a personal item. His house is not going to burn down as a result - even if the shaft breaks again, and the piece of wire does become exposed - and how that is going to have any effect is beyond me anyway. You really are just being pedantic about this. Arfa |
#16
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![]() Arfa Daily wrote: The OP is not a professional repairer, That's stating the obvious! He's a bodger... His house is not going to burn down as a result - even if the shaft breaks again, and the piece of wire does become exposed - and how that is going to have any effect is beyond me anyway. OK have it your way. The risk of exposed wires sticking out of a telly is perfectly safe! really are just being pedantic about this. If having good safety standards is "being pedantic" than call me pedantic! |
#17
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![]() "Just Another Theremin Fan" wrote in message oups.com... Arfa Daily wrote: The OP is not a professional repairer, That's stating the obvious! He's a bodger... His house is not going to burn down as a result - even if the shaft breaks again, and the piece of wire does become exposed - and how that is going to have any effect is beyond me anyway. OK have it your way. The risk of exposed wires sticking out of a telly is perfectly safe! really are just being pedantic about this. If having good safety standards is "being pedantic" than call me pedantic! He's not a bodger - in fact we don't know what he is other than a person who asked a perfectly reasonable question on a newsgroup dedicated to such items. As far as " wires sticking out of a telly " goes, where does this come from ? Any fool with two brain cells can see that this ridiculous statement bears no relevance to anything that's been said in the thread by any one other than yourself. Clearly, exposed wires sticking out of a television set is a serious safety issue, and no one in their right mind would suggest otherwise, but a solid repair to a plastic shaft, on a switch worked by a plastic extension untouchably secured inside a monitor cabinet, can by no means be construed as a serious safety issue. Yes, I called you pedantic ( which is a lot more polite than what you called myself and Leonard ) and if you insist that this really is a safety standard issue, then I stand by that. I really don't have a problem with you having high safety standards, and like most, if not all of the professionals who frequent this group, I would NEVER advocate anything which would be generally considered in the business, to be dangerous to life or hazardous in terms of property damage. I too have high safety standards, but applied in a sensible way. In 35 years, no repair of mine has ever electrocuted anyone, or burnt their house down. Clearly, we're never going to see eye to eye on this, so I think we'll have to just agree to differ, and leave it to the OP to decide if he considers it safe to repair his switch, or tries to get a manufacturer's replacement. Arfa |
#18
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![]() "Arfa Daily" wrote in message ... "Just Another Theremin Fan" wrote in message oups.com... Arfa Daily wrote: The OP is not a professional repairer, That's stating the obvious! He's a bodger... His house is not going to burn down as a result - even if the shaft breaks again, and the piece of wire does become exposed - and how that is going to have any effect is beyond me anyway. OK have it your way. The risk of exposed wires sticking out of a telly is perfectly safe! really are just being pedantic about this. If having good safety standards is "being pedantic" than call me pedantic! He's not a bodger - in fact we don't know what he is other than a person who asked a perfectly reasonable question on a newsgroup dedicated to such items. As far as " wires sticking out of a telly " goes, where does this come from ? Any fool with two brain cells can see that this ridiculous statement bears no relevance to anything that's been said in the thread by any one other than yourself. Clearly, exposed wires sticking out of a television set is a serious safety issue, and no one in their right mind would suggest otherwise, but a solid repair to a plastic shaft, on a switch worked by a plastic extension untouchably secured inside a monitor cabinet, can by no means be construed as a serious safety issue. Yes, I called you pedantic ( which is a lot more polite than what you called myself and Leonard ) and if you insist that this really is a safety standard issue, then I stand by that. I really don't have a problem with you having high safety standards, and like most, if not all of the professionals who frequent this group, I would NEVER advocate anything which would be generally considered in the business, to be dangerous to life or hazardous in terms of property damage. I too have high safety standards, but applied in a sensible way. In 35 years, no repair of mine has ever electrocuted anyone, or burnt their house down. Clearly, we're never going to see eye to eye on this, so I think we'll have to just agree to differ, and leave it to the OP to decide if he considers it safe to repair his switch, or tries to get a manufacturer's replacement. Arfa I thought I was the pedantic asshole on this group. LOL. Obviously, this guy is just trying to demonstrate his superiority by finding something to criticize. Just let him be, Arfa, and don't waste you time on him anymore. Like you, I would never advocate kludging a power switch or other safety related item. Patching plastic parts that are often not available or are part of expensive assemblies is another matter and is clearly a different matter. Leonard |
#19
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![]() Leonard Caillouet wrote: Like you, I would never advocate kludging a power switch or other safety related item. Patching plastic parts that are often not available or are part of expensive assemblies is another matter and is clearly a different matter. Now who's being pedantic? One mans "patch" is another mans "kludge"! |
#20
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![]() "Ray L. Volts" wrote in message news ![]() "spippy71" wrote in message ... Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. If it's a feather-touch control, then a cyanoacrylate will do. The best 1-part cyanoacrylate for plastic, IMHO, is called Plastic Surgery. This is made, as the name suggests, especially for plastics -- it has a bit of solvent in it which bites into the material, unlike garden-variety Super Glues. I used to only find this at Walgreens, but it's been a while, so I dunno who might stock it now. There are some good 2-part cyanoacrylates (1 part is an accelerator). These set up very fast, but Plastic Surgery performs as well as most 2-parters. If, otoh, the plastic is under more stress, as with a high-current power switch (cuz ya use more force to push it), you need a less brittle adhesive for a lasting repair. A really great product, albeit somewhat esoteric, is called Plas-T-Pair by Rawn. This is a two-part, resin-based system -- you mix plastic powder with a solvent and form up the compound. This stuff is perfect for damage where there's missing bits of plastic, as you can make it as thick or thin as you like and mold it into whatever shape you want while it's curing, after which it can be drilled, filed and sanded to match the original part's shape. I use the liquid solvent by itself for quick welds where the parts meet up perfectly and there will be little stress on the piece. Where greater strength is needed, I mix it up and leave a sheath of Plas-T-Pair around the part in question. Another specialty solvent I use is called Pro-Weld by Ambroid. It's a 2oz. bottle of liquid with brush built into the cap. It bonds Styrene, Butyrate, ABS, Acrylics, etc. This solvent creates solid joints and it sets up super quick. For future reference, just in case you dig into a piece of equipment where you might need to repair a nylon part, forget it! I have yet to discover a solvent that will work on nylon gears and the like. You might as well try to weld teflon together. About the only thing available for these is tape. I know there are some surgical-grade products that claim they work on Teflon and Nylon, but I'll believe that when I see it. So if it was a real question, how about some input from the OP ? Did you repair the switch in the end, or were you frightened off by some of the comments ? Did you manage to get a new switch to fit ? Or did you perhaps take it to the tip and resolve never to buy anything from eBay again, or at least if you do and it arrives broken, not to dare ask about it again on here ? Did you feel that the positive or negative comments were justified ? Just interested to know ... Arfa |
#21
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![]() Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. If it were a monitor I owned, I would just go inside and jumper the power switch so it's hot. I haven't turned a monitor off with a power switch in years. When there is no signal, they turn off. |
#22
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On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:39:47 GMT, "Michael Ware"
wrote: Hi, Recently purchased a monitor from eBay. It's a Dell 19" Monitor model P991 - Sony Trinitron. The monitor was dropped by the courier, and did some damage to the power button. I've opened the monitor to have a look and. Exterior button and spring are fine. It's the internal switch that is damaged. The plastic arm broke away from the switch shaft. The switch is is soldered onto the "D" board. The Exterior button pushes the arm, which turns the switch on/off. Anyone know the best way to reattach the shaft to the switch? Which glue or cement would work best on these two plastic parts to make a solid bond? I can post pictures if necessary. Thanks, Steve. If it were a monitor I owned, I would just go inside and jumper the power switch so it's hot. I haven't turned a monitor off with a power switch in years. When there is no signal, they turn off. Right! If you really feel the need to be able to power the unit off, say when you have brown-outs or lightning storms just wire an inline on/off switch onto the power cord. They can be gotten at any hardware store. |
#23
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I cant believe everybody is fighting over a simple problem.
flame wars wouldnt help anybody. I believe there's nothing wrong with using superglue or any other adhesive since these are mostly non-conductant, just be sure that you know what you're doing and be careful if you're going to use a splint to keep the switch steady. Michael's suggestion of jumping the switch so that it would permanently stay on is good too. however if it were my monitor. I would try to get a replacement switch for my monitor then solder it in like all good guys do. If not, i would just make an arpeture either at the front or the back of the monitor with a little hacking and create my own switch. ![]() |
#24
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#25
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Now that's a good suggestion coming from a "qualified
electronic/electrical engineer" ![]() hurt your feelings. quit the brag-fetish. it's so gay. |
#26
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