On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

qrk wrote in
:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On 04 Jul 2007 02:23:27 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

[snip]

Do you know what the median salary for a physician is in the
USA? It's far more than what is necessary to feed a family of
forty :-)

[snip]

You just proved yourself the consummate village idiot.
Physician's in the USA average about $140K/year after costs.


1996 figures, 2006 the average is $230K, median is $226K.
That's after expenses.

Do you think that's enough to feed a family of forty ?:-)

In India, sure, in your colony, Iraq, definitely.


...Jim Thompson
Jeez Jim, you're getting slow! He stated "median" salary,
then, compares it with "average" salary.

I didn't compare. I just posted numbers.

Who knows what
definition of "median" was used in Bob's reported statistic.

Median can only be one thing, the point at which equal numbers
of candidates are above and below the median value. Average on
the other hand, can be determined many ways. (sum N / N,
min+max/2, etc.) Note that in any well ordered sample median and
average are pretty close. If there is a discrepancy, then you
have a distorted bell curve.


Stadistics can be a dangerous tool. BTW, in some countries,
140k could feed a family of 40 or more.

What's with the Canadian $ being on par with the US$ these
days. That's making my vacation more expensive!. Lousy US
currency!

It's gonna get a lot worse unless you stop burning it.

---
Agreed, and...

I work from home, as I'm sure a lot of the rest of us do, so my use
of petrochemicals to get me from place to place has been largely
eliminated since I can get from place to place online for a lot less
than 16 miles per gallon.


--
JF

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

qrk wrote in
:

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On 04 Jul 2007 02:23:27 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

[snip]

Do you know what the median salary for a physician is in the
USA? It's far more than what is necessary to feed a family of
forty :-)

[snip]

You just proved yourself the consummate village idiot.
Physician's in the USA average about $140K/year after costs.


1996 figures, 2006 the average is $230K, median is $226K.
That's after expenses.

Do you think that's enough to feed a family of forty ?:-)

In India, sure, in your colony, Iraq, definitely.


...Jim Thompson
Jeez Jim, you're getting slow! He stated "median" salary,
then, compares it with "average" salary.

I didn't compare. I just posted numbers.

Who knows what
definition of "median" was used in Bob's reported statistic.

Median can only be one thing, the point at which equal numbers
of candidates are above and below the median value. Average on
the other hand, can be determined many ways. (sum N / N,
min+max/2, etc.) Note that in any well ordered sample median and
average are pretty close. If there is a discrepancy, then you
have a distorted bell curve.


Stadistics can be a dangerous tool. BTW, in some countries,
140k could feed a family of 40 or more.

What's with the Canadian $ being on par with the US$ these
days. That's making my vacation more expensive!. Lousy US
currency!

It's gonna get a lot worse unless you stop burning it.



---
Mark



--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

You must be a liberal/leftist weenie... make up numbers to fit your
argument:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...Doctors/Salary

My remembered number of $140K seems to be dead-on.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal

You must be a liberal/leftist weenie... make up numbers to fit
your argument:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...Jobs_as_Physic
i
ans_%2f_Doctors/Salary

My remembered number of $140K seems to be dead-on.

...Jim Thompson
So die already, You are just an uglly fat american for making
such an unfounded accusation.

try http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

This has it at over 200,000 for mostr specailities.

Or
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/TiffanyYam.shtml
which says "Perhaps because of persistent high salaries
($186,000 average physician compensation in 1994) there is
little public sympathy for the physician's current plight."
or
http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensat...cian_compensat
ion_survey.htm

or
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/20...tors_sala.html

which says
Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than
they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent year
for which data are available for multiple countries, the average
U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable OECD median
physician income was $70,324.

I'll let my numbers stand.
--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John Fields wrote in
:

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:



What's with the Canadian $ being on par with the US$ these
days. That's making my vacation more expensive!. Lousy US
currency!

It's gonna get a lot worse unless you stop burning it.

---
Agreed, and...

I work from home, as I'm sure a lot of the rest of us do, so
my use of petrochemicals to get me from place to place has
been largely eliminated since I can get from place to place
online for a lot less than 16 miles per gallon.


Good for you, I try to use public transport when I'm in town.
but I wasn't only alluding to oil prices. The deficit the US is
running up is staggering.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:58:44 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:42:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:

Hillary is right.

No, she's in favor of socialist medicine, which is based on
theft, and therefore wrong.

Public service medicine is based on theft????

Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

Of course, the neocons are no better - in fact, maybe worse,
because they tax your children by borrowing the money, and
then spending it on unholy crusades and invading your privacy
and various and sundry abuses of their authorized
constitutional powers.

Thanks,
Rich





--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:58:44 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:42:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Hillary is right.
No, she's in favor of socialist medicine, which is based on
theft, and therefore wrong.

Public service medicine is based on theft????
Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:35:21 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On 04 Jul 2007 02:25:45 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote
in :


As we are of the ****ing snow birds that don't know how to drive.

...Jim Thompson

Only the old ones...


That's all that make it to Arizona.

BTW, I'm nearly 68, and I can out-drive everyone here... want to test
me ?:-)


Yawn.

Hey Mikey! I'm just saying I'm not senile... yet ;-)


So, you're still DRAG racing?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On 2007-07-05, Chuck Harris wrote:

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

noones forcing you to join, however if you want access to the green...

Bye.
Jasen

Chuck Harris wrote in
:



Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:58:44 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:42:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Hillary is right.
No, she's in favor of socialist medicine, which is based
on
theft, and therefore wrong.

Public service medicine is based on theft????
Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

No, you are not forced to join. You can stay off the property.
Antartica has no income taxes.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote in
:

On 05 Jul 2007 11:53:41 GMT, the renowned Bob Quintal
wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote in
:



Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:58:44 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote
in
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:42:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Hillary is right.
No, she's in favor of socialist medicine, which is based
on
theft, and therefore wrong.

Public service medicine is based on theft????
Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from
your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to
pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think
of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

No, you are not forced to join. You can stay off the property.
Antartica has no income taxes.

In most countries, but not if you're American (or Iranian).
Your
citizenship means you are liable for taxes.

Getting off the property would be moving to Antartica and
renouncing US citizenship.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 05 Jul 2007 11:53:41 GMT, the renowned Bob Quintal
wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote in
:



Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:58:44 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:42:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Hillary is right.
No, she's in favor of socialist medicine, which is based
on
theft, and therefore wrong.

Public service medicine is based on theft????
Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

No, you are not forced to join. You can stay off the property.
Antartica has no income taxes.

In most countries, but not if you're American (or Iranian). Your
citizenship means you are liable for taxes.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 05 Jul 2007 00:47:45 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal

You must be a liberal/leftist weenie... make up numbers to
fit your argument:


http://www.payscale.com/research/US/..._Jobs_as_Physi
c
i
ans_%2f_Doctors/Salary

My remembered number of $140K seems to be dead-on.

...Jim Thompson
So die already, You are just an uglly fat american for making
such an unfounded accusation.

try http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

This has it at over 200,000 for mostr specailities.

Or
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/TiffanyYam.shtml
which says "Perhaps because of persistent high salaries
($186,000 average physician compensation in 1994) there is
little public sympathy for the physician's current plight."
or

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensat...ician_compensa
t ion_survey.htm

or
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/20...tors_sala.html

which says
Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than
they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent
year for which data are available for multiple countries, the
average U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable
OECD median physician income was $70,324.

I'll let my numbers stand.
--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Take your numbers and shove 'em where you will. I know,
personally, many doctors in the USA. They're struggling,
because of government meddling and below-par Medicare
payments.

I didn't realize you were a proctologist. I thought you were an
engineer.

I know a bunch of doctors in the USA too. I dated one for a few
years. She now practices in Baltimore, MD. One of my cousins is
a doctor, too. She practices in upper NY state. I have a good
idea of their disposable income. It is greater than the gross
pay of 80% of all american families.


I suspect your numbers are for a _practice_, not the
individual's take-home after overhead.



I'll have to ask my next-door neighbor, an anesthesiologist,
why he washes his own car.

I don't ;-)

Maybe because he's not a crotchety old fart.

...Jim Thompson



--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 05 Jul 2007 00:47:45 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal

You must be a liberal/leftist weenie... make up numbers to fit
your argument:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...Jobs_as_Physic
i
ans_%2f_Doctors/Salary

My remembered number of $140K seems to be dead-on.

...Jim Thompson
So die already, You are just an uglly fat american for making
such an unfounded accusation.

try http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

This has it at over 200,000 for mostr specailities.

Or
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/TiffanyYam.shtml
which says "Perhaps because of persistent high salaries
($186,000 average physician compensation in 1994) there is
little public sympathy for the physician's current plight."
or
http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensat...cian_compensat
ion_survey.htm

or
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/20...tors_sala.html

which says
Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than
they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent year
for which data are available for multiple countries, the average
U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable OECD median
physician income was $70,324.

I'll let my numbers stand.
--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Take your numbers and shove 'em where you will. I know, personally,
many doctors in the USA. They're struggling, because of government
meddling and below-par Medicare payments.

I suspect your numbers are for a _practice_, not the individual's
take-home after overhead.

I'll have to ask my next-door neighbor, an anesthesiologist, why he
washes his own car.

I don't ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 05:24:17 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:35:21 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On 04 Jul 2007 02:25:45 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote
in :


As we are of the ****ing snow birds that don't know how to drive.

...Jim Thompson

Only the old ones...


That's all that make it to Arizona.

BTW, I'm nearly 68, and I can out-drive everyone here... want to test
me ?:-)


Yawn.

Hey Mikey! I'm just saying I'm not senile... yet ;-)


So, you're still DRAG racing?

Who, me? Would I do that? Only to smart asses in Beemers and
Mercedes who think they are superior... then I give 'em a rice-burner
"demonstration" ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On 05 Jul 2007 13:58:55 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 05 Jul 2007 00:47:45 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

Jim Thompson
wrote in :

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal

You must be a liberal/leftist weenie... make up numbers to
fit your argument:


http://www.payscale.com/research/US/..._Jobs_as_Physi
c
i
ans_%2f_Doctors/Salary

My remembered number of $140K seems to be dead-on.

...Jim Thompson
So die already, You are just an uglly fat american for making
such an unfounded accusation.

try http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html

This has it at over 200,000 for mostr specailities.

Or
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/TiffanyYam.shtml
which says "Perhaps because of persistent high salaries
($186,000 average physician compensation in 1994) there is
little public sympathy for the physician's current plight."
or

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensat...ician_compensa
t ion_survey.htm

or
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/20...tors_sala.html

which says
Physicians’ incomes are much higher in the United States than
they are in other OECD countries. In 1996, the most recent
year for which data are available for multiple countries, the
average U.S. physician income was $199,000. The comparable
OECD median physician income was $70,324.

I don't really give a flying fill-in-the-blank what OECD median is.


I'll let my numbers stand.
--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Take your numbers and shove 'em where you will. I know,
personally, many doctors in the USA. They're struggling,
because of government meddling and below-par Medicare
payments.

I didn't realize you were a proctologist. I thought you were an
engineer.

Particularly good with steel pipe ;-)


I know a bunch of doctors in the USA too. I dated one for a few
years. She now practices in Baltimore, MD. One of my cousins is
a doctor, too. She practices in upper NY state. I have a good
idea of their disposable income. It is greater than the gross
pay of 80% of all american families.

So what? So do I, and many of the posters here who work for a living.



I suspect your numbers are for a _practice_, not the
individual's take-home after overhead.



I'll have to ask my next-door neighbor, an anesthesiologist,
why he washes his own car.

I don't ;-)

Maybe because he's not a crotchety old fart.


Better than being a ****ing socialist.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:56:29 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in

Yes - it's paid for by taxes, which are extracted from your
paycheck, by force if they need to, whether you want to pay
them or not.

Which is pretty much the definition of theft.

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.


I have no need of any army or police, but I'm _required_ to join
this club even though it's nothing but a ripoff operation.

"Oh, just wait'll you're mugged, you'll want the police!" I hear
you cry.

No, I don't go places where I'm likely to get mugged, and if I
did, I'd learn to take care of myself.

"But we need the army for when somebody attacks us!"

No, actually, that's what The Right To Keep And Bear Arms is about.

Imagine any foreign occupation force trying to take over an America
where everyone has enough self-respect to arm themselves and enough
wherewithal to protect their family.

They wouldn't get past Manhattan.

And an administration that's bent on insane crusades is the worst
excuse for taxation of them all.

Thanks,
Rich

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:53:28 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2007-07-05, Chuck Harris wrote:

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think of
taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

noones forcing you to join, however if you want access to the green...


Oh, yeah? Try putting "$0.00" for "tax owed" on your IRS form, and see
what "force" actually means...

Good Luck!
Rich

"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in message
news
"But we need the army for when somebody attacks us!"
No, actually, that's what The Right To Keep And Bear Arms is about.

It's not realistic, as an individual, to defend yourself against an ICBM. Or
even a tank... and let's not even start down the road of biological
weapons...

Even Ayn Rand's objectivists believe in having a military, although I seem to
recall they believe that an all volunteer army will do.

I think the objectivsts suffer from the same sort of blind-sightedness that
you might, Rich: It's one thing to say that everyone will be well-informed and
diligent and act based on a balance between their own best interests and those
of the country they're a part of, but in acutality there are far too many
people out there who are evil, corrupt, or just plain apathetic who'll spoil
it for everyone without a little government oversight. When modern communists
claim that communism has never actually "failed" because there's never been a
"true" communist country, I think they're 100% correct... what they don't
realize is that there never will be one either!

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:53:28 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2007-07-05, Chuck Harris
wrote:

And the Army, or Police? It's not theft, you need to think
of taxes like the annual membership dues for a golf club.

That you are forced to join.

noones forcing you to join, however if you want access to the
green...


Oh, yeah? Try putting "$0.00" for "tax owed" on your IRS form,
and see what "force" actually means...

so you want access to the green but you don't want to pay....

Spoiled Brat.

Good Luck!
Rich




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:53:28 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

noones forcing you to join, however if you want access to the
green...

Oh, yeah? Try putting "$0.00" for "tax owed" on your IRS form,
and see what "force" actually means...

so you want access to the green but you don't want to pay....

Spoiled Brat.

What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I
don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand over
my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value where we
both come out ahead.

But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make that decision.

And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a piece
of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they won't use
force against you" and your response is "you don't want to pay"...

Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They should
be responsible for their own damn bills!

Anything else is either communist or fascist, but definitely statist.

And are you afraid to try because you're addicted to _your_ "piece
of the green"?

Thanks,
Rich

"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:53:28 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

noones forcing you to join, however if you want access to the
green...

Oh, yeah? Try putting "$0.00" for "tax owed" on your IRS form,
and see what "force" actually means...

so you want access to the green but you don't want to pay....

Spoiled Brat.

What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I
don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand over
my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value where we
both come out ahead.

But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make that decision.

And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a piece
of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they won't use
force against you" and your response is "you don't want to pay"...

Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They should
be responsible for their own damn bills!

Anything else is either communist or fascist, but definitely statist.

And are you afraid to try because you're addicted to _your_ "piece
of the green"?


Rich, weren't you living in the field before the green was built????

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:49:28 -0700, Joel Kolstad wrote:
"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in message
news
"But we need the army for when somebody attacks us!"
No, actually, that's what The Right To Keep And Bear Arms is about.

It's not realistic, as an individual, to defend yourself against an ICBM.

How, exactly, does the presence of 140,000 soldiers/marines/etc in Iraq
and who knows how many in Afghanistan and Basra, defend me against an ICBM?

Or
even a tank... and let's not even start down the road of biological
weapons...

Same question.

And why would anybody want to attack us anyway, except as retaliation for
some atocity that the US has committed with its military might?

It's the US invasions all over the place that are the _motivation_ for
"terrorism" and the bomb threat. North Korea and Iran want nukes so that
they're not caught defenseless when whatever lunatic is in office decides
to go on another crusade.

Thanks,
Rich

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in

What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I

I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership fee
to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you gotta pay
the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens, or drink in
the clubhousew, get off the golf course...

don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand
over my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value
where we both come out ahead.

But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make that
decision.

BullS#!T.

You have a vote.You have the right to get involved in politics.
Get off your lazy butt and work at steering political decisions.

And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

Your original point is wrong, for the same reason that you
asking a customer to pay you for goods or services you provide
is not theft.

The fact that you are a spoiled little brat and cannot stop
whining long enough to understand that is nobody's fault except
yours.
..
You enjoy the protection of the police and fire departments,
benefits of a transportation infrastructure, etc. etc. You
cannot just say I don't need no stinkin roads.


You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a piece
of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they won't use
force against you" and your response is "you don't want to
pay"...

Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They
should be responsible for their own damn bills!

Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health of
the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she spreads
tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.

Anything else is either communist or fascist, but definitely
statist.

The fact that you fail to see anything except your own greedy
little self says which of those two titles applies to you.

And are you afraid to try because you're addicted to _your_
"piece of the green"?

Try what? I try to be truthful, forthright, and caring. That's
all that matters.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I

I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership fee
to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you gotta pay
the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens, or drink in
the clubhousew, get off the golf course...

The problem with your view, is it requires that private ownership
be null and void. I cannot own my part of the green, the government
does, and just lets me use it for a fee.

That is nothing but a socialist/communist form of government.

don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand
over my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value
where we both come out ahead.

But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make that
decision.

BullS#!T.

You have a vote.You have the right to get involved in politics.
Get off your lazy butt and work at steering political decisions.

Again, as Rich said, I am denied the right to make that decision for
myself. I, as you said, have to lobby (beg) the rest of the people,
or the government to let me make the decision. That is not free will,
that is socialism.

And you have also completely skirted the original point, that
taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

Your original point is wrong, for the same reason that you
asking a customer to pay you for goods or services you provide
is not theft.

No it isn't the same. I choose whether I wish to frequent the store.
I choose which goods I would like to own, and I trade some token of
my fruits of labor for that good. With taxation, the government
chooses what they I will buy, on my behalf, with my money, not me.

The fact that you are a spoiled little brat and cannot stop
whining long enough to understand that is nobody's fault except
yours.
.
You enjoy the protection of the police and fire departments,
benefits of a transportation infrastructure, etc. etc. You
cannot just say I don't need no stinkin roads.

What if I don't want their protection? I have no choice, they
are going to "help" me regardless of how I feel about it.

You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a piece
of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they won't use
force against you" and your response is "you don't want to
pay"...

Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They
should be responsible for their own damn bills!

Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health of
the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she spreads
tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.

May I have your permission to argue that I don't give a rat's ass
if that lazy hunk of garbage and his spawn starve to death? Why
should I have to pay for him and the fruit of his lazy loins to
eat, have shelter, medical coverage, ...?

Chuck Harris wrote in
:

Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
news
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:36:05 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in
What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting?
I

I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership
fee to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you
gotta pay the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens,
or drink in the clubhousew, get off the golf course...

The problem with your view, is it requires that private
ownership be null and void. I cannot own my part of the
green, the government does, and just lets me use it for a fee.

That's not a problem. You still own your golf clubs. You still
own your cleats. As a member you have a voice in the
administration of the club, through the members' meetings. Hell
you can run for club president.


That is nothing but a socialist/communist form of government.

Life sucks. Or maybe it's just you. There are some things in
thee world you cannot change, and some things that you should
not change, even though you could change them.


don't want anybody else's money any more than I want to hand
over my money to them, unless there's some exchange of value
where we both come out ahead.

But when it comes to taxes, I'm denied the right to make
that decision.

BullS#!T.

You have a vote.You have the right to get involved in
politics. Get off your lazy butt and work at steering
political decisions.

Again, as Rich said, I am denied the right to make that
decision for myself. I, as you said, have to lobby (beg) the
rest of the people, or the government to let me make the
decision. That is not free will, that is socialism.

You are not alone. You are part of a society. That's a fact of
life.

So go live away from everybody in Antartica, Renounce your
citizenship in the USA. You are not alone. You are part of a
society. That's a fact of life.

Or better yet, go jump off a cliff. Then you won't have to worry
about all the other people in the world who have the
intellectual capability to accept that no man is an island.

And you have also completely skirted the original point,
that taxation is theft; a sure symptom of apologism.

Your original point is wrong, for the same reason that you
asking a customer to pay you for goods or services you
provide is not theft.

No it isn't the same. I choose whether I wish to frequent the
store. I choose which goods I would like to own, and I trade
some token of my fruits of labor for that good. With
taxation, the government chooses what they I will buy, on my
behalf, with my money, not me.

You are perfectly free to pack up and move to somewhere with no
government, And if you choose not to frequent the one store in
town, you will do without.

The fact that you are a spoiled little brat and cannot stop
whining long enough to understand that is nobody's fault
except yours.
.
You enjoy the protection of the police and fire departments,
benefits of a transportation infrastructure, etc. etc. You
cannot just say I don't need no stinkin roads.

What if I don't want their protection? I have no choice, they
are going to "help" me regardless of how I feel about it.


Wether or not you want their protection, the majority want their
protection from you. And each one have as much right to that
protection as you have to not want it. But in a democracy, the
majority rules. Go curl up in a ball and die.


You say you can opt out of the club if you don't want a
piece of the green - I say, "try it, to find out if they
won't use force against you" and your response is "you don't
want to pay"...

Of COURSE I don't want to pay other people's bills! They
should be responsible for their own damn bills!

Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health
of the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she
spreads tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.

May I have your permission to argue that I don't give a rat's
ass if that lazy hunk of garbage and his spawn starve to
death? Why should I have to pay for him and the fruit of his
lazy loins to eat, have shelter, medical coverage, ...?

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's permission
for that. You don't have enough brains to argue anything
sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine just because
you don't know anything else.

Have a nice day.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bob Quintal wrote:

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's permission
for that. You don't have enough brains to argue anything
sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine just because
you don't know anything else.

If you are an example of what having enough brains is like, then
I am quite happy to not have enough brains.

Chuck Harris wrote in news:G-
:

Bob Quintal wrote:

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's permission
for that. You don't have enough brains to argue anything
sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine just because
you don't know anything else.

If you are an example of what having enough brains is like, then
I am quite happy to not have enough brains.


Ignorance is bliss...

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:10:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your heartburn of the day, Google on...

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

...Jim Thompson

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288392,00.html


John

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:47:31 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:10:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your heartburn of the day, Google on...

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

...Jim Thompson

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288392,00.html


John

There you go again, John, being politically incorrect ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:47:31 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:10:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your heartburn of the day, Google on...

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

...Jim Thompson

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288392,00.html


John

Not to mention:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/05/...ds-terrorists/

me wrote in
:

Chuck Harris wrote in news:G-
:

Bob Quintal wrote:

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's
permission for that. You don't have enough brains to argue
anything sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine
just because you don't know anything else.

If you are an example of what having enough brains is like,
then I am quite happy to not have enough brains.


Ignorance is bliss...

Thank you.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Chuck Harris wrote in news:G-
:

Bob Quintal wrote:

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's permission
for that. You don't have enough brains to argue anything
sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine just because
you don't know anything else.

If you are an example of what having enough brains is like, then
I am quite happy to not have enough brains.

You remind me of a friend's son, who when told he had
responsibilities to take out the garbage, said "I didn't ask to be
born."

Nobody asked to be born.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:25:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:47:31 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:10:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your heartburn of the day, Google on...

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

...Jim Thompson

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288392,00.html


John

There you go again, John, being politically incorrect ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Both the Clintons are frightening, and dangerous, in their absolute
amorality.

John

Bob Quintal wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote
in :

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

Ain't it just wonderful how the right wing neo-contservative
bloggers machine can turn the truth into an assault on democracy
and social justice.

Hillary is right.

No. She is a blazing idiot to have said it that way. Talking to her
ultra-liberal core or not, it was the wrong thing to say. It can and often
does offend the independents, who, in the end, usually decide the
elections.
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.Â*Â*
--Schiller

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:29:34 +0000, Bob Quintal wrote:
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote in

What is this "access to the green" stuff you keep chanting? I

I stated that taxation is not theft. It's like a membership fee
to a golf club. If you want to putt on the green you gotta pay
the fee. If you don't want to putt on the greens, or drink in
the clubhousew, get off the golf course...

Yes, precisely. But I'm not allowed to do that - if I choose not to
pay those fees I never use, they will come and take my money by force.

This is theft, plain and simple.

If you can't see that, then you need medical attention.

Thanks,
Rich

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:10:37 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote:
Bob Quintal wrote:

Taxes are not to pay other people's bills. they're to pay for
things that everyboddy uses, like roads, and schools, and
hospitals.and fire departments. You may argue that the health of
the street sweeper is of no concern to you, but if she spreads
tuberculosis to your neighborhood, it damn well is.

May I have your permission to argue that I don't give a rat's ass
if that lazy hunk of garbage and his spawn starve to death? Why
should I have to pay for him and the fruit of his lazy loins to
eat, have shelter, medical coverage, ...?

If you're talking about the guy who sweeps your streets once a week,
in that case the neighborhood could get together and ask some street-
sweepers for bids, and if a majority vote for it, then each person
can be assessed whatever the consensus is, and pay the damn street
sweeper. Now, _that's_ the kind of tax I could live with - the street
sweeper's bill was $500.00 to do one street, and so each of 10 houses
pays $50.00 and that's it. Who in hell needs some Washington Bureaucrat
to manage that?

The only thing government is supposed to be for is a meeting place where
larger groups can get together and resolve larger things, like a street
sweeper who does a whole district or city might be cheaper per house
than doing one street at a time piecemeal.

But that arose from the governed, it wasn't imposed from top-down, which
is what you seem to be advocating.

I've seen good government in action, and it was awesome. My folks took me
to a school board meeting when I was in 5th or 6th grade, and I watched
them debate a bond issue for "brick-and-mortar building money" for the
schools, and it was put to a vote, and won by a landslide, because the
people knew they were spending their money on their kids' education. AND
IT WAS ENTIRELY LOCAL! There weren't even any people from the county there,
let alone the state or federal governments!

That government is best which governs least.

Thanks,
Rich

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:47:27 -0500, me wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote in news:G-
Bob Quintal wrote:

You can argue all you want. You don't need anybody's permission
for that. You don't have enough brains to argue anything
sensical. You just bitch, bitch, bitch. You whine just because
you don't know anything else.

If you are an example of what having enough brains is like, then
I am quite happy to not have enough brains.

Ignorance is bliss...


http://www.comics.com/creators/wizar...-20070706.html

Cheers!
Rich

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:35:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:25:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:47:31 -0700, John Larkin
On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:10:36 -0700, Jim Thompson

For your heartburn of the day, Google on...

Hillary "on behalf of the common good"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288392,00.html

There you go again, John, being politically incorrect ;-)

Both the Clintons are frightening, and dangerous, in their absolute
amorality.

The neocons, like Cheney, Bush, et al, are even more frightening and
dangerous, since they're the ones with their finger on the button, and
they're demonstrably quite insane.

Thanks,
Rich

Bob Quintal wrote:

John Fields wrote in
:

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:



What's with the Canadian $ being on par with the US$ these
days. That's making my vacation more expensive!. Lousy US
currency!

It's gonna get a lot worse unless you stop burning it.

---
Agreed, and...

I work from home, as I'm sure a lot of the rest of us do, so
my use of petrochemicals to get me from place to place has
been largely eliminated since I can get from place to place
online for a lot less than 16 miles per gallon.


Good for you, I try to use public transport when I'm in town.
but I wasn't only alluding to oil prices. The deficit the US is
running up is staggering.


That reminds me, for all the screaming that Republicans did to get a
balanced budget during Clinton's terms; they were sure quick to do deficit
spending once they got in office.
--
JosephKK
Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.Â*Â*
--Schiller

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:33:37 GMT, joseph2k
wrote:

Bob Quintal wrote:

John Fields wrote in
:

On 04 Jul 2007 21:02:38 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:



What's with the Canadian $ being on par with the US$ these
days. That's making my vacation more expensive!. Lousy US
currency!

It's gonna get a lot worse unless you stop burning it.

---
Agreed, and...

I work from home, as I'm sure a lot of the rest of us do, so
my use of petrochemicals to get me from place to place has
been largely eliminated since I can get from place to place
online for a lot less than 16 miles per gallon.


Good for you, I try to use public transport when I'm in town.
but I wasn't only alluding to oil prices. The deficit the US is
running up is staggering.


That reminds me, for all the screaming that Republicans did to get a
balanced budget during Clinton's terms; they were sure quick to do deficit
spending once they got in office.

What business is it of yours?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave