[Dave]

If various different government departments have been given the right to
enter your home, just where does this put your basic European rights to
privacy?

Dave

[jim]

On 15 Jan, 23:18, Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right to
enter your home, just where does this put your basic European rights to
privacy?

Dave

Well, there's questions...and there's stupid questions....

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right
to enter your home, just where does this put your basic European
rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws spouting from
both this country and the EEC there is no such thing as privacy now - George
Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright cold day in April, and the
clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now intercepted
(and can be kept for up to 2 years), and the various bits of stored
information can be accessed by the police etc along with various town hall
mandarins - and even the ambulance service using RIPA and a few other bits
of legislation.

As for access to your home - this generally needs a warrant (usually fairly
easy to get from an obliging magistrate).

You can be stopped in the street, searched and questioned under
anti-terrorism laws.

Your are photographed in almost every city, town and village in the land at
some point.

Your are followed on all the major road routes by ANPR cameras.

The list is endless - and privacy non-existent!


BTW, how the hell is this a d-i-y question????


Unbeliever

[The Medway Handyman]

Unbeliever wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right
to enter your home, just where does this put your basic European
rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws
spouting from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing as
privacy now - George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright
cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted (and can be kept for up to 2 years), and the various bits
of stored information can be accessed by the police etc along with
various town hall mandarins - and even the ambulance service using
RIPA and a few other bits of legislation.

The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or the
location of a mobile in seconds. They only do so because of the idiot
Govmint targets that insist on an 8 minute response on Cat A calls,
regardless of clinical outcome. The clock starts from the time the call is
recieved, not the time the controller actually gets confirmation of the
address and the exact nature of the problem from an often panicking &
agitated caller. In other words its retrospective.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[nightjar]

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
....
The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or the
location of a mobile in seconds....

Not around here. I made a call, just before Christmas, when I found someone
collapsed in the street and it took ages before they worked out where I was,
even with me giving road names.

Colin Bignell

[tim.....]

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
Unbeliever wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right
to enter your home, just where does this put your basic European
rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws
spouting from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing as
privacy now - George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright
cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted (and can be kept for up to 2 years), and the various bits
of stored information can be accessed by the police etc along with
various town hall mandarins - and even the ambulance service using
RIPA and a few other bits of legislation.

The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or the
location of a mobile in seconds. They only do so because of the idiot
Govmint targets that insist on an 8 minute response on Cat A calls,
regardless of clinical outcome.

I don't get your problem with this (assuming it wasn't ironic which the bit
I snipped suggested not)

As you can't know the clinical outcome until the person has reached the
hospital (or otherwise received treatment), how can you set a target for
attending to that person, that takes the outcome into account?

tim

[TheOldFellow]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:56:11 -0000
"Unbeliever" wrote:


BTW, how the hell is this a d-i-y question????

Here's some DIY cryptography to help you find a way to hide what you
say from the 'Govmint of GoreDoom'.

In this case it's just a signature, but if you had a public key I could
have encrypted the whole thing.

R.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAklwK3YACgkQqvdae9cLq0AahgCfYVzGbwK+7g jLO89VuhyqGTZE
iX0An3llK1d6cH+VxTM2AtEbPoI1h89c
=8hjS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Man at B&Q]

On Jan 15, 11:56*pm, "Unbeliever" wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right
to enter your home, just where does this put your basic European
rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? *Under the various regulations and laws spouting from
both this country and the EEC there is no such thing as privacy now - George
Orwell's 1984 has arrived! *(It was a bright cold day in April, and the
clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now intercepted

Don't be stupid.

MBQ

[The Medway Handyman]

tim..... wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
Unbeliever wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the
right to enter your home, just where does this put your basic
European rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws
spouting from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing
as privacy now - George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright
cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted (and can be kept for up to 2 years), and the various
bits of stored information can be accessed by the police etc along
with various town hall mandarins - and even the ambulance service
using RIPA and a few other bits of legislation.

The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or
the location of a mobile in seconds. They only do so because of the
idiot Govmint targets that insist on an 8 minute response on Cat A
calls, regardless of clinical outcome.

I don't get your problem with this (assuming it wasn't ironic which
the bit I snipped suggested not)

It was ironic I suppose because the crews main motivation is the clinical
outcome.

As you can't know the clinical outcome until the person has reached
the hospital (or otherwise received treatment), how can you set a
target for attending to that person, that takes the outcome into
account?

If they can restart someones heart, get them breathing or stem excessive
blood loss it effects the clinical outcome. If they can get a patient to
A&E alive its obviously much better.

Current 'solution' to beating the time target is to use FRU's (fast response
cars). This could well mean a young female paramedic, attending a violent
situation, in a rough area, in the early hours - alone.

90% of the time an ambulance has to attend as well, because the FRU isn't as
well equipped & can't transport people to A&E.

This ties up 2 vehicles & 3 crew members on 1 incident + 2 journeys. They
would rather use the resources to put more fully crewed ambulances on the
road, which they reckon would improve clinical outcome, but that wouldn't
meet the immediate 'target'.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[Tim S]

Man at B&Q coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Jan 15, 11:56*pm, "Unbeliever" wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the right
to enter your home, just where does this put your basic European
rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? *Under the various regulations and laws spouting
from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing as privacy now
- George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! *(It was a bright cold day in April,
and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted

Don't be stupid.

MBQ

OK, he overstated it perhaps...

But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to, from[1]
and dates, but not content. I run my own mail server so the government can
stuff that up their ****.

[1] not sure if "from and to" mean all headers or just the end point IP
addresses.

Telephone calls are already logged in a similar fashion for billing, from,
to and date/time.

If MI5 wants any of that data, or they want to wiretap your internet feed,
I'm sure not much will stop them anyway ("Spooks" techno-********
notwithstanding)

Personally, I'm less worried about MI5 - I presume they're too busy trailing
actual nutters to have the resources to snoop everyone. It's grubby
unrelated council and government depts having too easy access to such data
that bothers me ( RIPA used to catch dog-fouling etc -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7369543.stm )

Time to go IPv6 - doubt if they idiots can cope with that...

Cheers

Tim

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On 16 Jan 2009 08:52:30 GMT, Huge wrote:

The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or the
location of a mobile in seconds....

Not around here.

Nor here.

Or here, I don't think we have even working day ambulance/paramedic cover
now that isn't 1hr away. They'll miss the target for calls out here but
so what? There is an average of 1.5/week it won't affect the overall
score one iota. The fcat it could well cost some one their life doesn't
seem to figure in the Ambulance Services view.

When someone dumped and set fire to a stolen car in a nearby layby, the
fire brigade worryingly couldn't find us.

I have told the Ambulance Service our address and phone number so, in
theory, if we call them our address and location pops up on screen. Don't
know if that information is passed to the crew though, or if control has a
GPS feed of ambulance locations so could "talk them in", always assuming
the ambulance radio works out here.

The Fire Service I haven't told but then unless the pump is out on another
shout several of the fire officers will have driven past to get to the
pump to come back to us. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jan 15, 11:56 pm, "Unbeliever" wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the
right to enter your home, just where does this put your basic
European rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws
spouting from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing
as privacy now - George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright
cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted

Don't be stupid.

MBQ

MBQ,

I really would suggest that you look up the information on a little program
called Echelon. This was developed in the USA and is now used widely in
Europe and this country to eavesdrop on *all* methods of electronic and tele
communications, which are then stored for up to a year at the moment
(generally not the text of the message, but certainly any information that
can trace that call right back to you and any assignation that you want
hidden from the 'other half') - also check out Cheltenham for more info on
surveillance.

If you disbelieve that is not happening, then I would suggest that you
simply look through the parliamentary legislation for the last few years
(particularly since 9/11) and have a look for your self.

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation that
will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already have.

As a matter of interest, I believe that legislation may well be in the
pipeline to follow that of the USA whereby *all* mobile phones must be
fitted with a tracking device to enable your location to be pinpointed
within a few metres (this is already in operation here but on a voluntary
basis at the moment).

I really would suggest that the "stupid" one is yourself, if you genuinely
think that what I have said is untrue - hell, even the government's own
Information Minister has stated that we are walking blindfold into a
surveillance society.

Wake up and get your head from up your bum and have a look at the real
world.



Disbeliever

Who is now very likely to end up in Orwell's room 101.

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

TheOldFellow wrote:

Just replying so that the group can see.

Clever, but if I was undergoing any nefarious activity, I would certainly
not transmit such information electronically - encrypted or not.

Governments are now spending millions on technology to try and crack the
codes - and besides, I can see a day coming whereby it will against the law
to use such methods of data transmission, and ISPs will be told to either
'block' such messages or redirect them to decoding stations.

This thought is from something that I read a few days ago where terrorists
are now using paedophile websites to encrypt and send messages to each other
and I can't see that door being left open for too long.

Fantasy?

But 40 years ago, who would have believed that you could be tracked across
the country simply by withdrawing cash from a machine or using a card to buy
things in a shop?

Nice to stir things up once in a while eh? *eg*

Unbeliever

[John Rumm]

Unbeliever wrote:

Clever, but if I was undergoing any nefarious activity, I would certainly
not transmit such information electronically - encrypted or not.

Governments are now spending millions on technology to try and crack the
codes - and besides, I can see a day coming whereby it will against the law
to use such methods of data transmission, and ISPs will be told to either
'block' such messages or redirect them to decoding stations.

At which point people will just move to steganographic techniques to
hide the encrypted information.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[John Rumm]

Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation that
will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already have.

Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

As a matter of interest, I believe that legislation may well be in the
pipeline to follow that of the USA whereby *all* mobile phones must be
fitted with a tracking device to enable your location to be pinpointed
within a few metres (this is already in operation here but on a voluntary
basis at the moment).

There is already loads of stuff that can be done with mobile comms that
often seems to get ignored as well. e.g. low level manipulation of the
GSM command stack can remotely enable the mic and transmit capabilities
of a phone - turning it into a eavesdropping device. (moral of that
story, if you don't want to be overheard, take the battery out!)

I really would suggest that the "stupid" one is yourself, if you genuinely
think that what I have said is untrue - hell, even the government's own
Information Minister has stated that we are walking blindfold into a
surveillance society.

Sadly very true. Legislation like the RIP act combines that with a
reversal of the burden of proof as well - which is a major change to the
premise of our legal and justice system.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

John Rumm wrote:
Unbeliever wrote:

Clever, but if I was undergoing any nefarious activity, I would
certainly not transmit such information electronically - encrypted
or not. Governments are now spending millions on technology to try and
crack
the codes - and besides, I can see a day coming whereby it will
against the law to use such methods of data transmission, and ISPs
will be told to either 'block' such messages or redirect them to
decoding stations.

At which point people will just move to steganographic techniques to
hide the encrypted information.



/================================================== ===============\
Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
-----------------------------------------------------------------|
John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

And governments will simply move to developing programs that will reveal
such hidden information John - remember, we the public are paying the bills
for them to spend vast amounts to enable then to spy on us.

They will have the technology to search every page that we send
electronically - and that system (under the guise of targeted advertising)
is being introduced by BT and possibly Virgin Media (and one other ISP which
escapes me at the moment) - and it's called Webwise oo Phorm


Unbeliever

[John Rumm]

Unbeliever wrote:

the codes - and besides, I can see a day coming whereby it will
against the law to use such methods of data transmission, and ISPs
will be told to either 'block' such messages or redirect them to
decoding stations.

At which point people will just move to steganographic techniques to
hide the encrypted information.

And governments will simply move to developing programs that will reveal
such hidden information John - remember, we the public are paying the bills
for them to spend vast amounts to enable then to spy on us.

Oh indeed. These things are always an "arms race".

One thing that works against blanket electronic surveillance (especially
if you are attempting to find potentially hidden encrypted
information[1]) is the shear volume of it carried these days, and the
need for human intervention to actually establish if the content is
sinister. A typical daily feed through a news server must now represent
more than a lifetimes reading for a significant number of people.

(IIRC they did attempt to validate a claim that stega technology was
already being extensively used in images on web sites some time back. I
thing the results were either non conclusive or not found to support the
suggestion).

Having said that, any money spent on "security" that can be circumvented
by a terrorist simply changing their behaviour is largely wasted anyway.

[1] And if you are sending information like that, it makes sense to send
several orders of magnitude of junk information as a diversionary
mechanism to bog down the decoding system (while possibly using an
alternative back channel for doing the real comms - carrier pigeon
anyone ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Steve Firth]

Huge wrote:

And likely the large interchanges already have Echelon or Carnivore boxes
in them already.

You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

[Steve Firth]

John Rumm wrote:

Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation that
will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already have.

Oh FFS. What sort of dumb-ass dimple brain would think that the threat
comes from the EU, or even that the EU is "the EEC"?

Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

Blame Blair, Anthony Charles Lynton; Brown, James Gordon; Smith,
Jacqueline Jill; Straw, John Whitaker and other assorted micro-nazis for
the current state of the country as regards the legal powers given to
the police and others to pry into your life. It's got ****-all to do
with the EU.

[Unbeliever[_2_]]

Steve Firth wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation
that will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you
already have.

Oh FFS. What sort of dumb-ass dimple brain would think that the threat
comes from the EU, or even that the EU is "the EEC"?

Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

Blame Blair, Anthony Charles Lynton; Brown, James Gordon; Smith,
Jacqueline Jill; Straw, John Whitaker and other assorted micro-nazis
for the current state of the country as regards the legal powers
given to the police and others to pry into your life. It's got
****-all to do with the EU.

Rather typical of you Mr Firth I'm afraid. LOL

[tim.....]

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation that
will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already have.

Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

As a matter of interest, I believe that legislation may well be in the
pipeline to follow that of the USA whereby *all* mobile phones must be
fitted with a tracking device to enable your location to be pinpointed
within a few metres (this is already in operation here but on a voluntary
basis at the moment).

There is already loads of stuff that can be done with mobile comms that
often seems to get ignored as well. e.g. low level manipulation of the GSM
command stack can remotely enable the mic and transmit capabilities of a
phone - turning it into a eavesdropping device. (moral of that story, if
you don't want to be overheard, take the battery out!)

You wouldn't need to.

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that owner
might notice.

It might be possible but it doesn't happen

[Andy Champ]

Huge wrote:
But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to,
from[1] and dates, but not content.

They already do. Anybody who runs a mail server will have logs showing
what was sent where. Here's mine;

What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I forget
how long for.

Andy

[Frank Erskine]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:29:04 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:

Huge wrote:
But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to,
from[1] and dates, but not content.

They already do. Anybody who runs a mail server will have logs showing
what was sent where. Here's mine;

What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I forget
how long for.

Until they lose it somewhere?

--
Frank Erskine

[Andy Champ]

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:29:04 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:
What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I forget
how long for.

Until they lose it somewhere?

Well IMHO the guv'mint have already lost it... the plot that is...

Andy

[John Rumm]

tim..... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation that
will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already have.
Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

As a matter of interest, I believe that legislation may well be in the
pipeline to follow that of the USA whereby *all* mobile phones must be
fitted with a tracking device to enable your location to be pinpointed
within a few metres (this is already in operation here but on a voluntary
basis at the moment).
There is already loads of stuff that can be done with mobile comms that
often seems to get ignored as well. e.g. low level manipulation of the GSM
command stack can remotely enable the mic and transmit capabilities of a
phone - turning it into a eavesdropping device. (moral of that story, if
you don't want to be overheard, take the battery out!)

You wouldn't need to.

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that owner
might notice.

Yes you are right that prolonged transmission would drain the battery.
However if I understand correctly, that is not the usual MO in that it
is not typically used for long term monitoring. It is at its most useful
used alongside covert surveillance, and can be enabled when
"interesting" things look like they might be about to happen. (I presume
that the devices behave as a base station, and hence local proximity
would cause the phone to modulate its RF output power right down as well)

It might be possible but it doesn't happen

I worked with a bloke who went off to be lead software engineer for a
firm that makes this kit. As far as I am aware they are still going.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[tim.....]

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Unbeliever wrote:

This is set to get worse, as the EEC is now starting to jump on the
bandwagon and starting to introduce even more draconian legislation
that will erode any vestiges of 'privacy' that you think you already
have.
Indeed, much of the privacy we believe we have now is illusory.

As a matter of interest, I believe that legislation may well be in the
pipeline to follow that of the USA whereby *all* mobile phones must be
fitted with a tracking device to enable your location to be pinpointed
within a few metres (this is already in operation here but on a
voluntary basis at the moment).
There is already loads of stuff that can be done with mobile comms that
often seems to get ignored as well. e.g. low level manipulation of the
GSM command stack can remotely enable the mic and transmit capabilities
of a phone - turning it into a eavesdropping device. (moral of that
story, if you don't want to be overheard, take the battery out!)

You wouldn't need to.

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that
owner might notice.

Did I really make all those typos?

tim

[The Medway Handyman]

Dave Liquorice wrote:


I have told the Ambulance Service our address and phone number so, in
theory, if we call them our address and location pops up on screen.
Don't know if that information is passed to the crew though, or if
control has a GPS feed of ambulance locations so could "talk them
in", always assuming the ambulance radio works out here.


Should have qualified that by saying 'London Ambulance'. The ambulance/FRU
has a screen with details of the call & sat nav. The controller (who stays
on the phone with Cat A calls) can see where the ambulance is and its
expected arrival time.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[John Rumm]

tim..... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that
owner might notice.

Did I really make all those typos?

One of the advantages of dyslexia is that I read it and did not notice
until you pointed it out ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[The Natural Philosopher]

Andy Champ wrote:
Huge wrote:
But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to,
from[1] and dates, but not content.

They already do. Anybody who runs a mail server will have logs showing
what was sent where. Here's mine;

What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I forget
how long for.


To be honest even when I was running an ISP, a few years ago, we did
keep them for about a year.

Simply because customers would phone up and want to know if e-mail XXX
was actually sent to firm YYY who denied all knowledge of it etc etc.

Now we wouldn't normally have released them to anyone without the
senders permission, but if a government agency HAD asked with a court
order, we would have.


Andy

[The Natural Philosopher]

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:29:04 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:

Huge wrote:
But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to,
from[1] and dates, but not content.
They already do. Anybody who runs a mail server will have logs showing
what was sent where. Here's mine;

What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I forget
how long for.

Until they lose it somewhere?

Not really, no.

Most log files are compressed and archived on the mail relay. And would
normally be deleted after some preset time interval.

Bcesue of what a mail relay is, its generally a machine with a fair
amount of disk space, and RAIDED to the hilt, so its pretty secure
against a disk crash.

Any competent ISP would be able to archive onto a second machine.
There would be no resin to go beyond that though. Tapes, DVDS and memory
sticks and portable media or laptops are simply not what you do with
trashy logs. You use those to inspect data you want to analyse
elsewhere. No one really wants to analyse logs.. unless you have an
urgent problem like a mail storm or some sort of denial of service attack.

[John Rumm]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Frank Erskine wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:29:04 +0000, Andy Champ
wrote:

Huge wrote:
But, from March, ISPs will need to keep a log of your emails (to,
from[1] and dates, but not content.
They already do. Anybody who runs a mail server will have logs
showing what was sent where. Here's mine;

What's new is the ISPs will have to keep it for the guv'mint. I
forget how long for.

Until they lose it somewhere?

Not really, no.

Most log files are compressed and archived on the mail relay. And would
normally be deleted after some preset time interval.

Bcesue of what a mail relay is, its generally a machine with a fair
amount of disk space, and RAIDED to the hilt, so its pretty secure
against a disk crash.

Any competent ISP would be able to archive onto a second machine.
There would be no resin to go beyond that though. Tapes, DVDS and memory
sticks and portable media or laptops are simply not what you do with
trashy logs. You use those to inspect data you want to analyse
elsewhere. No one really wants to analyse logs.. unless you have an
urgent problem like a mail storm or some sort of denial of service attack.

I think the suggestion was that its the government that will loose it,
not the ISP (based on previous performance of Gov IT)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

[Tim S]

Huge coughed up some electrons that declared:


We've done that now. We had several long and worrying conversations with
the Fire and Ambulance services. We've lived here 18 years, and they
haven't known where it is all that time? Good thing we never needed them.
I've also been in correspondence with the council for the last 3 years
over putting a road name sign at the junction with the main road. It's
getting to the point where I'm tempted to put one up myself. Anyone know
where you can get standard road name signs made up?

Similar problems with councils round here...

Reckon a signwriters would do it. But a carefully hand painted plank of wood
is still quite readable.

Cheers

Tim

[nightjar]

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:32:40 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 16 Jan 2009 08:52:30 GMT, Huge wrote:

The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or
the location of a mobile in seconds....

Not around here.

Nor here.

Or here, I don't think we have even working day ambulance/paramedic
cover now that isn't 1hr away. They'll miss the target for calls out
here but so what? There is an average of 1.5/week it won't affect the
overall score one iota. The fcat it could well cost some one their life
doesn't seem to figure in the Ambulance Services view.

When someone dumped and set fire to a stolen car in a nearby layby, the
fire brigade worryingly couldn't find us.

I have told the Ambulance Service our address and phone number so, in
theory, if we call them our address and location pops up on screen.

We've done that now. We had several long and worrying conversations with
the Fire and Ambulance services. We've lived here 18 years, and they
haven't known where it is all that time? Good thing we never needed them.
I've also been in correspondence with the council for the last 3 years
over putting a road name sign at the junction with the main road. It's
getting to the point where I'm tempted to put one up myself. Anyone know
where you can get standard road name signs made up?

Any signwriting company, although, from experience, some are better than
others. The one we have on our industrial estate is very unimaginative and
seems unable to produce anything beyond a few simple styles The ones I had
signwrite our van are excellent and can make anything you can produce as a
computer image file. Plain white background will be cheaper than
retroflective, but the latter will be more visible at night.

Colin Bignell

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "tim....."
saying something like:

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that
owner might notice.

Did I really make all those typos?

No.
It was the intercept device having a moment.

[tim.....]

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "tim....."
saying something like:

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think that
owner might notice.

Did I really make all those typos?

No.
It was the intercept device having a moment.

Phew!

tim

[geoff]

In message , John Rumm
writes
tim..... wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message

Doing what you clime would flatted in in hours anyway so I think
that owner might notice.
Did I really make all those typos?

One of the advantages of dyslexia is that I read it and did not notice
until you pointed it out ;-)


reading the contributions from drivel and NP, most of us are well immune
to typos by now

--
geoff

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:55:06 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Reckon a signwriters would do it. But a carefully hand painted plank of
wood is still quite readable.

Or if the road name isn't to long made up as a number plate or two. Nicely
reflective and cheap. Several of those around here but not for road names
as the roads don't have names.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[PeterC]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:57:58 +0000 (GMT), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:55:06 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Reckon a signwriters would do it. But a carefully hand painted plank of
wood is still quite readable.

Or if the road name isn't to long made up as a number plate or two. Nicely
reflective and cheap. Several of those around here but not for road names
as the roads don't have names.

Site it carefully - if some one trips over it or knocks against it you
could be sued. ISTR an unofficial sign being hit by a vehicle that was
swerving off the road and the 'driver' trying it on!

Apart from the obvious authorities, only AA, RAC and CTC have a 'right' to
erect road signs (and I suspect that doesn't include 'public'-type ones).
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

[Jason]

Huge wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:56:15 +0000, "nightjar" cpb@ wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om... ...
The ambulance service can track the address of a landline phone or the
location of a mobile in seconds....
Not around here.

Nor here. When someone dumped and set fire to a stolen car in a nearby
layby, the fire brigade worryingly couldn't find us.

That, I believe, is all down to centralisation. Once upon a time, emergency
calls were handled by operators in the local exchange, but now they could be 200
miles away and have absolutely no local knowledge that they can use to pass on
to the service on the street.

I've had the same experience in the same vein when calling for an ambulance.

-- JJ

[Man at B&Q]

On Jan 16, 4:12 pm, "Unbeliever" wrote:
Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jan 15, 11:56 pm, "Unbeliever" wrote:
Dave wrote:
If various different government departments have been given the
right to enter your home, just where does this put your basic
European rights to privacy?

Dave

Privacy, what privacy? Under the various regulations and laws
spouting from both this country and the EEC there is no such thing
as privacy now - George Orwell's 1984 has arrived! (It was a bright
cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.)

All private telephone calls, e-mails and internet traffic is now
intercepted

Don't be stupid.

MBQ

MBQ,

I really would suggest that you look up the information on a little program
called Echelon. This was developed in the USA and is now used widely in
Europe and this country to eavesdrop on *all* methods of electronic and tele
communications, which are then stored for up to a year at the moment
(generally not the text of the message, but certainly any information that
can trace that call right back to you and any assignation that you want
hidden from the 'other half')

There's a difference between logging the fact of a communication and
"intercepting" it.

MBQ