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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 30th 06, 10:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

Interesting mail/press item today which suggested that wholesale
changing to energy efficient lamps would save about the same/more as
all the windmills that we have (or could have?) Did they add in tidal,
too?

.... and their saving would be 24/7 not just when the wind blows.

Perhaps, it's not so sexy having to go to the shop and buy new lamps
:-)

Naffer

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  #2  
Old June 30th 06, 10:47 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

In message .com,
naffer writes
Interesting mail/press item today which suggested that wholesale
changing to energy efficient lamps would save about the same/more as
all the windmills that we have (or could have?) Did they add in tidal,
too?

... and their saving would be 24/7 not just when the wind blows.

Perhaps, it's not so sexy having to go to the shop and buy new lamps


er.. they are only going to *save* energy when you need them switched
on.

I suspect there is some doubtful thinking when a government minister
pontificates about how many power stations could be switched off if only
we would stop leaving electronic equipment on standby. I'll bet they
have forgotten that energy *wasted* is actually reducing space heating
requirements during the Winter.

regards

--
Tim Lamb
  #4  
Old July 1st 06, 12:27 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message .com,
naffer writes
Interesting mail/press item today which suggested that wholesale
changing to energy efficient lamps would save about the same/more as
all the windmills that we have (or could have?) Did they add in tidal,
too?

... and their saving would be 24/7 not just when the wind blows.

Perhaps, it's not so sexy having to go to the shop and buy new lamps


er.. they are only going to *save* energy when you need them switched
on.

I suspect there is some doubtful thinking when a government minister
pontificates about how many power stations could be switched off if
only we would stop leaving electronic equipment on standby. I'll bet
they have forgotten that energy *wasted* is actually reducing space
heating requirements during the Winter.

And then when someone suggests that shops shouldn't keep their lights on
all night, they get attacked as it "reduces their competitive edge"

Don't get me started on office blocks


--
geoff
  #5  
Old July 1st 06, 11:40 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:47:15 +0100 Tim Lamb wrote :
I suspect there is some doubtful thinking when a government minister
pontificates about how many power stations could be switched off if only
we would stop leaving electronic equipment on standby. I'll bet they
have forgotten that energy *wasted* is actually reducing space heating
requirements during the Winter.


It is, but for a lot of the time you don't have the heating on, and,
secondly, heat from electricity is reckoned to create twice the CO2 per kWh
that mains gas does.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

  #6  
Old July 1st 06, 12:17 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:27:30 GMT, raden wrote:



And then when someone suggests that shops shouldn't keep their lights on
all night, they get attacked as it "reduces their competitive edge"

Don't get me started on office blocks


Is that a challenge ;-)

I noticed nowadays some have the lights on 24/24 7/7,
before the building is even finished and completely unfurnished.

You can see straight through the empty floors. :-(

DG

  #7  
Old July 1st 06, 02:12 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:47:15 +0100 Tim Lamb wrote :
I suspect there is some doubtful thinking when a government minister
pontificates about how many power stations could be switched off if only
we would stop leaving electronic equipment on standby. I'll bet they
have forgotten that energy *wasted* is actually reducing space heating
requirements during the Winter.


It is, but for a lot of the time you don't have the heating on, and,
secondly, heat from electricity is reckoned to create twice the CO2 per kWh
that mains gas does.

I had to smile at the "scientific" figures given on energy savings by a
well know presenter at the end of his recent series. It was like:
If you do this you will save 30%, if you do that you will save 20% and
so on. What was obvious was that each % given was the saving on your
original energy consumption, as soon as you moved to 2nd option the
saving would be lower as you would no longer be using as much energy.
Of course they also took off the biggest first. You will note that when
retailers give 2 discounts, say 20% then 10% the 10% is off the reduced
not original price.
  #8  
Old July 1st 06, 03:25 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

Derek ^ wrote:

and forgot to factor in the energy used in going round switching stuff
on and off all the time.


Or the diminution of the service life of the tubes, along with the
consequent below -par performance until they are replaced.


Surely energy-saving bulbs would last longer?

I must say, I was surprised to read somewhere
that 20% of electricity output is used in lighting.
That certainly suggests to me that wider use of energy-saving bulbs
would have a significant effect.

I would have thought governments should subsidize these bulbs,
if they are seriously interested in keeping their Kyoto promises.

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
  #9  
Old July 2nd 06, 12:58 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

Timothy Murphy wrote:
Derek ^ wrote:

and forgot to factor in the energy used in going round switching stuff
on and off all the time.

Or the diminution of the service life of the tubes, along with the
consequent below -par performance until they are replaced.


Surely energy-saving bulbs would last longer?

I must say, I was surprised to read somewhere
that 20% of electricity output is used in lighting.
That certainly suggests to me that wider use of energy-saving bulbs
would have a significant effect.


As would simply eliminating 90% of street lights and all the other light
pollution.


I would have thought governments should subsidize these bulbs,
if they are seriously interested in keeping their Kyoto promises.

  #10  
Old July 2nd 06, 10:48 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Windmill nonsense.. Tilting at Wind mills

In message , Tony Bryer
writes
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 22:47:15 +0100 Tim Lamb wrote :
I suspect there is some doubtful thinking when a government minister
pontificates about how many power stations could be switched off if only
we would stop leaving electronic equipment on standby. I'll bet they
have forgotten that energy *wasted* is actually reducing space heating
requirements during the Winter.


It is, but for a lot of the time you don't have the heating on, and,
secondly, heat from electricity is reckoned to create twice the CO2 per kWh
that mains gas does.


Right. You are tightening up on factual precision but failing to make
good sound bites for politicians. You could include *no standby waste*
when kit is in use.

If they were serious surely legislation could prohibit the sale of
equipment fitted with standby mode. Otherwise it is waste verbiage.

regards
--
Tim Lamb
 




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