Boyz,

So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the
round knockouts in a metal box?

I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to
the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)?

Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
Boyz,

So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the
round knockouts in a metal box?

I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to
the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)?

Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through?

All the best ..

T i m

Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think?
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:02 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Boyz,

So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the
round knockouts in a metal box?

I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to
the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)?

Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through?

All the best ..

T i m

Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think?

I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place?

When I started work (BT, electronics Eng) I was taught the idea of
'flexibility points', a long run being broken down into accessable
replaceble sections with the joints easily accessable.

A similar thing we do with bigger trunking with access covers and
plumbing with rodding eyes etc.

I suppose I could do what many folk seem to do (or have done) is
scrape a line down the wall, hold the cables back and skim / paper
over the top but would that be considered 'the right way to do it' ?

I have come across a pair of such wires as I removed the paper (some
of the very thin skim was 'blowing off' in places) and I really don't
like seeing it like that?

Maybe it's because I have come from more precise trades (electronics ,
microfilm / fiche support, PC's, model engineering etc) that some of
the current building solutions seem so basic (ok, often no less
functional) to me?

And I have never had to make a living from the other trades of course
(which is probably a bigger component to why works seem so slapdah
these days (see other threads here)).

Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon
units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of
nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:02 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Boyz,

So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with
the round knockouts in a metal box?

I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube
to the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)?

Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through?

All the best ..

T i m

Bit OTT if its being plastered over don't you think?

I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place?

When I started work (BT, electronics Eng) I was taught the idea of
'flexibility points', a long run being broken down into accessable
replaceble sections with the joints easily accessable.

A similar thing we do with bigger trunking with access covers and
plumbing with rodding eyes etc.

I suppose I could do what many folk seem to do (or have done) is
scrape a line down the wall, hold the cables back and skim / paper
over the top but would that be considered 'the right way to do it' ?

I have come across a pair of such wires as I removed the paper (some
of the very thin skim was 'blowing off' in places) and I really don't
like seeing it like that?

Maybe it's because I have come from more precise trades (electronics ,
microfilm / fiche support, PC's, model engineering etc) that some of
the current building solutions seem so basic (ok, often no less
functional) to me?

And I have never had to make a living from the other trades of course
(which is probably a bigger component to why works seem so slapdah
these days (see other threads here)).

Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon
units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of
nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh

All the best ..

T i m

Or maybe this type of conduit was basically for external situations whereby
it can repositiond easily in the future if needed ie most suited for
factory and shops.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:06:13 +0000, T i m wrote:

Boyz,

So would round plastic conduit be a more logical mating pair with the
round knockouts in a metal box?

I believe you can also get 'fittings' to mechanicaly join the tube to
the box (threaded flange / tube socket etc)?

Would I still get 2 x 2.5mm T&E through?

All the best ..

T i m

Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Dave

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:09:49 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote:

..

I suppose it depends on why we use trunking in the first place?
..

Or maybe this type of conduit was basically for external situations whereby
it can repositiond easily in the future if needed ie most suited for
factory and shops.

As well, yes ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:
..

Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you
want to etc)?

All the best

T i m

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:
.

Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you
want to etc)?

All the best

T i m

Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the
top.

Dave

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:24:18 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:
.

Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you
want to etc)?

All the best

T i m

Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the
top.

Ah ok ..

Is it that sorta flattened out bridge shape and so wouldn't you have
to cut a 'wider' slot for it than say with oval (or is it just an arch
with no side flanges if you know what I mean)?

All the best ..

T i m

Owain wrote:
T i m wrote:

Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon
units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of
nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh


I suppose the installation manual wasn't much use if it had been out in
the wet, but a spirit level should have survived.

It's always nice to get surprise free gifts like that.

Owain


Screwfix seem to feel the need to give me a small red spirit level as a
"Welcome Gift" everytime I order from them.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:52:47 +0000, Owain
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Like I go on the flat (wet) roof to lave a peek at their new aircon
units and retrieve a (the install Co) 1m spirit level, a handfull of
nuts / bolts, an installlation manual .... sigh

I suppose the installation manual wasn't much use if it had been out in
the wet, but a spirit level should have survived.

Well to be fair it was in a 'flaped over' poly bag and taped to the
side of the unit by one corner. How long it would have stayed there is
another matter of course. The spirit level is fine and I'm keeping it
warm for them .. ;-)

It's always nice to get surprise free gifts like that.

It is indeed .. like the lucky sod who must have found my Leatherman
PST in the road after I'd used it to fit the spare clutch clutch cable
I carry for when they snap. I *could* have let the AA do it but it
only took me 10 mins and we were on our way .. one Leatherman lighter
of course ;-(

Luckily I listened to 'her' for a change and found a new replacement
on eBay for half what I paid for my old one ... took a while to break
it in though ... ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
Richard Conway wrote:
Screwfix seem to feel the need to give me a small red spirit level as a
"Welcome Gift" everytime I order from them.

So how do you manage to convince them that you deserve that! ;-)

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Dave Stanton wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:
Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you
want to etc)?

Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the
top.

And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap
getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be
_sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit.

Did anyone answer Tim's original question about how to terminate PVC
conduit to a metal box? You use a fitting called a "female adaptor"
like these:

http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/53577.jpg or
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._1/MT20FMA.JPG

The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if
necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm
male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and
screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The
bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E
cables will go through OK (just).

HTH
--
Andy

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:52:16 +0000,it is alleged that Andy Wade
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

Did anyone answer Tim's original question about how to terminate PVC
conduit to a metal box? You use a fitting called a "female adaptor"
like these:

http://www.toolstation.com/images/li...bbig/53577.jpg or
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P..._1/MT20FMA.JPG

The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if
necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm
male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and
screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The
bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E
cables will go through OK (just).

Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round
conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just
pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit'

--
You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.
- Indira Gandhi

Chip wrote:

Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round
conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just
pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit'

You could do it with an oval to round adaptor, a very short length of
round conduit and a female adaptor.

--
Andy

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:21:20 GMT, Chip
wrote:

The adaptor body push fits on the end of the conduit (& can be glued if
necessary) and leaves an end with an M20 female thread. Then a 20 mm
male bush (comes with the adaptor) is pushed through a box knock-out and
screwed into the female part (if you'll pardon the expression). The
bush does restrict the i/d of the conduit a bit, but 2 x 2.5 mm^2 T&E
cables will go through OK (just).

Sadly those are only available from TLC and the like for round
conduit. It does seem to me that such a device (maybe even just
pushfit) should exist for the oval 'conduit'

Hmmm .. now there's business oppertunity if ever I heard one! ;-)

16, 20, 25 to single, 32mm oval to twin box holes converter.

"Allows an easy transition between oval and round. no more stuck
wires, no need for loose grommets. Simply snaps into metal box and
oval pushes into convertor". ;-)

Give it five 5 years .. 2mil house in Barbados next to similar folk
who earnt their fortunes from curtian rings or fridge safety catches.
;-)

All the best ..

T i m

In message , Dave Stanton
writes
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:43:17 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:32:04 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:
.

Err why dont you just use the metal capping which is designed to do this
job instead of faffing around with other stuff.

Can you replace the cable from behind that though Dave (should you
want to etc)?
Yes as long as you dont clip to the wall and then put the capping over the
top.

Hmmmm, in my experience not so easily, as instead of straight run of
smooth conduit, you have got rough uneven wall behind. And TBh, I find
it easier to use the conduit than the capping, for one it needs fixing
less, but then my old house had very hard mortar in places.
--
Chris French

And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap
getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be
_sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit.

I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what
should be a simple job.

Dave

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:00:59 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:


And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap
getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be
_sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit.

I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what
should be a simple job.

Hi Dave .. and thanks for your concern. ;-)

I find most 'simple jobs' are those that have been the best thought
through or experienced before.

If I have had need to do something, the initial 'design' (in my head)
often starts complicated, then get's refined as I think up simpler
solutions.

I have rewired a few houses in my time (this one 30 years ago and
friends / family etc) and have used / seen all the solutions that have
been discussed so far.

I asked the question to make sure there wasn't some new rule that I
needed to know about or some new 'clip fix' solution that "everyone
uses" these days?

As usual the solutions range between 'what the trade can get away
with' (cheapest / quickest) and mine (money / time less important than
doing a permenant and flexible job) ;-)

To me, putting a cable in a trunking that would allow easy cable
replacement makes as much sense as when we ran the new plastic water
main in some waste pipe when we were about to build our extension on
top of it. Ok, it took another 20 mins and cost another 2.50 but will
be worth every second / penny should something go wrong in the future.
;-)

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the
boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I
have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the
guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle
fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are
standing by.

In message , Dave Stanton
writes

And if you're lucky and there aren't any snots of mortar and other crap
getting in the way of pulling new cable through. If you want to be
_sure_ that the cable is replaceable then stick to plan A and use conduit.

I dont disagree at all, it just seems Tim is getting too involved in what
should be a simple job.


yes, quite.
--
Chris French

T i m

p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the
boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I
have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the
guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle
fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are
standing by.


One thing I will say Tim, is at least you did get advice before doing the
job. Too many come here after they have made the balls up.
Good luck, hope everything goes ok.

Dave

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:44:07 +0000, Dave Stanton
wrote:


T i m

p.s. I hope to start the job today using 25mm oval and grommets in the
boxes. The wall chaser is set for the best size above the oval and I
have a clear (thick black) line maked to line up with the side of the
guard. Henry has a load of new bags and I've checked that the nozzle
fits into the chaser. Ear defenders, goggles, gloves and masks are
standing by.


One thing I will say Tim, is at least you did get advice before doing the
job.

I thought it was sensible to poll those that know (and some who don't
of course) ;-)

Too many come here after they have made the balls up.

I can't remember the last time I made a real 'balls up'? Possibly
because I *do* think things through and try to get feedback from those
in the game etc. The *problem* with the latter is they are often
working from a different book to me, them having to make a living out
of it etc?

Good luck, hope everything goes ok.

Thanks Dave .. it has so far today anyway. 10 boxes cut in, 5 in
blockwork and 5 (in what felt like) granite!

I used my plastic drill jig thing and on the blockwork the Nutool
cheapo hammer drill. The jig stayed in place every time and I was able
to produce 5 neat, square, even holes in next to no time. ;-)

On the harder stuff I used the Challenge SDS drill (again cheap n
faultless all be it slightly heavy) but on at least 2 of the 5 boxes,
one the two plugs holding the jig in place broke free leaving me to
'guide' the drill each time (stll handy having the jig and I took the
liberty to draw round it to see if it moved at any time before I
started).

A bit more work needed with the cold chisel / bolster but I'm still
pleased with the result.

The only damage done (and that was slight) was when I used the SDS
pointed chisel to break away the middle of the first of the 'hard'
boxes and that took a little of the render with it (so I continued by
hand with no more damage).

I just need to run the vertical chases with the new chasing tool and
then I can set the trunking and boxes (with the aid of some gripfill
probably) and I might do that tomorrow or some evenings next week
ready for the plasterer next week.

Just got in and dinner was ready so now for a shower to help my
(slightly) happily, aching body ;-)

All the best .. and thanks to all that offered help and advice ;-)

T i m

Im an electrician, what I do is chop out the wall and the metal box to 25-27mm. Screw the Box to the wall, use 20mm round conduit and simply put the conduit inside the box so that it is approximatley 5mm inside of it. I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the conduit firmly in place. Job done and you can skim over the conduit, but you can usually without to much trouble pull new cables through if you want/need to.

Can be a pain going that deep in stone, but in brick and block it easy really.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:37:39 +0000, andymason79
wrote:


Im an electrician, what I do is chop out the wall and the metal box to
25-27mm. Screw the Box to the wall, use 20mm round conduit and simply
put the conduit inside the box so that it is approximatley 5mm inside
of it.

That sounds like a good idea .. no grommets to push / fall out ;-)

I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the
conduit firmly in place.

Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my
Dad had some of those once .. ;-)

Job done and you can skim over the conduit,
but you can usually without to much trouble pull new cables through if
you want/need to.

And no nasty changes in shape (oval to round) nibs of brick etc to
snag on ;-)

Can be a pain going that deep in stone, but in brick and block it easy
really.

Ah, even stone would bend to the power of the wall dimond disk wall
chaser! ;-)

I'd have to say that it's been a pretty good bit of kit. Not half the
dust folk warned me of (it may of been the new bag in Henry or the
fact I gaffer taped the Henry nozzle to the dust outlet on the chaser
at 45 deg (so it didn;t stick out at 90 deg) or the fairly flat wall
surface ..) and it ran through plaster / blockwork and walked through
some pretty hard brickwork (stuff that bent the nails on wire clips).

With the blockwork one cut and then break away the middle and for the
brick, two cuts (second cut with the blades set in and then used to
'route' the slot clean) and it's sorted ;-)

I'm not sure 'crampets' would have gone far in the hard brick re
holding the oval in place but a few dabs of Gripfill did the trick ..
till the plasterer turns up anyway ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]
I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the
conduit firmly in place.

Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my
Dad had some of those once .. ;-)

http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html

Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ]

[snip]

--
You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.
- Indira Gandhi

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:50:29 GMT, Chip
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]
I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the
conduit firmly in place.

Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my
Dad had some of those once .. ;-)

http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html

Yeah, I did find them with Google thanks (after I ignored the 'did u
mean ..) ;-)

Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ]

What are they actually supposed to be used for?

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:35:56 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:50:29 GMT, Chip
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:52:03 GMT,it is alleged that T i m
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]
I then take to crampets (tapered metal hooks), which hold the
conduit firmly in place.

Hmmm .. (Google crampets "Did you mean crumpet" lol) ah .. I think my
Dad had some of those once .. ;-)

http://tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CO20CRAMP.html

Yeah, I did find them with Google thanks (after I ignored the 'did u
mean ..) ;-)

Good things to have... [snippage includes good advice;-) ]

What are they actually supposed to be used for?

I believe pretty much that purpose (only with steel conduit)

Also for attaching steel conduit to other 'easily hammered into'
things, such as exterior brick walls wheen using the galvanized
versions.

--
You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.
- Indira Gandhi