Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST)
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?


The front wheel bearings on my Poulan Pro light garden
tractor/mower (Husqvarna, Craftsman, Electrolux) are just sleeve/flange:

https://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-532...dp/B00XR0YJ3E/

A really unusual bearing application was the use of wood for the
bearings in an hydroelectric power house turbine in Michigan's Upper
Peninsula. It was installed around the mid 1930's and as far as I know
is still in use. It was some odd type of wood. It ran wet, in the water
going through if I recall correctly...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

Automotive engines are still plain bearings. Main, Rod and camshaft.
Lfters and rocker arms can be found with needle bearing nowdays.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:07:33 AM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

The large majority of IC engines use plain bearings, and always have. Honda's experience with motorcycle engines in the '60s is instructive. They used roller crankshaft bearings until their development work actually showed less friction was developed with the latest plain bearings and lubricants. IIRC, the first engine for which they switched to plain bearings was the 4-cylinder 750, in the late '60s.

Be careful with a couple of points about plain bearings. "Hydrodynamic" bearings are those in which the rotating shaft drags lubricant around with it to maintain a film. The pressure of the oil supply in this case, as in automobile engines, has nothing to do with the film. It's just a supply for the oil to get *into* the bearings.

"Hydrostatic" bearings are those in which oil is supplied at much higher pressure and the film is maintained by that external pressure, even if the shaft is not rotating at the time. Thus the "static" part.

High-speed milling and grinding spindles in some of the more exotic machine tools look like plain bearings, but the film in their case is air -- pneumostatic. There also were pneumodynamic bearings used in toolpost grinders before 1925 or so. They ran hardened-and-polished steel spindles, running in hardened-and-polished steel bushings, at up to 10,000 - 12,000 rpm. There was no external air supply. They just dragged air around dynamically, like a car engine does with oil, and the air created a lubricating film when the spindle got up to speed.

You're dealing with a potentially complex subject. Good luck!

--
Ed Huntress

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:34:55 AM UTC-5, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST)
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?


The front wheel bearings on my Poulan Pro light garden
tractor/mower (Husqvarna, Craftsman, Electrolux) are just sleeve/flange:

https://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-532...dp/B00XR0YJ3E/

A really unusual bearing application was the use of wood for the
bearings in an hydroelectric power house turbine in Michigan's Upper
Peninsula. It was installed around the mid 1930's and as far as I know
is still in use. It was some odd type of wood. It ran wet, in the water
going through if I recall correctly...

'Sounds like lignum vitae. They were used for a lot of bearings in the past, including steam engines and water wheels.

Here's a company that still supplies them:

http://www.lignum-vitae-bearings.com...wood-bearings/

--
Ed Huntress


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 06:07:51 -0800 (PST)
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:34:55 AM UTC-5, Leon Fisk wrote:

A really unusual bearing application was the use of wood for the
bearings in an hydroelectric power house turbine in Michigan's Upper
Peninsula. It was installed around the mid 1930's and as far as I know
is still in use. It was some odd type of wood. It ran wet, in the water
going through if I recall correctly...

'Sounds like lignum vitae. They were used for a lot of bearings in the past, including steam engines and water wheels.

Here's a company that still supplies them:

http://www.lignum-vitae-bearings.com...wood-bearings/


Off the top of my head that sounds right. Something went amiss and
caused it to dry out, seize up. They fixed the water problem, broke it
loose again and it continued in operation. I use to talk with the man in
charge of the operation ~20 years ago. He had long retired but still
kept in touch with his old employer, fellow workers. At that time it
was still in use, even after that mishap.

Pretty cool for a wood bearing

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:07:33 AM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

The center bearing on the Garrett Airesearch air cycle machines on a Boeing 767 is a plain bearing. Basically a backwards turbocharger that expands high pressure/volume engine bleed air to cool it for the ship's cabin. Very high speed operation. Uses the incoming air as a lubricant film in the bearing. There are Teflon ribbons between the bearing surfaces to prevent damage until full pressure and support takes place after the inlet valve is opened.

Garrett

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

--
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
--Henry David Thoreau

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding
application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and
steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe
spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain
bearings in these machines, and some
were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a
long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced
by standardised ball and roller bearings?

What exactly is the definition of a "plain" bearing? Bronze bearings are
still used all the time in all kinds of things. They are great for fast
prototyping mechnical assemblies. Does a nylon bushing count? How about
acetal? How about teflon impregnated acetal? Is cast iron on cast iron in
a mill a plain bearing? Does it only count if its unlubricated? Do modern
exotic materials count?

With the range of materials available today I would be curious to know...

There are lots of simple mechaical devices that have a steel rod pushed
through a hole in a thermo plastic body. Is that a plain bearing? Or does
that not count because there is no third mechancial bit?

Is a plain bearings still a plain bearing if it "accidentally" operates like
an air bearing?

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking
about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more
common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine
crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these
machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in
a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they
been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

============

http://centrifugalpump.org/ball_and_..._bearings.html

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 10:15:11 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding
application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and
steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe
spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain
bearings in these machines, and some
were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a
long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced
by standardised ball and roller bearings?

What exactly is the definition of a "plain" bearing? Bronze bearings are
still used all the time in all kinds of things. They are great for fast
prototyping mechnical assemblies. Does a nylon bushing count? How about
acetal? How about teflon impregnated acetal? Is cast iron on cast iron in
a mill a plain bearing? Does it only count if its unlubricated? Do modern
exotic materials count?

With the range of materials available today I would be curious to know...

There are lots of simple mechaical devices that have a steel rod pushed
through a hole in a thermo plastic body. Is that a plain bearing? Or does
that not count because there is no third mechancial bit?

Is a plain bearings still a plain bearing if it "accidentally" operates like
an air bearing?




A plain bearing, according to Machinery's Handbook, has no rolling
elements. So even the flat way surfaces on machine tools are plain
bearings. So I would say that the hydrodynamicically supported ways in
a milling machine is a demanding application. At least some if not all
F1 engines use plain crankshaft bearings. I would say that's pretty
demanding. Maybe that's too extreme. On the other hand, there are all
sorts of plain bearings sliding on round rods in all different types
of positioning applications. Many of these bearings have aluminum
shells with a thin synthetic lining, Rulon for example, that are very
low friction and can carry very high loads. IGUS is one company that
makes these types of plain bearings and they have all sorts of
examples on their website. I have nothing to do with them except that
I have used their products.
Eric

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:46:10 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking
about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more
common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine
crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these
machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in
a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they
been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris

============

http://centrifugalpump.org/ball_and_..._bearings.html

So SKF came up with the spherical roller thrust bearing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spheri...thrust_bearing

--
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
--Henry David Thoreau

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Thanks!

Chris
both crankpin and main bearings in the vast majority of automotive
and heavy duty engines are still running p-lain bearings

On Tue, 06 Dec 2016 08:56:02 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.
Clutch? What's a clurtch? - seriously - yes , some are still sintered
bronze but many are either roller/needle or ball as well.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 5:07:33 AM UTC-8, Christopher Tidy wrote:


I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking about the extremes

Well, every bicycle chain (or other chain drive, for that matter) uses dozens of
plain bearings, one at every pivoting joint. They're remarkably reliable, considering
the environment.

On 2016-12-06, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking
about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more
common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine
crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these
machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a
new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been
entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Well ... how old do you accept as "modern"?

I've got a nice Cameron Precision sensitive drill press, which I
got new sometime in the 1970s which has plain bearings on the spindle.
It goes up to pretty high RPMs. The spindle ends in a JT-0 and mine
came with a 1/8" Albrecht chuck on it. to give an idea of size.)

And -- as far as I can tell, they still use the plain bearings.
(they look like sintered bronze style, not hand-scraped bearings.

Ehre is the page which shows mine as the first photo, excep that
mine does not have the clear plastic belt cover.

http://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/

Scroll down far enough and there is a link for contacting for
questions -- so you could verify whether they still use the same
bearings that way.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2016-12-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application?

[ ... ]

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

Well -- the MGA (1956 to I think around 1964) used needle roller
bearings for the clutch pilot, and the throwout bearing was a graphite
ring in a cup applied to a hardened steel ring..

The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

Enjoy,
DoN.


--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 7 Dec 2016 03:00:25 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application?

[ ... ]

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

Well -- the MGA (1956 to I think around 1964) used needle roller
bearings for the clutch pilot, and the throwout bearing was a graphite
ring in a cup applied to a hardened steel ring..

Caged? Wow, advanced tech back then. At least those trannies were
single-armers. I used both knees and both arms to hoist my Borg T-10
up into the Javelin bell housing.


The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

I thought that kind of sadism was limited to u-joint cups...
There were only 2 places I ever used long grain wheel bearing grease.
The first was on water pump gaskets, after gluing the gasket to the
pump. I hated scraping old gaskets off timing case covers. The second
was to glue the loose needle bearings in u-joint cups so they wouldn't
be crushed in the press during assembly. I bought the Harbor Freight
5" Mechanic's vise in 1976 for that latter use. Once the cups were
flush-seated, I could use a dowel and mallet to finish seating them to
snap-ring depth. The newer moly wbg didn't work worth a crap to hold
those needles.

--
We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is
no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.
--Henry David Thoreau

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 21:51:16 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


The people who preceded the Romans were pretty good at making metal
spheres too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:E...980.2-1.42.jpg

Surely something fit for a Queen. What kind of magnifying glass was
used by the person who crafted that? The detail probably took
weeks.
(Roger Bacon discovered the magnifying glass in 1250)

I had the eyesight and fine motor skill for that kind of detail when I
was young. I could read the States' names on the Lincoln Memorial on
the back of a $5 bill.
http://www.realcurriculum.com/scopec...a-III.PICT.jpg

With a magnifier I can still splice the ends of 0.015" solder
together.
-jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 7 Dec 2016 03:00:25 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold
them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

I thought that kind of sadism was limited to u-joint cups...

I did the same thing when I made a set of stainless steel replacement
wheels for a hydraulic lift that lives on sometimes-damp ground. It
was far less trouble to hold the welding-rod needles in place with
boat trailer wheel bearing grease during assembly than to machine
retainers for them.
-jsw

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-12-06, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking
about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more
common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine
crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these
machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a
new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been
entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Well ... how old do you accept as "modern"?

I've got a nice Cameron Precision sensitive drill press, which I
got new sometime in the 1970s which has plain bearings on the spindle.
It goes up to pretty high RPMs. The spindle ends in a JT-0 and mine
came with a 1/8" Albrecht chuck on it. to give an idea of size.)

Got one of those too. They just discontinued the classic looking model for
a newer design. My guess is they ran out of castings or motor parts from
decades ago. While way newer than yours, it has plain bearings as well.
With a little practice I was able to drill through the widest part of a
brass key for about a 30x width hole with good straightness. There's no
play that I can measure, and they claim speeds up to 30,000 RPM are OK.
Small bearings can run fast, so there probably isn't any real sorcery
behind their bearings other than there's some hand fitting going on at the
factory where they take out all the play. The original motors are real
screwy, so there's no loss if they ditched those for something better,
even if it doesn't match the look of the original.

And -- as far as I can tell, they still use the plain bearings.
(they look like sintered bronze style, not hand-scraped bearings.

Ehre is the page which shows mine as the first photo, excep that
mine does not have the clear plastic belt cover.

http://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/

Scroll down far enough and there is a link for contacting for
questions -- so you could verify whether they still use the same
bearings that way.

Enjoy,
DoN.

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 7:20:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-12-06, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking
about the extremes (like dental drills and steam turbines), but more
common applications such as supporting lathe spindles and engine
crankshafts. It used to be common to have plain bearings in these
machines, and some were incredibly durable, but I haven't seen any in a
new product for a long time. Are there any examples, or have they been
entirely displaced by standardised ball and roller bearings?

Well ... how old do you accept as "modern"?

I've got a nice Cameron Precision sensitive drill press, which I
got new sometime in the 1970s which has plain bearings on the spindle.
It goes up to pretty high RPMs. The spindle ends in a JT-0 and mine
came with a 1/8" Albrecht chuck on it. to give an idea of size.)

Got one of those too. They just discontinued the classic looking model for
a newer design. My guess is they ran out of castings or motor parts from
decades ago. While way newer than yours, it has plain bearings as well.
With a little practice I was able to drill through the widest part of a
brass key for about a 30x width hole with good straightness. There's no
play that I can measure, and they claim speeds up to 30,000 RPM are OK.
Small bearings can run fast, so there probably isn't any real sorcery
behind their bearings other than there's some hand fitting going on at the
factory where they take out all the play. The original motors are real
screwy, so there's no loss if they ditched those for something better,
even if it doesn't match the look of the original.

And -- as far as I can tell, they still use the plain bearings.
(they look like sintered bronze style, not hand-scraped bearings.

Ehre is the page which shows mine as the first photo, excep that
mine does not have the clear plastic belt cover.

http://cameronmicrodrillpress.com/sensitive-manual-micro-drill-presses/

Scroll down far enough and there is a link for contacting for
questions -- so you could verify whether they still use the same
bearings that way.

Enjoy,
DoN.


Really accurate, oil-lubricated plain bearings in normal sizes can run with a clearance as small as 0.0002" or so, which is more or less the resulting spindle accuracy at modest speeds, as on a lathe.

However -- and this is a big however -- when they turn at really high speeds (and your description sounds like this is a high-speed spindle), the centering force from the hydrodynamic action can be very high. In other words, they can run a heck of a lot closer than their nominal clearance.

Ball bearings, of course, can run with zero clearance when they're preloaded. But they present other problems when the speeds get high. The centrifugal force (here come the nit-pickers...g) overcomes the preload and the accuracy of the spindle or shaft declines. That's why they use ceramic bearing balls in high-speed spindles: they're lighter, so there's less force fighting against the preload.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-12-08, Cydrome Leader wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-12-06, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application? I'm not talking

[ ... ]

Well ... how old do you accept as "modern"?

I've got a nice Cameron Precision sensitive drill press, which I
got new sometime in the 1970s which has plain bearings on the spindle.
It goes up to pretty high RPMs. The spindle ends in a JT-0 and mine
came with a 1/8" Albrecht chuck on it. to give an idea of size.)

Got one of those too. They just discontinued the classic looking model for
a newer design. My guess is they ran out of castings or motor parts from
decades ago. While way newer than yours, it has plain bearings as well.
With a little practice I was able to drill through the widest part of a
brass key for about a 30x width hole with good straightness. There's no
play that I can measure, and they claim speeds up to 30,000 RPM are OK.
Small bearings can run fast, so there probably isn't any real sorcery
behind their bearings other than there's some hand fitting going on at the
factory where they take out all the play. The original motors are real
screwy, so there's no loss if they ditched those for something better,
even if it doesn't match the look of the original.

Yes -- universal motors with a three-position switch, off, low,
and high speeds (infinite series resistance, fixed series resistance, or
zero series resistance -- for approximate values of infinite and zero. :-)

I have mine plugged into a speed controller for older (fixed
speed) Dremels, and keep the motor switch set for "high". I had to
replace the original switch on one at work when it started arcing when
switched to "stop" once. :-) Mine survived nicely, so far. :-)

I've even used it, with one of the solid carbide bits made for
printed circuit boards to drill out the center of a broken 6-32 tap.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2016-12-07, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 7 Dec 2016 03:00:25 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application?

[ ... ]

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

Well -- the MGA (1956 to I think around 1964) used needle roller
bearings for the clutch pilot, and the throwout bearing was a graphite
ring in a cup applied to a hardened steel ring..

Caged? Wow, advanced tech back then.

No such luck! :-)

At least those trannies were
single-armers. I used both knees and both arms to hoist my Borg T-10
up into the Javelin bell housing.

Well ... with the MGA, while the tranny was lighter, it included
the bell housing as part of its casting, so you needed to pull the
engine and trans as an assembly out of the car before you could either
pull the trans off the engine or re-install it. :-)

The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

I thought that kind of sadism was limited to u-joint cups...

It was not that bad, I had the engine hanging from a tree with a
pulley, and could easily insert the needle bearings, and then lift the
trans and put it into the back of the engine, with the pilot starting
nicely enough. It helped to have another pair of hands to put the first
couple of bolts in place holding the trans to the engine. :-)

OBTW -- The MGB was the same, as I put an 1800 CC MGB engine
in my 1622 CC MGA 1600 Mark II.

There were only 2 places I ever used long grain wheel bearing grease.
The first was on water pump gaskets, after gluing the gasket to the
pump. I hated scraping old gaskets off timing case covers. The second
was to glue the loose needle bearings in u-joint cups so they wouldn't
be crushed in the press during assembly. I bought the Harbor Freight
5" Mechanic's vise in 1976 for that latter use. Once the cups were
flush-seated, I could use a dowel and mallet to finish seating them to
snap-ring depth. The newer moly wbg didn't work worth a crap to hold
those needles.

At that time, I had only a very tiny bottle of Molly grease,
which I used for hand tapping with spiral point (gun) taps.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 9 Dec 2016 04:42:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-07, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 7 Dec 2016 03:00:25 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application?

[ ... ]

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

Well -- the MGA (1956 to I think around 1964) used needle roller
bearings for the clutch pilot, and the throwout bearing was a graphite
ring in a cup applied to a hardened steel ring..

Caged? Wow, advanced tech back then.

No such luck! :-)

At least those trannies were
single-armers. I used both knees and both arms to hoist my Borg T-10
up into the Javelin bell housing.

Well ... with the MGA, while the tranny was lighter, it included
the bell housing as part of its casting, so you needed to pull the
engine and trans as an assembly out of the car before you could either
pull the trans off the engine or re-install it. :-)

Back then, it took an hour for that job. It's a little different
today. I remember climbing over the fender of my '60 F-100 and
standing next to the 312cid V-8 to do the tuneup. I could see right
down into the distributor for points and condenser. change, and the
spark plugs were right in front of me. Times have changed.


The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

I thought that kind of sadism was limited to u-joint cups...

It was not that bad, I had the engine hanging from a tree with a
pulley, and could easily insert the needle bearings, and then lift the
trans and put it into the back of the engine, with the pilot starting
nicely enough. It helped to have another pair of hands to put the first
couple of bolts in place holding the trans to the engine. :-)

First stab is the reckoning. You start to tighten the bolts and it
just doesn't want to easily slide up to the engine block when you
realize that a needle is caught. Gently undo it all and start over.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.


OBTW -- The MGB was the same, as I put an 1800 CC MGB engine
in my 1622 CC MGA 1600 Mark II.

Ricky Racer, wot? I'll bet that pepped it up a bit.


There were only 2 places I ever used long grain wheel bearing grease.
The first was on water pump gaskets, after gluing the gasket to the
pump. I hated scraping old gaskets off timing case covers. The second
was to glue the loose needle bearings in u-joint cups so they wouldn't
be crushed in the press during assembly. I bought the Harbor Freight
5" Mechanic's vise in 1976 for that latter use. Once the cups were
flush-seated, I could use a dowel and mallet to finish seating them to
snap-ring depth. The newer moly wbg didn't work worth a crap to hold
those needles.

At that time, I had only a very tiny bottle of Molly grease,
which I used for hand tapping with spiral point (gun) taps.

Yeah, it wasn't extremely available when I started that. Now,
searching for the long grain grease is like finding a dinosaur tooth.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 07:04:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 9 Dec 2016 04:42:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-07, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 7 Dec 2016 03:00:25 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-12-06, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 05:07:30 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I need an example for an article. Can anyone think of a modern product
which uses plain bearings in a demanding application?

[ ... ]

Are clutch pilot bearings still sintered bronze? That's a dusty,
dirty, hot, and demanding application.

Well -- the MGA (1956 to I think around 1964) used needle roller
bearings for the clutch pilot, and the throwout bearing was a graphite
ring in a cup applied to a hardened steel ring..

Caged? Wow, advanced tech back then.

No such luck! :-)

At least those trannies were
single-armers. I used both knees and both arms to hoist my Borg T-10
up into the Javelin bell housing.

Well ... with the MGA, while the tranny was lighter, it included
the bell housing as part of its casting, so you needed to pull the
engine and trans as an assembly out of the car before you could either
pull the trans off the engine or re-install it. :-)

Back then, it took an hour for that job. It's a little different
today. I remember climbing over the fender of my '60 F-100 and
standing next to the 312cid V-8 to do the tuneup. I could see right
down into the distributor for points and condenser. change, and the
spark plugs were right in front of me. Times have changed.


The needle roller bearing was not an assembly, but rather a
cluster of needles which you put in place with some grease to hold them
until the input shaft pilot was into place.

I thought that kind of sadism was limited to u-joint cups...

It was not that bad, I had the engine hanging from a tree with a
pulley, and could easily insert the needle bearings, and then lift the
trans and put it into the back of the engine, with the pilot starting
nicely enough. It helped to have another pair of hands to put the first
couple of bolts in place holding the trans to the engine. :-)

First stab is the reckoning. You start to tighten the bolts and it
just doesn't want to easily slide up to the engine block when you
realize that a needle is caught. Gently undo it all and start over.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.


OBTW -- The MGB was the same, as I put an 1800 CC MGB engine
in my 1622 CC MGA 1600 Mark II.

Ricky Racer, wot? I'll bet that pepped it up a bit.

\ You want to see a twin carb 1800 B in a '53 TD!!!


There were only 2 places I ever used long grain wheel bearing grease.
The first was on water pump gaskets, after gluing the gasket to the
pump. I hated scraping old gaskets off timing case covers. The second
was to glue the loose needle bearings in u-joint cups so they wouldn't
be crushed in the press during assembly. I bought the Harbor Freight
5" Mechanic's vise in 1976 for that latter use. Once the cups were
flush-seated, I could use a dowel and mallet to finish seating them to
snap-ring depth. The newer moly wbg didn't work worth a crap to hold
those needles.

At that time, I had only a very tiny bottle of Molly grease,
which I used for hand tapping with spiral point (gun) taps.

Yeah, it wasn't extremely available when I started that. Now,
searching for the long grain grease is like finding a dinosaur tooth.

AMALIE (Super Heavy Duty Wheel Bearing Grease #4) and CRC (SL3135)
still make sodium soap based wheel bearing grease. There are also many
manufacturers in India.

Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of common products which are currently in production, and where a risk of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly. Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris

On 09/12/16 22:22, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of common products which are currently in production, and where a risk of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly. Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris
Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing. Regarding compressors rolling element
bearings are simple and cheap and save having a pressure oil supply and
can be splash lubricated so may be used where they can be fitted such as
a single cylinder example a neighbour has or my 2 cylinder with 2
bearings on a common pin. A mate used to work for Bendix air compressors
not many years ago and those compressors used plain bearing and the oil
supply was taken off the engine so no need for an oil pump in the
compressor. Another recent compressor I took apart had ball bearings for
the main bearings on the crank and the big end bearings were plain
supplied by a pick tube which dipped into the oil sump. One of the items
my mate mentioned about the Bendix compressors was the conrods were
aluminium and made from an alloy formulated by Rolls Royce IIRC around
WW2 so the material properties suited the structural requirements of a
conrod and acted as a bearing material also as the rod material acted as
the plain bearing.

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 5:22:36 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of common products which are currently in production, and where a risk of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly. Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris

Every make you mentioned uses plain shell bearings. Very few engines are built with roller crankshaft bearings today, and those are, as far as I know, all small, high-performance 2-strokes. Even they may have switched; I haven't kept up.

The advantages of roller bearings in an engine apply where there is little lubrication and high loads -- thus, the two-strokes. There were some roller-bearing F1 4-strokes among the V10s (they were ceramic) but no longer.

The friction issue is about a wash overall in IC engines. One additional issue with roller bearings is that they take up too much space in a compact engine crankcase.

--
Ed Huntress

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of common
products which are currently in production, and where a risk of sudden
failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly. Slow and
lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the design isn't
critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine I
took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a
similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly any
signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in the big
end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I don't see
so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least nothing so
visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw and 1940s
sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car
engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford,
Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris

==============
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012...your-bearings/

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 14:41:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 5:22:36 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of common products which are currently in production, and where a risk of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly. Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris

Every make you mentioned uses plain shell bearings. Very few engines are built with roller crankshaft bearings today, and those are, as far as I know, all small, high-performance 2-strokes. Even they may have switched; I haven't kept up.

The advantages of roller bearings in an engine apply where there is little lubrication and high loads -- thus, the two-strokes. There were some roller-bearing F1 4-strokes among the V10s (they were ceramic) but no longer.

The friction issue is about a wash overall in IC engines. One additional issue with roller bearings is that they take up too much space in a compact engine crankcase.
Two strokes use rolling element bearings because at the speeds they
operate at only a very small amount of lube is required. In fact, too
much oil or oil pressure will cause the rolling elements to skid which
leads to failure. As Ed says all major engine makers use plain
bearings. Plain bearings can also be an advantage when the oil may be
dirty. This is because, in part, the dirt particles either embed into
the bearing material or are pushed out of the way. Rolling element
bearings can be caused to skid on fine dirt particles. This of course
leads to rapid bearing failure. Sometimes the dirt particles will get
rolled over by the rolling elements and this distorts the bearing
parts. This distortion can be elastic or plastic. Constant elastic
distortion leads to premature failure from fatigue. Plastic distortion
means that the bearing part is permanently distorted which also leads
to rapid failure. Plain bearings can be made so that they will
tolerate quite a bit of fine particle embedment without the particles
acting as an abrasive. This is because the particles actually end up
just beneath the bearing surface. Certain bearing materials, such as
silver, have remarkable fatigue lives so they last a very long time.
The above are just some of the reasons that plain bearings continue to
be used in car engines, electric motors of all types, and even very
heavy loaded shafting in hostile environments. With the materials used
today plain bearings show exemplary lifetimes in demanding
applications. A car engine today from any decent maker is expected to
last at least 150,000 miles. At least. And this is in a situation
where the user doesn't always change the oil as often as they should.
And even though we tend to think of a bearing as something that rolls
plain bearings can also be sliding. A great common example is a piston
sliding up and down in a car engine. Failure of the bearing surface(s)
in a cylinder will definitely lead to catastrophic failure. And it's
not just the piston to cylinder bearing surfaces but also the piston
ring to cylinder surfaces that need to work for a long time. I think
you now have plenty of examples of common uses of plain bearings
Chris,
Eric

"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 09/12/16 22:22, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of
common products which are currently in production, and where a risk
of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly.
Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the
design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine
I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a
similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly
any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in
the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I
don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least
nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw
and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car
engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford,
Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris
Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing. Regarding compressors rolling element
bearings are simple and cheap and save having a pressure oil supply
and can be splash lubricated so may be used where they can be fitted
such as a single cylinder example a neighbour has or my 2 cylinder
with 2 bearings on a common pin. A mate used to work for Bendix air
compressors not many years ago and those compressors used plain
bearing and the oil supply was taken off the engine so no need for
an oil pump in the compressor. Another recent compressor I took
apart had ball bearings for the main bearings on the crank and the
big end bearings were plain supplied by a pick tube which dipped
into the oil sump. One of the items my mate mentioned about the
Bendix compressors was the conrods were aluminium and made from an
alloy formulated by Rolls Royce IIRC around WW2 so the material
properties suited the structural requirements of a conrod and acted
as a bearing material also as the rod material acted as the plain
bearing.

Honda runs camshafts directly in the aluminum of the cylinder head.

This was among the most thoroughly engineered, highest performance
mass-produced engines of all time:
http://www.connecticutscorsair.com/p...ne_history.htm
"..Pratt deviated from its former design philosophy of rolling-element
bearings and used plain silver-lead-indium bearings for the crankshaft
main and master rod bearings."

--jsw

On 09/12/16 23:54, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 09/12/16 22:22, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of
common products which are currently in production, and where a risk
of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly.
Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the
design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine
I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a
similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly
any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in
the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I
don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least
nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw
and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car
engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford,
Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris
Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing. Regarding compressors rolling element
bearings are simple and cheap and save having a pressure oil supply
and can be splash lubricated so may be used where they can be fitted
such as a single cylinder example a neighbour has or my 2 cylinder
with 2 bearings on a common pin. A mate used to work for Bendix air
compressors not many years ago and those compressors used plain
bearing and the oil supply was taken off the engine so no need for
an oil pump in the compressor. Another recent compressor I took
apart had ball bearings for the main bearings on the crank and the
big end bearings were plain supplied by a pick tube which dipped
into the oil sump. One of the items my mate mentioned about the
Bendix compressors was the conrods were aluminium and made from an
alloy formulated by Rolls Royce IIRC around WW2 so the material
properties suited the structural requirements of a conrod and acted
as a bearing material also as the rod material acted as the plain
bearing.
Honda runs camshafts directly in the aluminum of the cylinder head.

This was among the most thoroughly engineered, highest performance
mass-produced engines of all time:
http://www.connecticutscorsair.com/p...ne_history.htm
"..Pratt deviated from its former design philosophy of rolling-element
bearings and used plain silver-lead-indium bearings for the crankshaft
main and master rod bearings."

--jsw



I recall that FIAT were doing that back in the 1960s with the twin cam
and single cam engines so nothing new.

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 6:53:37 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 09/12/16 22:22, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Thanks for all the useful answers. I'm looking for examples of
common products which are currently in production, and where a risk
of sudden failure exists if the bearing fails to behave properly.
Slow and lightly loaded applications aren't so interesting, as the
design isn't critical and the price is going to be the main factor.

Car engines and jet engines are interesting. The last small engine
I took apart (400 cc) had rolling element main bearings, whereas a
similar older engine (600 cc) had huge plain bearings and hardly
any signs of wear. I also saw a compressor with a ball bearing in
the big end of the connecting rod recently. This got me thinking. I
don't see so many plain bearings in modern products, or at least
nothing so visible as the bronze sleeves in my 1960s power hacksaw
and 1940s sewing machine. But maybe "see" is the important word.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of bearings are used in specific car
engines from well-known manufacturers today? Volkswagen, Ford,
Mercedes, etc.? An example or two would be useful

Thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Chris
Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing. Regarding compressors rolling element
bearings are simple and cheap and save having a pressure oil supply
and can be splash lubricated so may be used where they can be fitted
such as a single cylinder example a neighbour has or my 2 cylinder
with 2 bearings on a common pin. A mate used to work for Bendix air
compressors not many years ago and those compressors used plain
bearing and the oil supply was taken off the engine so no need for
an oil pump in the compressor. Another recent compressor I took
apart had ball bearings for the main bearings on the crank and the
big end bearings were plain supplied by a pick tube which dipped
into the oil sump. One of the items my mate mentioned about the
Bendix compressors was the conrods were aluminium and made from an
alloy formulated by Rolls Royce IIRC around WW2 so the material
properties suited the structural requirements of a conrod and acted
as a bearing material also as the rod material acted as the plain
bearing.

Honda runs camshafts directly in the aluminum of the cylinder head.

This was among the most thoroughly engineered, highest performance
mass-produced engines of all time:
http://www.connecticutscorsair.com/p...ne_history.htm
"..Pratt deviated from its former design philosophy of rolling-element
bearings and used plain silver-lead-indium bearings for the crankshaft
main and master rod bearings."

--jsw

Good article on the P&W 2800. Very good engine, but he neglected the engine analyzer distributor on the rear accessory gearbox in his listing of components there. That was only the later models though. Everyone has their favorite music, I reckon, but to an aircraft mechanic there's nothing more stirring than four 2800's running dry on a 40 degree day at full throttle when all 4 water/meth. switches are thrown. Man, they could sing when the juice hit.

Garrett

Garrett

On 12/09/2016 03:26 PM, wrote:
Two strokes use rolling element bearings because at the speeds they
operate at only a very small amount of lube is required.

I think it's because only a very small amount of lube is... available. A
mist. 2-Stroke oil in the gas isn't for the benefit of combustion.

Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 23:39:51 UTC+1 schrieb David Billington:

Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing.

Actually, no. It was a 4-stroke JAP air-cooled engine and had taper-roller main bearings. Not such a new engine, I suppose, but much newer than the other engines I was working on at the time. It started me wondering if the change was part of a pattern.

Chris

Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 23:41:14 UTC+1 schrieb :

Every make you mentioned uses plain shell bearings. Very few engines are built with roller crankshaft bearings today, and those are, as far as I know, all small, high-performance 2-strokes. Even they may have switched; I haven't kept up.

Ed, do you know what metal is used for those plain shell bearings? I'd be interested to know.

Thanks,

Chris

On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 7:00:10 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 23:41:14 UTC+1 schrieb :

Every make you mentioned uses plain shell bearings. Very few engines are built with roller crankshaft bearings today, and those are, as far as I know, all small, high-performance 2-strokes. Even they may have switched; I haven't kept up.

Ed, do you know what metal is used for those plain shell bearings? I'd be interested to know.

Thanks,

Chris

Jim gave a link to a bearing manufacturer or something a few posts up the thread. It does a good job of telling what they're using today, and why.

There are two basic kinds: two-layer (steel shell, silicon-aluminum bearing face) and three-layer (high-performance, steel shell, several other metals used in layers.) I've also heard of silver being used as the top layer in racing engines -- extreme resistance to fatigue.

It's worth reading Jim's link.

--
Ed Huntress

wrote:
On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 7:00:10 PM UTC-5, Christopher Tidy
wrote:
Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 23:41:14 UTC+1 schrieb
:

Every make you mentioned uses plain shell bearings. Very few
engines are built with roller crankshaft bearings today, and
those are, as far as I know, all small, high-performance
2-strokes. Even they may have switched; I haven't kept up.
Ed, do you know what metal is used for those plain shell bearings?
I'd be interested to know.

Thanks,

Chris

Jim gave a link to a bearing manufacturer or something a few posts up
the thread. It does a good job of telling what they're using today,
and why.

There are two basic kinds: two-layer (steel shell, silicon-aluminum
bearing face) and three-layer (high-performance, steel shell, several
other metals used in layers.) I've also heard of silver being used as
the top layer in racing engines -- extreme resistance to fatigue.

It's worth reading Jim's link.


There are also some using aluminum shells.

--
Steve W.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 15:58:18 -0800 (PST), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Am Freitag, 9. Dezember 2016 23:39:51 UTC+1 schrieb David Billington:

Chris,

I would guess that the small engine you took apart with rolling
element bearings was a 2 stroke, that's pretty standard whereas a 4
stroke would be plain bearing.

Actually, no. It was a 4-stroke JAP air-cooled engine and had taper-roller main bearings. Not such a new engine, I suppose, but much newer than the other engines I was working on at the time. It started me wondering if the change was part of a pattern.

Chris
A lot of "industrial duty" 4 strokes have rolling element bearings on
thePTO end - some balls, some rollers. A few have them on both ends.