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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Small lathes, like JET BD-920N
On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn- : My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material? Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work to be done? You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality. Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking HTH -- Cliff |
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The venerable BD920 is not crap, but it isn't heavy iron either. For the
price, you won't find anything better that can be easily moved or is less than 40 years old. Just don't expect to take 1/4" cuts from titanium bar stock ;-) Check around for the best pricing as all of these lathes are made in the same Chinese factories. For example, Enco was running a special with free freight on their BD920 clone. It's gray instead of white, but it beat the Jet price by hundreds of dollars. Cliff wrote: On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote: szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn- : My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material? Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work to be done? You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality. Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking HTH |
#3
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Small used SB lathes are pretty common; usually belt driven, some w/ snap
handle 5C collet closers--$2500 asking, from dealers, proly a lot less elsewhere. Also proly a lot heavier than Jets, et al. What I've done is "put the word out" or hung Lathe Wanted signs at the counter of my local machine shop supplier. They are (or should be) happy to do it, cuz they know you'll be coming back for all the stuff you'll need to run it. Can find some nice stuff this way. I myself got a used 13" Enco, that the previous owner did a hellified job of fixing up internally, w/ Aloris tooling, DRO, cam lock chucks, snap handle 5C--cain't hardly work on "regular" Clausing Colchesters, Southbends anymore, I'm so spoiled. But indeed he put a lot of effort into making really nice. ---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll "Scott" wrote in message ... "szaki" wrote in message ... My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/Je...%20DRIVE%20BEN CH%20LATHE Any one has experiance working with the JET lathe? Is there other brands out there for the same price range? Thanks, Julius I worked in a shop that had one for just that reason. We put an AXA toolpost on it, and worked it for years doing little stuff and onesy twoseys. It wont hog anything, and you can not disengage the halfnut during a thread, you have stop the spindle and reverse it to the start, and go again. For anything real, they are going to have to spend money and buy a South Bend. http://www.southbendlathe.com/eng10.htm http://www.southbendlathe.com/tool10.htm |
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:22:59 -0400, Cliff wrote:
My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. All is relative. A lot of useful stuff can be made on a not-very-precise inexpensive lathe. It soundly beats a drillpress and a file. A precision machinist might regard it as "crap" compared to a better machine, but not all useful things need be made to even ..002" tolerance, much less tenths. I very rarely work to tolerance closer than .001". It simply isn't necessary for many useful things. |
#5
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:17:04 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote: Small used SB lathes are pretty common; usually belt driven, some w/ snap handle 5C collet closers--$2500 asking, from dealers, proly a lot less elsewhere. Also proly a lot heavier than Jets, et al. What I've done is "put the word out" or hung Lathe Wanted signs at the counter of my local machine shop supplier. They are (or should be) happy to do it, cuz they know you'll be coming back for all the stuff you'll need to run it. Can find some nice stuff this way. I myself got a used 13" Enco, that the previous owner did a hellified job of fixing up internally, w/ Aloris tooling, DRO, cam lock chucks, snap handle 5C--cain't hardly work on "regular" Clausing Colchesters, Southbends anymore, I'm so spoiled. But indeed he put a lot of effort into making really nice. This is from the "FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking" (for those that don't know if it): [ The FAQ (Frequently Asked/Answered Questions) for rec.crafts.metalworking is available at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal ================================================== ================ Some other, very useful resources for readers of this group include: ================================================== ================ Logan Lathe Owners Group: Yahoo Group for Logan Lathe Owners http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lathe-list/ ================================================== ================ South Bend Lathe Owners Group: Yahoo Group for South Bend Lathe Owners http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/ ================================================== ================ ] SNIP -- Cliff |
#6
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Tim Killian wrote:
The venerable BD920 is not crap, but it isn't heavy iron either. For the price, you won't find anything better that can be easily moved or is less than 40 years old. Just don't expect to take 1/4" cuts from titanium bar stock ;-) Check around for the best pricing as all of these lathes are made in the same Chinese factories. For example, Enco was running a special with free freight on their BD920 clone. It's gray instead of white, but it beat the Jet price by hundreds of dollars. My Jet 9X20 has a 1 1/2 x 8 thread for the chuck. Don't know if you think that is important. Other 9X20 have a Metric thread. Bill K7NOM Cliff wrote: On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote: szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn- : My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material? Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work to be done? You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality. Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking HTH |
#7
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szaki wrote in
news D Murphy wrote: szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn- : My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material? Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work to be done? You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality. *One application is turning Machinable Mica ceramics, 1" or less dia. So no heavy cuts or production, small metal parts, brass, aluminum, steal, bolts, nuts etc... I guess! We had a small hobby lathe, it's crap now, all worn out. JET lathe would be most likely a big improvement over the small $300 crappy hobby lathe. Julius Well it might be OK for something like that but I doubt it. If you were to spend 50% more time on that lathe trying to get something done, the math is pretty easy. Lets say you use it 4 hours/week. A better lathe can get it done in 3. So you save an hour x say $20.00/hr. x 50 weeks x 5 years = $5,000.00. 20 bucks an hour is probably low all things considered. A DRO will easily save that hour. A heavier variable speed machine, with a quick change tool post will probably save another. While you may just be doing some odds and ends and this and that, it all adds up. Then what is the cost to the company if the lathe breaks and you can't get a job done in time? I doubt that the JET will hold up as well as a better more expensive brand, so there is the cost of maintenance and sooner replacement to consider as well. What if the work load changes and you begin using the lathe 20 hours/week or full time? Are they not trying to grow the business? Over five years time spending $6000.00 more amounts to less than $5.00 per day. The question is, can a good lathe save you that much money per day? I'll bet the guy that owns the place spends more than that on lunch every day. If the company is profitable, the owner can write off the depreciation as well. So the real cost of a more expensive machine is a lot less, when all things are considered. If I were looking for a hobby lathe to stick in my garage, I might give it a go. I would never buy one as an integral part of my business. I wouldn't want a customer to see it in my shop for one. Not when you can walk into Menards and buy the same machine off the floor. I'd sooner find a used industrial machine if I were that hard up for cash. But that's just my opinion, YMMV. -- Dan |
#9
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D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news D Murphy wrote: szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn- : My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns into crap later! Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the factory. A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material? Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work to be done? You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality. *One application is turning Machinable Mica ceramics, 1" or less dia. So no heavy cuts or production, small metal parts, brass, aluminum, steal, bolts, nuts etc... I guess! We had a small hobby lathe, it's crap now, all worn out. JET lathe would be most likely a big improvement over the small $300 crappy hobby lathe. Julius Well it might be OK for something like that but I doubt it. If you were to spend 50% more time on that lathe trying to get something done, the math is pretty easy. Lets say you use it 4 hours/week. A better lathe can get it done in 3. So you save an hour x say $20.00/hr. x 50 weeks x 5 years = $5,000.00. 20 bucks an hour is probably low all things considered. A DRO will easily save that hour. A heavier variable speed machine, with a quick change tool post will probably save another. While you may just be doing some odds and ends and this and that, it all adds up. Then what is the cost to the company if the lathe breaks and you can't get a job done in time? I doubt that the JET will hold up as well as a better more expensive brand, so there is the cost of maintenance and sooner replacement to consider as well. What if the work load changes and you begin using the lathe 20 hours/week or full time? Are they not trying to grow the business? Over five years time spending $6000.00 more amounts to less than $5.00 per day. The question is, can a good lathe save you that much money per day? I'll bet the guy that owns the place spends more than that on lunch every day. If the company is profitable, the owner can write off the depreciation as well. So the real cost of a more expensive machine is a lot less, when all things are considered. If I were looking for a hobby lathe to stick in my garage, I might give it a go. I would never buy one as an integral part of my business. I wouldn't want a customer to see it in my shop for one. Not when you can walk into Menards and buy the same machine off the floor. I'd sooner find a used industrial machine if I were that hard up for cash. But that's just my opinion, YMMV. This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 JS |
#10
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"szaki" wrote in message ... This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 Run from Harbor Freight like a scalded dog. |
#11
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It is the same lathe as the Jet BD920. Both have speed reduction gears
and both use a belt drive from the motor. Neither one is made in Taiwan. szaki wrote: This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 JS |
#12
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szaki wrote in news:H82dnYrEVO7rBaXeRVn-
: This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. Hourly workers still have costs. Probably even higher than I estimated. Wasted time is wasted money. The more money the company makes the better off you and they are. Unless they get paid for engineering time, every non production employee's salary is a burden on the production workers hourly cost. Your time is the only thing that can be charged for besides raw materials. The cost of your time includes the cost of non production salaries. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 Out of the frying pan and into the fire. -- Dan |
#13
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Tim Killian wrote:
It is the same lathe as the Jet BD920. Both have speed reduction gears and both use a belt drive from the motor. Neither one is made in Taiwan. szaki wrote: This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 JS Gee, these companies! Offer the same crap in different colors. Who sells BV20 lathes? http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe..._9x20.htm#BV20 If you need the 20" between centers for working on more that Contender barrels, then you might look into Samuel Machinery's BV20E-L. After asking Hank and Tom, of Samuel Machinery, about it's quality, they assured me it had none of the design problems of the normal offerings of 9x20, being of a completely different design, and much better manufacturing quality. Tom did say that, in his opinion, it wasn't as nice a machine as their CH-350, but was far above the Chinese 9x20's. It sells for $895 with all of the accessories the other 9x20's have... Follower rest, steady rest, faceplate, 4-jaw chuck, etc. I'm not aware of anybody that owns one of these, but a couple of members saw it at the Cabin Fever show and might be the best source to answer questions on finer details. Julius |
#14
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D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:H82dnYrEVO7rBaXeRVn- : This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. Hourly workers still have costs. Probably even higher than I estimated. Wasted time is wasted money. The more money the company makes the better off you and they are. Unless they get paid for engineering time, every non production employee's salary is a burden on the production workers hourly cost. Your time is the only thing that can be charged for besides raw materials. The cost of your time includes the cost of non production salaries. I understand, I use to work in job shops, where every thing was logged, even the left over or scrap material and setup time too! Here, the small lathe is not used for production, more like assist. I'm grinding crystals for lasers on CNC mills, that's what pays for my salary. Some times have to build a fixture and need a lathe to turn pins, brass centers, small parts, machinable ceramics on the side. Old hobby lathe is in bad shape and need a new one that's why I'm looking it the 9x20 lathes. Company don't want to spend thousands $$$ on lathe that sits most of the time. They OK a $1000 spending for it. I use to work on larger, quality, precision Hardinge lathes, this is a step down for me. Julius I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 Out of the frying pan and into the fire. |
#15
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On 27 Sep 2005 04:50:51 GMT, D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:H82dnYrEVO7rBaXeRVn- : This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. Hourly workers still have costs. Probably even higher than I estimated. Wasted time is wasted money. The more money the company makes the better off you and they are. Unless they get paid for engineering time, every non production employee's salary is a burden on the production workers hourly cost. Your time is the only thing that can be charged for besides raw materials. The cost of your time includes the cost of non production salaries. I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET and like. Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts. There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as the BV20 or a newer version. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861 Out of the frying pan and into the fire. Sigh...look around and find yourself a nice older 10-12"Clausing, 11" Logan or even a Southbend. They will set you back a grand to $1500 with some tooling if you look around, and will be 20x the lathe of the lil Chicom ones. They are all manufactured by the Red Dragon Noodle and Machine Tool Collective. Tuesday- Thursday lathes get sold to Grizzley and Jet..the Monday lathes to HF, the Friday lathes to Homier... Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#16
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote:
This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. Then you will want some precision. Buying an Asian import would be pennywise but pound foolish even if nobody's watching the clock. You don't need a big lathe but you do need a good one. Maybe Gunner can find you a Hardinge. |
#17
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We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific,
recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's $90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year. Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure, but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are not a bad investment for simple tasks. Don Foreman wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote: This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. No one hold a clock over any one heads. Then you will want some precision. Buying an Asian import would be pennywise but pound foolish even if nobody's watching the clock. You don't need a big lathe but you do need a good one. Maybe Gunner can find you a Hardinge. |
#18
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Tim Killian wrote:
We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific, recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's $90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year. Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure, but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are not a bad investment for simple tasks. Well put, Tim Someone else posted some info about 9x20s from Samuel Machinery. They also show a 10x27 for $995 with lots of features and extras. I'd be pretty interested in that. None of the links pan out, and I did not find a website. Rex |
#19
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On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:42:48 -0600, Tim Killian
wrote: We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific, recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's $90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year. Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure, but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are not a bad investment for simple tasks. Spares for import machines, two years after purchase? ---- Depends on required tolerances. I would think pins for fixtures would need to be pretty accurate. Accuracy comes, in part, from rigidity. You can work to .0005 tolerance on a springy lathe, but it takes a lot longer. Might be better to use stock sizes of ground rod or dowel pins and ream the holes; then you don't need a lathe at all except perhaps to cut stock to length and chamfer the ends. Check out the Sheldon Gunner noted in another post. |
#20
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"Rex B" wrote in message
... Someone else posted some info about 9x20s from Samuel Machinery. They also show a 10x27 for $995 with lots of features and extras. I'd be pretty interested in that. None of the links pan out, and I did not find a website. Of such hopes, dreams, and customer enthusiasm are Internet dollars made. It makes you wonder, though. There's obviously a market for good, small, solid $1500 lathes, and $2500 mills. Instead, we have the $1k junk, or the $5000 overflow-your-garage-in-a-heartbeat product lines. More dollars just buys larger junk, not small, usable machines. What's a home machinist to do? You can try to build it yourself, of course, but traditional construction -- heavy iron, ground ways -- is not something you can do easily, even starting with non-junk machines to cut them. Linear motion components are eBay or other questionable sources, or astronomical, again with nothing in between. Actually, that's where I'm starting to look. What's wrong with just bolting a 10" angle-lock vise or rotary table, with no traditional table, to linear motion guides? The Kurt vise alone blows the budget, but who's counting? |
#21
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Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:42:48 -0600, Tim Killian wrote: We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific, recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's $90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year. Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure, but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are not a bad investment for simple tasks. Spares for import machines, two years after purchase? I have a 10" Enco made in 1986. Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found. But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago. Rex B |
#22
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I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found. But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago. While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the idea that parts are available for all old american made machines. I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore. Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack to spend on a machine that is only worth 750! Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost more than the machine is worth. chuck |
#23
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Chuck Sherwood wrote:
I have a 10" Enco made in 1986. Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found. But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago. While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the idea that parts are available for all old american made machines. I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore. Sure, some are more equal than others. Part of my problem is that the gear is a non-standard pitch, so I (so far) have not been able to buy a standard spur gear and fit it. For an Atlas last year with the exact same problem, that's what I did. And that gear was not available from Clausing. Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack to spend on a machine that is only worth 750! Shame on you. A length of Acme rod for that lathe should run about $25. Fitting it to the lathe can be done without a leadscrew Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost more than the machine is worth. There are alternative ways to solve the Clausing VS pulley issue, as I (vaguely) recall). But basically that is comparing an industrial machine to a consumer machine. I don't recall a Chinese lathe with a mechanical VS arrangement. |
#24
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote:
This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures. Perhaps a jewler's lathe? IIRC Gunner had one ..... -- Cliff |
#25
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#26
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According to Chuck Sherwood :
I have a 10" Enco made in 1986. Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found. But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago. While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the idea that parts are available for all old american made machines. I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer available. I can testify that some consumable parts (the kind which break when you do something stupid) are still being made. I managed to do a particular something stupid with my 12x24" Clausing 5418 more than once. The previous time, when I had to order the replacement part, it was not too expensive (as such things go), but they mentioned that it was the last one in stock. The next time (most recent), I damaged that same part, I called them up *hoping* that they had made more -- and they had -- but the cost had more than doubled. It was two gears on a common shaft -- all one casting. They had to find someone to do a quality casting, and then do the machining to put the gear teeth onto the new gear. So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to that. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore. What kinds of parts -- the ones which might be lost or damaged in the process of moving the lathe, or the ones which are likely to be worn out or damaged in normal use? Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack to spend on a machine that is only worth 750! Perhaps so -- but it beats buying another 12" Atlas (perhaps also with a worn out leadscrew) for the $750.00 -- if you can find it when you need it. Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost more than the machine is worth. The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should not need replacing. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#27
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"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message ... I have a 10" Enco made in 1986. Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found. But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago. While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the idea that parts are available for all old american made machines. I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore. Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack to spend on a machine that is only worth 750! Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost more than the machine is worth. I'm the guilty party in this last comment. Should have checked the lathe out in more detail and would almost certainly have gotten a better deal, or more likely walked away from it. In retrospect, though, it turned out to be a decent deal. Even with the unexpected $700 repair the total cost came to about what seemed to be the going rate for this lathe at the time and it's been a pleasure to use in the 5 years or so since then. Clausing part prices can be a little hard to fathom. Some things are only a few bucks, while others are through the roof. For example a set of 4 gears for the 8530 or 8540 rapid feed handle is around $150 or so, which seems pretty reasonable to me. An X-axis lead screw for the same two mills is $1300+, though, which does seem a bit high, at least to those of us for whom this is just a hobby. For a production it's just a cost of doing business and probably much cheaper than the time it would take to find a comparable used tool with it's own set of problems. Mike |
#28
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... snip So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to that. Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my 5914 TS was available a few years back around $50 for both. snip The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should not need replacing. And what was worse in my particular case was that there was evidence that the pulley had been damaged twice by a previous owner failing to replace that Delrin sleeve. Disassembly revealed that there were two keyways, one having been machined 90° from the first, and both were sheared off. The sleeve had been replaced by what looked like a piece of bored out polyethylene rod. Oddly enough the lathe was in otherwise good mechanical shape, especially the flame hardened ways. Mike |
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D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:sPmdncTcXeveS6XeRVn- : Here, the small lathe is not used for production, more like assist. I'm grinding crystals for lasers on CNC mills, that's what pays for my salary. Let me know if you ever need a CNC grinder. *We need a good cylindrical grinder for grinding round parts, ceramics and crystals to close tolarences, .0001-.0002, ID/OD! Owner thought he can do it on CNC mills, BS! .0001-2" tollarences? Ouch! Other day I was drilling some crystals with dimond drill in the center and programd the Z feed to very slow .01mm/Min, machine gave me an alarm, "Error in the program"! )o: It took the .05mm/Min feed, but actual feed was .5-6 mm/M, could not move slower than that. Any way, I'm settled for the LathMaster 8x14 Mini Lathe for $695+$159SHP as kick around lathe in the shop. Read good reviews about it. Same horse PW as the 9x20, same cross travel, shorter bed. I couldn't get hold of the Samuel Machinery company, they market the CH-350 and BV-20 bench lathes, heard good things about these lathes, overal better than the Chines made. JS |
#30
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"D Murphy" wrote in message ... szaki wrote in news:sPmdncTcXeveS6XeRVn- : Here, the small lathe is not used for production, more like assist. I'm grinding crystals for lasers on CNC mills, that's what pays for my salary. Let me know if you ever need a CNC grinder. Amazingly, cnc mills like Fadal and hAAS are frequently used for grinding quartz. Use of largish diameter tooling usually giving the proper surface speed.... http://www.tosohquartz.com/factory.html ( Judging from the photos, someone in their "it dept" REALLY likes the colors blue and pink ) -- SVL |
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On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 01:15:12 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote: http://www.tosohquartz.com/factory.html ( Judging from the photos, someone in their "it dept" REALLY likes the colors blue and pink ) I'd guess the photographer & marketing guys. Hot pink highlites may sell science stuff ... it's used in many glossy annual reports too IIRC. -- Cliff |
#32
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According to Mike Henry :
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... snip So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to that. Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my 5914 TS was available a few years back around $50 for both. I called them about three years ago, with the part number from the exploded drawings and was unable to get one. I'm not sure, but we may have somewhat different versions. I've seen some with an eccentric rod going parallel to the ways and a lever at the rear under and curving up to behind the handwheel. Mine, however, is supposed to have a lever coming out the center of the back which splits to either side of the vertical screw coming from the clamp plate. The screw has a nut on the top with a hinged plate connecting it to the lever, and a set of cams formed on the bottom to draw the screw up tight when the lever is pushed down. If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514, and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called "Wrench", FWIW. :-) snip The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should not need replacing. And what was worse in my particular case was that there was evidence that the pulley had been damaged twice by a previous owner failing to replace that Delrin sleeve. Ouch! Disassembly revealed that there were two keyways, one having been machined 90° from the first, and both were sheared off. The sleeve had been replaced by what looked like a piece of bored out polyethylene rod. Oddly enough the lathe was in otherwise good mechanical shape, especially the flame hardened ways. The only real problems with mine as received were the seriously worn cross-feed leadscrew and nut, and the missing tooth on the pinion gear on the bed turret. Both were easy to get. And for the worn leadscrew -- there were provisions for measuring the cross-slide motion with a 0-1" (or even a 0-2" or 0-3") dial indicator so you could do without the fix for a long time. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#33
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... According to Mike Henry : "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... snip So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to that. Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my 5914 TS was available a few years back around $50 for both. I called them about three years ago, with the part number from the exploded drawings and was unable to get one. I'm not sure, but we may have somewhat different versions. I've seen some with an eccentric rod going parallel to the ways and a lever at the rear under and curving up to behind the handwheel. Mine, however, is supposed to have a lever coming out the center of the back which splits to either side of the vertical screw coming from the clamp plate. The screw has a nut on the top with a hinged plate connecting it to the lever, and a set of cams formed on the bottom to draw the screw up tight when the lever is pushed down. If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514, and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called "Wrench", FWIW. :-) Alas, it appears that your info may still be correct as there are no entries for DL-510 or DL 514 parts in the Clausing parts list that I have. It dates from May 2004 so things may have changed.but it's unlikely since those two parts probably don't need replacing often enough to justify re-stocking. FWIW, there are a bunch of DL-### parts in the list (in case that is a common part prefix for your 5814). On the 5914, the handle is a doglegged piece of rod, threaded on one end for the handle. The other end slips into a cross hole in the cam shaft and is locked into position with a woodruff key and set screw. Sounds like the 5914 TS is a bit different than your 5814, but email me if you'd like the parts diagram. for the 5914 TS or the 2004 parts list. snip |
#34
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According to Mike Henry :
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514, and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called "Wrench", FWIW. :-) Alas, it appears that your info may still be correct as there are no entries for DL-510 or DL 514 parts in the Clausing parts list that I have. It dates from May 2004 so things may have changed.but it's unlikely since those two parts probably don't need replacing often enough to justify re-stocking. Not much different from my parts list, which dates back to April 1998. :-) Agreed about the re-stocking question. Those parts don't fail in service -- they just get lost when the lathe is sold. :-( FWIW, there are a bunch of DL-### parts in the list (in case that is a common part prefix for your 5814). For some parts of it, yes. On the 5914, the handle is a doglegged piece of rod, threaded on one end for the handle. The other end slips into a cross hole in the cam shaft and is locked into position with a woodruff key and set screw. Sounds like the 5914 TS is a bit different than your 5814, but email me if you'd like the parts diagram. for the 5914 TS or the 2004 parts list. I think that what I should do is keep my eyes open for a 5914 TS, assuming that the bed is the same. Is yours fitted with the MT-3 socket? Thanks, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#35
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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... snip I think that what I should do is keep my eyes open for a 5914 TS, assuming that the bed is the same. Is yours fitted with the MT-3 socket? Yep, it has a MT-3 socket. I thought that a 5914 TS closed recently on Ebay with no bids but can't find it now, if it existed. Clausing might be able to supply you prints for your missing parts if you'd like to make your own. Mike |
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