Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Cliff
 
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Default Small lathes, like JET BD-920N

On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn-
:

My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small
parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure
how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns
into crap later!


Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the
factory.

A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material?
Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of
tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work
to be done?

You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality.


Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking

HTH
--
Cliff
  #2   Report Post  
Tim Killian
 
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The venerable BD920 is not crap, but it isn't heavy iron either. For the
price, you won't find anything better that can be easily moved or is
less than 40 years old. Just don't expect to take 1/4" cuts from
titanium bar stock ;-)

Check around for the best pricing as all of these lathes are made in the
same Chinese factories. For example, Enco was running a special with
free freight on their BD920 clone. It's gray instead of white, but it
beat the Jet price by hundreds of dollars.

Cliff wrote:
On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote:


szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn-
:


My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small
parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure
how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns
into crap later!


Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the
factory.

A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material?
Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind of
tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of I.D. work
to be done?

You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality.



Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking

HTH

  #3   Report Post  
Proctologically Violated©®
 
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Default

Small used SB lathes are pretty common; usually belt driven, some w/ snap
handle 5C collet closers--$2500 asking, from dealers, proly a lot less
elsewhere. Also proly a lot heavier than Jets, et al.
What I've done is "put the word out" or hung Lathe Wanted signs at the
counter of my local machine shop supplier. They are (or should be) happy to
do it, cuz they know you'll be coming back for all the stuff you'll need to
run it. Can find some nice stuff this way.

I myself got a used 13" Enco, that the previous owner did a hellified job of
fixing up internally, w/ Aloris tooling, DRO, cam lock chucks, snap handle
5C--cain't hardly work on "regular" Clausing Colchesters, Southbends
anymore, I'm so spoiled.
But indeed he put a lot of effort into making really nice.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Scott" wrote in message
...
"szaki" wrote in message
...

My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small
parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure
how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns
into crap later!



http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/Je...%20DRIVE%20BEN
CH%20LATHE
Any one has experiance working with the JET lathe?
Is there other brands out there for the same price range?
Thanks, Julius


I worked in a shop that had one for just that reason.

We put an AXA toolpost on it, and worked it for years doing little stuff
and
onesy twoseys.

It wont hog anything, and you can not disengage the halfnut during a
thread,
you have stop the spindle and reverse it to the start, and go again.

For anything real, they are going to have to spend money and buy a South
Bend.

http://www.southbendlathe.com/eng10.htm

http://www.southbendlathe.com/tool10.htm




  #4   Report Post  
Don Foreman
 
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Default

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:22:59 -0400, Cliff wrote:


My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of small
parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm not sure
how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something that turns
into crap later!


Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the
factory.


All is relative. A lot of useful stuff can be made on a
not-very-precise inexpensive lathe. It soundly beats a drillpress and
a file. A precision machinist might regard it as "crap" compared to
a better machine, but not all useful things need be made to even
..002" tolerance, much less tenths. I very rarely work to tolerance
closer than .001". It simply isn't necessary for many useful things.

  #5   Report Post  
Cliff
 
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:17:04 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Small used SB lathes are pretty common; usually belt driven, some w/ snap
handle 5C collet closers--$2500 asking, from dealers, proly a lot less
elsewhere. Also proly a lot heavier than Jets, et al.
What I've done is "put the word out" or hung Lathe Wanted signs at the
counter of my local machine shop supplier. They are (or should be) happy to
do it, cuz they know you'll be coming back for all the stuff you'll need to
run it. Can find some nice stuff this way.

I myself got a used 13" Enco, that the previous owner did a hellified job of
fixing up internally, w/ Aloris tooling, DRO, cam lock chucks, snap handle
5C--cain't hardly work on "regular" Clausing Colchesters, Southbends
anymore, I'm so spoiled.
But indeed he put a lot of effort into making really nice.


This is from the "FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking"
(for those that don't know if it):
[
The FAQ (Frequently Asked/Answered Questions) for
rec.crafts.metalworking is available at:
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal
================================================== ================
Some other, very useful resources for readers of this group include:
================================================== ================
Logan Lathe Owners Group:
Yahoo Group for Logan Lathe Owners
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lathe-list/
================================================== ================
South Bend Lathe Owners Group:
Yahoo Group for South Bend Lathe Owners
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/
================================================== ================
]

SNIP
--
Cliff



  #6   Report Post  
Bill Janssen
 
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Default

Tim Killian wrote:

The venerable BD920 is not crap, but it isn't heavy iron either. For
the price, you won't find anything better that can be easily moved or
is less than 40 years old. Just don't expect to take 1/4" cuts from
titanium bar stock ;-)

Check around for the best pricing as all of these lathes are made in
the same Chinese factories. For example, Enco was running a special
with free freight on their BD920 clone. It's gray instead of white,
but it beat the Jet price by hundreds of dollars.

My Jet 9X20 has a 1 1/2 x 8 thread for the chuck. Don't know if you think
that is important. Other 9X20 have a Metric thread.

Bill K7NOM

Cliff wrote:

On 25 Sep 2005 22:49:48 GMT, D Murphy wrote:


szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn-
:


My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of
small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm
not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand
something that turns into crap later!


Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from
the factory.

A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material?
Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind
of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of
I.D. work to be done?

You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality.




Crossposted to rec.crafts.metalworking

HTH


  #7   Report Post  
D Murphy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

szaki wrote in
news
D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn-
:


My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of
small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm
not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something
that turns into crap later!



Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the
factory.

A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material?
Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind
of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of
I.D. work to be done?

You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality.


*One application is turning Machinable Mica ceramics, 1" or less dia.
So no heavy cuts or production, small metal parts, brass, aluminum,
steal, bolts, nuts etc... I guess!
We had a small hobby lathe, it's crap now, all worn out. JET lathe
would be most likely a big improvement over the small $300 crappy
hobby lathe. Julius


Well it might be OK for something like that but I doubt it. If you were
to spend 50% more time on that lathe trying to get something done, the
math is pretty easy. Lets say you use it 4 hours/week. A better lathe can
get it done in 3. So you save an hour x say $20.00/hr. x 50 weeks x 5
years = $5,000.00. 20 bucks an hour is probably low all things
considered. A DRO will easily save that hour. A heavier variable speed
machine, with a quick change tool post will probably save another.

While you may just be doing some odds and ends and this and that, it all
adds up. Then what is the cost to the company if the lathe breaks and you
can't get a job done in time?

I doubt that the JET will hold up as well as a better more expensive
brand, so there is the cost of maintenance and sooner replacement to
consider as well.

What if the work load changes and you begin using the lathe 20 hours/week
or full time? Are they not trying to grow the business? Over five years
time spending $6000.00 more amounts to less than $5.00 per day. The
question is, can a good lathe save you that much money per day? I'll bet
the guy that owns the place spends more than that on lunch every day. If
the company is profitable, the owner can write off the depreciation as
well. So the real cost of a more expensive machine is a lot less, when
all things are considered.

If I were looking for a hobby lathe to stick in my garage, I might give
it a go. I would never buy one as an integral part of my business. I
wouldn't want a customer to see it in my shop for one. Not when you can
walk into Menards and buy the same machine off the floor. I'd sooner find
a used industrial machine if I were that hard up for cash. But that's
just my opinion, YMMV.


--

Dan

  #9   Report Post  
szaki
 
Posts: n/a
Default

D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in
news

D Murphy wrote:

szaki wrote in news:UtSdnZl8Z84fiqreRVn-
:



My company is looking for a small lathe for occasional turning of
small parts. I found this JET bench lathe for $1100-$1200, but I'm
not sure how good is the quality. I don't want to recomand something
that turns into crap later!


Don't worry. It won't turn into crap, it starts out that way from the
factory.

A little more info on what you're doing would be helpful. Material?
Diameter x lengths? Bar, forging, casting or headed parts? What kind
of tolerances? Quantities? Is it just turning? Or is there a lot of
I.D. work to be done?

You get what you pay for, there's no escaping that reality.



*One application is turning Machinable Mica ceramics, 1" or less dia.
So no heavy cuts or production, small metal parts, brass, aluminum,
steal, bolts, nuts etc... I guess!
We had a small hobby lathe, it's crap now, all worn out. JET lathe
would be most likely a big improvement over the small $300 crappy
hobby lathe. Julius



Well it might be OK for something like that but I doubt it. If you were
to spend 50% more time on that lathe trying to get something done, the
math is pretty easy. Lets say you use it 4 hours/week. A better lathe can
get it done in 3. So you save an hour x say $20.00/hr. x 50 weeks x 5
years = $5,000.00. 20 bucks an hour is probably low all things
considered. A DRO will easily save that hour. A heavier variable speed
machine, with a quick change tool post will probably save another.

While you may just be doing some odds and ends and this and that, it all
adds up. Then what is the cost to the company if the lathe breaks and you
can't get a job done in time?

I doubt that the JET will hold up as well as a better more expensive
brand, so there is the cost of maintenance and sooner replacement to
consider as well.

What if the work load changes and you begin using the lathe 20 hours/week
or full time? Are they not trying to grow the business? Over five years
time spending $6000.00 more amounts to less than $5.00 per day. The
question is, can a good lathe save you that much money per day? I'll bet
the guy that owns the place spends more than that on lunch every day. If
the company is profitable, the owner can write off the depreciation as
well. So the real cost of a more expensive machine is a lot less, when
all things are considered.

If I were looking for a hobby lathe to stick in my garage, I might give
it a go. I would never buy one as an integral part of my business. I
wouldn't want a customer to see it in my shop for one. Not when you can
walk into Menards and buy the same machine off the floor. I'd sooner find
a used industrial machine if I were that hard up for cash. But that's
just my opinion, YMMV.


This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.
I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET
and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861
JS

  #10   Report Post  
Scott
 
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"szaki" wrote in message
...

This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.
I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET
and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861


Run from Harbor Freight like a scalded dog.




  #11   Report Post  
Tim Killian
 
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It is the same lathe as the Jet BD920. Both have speed reduction gears
and both use a belt drive from the motor. Neither one is made in Taiwan.

szaki wrote:

This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.
I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET
and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861
JS

  #13   Report Post  
szaki
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tim Killian wrote:
It is the same lathe as the Jet BD920. Both have speed reduction gears
and both use a belt drive from the motor. Neither one is made in Taiwan.

szaki wrote:

This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.
I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the
JET and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861
JS


Gee, these companies! Offer the same crap in different colors.
Who sells BV20 lathes?
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe..._9x20.htm#BV20

If you need the 20" between centers for working on more that

Contender barrels, then you might look into Samuel Machinery's BV20E-L.
After asking Hank and Tom, of Samuel Machinery, about it's quality, they
assured me it had none of the design problems of the normal offerings
of 9x20, being of a completely different design, and much better
manufacturing quality. Tom did say that, in his opinion, it wasn't as
nice a machine as their CH-350, but was far above the Chinese 9x20's.

It sells for $895 with all of the accessories the other 9x20's have...
Follower rest, steady rest, faceplate, 4-jaw chuck, etc. I'm not aware
of anybody that owns one of these, but a couple of members saw it at the
Cabin Fever show and might be the best source to answer questions on
finer details.

Julius

  #14   Report Post  
szaki
 
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Default

D Murphy wrote:
szaki wrote in news:H82dnYrEVO7rBaXeRVn-
:


This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.



Hourly workers still have costs. Probably even higher than I estimated.
Wasted time is wasted money. The more money the company makes the better
off you and they are.

Unless they get paid for engineering time, every non production employee's
salary is a burden on the production workers hourly cost. Your time is the
only thing that can be charged for besides raw materials. The cost of your
time includes the cost of non production salaries.


I understand, I use to work in job shops, where every thing was logged,
even the left over or scrap material and setup time too!
Here, the small lathe is not used for production, more like assist.
I'm grinding crystals for lasers on CNC mills, that's what pays for my
salary. Some times have to build a fixture and need a lathe to turn
pins, brass centers, small parts, machinable ceramics on the side.
Old hobby lathe is in bad shape and need a new one that's why I'm
looking it the 9x20 lathes.
Company don't want to spend thousands $$$ on lathe that sits most of the
time. They OK a $1000 spending for it.
I use to work on larger, quality, precision Hardinge lathes, this is a
step down for me.
Julius





I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET
and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861


Out of the frying pan and into the fire.


  #15   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 27 Sep 2005 04:50:51 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

szaki wrote in news:H82dnYrEVO7rBaXeRVn-
:

This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.


Hourly workers still have costs. Probably even higher than I estimated.
Wasted time is wasted money. The more money the company makes the better
off you and they are.

Unless they get paid for engineering time, every non production employee's
salary is a burden on the production workers hourly cost. Your time is the
only thing that can be charged for besides raw materials. The cost of your
time includes the cost of non production salaries.

I read some where the BV20 9x20 is a better lathe over all than the JET
and like.
Made in Taiwan has gear head, insteade of belts.
There is a BV 920 sold by Harborfreight, not sure if it's the same as
the BV20 or a newer version.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45861


Out of the frying pan and into the fire.



Sigh...look around and find yourself a nice older 10-12"Clausing, 11"
Logan or even a Southbend. They will set you back a grand to $1500
with some tooling if you look around, and will be 20x the lathe of the
lil Chicom ones.

They are all manufactured by the Red Dragon Noodle and Machine Tool
Collective. Tuesday- Thursday lathes get sold to Grizzley and
Jet..the Monday lathes to HF, the Friday lathes to Homier...

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


  #16   Report Post  
Don Foreman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote:


This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.


Then you will want some precision. Buying an Asian import would be
pennywise but pound foolish even if nobody's watching the clock.
You don't need a big lathe but you do need a good one.

Maybe Gunner can find you a Hardinge.



  #17   Report Post  
Tim Killian
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific,
recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a
simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper
average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they
turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at
that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are
using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's
$90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for
labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year.

Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure,
but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install
one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the
price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually
outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are
not a bad investment for simple tasks.


Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote:



This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.
No one hold a clock over any one heads.



Then you will want some precision. Buying an Asian import would be
pennywise but pound foolish even if nobody's watching the clock.
You don't need a big lathe but you do need a good one.

Maybe Gunner can find you a Hardinge.



  #18   Report Post  
Rex B
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tim Killian wrote:
We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific,
recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a
simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper
average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they
turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at
that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are
using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's
$90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for
labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year.

Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure,
but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install
one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the
price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually
outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are
not a bad investment for simple tasks.


Well put, Tim

Someone else posted some info about 9x20s from Samuel Machinery.
They also show a 10x27 for $995 with lots of features and extras. I'd be
pretty interested in that. None of the links pan out, and I did not find
a website.

Rex
  #19   Report Post  
Don Foreman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:42:48 -0600, Tim Killian
wrote:

We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific,
recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a
simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper
average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they
turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at
that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are
using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's
$90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for
labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year.

Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure,
but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install
one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the
price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually
outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are
not a bad investment for simple tasks.




Spares for import machines, two years after purchase?
----
Depends on required tolerances. I would think pins for fixtures
would need to be pretty accurate. Accuracy comes, in part, from
rigidity. You can work to .0005 tolerance on a springy lathe, but
it takes a lot longer.

Might be better to use stock sizes of ground rod or dowel pins and
ream the holes; then you don't need a lathe at all except perhaps to
cut stock to length and chamfer the ends.

Check out the Sheldon Gunner noted in another post.

  #20   Report Post  
Mike Young
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Someone else posted some info about 9x20s from Samuel Machinery.
They also show a 10x27 for $995 with lots of features and extras. I'd be
pretty interested in that. None of the links pan out, and I did not find a
website.


Of such hopes, dreams, and customer enthusiasm are Internet dollars made. It
makes you wonder, though. There's obviously a market for good, small, solid
$1500 lathes, and $2500 mills. Instead, we have the $1k junk, or the $5000
overflow-your-garage-in-a-heartbeat product lines. More dollars just buys
larger junk, not small, usable machines. What's a home machinist to do? You
can try to build it yourself, of course, but traditional construction --
heavy iron, ground ways -- is not something you can do easily, even starting
with non-junk machines to cut them. Linear motion components are eBay or
other questionable sources, or astronomical, again with nothing in between.
Actually, that's where I'm starting to look. What's wrong with just bolting
a 10" angle-lock vise or rotary table, with no traditional table, to linear
motion guides? The Kurt vise alone blows the budget, but who's counting?



  #21   Report Post  
Rex B
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:42:48 -0600, Tim Killian
wrote:


We recently bought one of the 9x20 Chinese lathes for a specific,
recurring job that involves turning down the OD of HRS rings. It's a
simple, one tool task that requires a couple of passes to get the proper
average OD. We used to send these parts to an outside shop where they
turned them for us at $10 each. They upped their price to $18, and at
that point we decided to bring the work inside. The BD920 clone we are
using cost under $1K and it does just as good a job as the other shop's
$90K turning center on these simple parts. Even with the added cost for
labor, our machine will pay for itself in less than a year.

Would a 30 year old SB or Hardinge for $1500 be a better lathe? Sure,
but when you factor in the cost to find, check out, deliver, and install
one of these old machines, the final price is more like $5K. And the
price of spares (if you can find them) for those dinosaurs is usually
outrageous as well. In raw dollars and cents terms, the $1K lathes are
not a bad investment for simple tasks.





Spares for import machines, two years after purchase?


I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found.
But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago.

Rex B
  #22   Report Post  
Chuck Sherwood
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found.
But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago.


While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the
idea that parts are available for all old american made machines.
I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the
manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in
inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer
available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because
a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore.

Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be
very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew
for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack
to spend on a machine that is only worth 750!

Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS
pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost
more than the machine is worth.

chuck
  #23   Report Post  
Rex B
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found.
But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago.



While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the
idea that parts are available for all old american made machines.
I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the
manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in
inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer
available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because
a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore.


Sure, some are more equal than others.
Part of my problem is that the gear is a non-standard pitch, so I (so
far) have not been able to buy a standard spur gear and fit it. For an
Atlas last year with the exact same problem, that's what I did. And that
gear was not available from Clausing.

Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be
very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew
for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack
to spend on a machine that is only worth 750!


Shame on you. A length of Acme rod for that lathe should run about $25.
Fitting it to the lathe can be done without a leadscrew

Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS
pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost
more than the machine is worth.


There are alternative ways to solve the Clausing VS pulley issue, as I
(vaguely) recall). But basically that is comparing an industrial machine
to a consumer machine. I don't recall a Chinese lathe with a mechanical
VS arrangement.
  #24   Report Post  
Cliff
 
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Default

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:17 -0700, szaki wrote:


This is not a job shop, we machine crystals for lasers! We just need a
lathe to turn some pins and other parts for fixtures.


Perhaps a jewler's lathe?
IIRC Gunner had one .....
--
Cliff
  #26   Report Post  
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default

According to Chuck Sherwood :
I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found.
But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago.


While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the
idea that parts are available for all old american made machines.
I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the
manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in
inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer
available.


I can testify that some consumable parts (the kind which break
when you do something stupid) are still being made. I managed to do a
particular something stupid with my 12x24" Clausing 5418 more than once.

The previous time, when I had to order the replacement part, it was not
too expensive (as such things go), but they mentioned that it was the
last one in stock.

The next time (most recent), I damaged that same part, I called
them up *hoping* that they had made more -- and they had -- but the cost
had more than doubled. It was two gears on a common shaft -- all one
casting. They had to find someone to do a quality casting, and then do
the machining to put the gear teeth onto the new gear.

So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones
which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are
things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My
tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a
spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to
that.

I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because
a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore.


What kinds of parts -- the ones which might be lost or damaged
in the process of moving the lathe, or the ones which are likely to be
worn out or damaged in normal use?

Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be
very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew
for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack
to spend on a machine that is only worth 750!


Perhaps so -- but it beats buying another 12" Atlas (perhaps
also with a worn out leadscrew) for the $750.00 -- if you can find it
when you need it.

Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS
pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost
more than the machine is worth.


The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners
maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin
sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is
damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should
not need replacing.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #27   Report Post  
Mike Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
I have a 10" Enco made in 1986.
Can't get QC gears for it from Enco, or anywhere else that I've found.
But I can get anything I need for my 9" Logan, made 50 years ago.


While that may be true of logan, I don't think people should get the
idea that parts are available for all old american made machines.
I have a 25 year old Rockwell. Can't buy a single part from the
manufacture. I think that even clausing is only selling what is in
inventory and people here have commented that many parts are no longer
available. I'm sure that not all clausing parts are available because
a friend of mine has tried to buy some and they don't have em anymore.

Another point is that while some parts are available, they can be
very expensive. For example I paid 250 dollars for a leadscrew
for a 12 inch atlas lathe several years ago. That a lot of jack
to spend on a machine that is only worth 750!

Another reference point. My friend mike paid over 700 for a VS
pulley from clausing. Another example of a few parts can cost
more than the machine is worth.


I'm the guilty party in this last comment. Should have checked the lathe
out in more detail and would almost certainly have gotten a better deal, or
more likely walked away from it. In retrospect, though, it turned out to be
a decent deal. Even with the unexpected $700 repair the total cost came to
about what seemed to be the going rate for this lathe at the time and it's
been a pleasure to use in the 5 years or so since then.

Clausing part prices can be a little hard to fathom. Some things are only a
few bucks, while others are through the roof. For example a set of 4 gears
for the 8530 or 8540 rapid feed handle is around $150 or so, which seems
pretty reasonable to me. An X-axis lead screw for the same two mills is
$1300+, though, which does seem a bit high, at least to those of us for whom
this is just a hobby. For a production it's just a cost of doing business
and probably much cheaper than the time it would take to find a comparable
used tool with it's own set of problems.

Mike


  #28   Report Post  
Mike Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip
So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones
which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are
things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My
tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a
spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to
that.


Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my 5914
TS was available a few years back around $50 for both.

snip

The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners
maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin
sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is
damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should
not need replacing.


And what was worse in my particular case was that there was evidence that
the pulley had been damaged twice by a previous owner failing to replace
that Delrin sleeve. Disassembly revealed that there were two keyways, one
having been machined 90° from the first, and both were sheared off. The
sleeve had been replaced by what looked like a piece of bored out
polyethylene rod. Oddly enough the lathe was in otherwise good mechanical
shape, especially the flame hardened ways.

Mike


  #31   Report Post  
Cliff
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 01:15:12 -0700, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

http://www.tosohquartz.com/factory.html

( Judging from the photos, someone in their "it dept" REALLY likes the
colors blue and pink )


I'd guess the photographer & marketing guys.
Hot pink highlites may sell science stuff ... it's
used in many glossy annual reports too IIRC.
--
Cliff
  #32   Report Post  
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default

According to Mike Henry :

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip
So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones
which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are
things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My
tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and a
spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to
that.


Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my 5914
TS was available a few years back around $50 for both.


I called them about three years ago, with the part number from
the exploded drawings and was unable to get one. I'm not sure, but we
may have somewhat different versions. I've seen some with an eccentric
rod going parallel to the ways and a lever at the rear under and curving
up to behind the handwheel.

Mine, however, is supposed to have a lever coming out the center
of the back which splits to either side of the vertical screw coming
from the clamp plate. The screw has a nut on the top with a hinged
plate connecting it to the lever, and a set of cams formed on the bottom
to draw the screw up tight when the lever is pushed down.

If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder
whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is
supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514,
and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called
"Wrench", FWIW. :-)

snip

The VS pulley *should* last nearly forever -- if the owners
maintained it properly -- replacing the (relatively inexpensive) Delrin
sleeves and keys when they wear out. If they don't, then the lathe is
damaged by abuse, and you then have to replace something which should
not need replacing.


And what was worse in my particular case was that there was evidence that
the pulley had been damaged twice by a previous owner failing to replace
that Delrin sleeve.


Ouch!

Disassembly revealed that there were two keyways, one
having been machined 90° from the first, and both were sheared off. The
sleeve had been replaced by what looked like a piece of bored out
polyethylene rod. Oddly enough the lathe was in otherwise good mechanical
shape, especially the flame hardened ways.


The only real problems with mine as received were the seriously
worn cross-feed leadscrew and nut, and the missing tooth on the pinion
gear on the bed turret. Both were easy to get.

And for the worn leadscrew -- there were provisions for
measuring the cross-slide motion with a 0-1" (or even a 0-2" or 0-3")
dial indicator so you could do without the fix for a long time. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #33   Report Post  
Mike Henry
 
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Default


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
According to Mike Henry :

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip
So -- you can still get parts from Clausing -- at least the ones
which you are likely to damage or wear out. What you *can't* get are
things like the locking lever for the tailstock (to the bed). My
tailstock (from eBay) came without it, so I've had to use a wrench and
a
spacer -- at least until I get around to making my own equivalent to
that.


Have you checked on that lately? The cam-shaft handle and knob for my
5914
TS was available a few years back around $50 for both.


I called them about three years ago, with the part number from
the exploded drawings and was unable to get one. I'm not sure, but we
may have somewhat different versions. I've seen some with an eccentric
rod going parallel to the ways and a lever at the rear under and curving
up to behind the handwheel.

Mine, however, is supposed to have a lever coming out the center
of the back which splits to either side of the vertical screw coming
from the clamp plate. The screw has a nut on the top with a hinged
plate connecting it to the lever, and a set of cams formed on the bottom
to draw the screw up tight when the lever is pushed down.

If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder
whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is
supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514,
and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called
"Wrench", FWIW. :-)


Alas, it appears that your info may still be correct as there are no entries
for DL-510 or DL 514 parts in the Clausing parts list that I have. It dates
from May 2004 so things may have changed.but it's unlikely since those two
parts probably don't need replacing often enough to justify re-stocking.
FWIW, there are a bunch of DL-### parts in the list (in case that is a
common part prefix for your 5814).

On the 5914, the handle is a doglegged piece of rod, threaded on one end for
the handle. The other end slips into a cross hole in the cam shaft and is
locked into position with a woodruff key and set screw. Sounds like the
5914 TS is a bit different than your 5814, but email me if you'd like the
parts diagram. for the 5914 TS or the 2004 parts list.


snip



  #34   Report Post  
DoN. Nichols
 
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Default

According to Mike Henry :

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...


[ ... ]

If yours is like this, then I need to try again. I wonder
whether the part numbers differ between the 5814 and the 5914. Mine is
supposed to be part number DL-510, with the hinged plate being DL-514,
and DL-515 being the pin on which the plate pivots. The lever is called
"Wrench", FWIW. :-)


Alas, it appears that your info may still be correct as there are no entries
for DL-510 or DL 514 parts in the Clausing parts list that I have. It dates
from May 2004 so things may have changed.but it's unlikely since those two
parts probably don't need replacing often enough to justify re-stocking.


Not much different from my parts list, which dates back to April
1998. :-)

Agreed about the re-stocking question. Those parts don't fail
in service -- they just get lost when the lathe is sold. :-(

FWIW, there are a bunch of DL-### parts in the list (in case that is a
common part prefix for your 5814).



For some parts of it, yes.

On the 5914, the handle is a doglegged piece of rod, threaded on one end for
the handle. The other end slips into a cross hole in the cam shaft and is
locked into position with a woodruff key and set screw. Sounds like the
5914 TS is a bit different than your 5814, but email me if you'd like the
parts diagram. for the 5914 TS or the 2004 parts list.


I think that what I should do is keep my eyes open for a 5914
TS, assuming that the bed is the same. Is yours fitted with the MT-3
socket?

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #35   Report Post  
Mike Henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip

I think that what I should do is keep my eyes open for a 5914
TS, assuming that the bed is the same. Is yours fitted with the MT-3
socket?


Yep, it has a MT-3 socket. I thought that a 5914 TS closed recently on Ebay
with no bids but can't find it now, if it existed.

Clausing might be able to supply you prints for your missing parts if you'd
like to make your own.

Mike


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