Serious reading, folks!







HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice
test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually
happened!!!

Do you remember?

-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying
to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into
the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers.Thousands of
people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent
on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to
profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old
women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents
who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen
with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss,
but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty
of profiling.

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds along
with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed
of themselves - if they have any such sense.

As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it,
"Stupid is as stupid does."

Come on people wake up!!!
Keep this going. Pass it on to everyone in your address book.
Our Country and our troops need our support!

Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:02:08 -0800, "mp" wrote:

Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.
-----------------
I don't think so the OP's statements are racist at all. I'm a died in
the wool liberal, and the last to condemn a group based on the actions
of a moderately few extremists. What the OP says is historically true.
To take it back even further, the Muslim extremist Jihad against
America began when Israel was formed, and the US became an official
ally. I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

Political correctness has, and is, being taken too far in the airport
screening process. That's my opinion as well.

In article ,
Abe wrote:

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:02:08 -0800, "mp" wrote:

Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.
-----------------
I don't think so the OP's statements are racist at all. I'm a died in
the wool liberal,

Abe, no offense and I am not trying to be grammar/spelling cop here, but
if you really meant 'died' vs 'dyed' it would mean that there wasn't a
compassionate conservative nearby willing to pull you out of the wool
and save your life? G

[snip]
I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

"It is not anti-Semitic to criticize the policies of the state of
Israel." -- Colin Powell

If anybody wants to talk racism, look at the wholesale slaughter of
Palestinians by the Israelis. Sure, there are some real *******s among
the Palestinians, probably in the same ratio as there are some real
*******s calling themselves Neo Nazi Skinheads in the USA.
If you're an Arab, to an Israeli you're scum. THAT is racial profiling.

Funny thing is, that true, devout, educated Jews disagree with the
Zionist policies of the State Of Israel. They don't think that the
return to the Holy Land, as promised by God, was supposed to happen by
man's decision, but by God's grace when He is ready. Many believe that
the Zionists are trying to force God's hand!

The control that Israel has over the neo conservatives in the current
and other administrations is directly proportional to campaign
contrubutions and defense/oil contracts.

What fundamentally is wrong, IMHO, manifests itself by there now being
Blue and Red States. You're either one or the other. I say bull****.

The whole country should be purple! ( Barrack Obama)

This Dutch born and educated dude, who now lives in Canada with a lot of
my family living in the USA, with most of his friends living in the USA
(most ex-military) thinks that too many people are missing the point.....

In my business dealings I have discovered that there are assholes
amongst all races and colours and religions and ages and genders.

In my business dealings I have discovered that there are wonderful
people amongst all races and colours and religions and ages and genders.

It's MY job to sort them out.

Holy ****...look at the time, will ya?

GONE

0?0

Rob

That is an excellent thinking you have on breaking up the poison of "stereotype"!
I wholly (did I spell that right?) agree.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/

"AAvK" wrote in message
news:OnOLd.1671$Tt.1507@fed1read05...

That is an excellent thinking you have on breaking up the poison of
"stereotype"!
I wholly (did I spell that right?) agree.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


Unfortunately, we learn by analogy, and another way of defining that is to
say stereotype.

Are you saying if it looks, walks, quacks, we shouldn't stereotype it as a
duck? Sure would make all experience brand new.

Abe, no offense and I am not trying to be grammar/spelling cop here, but
if you really meant 'died' vs 'dyed' it would mean that there wasn't a
compassionate conservative nearby willing to pull you out of the wool
and save your life? G
Well, it was late. Sorry bout that.

In my business dealings I have discovered that there are assholes
amongst all races and colours and religions and ages and genders.

In my business dealings I have discovered that there are wonderful
people amongst all races and colours and religions and ages and genders.

It's MY job to sort them out.
Could not have said it better myself.

Note crossposting and follow-ups.

I disagree about OP being racist. Instead, he's a religious bigot.

Abe wrote:


I don't think so the OP's statements are racist at all. I'm a died in
the wool liberal, and the last to condemn a group based on the
actions
of a moderately few extremists. What the OP says is historically
true.
To take it back even further, the Muslim extremist Jihad against
America began when Israel was formed, and the US became an official
ally. I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

Political correctness has, and is, being taken too far in the airport
screening process. That's my opinion as well.

What you are missing is the concept of the ability of a test to
discriminate in the objective, rather than the political sense.

How many Muslim men between the ages of 17 and 40 fly on airliners
each year? Twenty, Thirty, Fourty million perhaps? If you use
'Muslim man between the age of 17 and 40' as a screening criterion
you're literally playing a million to one shot. Besides, I
don't think anyone's passport, visa or driver's license is
going to say 'Muslim' on it.

Aside from that, if it is known that security is concentrating
on a particular 'type' then any potential perpetrator will simply
avoid appearing like that type and so will then have a smaller
chance of being caught. Most 'Muslim men between 17 and 40'
could easily pass for Italians, Greeks, Spainards, Armenians,
Cypriots, etc, or some other religious persuation.

In some respects, this is like pre-employment drug screening.
If the testing really has a deterrant effect, then the only
positive tests will be false positives because no drug addicts
will take the test.

--

FF

wrote:


What you are missing is the concept of the ability of a test to
discriminate in the objective, rather than the political sense.

How many Muslim men between the ages of 17 and 40 fly on airliners
each year? Twenty, Thirty, Fourty million perhaps? If you use
'Muslim man between the age of 17 and 40' as a screening criterion
you're literally playing a million to one shot. Besides, I
don't think anyone's passport, visa or driver's license is
going to say 'Muslim' on it.

Aside from that, if it is known that security is concentrating
on a particular 'type' then any potential perpetrator will simply
avoid appearing like that type and so will then have a smaller
chance of being caught. Most 'Muslim men between 17 and 40'
could easily pass for Italians, Greeks, Spainards, Armenians,
Cypriots, etc, or some other religious persuation.

In some respects, this is like pre-employment drug screening.
If the testing really has a deterrant effect, then the only
positive tests will be false positives because no drug addicts
will take the test.


I don't think that racial profiling will go away. The problem as you
point out is that it is a very long shot. The risk and damage to honest
people in society should not be underestimated.

There is a case in Canada where a 'Muslim Canadian citizen, 17 -40 yrs
old', educated and living in Canada with a wife and kids was seized in
NY after returning from Tunisia. He had to stop in NY because if you
fly on a US carrier, you stop in the US on your way back to Canada. He
had to clear US customs, and was detained. There were apparently some
discussions between US and Canadian 'authorities' who branded him a
dangerous terrorist and after holding him without communication for 2
weeks, had him deported to Syria (the country of his birth, he left
when he was 17). In Syria he was put in prison and tortured repeatedly,
confessing all kinds of nonsense.

see http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/

Eventually the Syrians figured out that he didn't really know anything
and sent him back to Canada. There was no evidence against this man, no
trial, no legal rights at all, for a Canadian citizen who was kidnapped
by our governments and sent to a 3rd state for the express purpose of
being tortured. (isn't torture illegal?) He has never been charged
with any offence, even after returning! If the 'authorities' thought he
was so dangerous, why is he walking around Ottawa today? Canadian and
US 'authorities' pointed fingers for awhile, then it died down. After
all, it only happened to a Muslim. The authorities are covering their
behinds, destroying documents and claiming 'national security'.

What have we all lost. What if it happened to you?

On my way back from Boston, I was in the airport. I'd switched to an
earlier flight because my meetings ended early. For some reason at the
counter, the person made a mistake typing in my information and thought
I was someone named (something like) Joe Whiteboy/Srinivanthan (yes, my
boarding pass actually had the slash and the Srinivanthan is accurate)
They kept my passport, and ordered me to take my luggage on a cart to
the side and wait. My luggage was to be CT scanned, all of it, and
special security officials waited with me. After a moment, I looked at
my boarding pass, saw the error and pointed it out to them. They
checked, saw their error, gave me a new boarding pass, my passport, took
my bags for loading and said "have a nice day". No CT scan, no
checking, nothing. Thank God my name is Joe Whiteboy and not
Srinivanthan, or perhaps I'd be in Sri Lanka being tortured.

We are in a war, a ground war, and a war of ideas. We should be
vigilant to ensure that buildings and airplanes don't blow up. That may
require some infringement on rights, but where are the checks and
balances to make sure that innocent people are not harmed? Innocent
until proven guilty in a court of law? LOL. Many non-white citizens in
our countries no longer have that right.

For every one of those horrible acts listed by the OP, I could list
imperialist aggression by us, acts that cost 10 times as many innocent
lives. ( The Isrealis which are really just us on vacation in
Palestine; most Isrealis were European/American/Canadian 2 generations
ago.) Until we start to look at the problem with some balance it will
never be solved. Unfortunately all the OP does is present easy to
handle 'facts' without challenging people to think about why this is
happening. Until we start to look at the problem objectively it will
never be solved.

Joe Whiteboy

Abe wrote:

...the Muslim extremist Jihad against
America began when Israel was formed, and the US became an official
ally.

And by "formed" you mean "stole the land from existing tenants".

I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

And by "...sane and democratic..." you mean a country which believes
it's existence is God's will, their God of course, and unless you
believe in their God you don't get to vote or enjoy full citizenship.

Guess you liked the Taliban too.

The only reason we NEED Israel as an ally is BECAUSE we have Israel as
an ally.

Why is the entire Arab world ****ed of at us? Ask yourself when was the
last time we bombed Tel Aviv for ignoring/violating a U.N. resolution.

In article , Kevin wrote:
Abe wrote:

...the Muslim extremist Jihad against
America began when Israel was formed, and the US became an official
ally.

And by "formed" you mean "stole the land from existing tenants".

Perhaps you mean "reclaimed it from squatters". It evidently has escaped your
notice that there were Jews living in that part of the world more than two
thousand years ago.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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In article ,
says...
Perhaps you mean "reclaimed it from squatters". It evidently has escaped your
notice that there were Jews living in that part of the world more than two
thousand years ago.

Perhaps it has escaped yours that the Indians were living in this part
of the world 10,000 years ago.

When are you moving out?

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Kevin wrote in news:3pjMd.191$ng6.66
@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

....
And by "...sane and democratic..." you mean a country which believes
it's existence is God's will, their God of course, and unless you
believe in their God you don't get to vote or enjoy full citizenship.

Now don't go bringing John Ashcroft into this.

Kevin writes:
And by "formed" you mean "stole the land from existing tenants".

Really, so you obviously don't know that about 50% of Israelis are of
Middle Eastern origin, many having been summarily expelled from the
Arab lands where they had lived for generations.

Also you wouldn't know that there was a continuous Jewish presence in
Israel for thousands of years.
Even in Jerusalem, there has been a Jewish plurality for the past 150
years...

Or that the Holy Land was pretty much a barren wasteland in the
mid-19th century with only a small native Jewish and Arab population
(see Mark Twain's note on his 19th century visit)

Or that most modern day "Palestinians" actually came to the land in
the past 100 years, attracted by the wealth created by the parallel
Jewish immigration.

Or that until 1948, only the Jews were called Palestinians (and
today's "Jerusalem Post" was actually called the "Palestinian
Post"). The native Arabs identified with their brethren throughout the
Middle East and did not want to be called Palestinian

Facts -- they have a way of getting in the way of the truth

And by "...sane and democratic..." you mean a country which believes
it's existence is God's will, their God of course, and unless you
believe in their God you don't get to vote or enjoy full citizenship.


Tell that to the 20% of the country that is Arab and have full voting
rights (though they presumably believe in God).
Tell that to the 80-90% of the Jewish population that is non-religious
and only superficially believe in God in any real sense

And remind me of all the Arab states that even let women let alone
non-Muslims have full citizenship rights.

During the first Gulf War our US soldiers who were saving the Saudi
royalty's butts weren't even allowed to have Christmas services on
Saudi territory.

Guess you liked the Taliban too.
Non-Sequitur

The only reason we NEED Israel as an ally is BECAUSE we have Israel as
an ally.

Non-Sequitur

Why is the entire Arab world ****ed of at us? Ask yourself when was
the last time we bombed Tel Aviv for ignoring/violating a
U.N. resolution.

Because the resolutions against Israel, apart from being completely
biased and racist, are not passed under the article of the UN
requiring forceful compliance. Different resolutions have different
enforcing powers...


But then again you clearly know nothing about the Middle East other
than the bigoted views you hold towards Jews and Israel.

I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

Ah, yes. A true racist state. Brutally oppressive too. Just ask any
Palestinian.

In article , "mp" wrote:
I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

Ah, yes. A true racist state. Brutally oppressive too. Just ask any
Palestinian.

Yes, I'm sure *that* would be an unbiased opinion. Just like yours.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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"mp" wrote in message
...
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.


I thought "Muslim" referred to a religion, not a race. The largest
population of Muslims is in Asia, not the Middle East, so who is the OP
being racist against? You could stretch the definition of "racist" to
religion, I know, but it is a real stretch in this case, IMO.

I think the OP is frustrated with political correctness, but I have a
suspicion that the people in the field doing the work are profiling anyway,
and at least paying lip service to the profiling for political reasons.

dwhite

In article , "Dan White" wrote:

I think the OP is frustrated with political correctness, but I have a
suspicion that the people in the field doing the work are profiling anyway,
and at least paying lip service to the profiling for political reasons.

I certainly hope so.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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I thought "Muslim" referred to a religion, not a race. The largest
population of Muslims is in Asia, not the Middle East, so who is the OP
being racist against? You could stretch the definition of "racist" to
religion, I know, but it is a real stretch in this case, IMO.
------------------
You are quite right. I think the OP really meant to say Muslim
extremists with identifiably middle eastern features.

I thought "Muslim" referred to a religion, not a race. The largest
population of Muslims is in Asia, not the Middle East, so who is the OP
being racist against? You could stretch the definition of "racist" to
religion, I know, but it is a real stretch in this case, IMO.

Even though the OP used the word Muslim, I read his message as referring to
middle eastern Arabs, not Muslim men in general.

Koran Verse 8:12

Don't be deceived by the Muslim apologists in this group. The Koran speaks
for itself.

[8.12] "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make
firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip
of them."

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:53:06 +0100, "no spam"
wrote:

Koran Verse 8:12

Don't be deceived by the Muslim apologists in this group. The Koran speaks
for itself.

[8.12] "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make
firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip
of them."

you can take any written word, especially the bible, and find
something in it to prove whatever point you have at the moment...

The bottom line for me is that there are lugnuts in every race and
religion... and to say that any one religion is good or bad or has
good or bad people in it is a personal opinion, not a fact..

The other choice, of course, is to kill 'em all and let (insert name
of who/what ever you might or might not worship) sort 'em out..




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:53:06 +0100, "no spam"
wrote:

Koran Verse 8:12

Don't be deceived by the Muslim apologists in this group. The Koran speaks
for itself.

[8.12] "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make
firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip
of them."

Now, go read it in context. For example the next verse:

[8:13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle;
and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle-- then surely
Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

It's clear from the entire Sura that the 'unbelievers' referred to are
not merely non-Muslims, they are enemies who are actively at war with
the Muslims. When they desire peace, the same Sura commands that it be
given to them.

[8.61] And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in
Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

In other words, Muslims are to make peace with their enemies even if
they have doubts about their enemies' sincerity. In a similar vein
they are enjoined to honor any truce they might make with their
enemies.

Unfortunately almost no non-Muslim Americans bother to read the Koran,
even in translation, except the people who go through picking and
choosing the verses they want to emphasize how evil Muslims are.
(Never mind the Hadith, which most of them have never even heard of!)

(Oh yeah, don't be confused by the reference to 'terror'. That's a
translation issue. The term isn't related to 'terrorism.')

Don't get me wrong. Islamic culture is very different from Western
culture. There are profound differences and a lot of things on either
side that the other side finds unacceptable. Islam and Christianity
likewise have major differences. But caricaturing and demonizing the
religion and its beliefs doesn't help anyone -- except maybe Al Queda.

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

In article , "mp" wrote:
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts
of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly
between
the ages of 17 and 40?


It's the sad result of the term "racist" being bandied around by every
half-wit who cannot participate in a point by point debate. By calling
things racism when they clearly are not, it dillutes the very serious
meaning of the word. In our society today, the term racism is so overly
used that idiots now think that everything is racism. It is a true pity
because real racism still exists and the seriousness of the charge is being
eroded. So now, statement of historical fact is racism, even if the
historical fact has no reference to race in it. At this rate, racism will
become a word which no longer has any practical meaning to people.

Frank

And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts
of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly
between
the ages of 17 and 40?

He meant biggot.

What's wrong with it is the implied conclusion that all muslims are
murderers and/or terrorists.

There are probably as many blond people on the planet as muslims.
It is a logical fallicy to name 12 blond people who are *ssholes and say
"connect the dots...."

Which is not to say that that I am completely against the use of profiling
to allow law enforcement to efficiently use it's resources, however the OP's
comments are inflamatory and border on hate mongering.

-Steve

In article , "Stephen M" wrote:
And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts
of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly
between
the ages of 17 and 40?

He meant biggot.

What's wrong with it is the implied conclusion that all muslims are
murderers and/or terrorists.

There is no such conclusion implied. You're looking at this from the wrong
direction. It is obviously incorrect to suppose that all Muslims are
terrorists; however, it is equally obvious that nearly all terrorists are
Muslims, primarily Muslims from the middle east. And thus, if you're trying to
find terrorists, it clearly makes more sense to look for them among middle
eastern Muslims than among Scandinavian Christians or southeast Asian
Buddhists.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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If memory serves correctly, Timothy McVeigh, who was responsible for an
awful lot of deaths, was neither Muslim or from the Middle East.

Matthew

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Stephen M"
wrote:
And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the
acts
of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly
between
the ages of 17 and 40?

He meant biggot.

What's wrong with it is the implied conclusion that all muslims are
murderers and/or terrorists.

There is no such conclusion implied. You're looking at this from the wrong
direction. It is obviously incorrect to suppose that all Muslims are
terrorists; however, it is equally obvious that nearly all terrorists are
Muslims, primarily Muslims from the middle east. And thus, if you're
trying to
find terrorists, it clearly makes more sense to look for them among middle
eastern Muslims than among Scandinavian Christians or southeast Asian
Buddhists.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:01:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "mp" wrote:
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?

Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..
mac Please remove splinters before emailing


Yeah...heh heh...if you only knew what the Q'uran involves in it's doctrine for
"real muslim religion"... those terrorists are doing what it says, as learning
from the Q'uran. Much of that doctrine adds up to the conclusions they come
to do in anti-human actions as justified in Islam, based on what that book says.
If one is a Christian or a Jew or an idol worshiper or a Buddhist then they are
"the enemy" and deserve to die. Just because the Q'uran says so... that is a part
of it.

I, therefore, am "the enemy" by the doctrine of the Q'uran and deserve to die,
because of what I believe in religiously that is "other than" the holy Q'uran.

This is while they pine away for the innocents and justification that the Jews
and Christians already have... the terrorist muslims are totaly full of it for what
they do, and possibly why they do it based upon how they interpret their book.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:34:43 -0800, "AAvK" wrote:


Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..
mac Please remove splinters before emailing


Yeah...heh heh...if you only knew what the Q'uran involves in it's doctrine for
"real muslim religion"... those terrorists are doing what it says, as learning
from the Q'uran.

Like hell!
The Koran has very specific prohibitions against 'terrorist' actions.
While it recognizes all non-believers as enemies of Islam, it imposes
limits on the methods which may be used to oppose, or fight, them.

For example:

[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you,
and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who
exceed the limits.

or again:

[18.74] So they went on until, when they met a boy, he slew him.
(Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for
manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing.

Qur'an 2.190, 18.74
(Shakir Translation)

The most commonly quoted Koranic justification for killing
non-believers is in 2.191 "slay them wherever you find them." However
if you read the entire Surah (chapter) the context makes it clear that
this refers only to those who are actively in arms against Islam and
that excessive killing is forbidden.

Even more than the Bible the Koran is a very situational book. Much of
it deals with Mohammed's pronouncements on specific cases at specific
times and places. That means that, like the Bible, if you comb through
it you can find verses which seem to support all kinds of practices.
The Haidth (traditions) is even worse for that.

Unfortunately in the wake of 9/11 some people, mostly Christian
fundamentalists, have taken to searching out verses, Haidth and
incidents from Islamic history which give a preverse picture of Islam.

This is not to say that Islam is a religion of tolerance and brotherly
love. It is not, in general. Islam is a very complex phenomenon and it
speaks with many voices. However there is a general consensus within
Islam about what is an is not acceptable.

Osama bin Nutcase and his ilk are definitely well beyond the pale.

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

This is while they pine away for the innocents and justification that the
Jews
and Christians already have... the terrorist muslims are totaly full of it
for what
they do, and possibly why they do it based upon how they interpret their
book.

Have you ever entertained the possibility that Western foreign policy
towards the middle east might have more to do with the root causes of
terrorism than an interpretation of a religious text? Or have you fallen for
the "they hate our freedoms" Bushspeak?

AAvK wrote:


Yeah...heh heh...if you only knew what the Q'uran involves in it's doctrine for
"real muslim religion"... those terrorists are doing what it says, as learning
from the Q'uran. Much of that doctrine adds up to the conclusions they come
to do in anti-human actions as justified in Islam, based on what that book says.
If one is a Christian or a Jew or an idol worshiper or a Buddhist then they are
"the enemy" and deserve to die. Just because the Q'uran says so... that is a part
of it.


I invite you to read the Qu'ran, and study it's meaning. You might be
surprised, and you would surely be better informed.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 07:52:10 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:01:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "mp" wrote:
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?

Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Random killing of unarmed people is indeed anti-Islam. The hoops that
these guys jump through to try to justify what they're doing under
Islamic law are truly remarkable.

But keep in mind there's a lot in many brands of fundamentalist Islam
which is against the traditional tenets of Islam. So the implication
is more complex than we would expect.

But on the original question: What do you think the impact would be if
every Arab or Muslim were pulled out of line at the airport and given
a special search?

I think there's a balance that needs to be struck here.

--RC

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

In article , take out 'takeout' to reply wrote:

But on the original question: What do you think the impact would be if
every Arab or Muslim were pulled out of line at the airport and given
a special search?

One obvious result is that we'd catch more terrorists....

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "mp"
wrote:
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the
acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists
mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?


The restriction of examples to only acts comited by 'Muslim men
between the ages of 17 and 40'.

One could compile a similar list of Israeli, Sub-Saharran African,
Serbian, Indonesian, or American criminal acts, with but a little
research.

Think about how long the KKK operated its guerilla war here in
the US. Would profiling white Protestant males between the
ages of 17 and 40 have helped?

--

FF

In article , says...
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.

Trolling again?

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:08:47 GMT, Unisaw A100 wrote:


I knew you were going to say that.

An empty space? separating you from that which is "other" in a specific belief?

I like you A100, you offer a good brotherhood in helping other people in this
group that need it, with whatever knowledge you have, in a down to Earth and
positive way. That is really good of you. I know I don't know you from Adam,
but what I said is based on what I have read of you in this group, and I hope you
keep it up.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/