I may disagree you you politicoly but I freely admit you are a far better
craftsman than I, and would find it a privilege to hold your tape measure
or sweep your shop, you can't be good at everything, so no hard feelings?

Richard Clements wrote:
a more pointed question is should we have gone to war in WWII, it's
interesting how simular the two wars where and at the same time so
different. in Iraq, just like in WWII you had a murdering dictator,
who
had goals of expansion, Hitler wanted Europe, Saddam wanted more
middle
east oil.


I should just cite Godwin.

But instead I will go to the trouble to point out that even
before annexing Czechoslavakia and Austria Germany was the
most populous nation in Western Europe, and technologically
advanced. By the time the US entered the war Germany had
conquered most of Western Europe and even then it was only
after Germany decalred war on the US that the US reciprocated.

Iraq, OTOH was a much smaller nation that had twice failed
in its attempts to expand its territory by war and by the
time the US invaded had already been reduced to complete
military impotency.

If you want to draw a parallel between WWII and the invasion
of Iraq I suggest you consider the invasion of Abysinia.

--

FF

Richard Clements wrote:

... now
Charlie before you get up set, the Poles found a large cash of
mourder
rounds filled with mustard gas,

No they didn't. They had a false positive test on some rockets.

our troops got hit with a road side device
that had a bio agent in it.

The design of which was a pre-1991 prototype never put into
production. That specific specimen was probably an unexploded
dud recovered from a test range.

they may have been pre desert storm, dosn't
matter

Yes it does matter, no one expected Iraq to comb the desert for
unexploded munitions. Even if he had kept munitions that were
that old they would have decomposed to inefectiveness. Why would
Saddam Hussein stockpile duds, and if he did, why invade to
take them away?

he shouldn't have had them, add in the long list of other other
things we found long range rockets, etc,

He had rockets that barely exceeded the range limit in a zero
payload test. A reasonable interpretation is that with a
payload it would have fallen within the limit. Regardless,
they were decalred to the UN and slated for destruction.
In other words, in reagards to those rockets Iraq complied
with the demand to declare them and allow them to be inspected.
Read that again. He complied with the demand to open up and
permit inspection and complied with the UNMOVIC demand that
they be destoryed and you are citing that COMPLIANCE as evidence
of violation.

HE HAD WEAPONS THAT VIOLATED THE
U.N. RESOLUTIONS.

See above.

--

FF

Fredfigh responds:
Richard Clements wrote:

... now
Charlie before you get up set, the Poles found a large cash of
mourder
rounds filled with mustard gas,



No they didn't. They had a false positive test on some rockets.


our troops got hit with a road side device
that had a bio agent in it.


The design of which was a pre-1991 prototype never put into
production. That specific specimen was probably an unexploded
dud recovered from a test range.


they may have been pre desert storm, dosn't
matter


Yes it does matter, no one expected Iraq to comb the desert for
unexploded munitions. Even if he had kept munitions that were
that old they would have decomposed to inefectiveness. Why would
Saddam Hussein stockpile duds, and if he did, why invade to
take them away?


he shouldn't have had them, add in the long list of other other
things we found long range rockets, etc,


He had rockets that barely exceeded the range limit in a zero
payload test. A reasonable interpretation is that with a
payload it would have fallen within the limit. Regardless,
they were decalred to the UN and slated for destruction.
In other words, in reagards to those rockets Iraq complied
with the demand to declare them and allow them to be inspected.
Read that again. He complied with the demand to open up and
permit inspection and complied with the UNMOVIC demand that
they be destoryed and you are citing that COMPLIANCE as evidence
of violation.


HE HAD WEAPONS THAT VIOLATED THE
U.N. RESOLUTIONS.


See above.

Fred, you can't change their minds. Their leader has admitted to their
being no WMDs, but his--I can't determine whether it was Big Lie or
Chicken Little--earlier act was so effective his followers can't shake
that message.

Joseph would have been proud, if it was the Big Lie, which is most
probable.

On 16 Mar 2005 01:01:51 -0800, Charlie Self wrote:

Fred, you can't change their minds. Their leader has admitted to their
being no WMDs,

"We can't find them" isn't the same as "they aren't there", Charlie.

In article ,
says...
in Iraq, just like in WWII you had a murdering dictator, who
had goals of expansion, Hitler wanted Europe, Saddam wanted more middle
east oil.

Comparing Saddam to Hitler is like comparing Harry Truman to Thomas
Jefferson :-).

But keep up with the far-fetched justifications. They're an amusing
lesson in human nature :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 05:55:39 +0100, "no spam" wrote:

Serious reading, folks!







HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice
test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually
happened!!!

Do you remember?

-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying
to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into
the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers.Thousands of
people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent
on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to
profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old
women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents
who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen
with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss,
but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty
of profiling.

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds along
with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed
of themselves - if they have any such sense.

As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it,
"Stupid is as stupid does."

Come on people wake up!!!
Keep this going. Pass it on to everyone in your address book.
Our Country and our troops need our support!