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  #21   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 06:36 PM
 
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Note crossposting and follow-ups.

I disagree about OP being racist. Instead, he's a religious bigot.

Abe wrote:


I don't think so the OP's statements are racist at all. I'm a died in
the wool liberal, and the last to condemn a group based on the

actions
of a moderately few extremists. What the OP says is historically

true.
To take it back even further, the Muslim extremist Jihad against
America began when Israel was formed, and the US became an official
ally. I think it's important that we're an ally of Israel, the one
sane and democratic country in that part of the world.

Political correctness has, and is, being taken too far in the airport
screening process. That's my opinion as well.


What you are missing is the concept of the ability of a test to
discriminate in the objective, rather than the political sense.

How many Muslim men between the ages of 17 and 40 fly on airliners
each year? Twenty, Thirty, Fourty million perhaps? If you use
'Muslim man between the age of 17 and 40' as a screening criterion
you're literally playing a million to one shot. Besides, I
don't think anyone's passport, visa or driver's license is
going to say 'Muslim' on it.

Aside from that, if it is known that security is concentrating
on a particular 'type' then any potential perpetrator will simply
avoid appearing like that type and so will then have a smaller
chance of being caught. Most 'Muslim men between 17 and 40'
could easily pass for Italians, Greeks, Spainards, Armenians,
Cypriots, etc, or some other religious persuation.

In some respects, this is like pre-employment drug screening.
If the testing really has a deterrant effect, then the only
positive tests will be false positives because no drug addicts
will take the test.

--

FF


  #22   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 06:41 PM
 
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Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "mp"

wrote:
Serious reading, folks!


And you're one serious racist.


What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the

acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists

mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?


The restriction of examples to only acts comited by 'Muslim men
between the ages of 17 and 40'.

One could compile a similar list of Israeli, Sub-Saharran African,
Serbian, Indonesian, or American criminal acts, with but a little
research.

Think about how long the KKK operated its guerilla war here in
the US. Would profiling white Protestant males between the
ages of 17 and 40 have helped?

--

FF

  #23   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 06:46 PM
George
 
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"AAvK" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

That is an excellent thinking you have on breaking up the poison of

"stereotype"!
I wholly (did I spell that right?) agree.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


Unfortunately, we learn by analogy, and another way of defining that is to
say stereotype.

Are you saying if it looks, walks, quacks, we shouldn't stereotype it as a
duck? Sure would make all experience brand new.


  #24   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 07:14 PM
Dave Hinz
 
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On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:20:25 -0800, AAvK wrote:

An empty space? separating you from that which is "other" in a specific belief?


It's his standard response to what he sees as excessively off-topic posts.

I like you A100, you offer a good brotherhood in helping other people in this
group that need it, with whatever knowledge you have, in a down to Earth and
positive way.


And he gave me free wood (which is half used up, by the way, thanks).

  #25   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 07:18 PM
Frank Ketchum
 
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"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...


Nope. Frank, go back to my intro and try again.



Yes Bob, I read the intro the first time. I have seen both of these posts
elsewhere. The point of the second is valid that selective snippets of
history can be used to shape opinion. There is no doubt that this is true.
However, providing examples of this obvious fact does not explain away the
occurrences referenced by the first post.

Frank




  #26   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 07:22 PM
AAvK
 
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Unfortunately, we learn by analogy, and another way of defining that is to
say stereotype.

Are you saying if it looks, walks, quacks, we shouldn't stereotype it as a
duck? Sure would make all experience brand new.


Whatsamattah...? Didn't you fully read Robatoy's text? My reply was my
appreciation of what he had to say there, no judgment intended.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
http://www.e-sword.net/


  #27   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 07:53 PM
 
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 07:52:10 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:01:46 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "mp" wrote:
Serious reading, folks!

And you're one serious racist.


What, exactly, is racist in stating the _plain_fact_ that all of the acts of
terrorism cited were indeed committed by Muslim male extremists mostly between
the ages of 17 and 40?


Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


Random killing of unarmed people is indeed anti-Islam. The hoops that
these guys jump through to try to justify what they're doing under
Islamic law are truly remarkable.

But keep in mind there's a lot in many brands of fundamentalist Islam
which is against the traditional tenets of Islam. So the implication
is more complex than we would expect.

But on the original question: What do you think the impact would be if
every Arab or Muslim were pulled out of line at the airport and given
a special search?

I think there's a balance that needs to be struck here.

--RC

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.
  #29   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 08:21 PM
[email protected]
 
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On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:34:43 -0800, "AAvK" wrote:


Thanks for including the word "extremists" in that, Doug... I think
that's a key word in the argument....
From what I understand, the muslim religion abhors the type of killing
that terrorists do and that most of what folks like Bin Laden (sp?)
preach is actually against the real muslim religion..
mac Please remove splinters before emailing



Yeah...heh heh...if you only knew what the Q'uran involves in it's doctrine for
"real muslim religion"... those terrorists are doing what it says, as learning
from the Q'uran.


Like hell!
The Koran has very specific prohibitions against 'terrorist' actions.
While it recognizes all non-believers as enemies of Islam, it imposes
limits on the methods which may be used to oppose, or fight, them.

For example:

[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you,
and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who
exceed the limits.

or again:

[18.74] So they went on until, when they met a boy, he slew him.
(Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for
manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing.

Qur'an 2.190, 18.74
(Shakir Translation)

The most commonly quoted Koranic justification for killing
non-believers is in 2.191 "slay them wherever you find them." However
if you read the entire Surah (chapter) the context makes it clear that
this refers only to those who are actively in arms against Islam and
that excessive killing is forbidden.

Even more than the Bible the Koran is a very situational book. Much of
it deals with Mohammed's pronouncements on specific cases at specific
times and places. That means that, like the Bible, if you comb through
it you can find verses which seem to support all kinds of practices.
The Haidth (traditions) is even worse for that.

Unfortunately in the wake of 9/11 some people, mostly Christian
fundamentalists, have taken to searching out verses, Haidth and
incidents from Islamic history which give a preverse picture of Islam.

This is not to say that Islam is a religion of tolerance and brotherly
love. It is not, in general. Islam is a very complex phenomenon and it
speaks with many voices. However there is a general consensus within
Islam about what is an is not acceptable.

Osama bin Nutcase and his ilk are definitely well beyond the pale.

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.
  #30   Report Post  
Old February 1st 05, 08:45 PM
mp
 
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This is while they pine away for the innocents and justification that the
Jews
and Christians already have... the terrorist muslims are totaly full of it
for what
they do, and possibly why they do it based upon how they interpret their
book.


Have you ever entertained the possibility that Western foreign policy
towards the middle east might have more to do with the root causes of
terrorism than an interpretation of a religious text? Or have you fallen for
the "they hate our freedoms" Bushspeak?




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