Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions? I am not brand loyal to anything. I just use what works. I
pretty much have my piping plan worked out. The main tools we use are
the bandsaw, lathe, and scrollsaw. Plus sanding our projects. Leaning
towards the Penn State (bigger impeller). The Oneida seems pretty
expensive (I know they help you plan etc but that part is pretty well
done). Griz is unknown but I have several of their items and they work
well for a fair price. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Guy

On 29 Jan 2005 14:40:47 -0800, wrote:

Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions? I am not brand loyal to anything. I just use what works. I
pretty much have my piping plan worked out. The main tools we use are
the bandsaw, lathe, and scrollsaw. Plus sanding our projects. Leaning
towards the Penn State (bigger impeller). The Oneida seems pretty
expensive (I know they help you plan etc but that part is pretty well
done). Griz is unknown but I have several of their items and they work
well for a fair price. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Guy
=====================
No actual advice ...(and I now use a 1 Hp Penn State DC dedicated to
my planer and a 2 Hp Grizly for the rest of my tools...)..neither are
cyclone units.

BUT... the Scrollsaw and the Bandsaw (if they produce as much sawdust
as mine do are not machines that really need a big powerful DC..
especially a cyclone. And I personally have tried using a DC without
much luck on my lathe ...all the shavings and dust hit me in the chest
and I am not about to mount the DC port on my chest...
Doing finishing sanding on the lathe (which I have to do because I am
not that good with it) works great however...

Just my opinion..

Bob Griffiths

On 29 Jan 2005 14:40:47 -0800, wrote:

Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions?
-snip-

If you haven't already done so, I'd strongly recommend spending some time on
Bill Pentz's site:

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

There is a lot of information to be found there - including some comments
regarding commercial systems such as you mention.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

On 29 Jan 2005 14:40:47 -0800, wrote:

Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly.

the last two are pretty low on the quality list. the first very spendy. I would
look into building one or buying the kit far better and far less money.
http://billpentz.com/Woodworking/Cyc...ycloneKits.cfm
plus you can use two cartridge filters for more airflow.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

wrote:
Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions? I am not brand loyal to anything. I just use what works. I
pretty much have my piping plan worked out. The main tools we use are
the bandsaw, lathe, and scrollsaw. Plus sanding our projects. Leaning
towards the Penn State (bigger impeller). The Oneida seems pretty
expensive (I know they help you plan etc but that part is pretty well
done). Griz is unknown but I have several of their items and they work
well for a fair price. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Guy

Check out http://billpentz.com//woodworkingcyclone.index.cfm.

I recently bought one of his machines. Well made & very cost effective.

Regards,

Dave Vermilyea

I have the Oneida 1-1/2 HP model and it works great. I have installed duct
to all of my bigger machines and I us a a remote control. It makes for a
very convenient setup.
Mike

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions? I am not brand loyal to anything. I just use what works. I
pretty much have my piping plan worked out. The main tools we use are
the bandsaw, lathe, and scrollsaw. Plus sanding our projects. Leaning
towards the Penn State (bigger impeller). The Oneida seems pretty
expensive (I know they help you plan etc but that part is pretty well
done). Griz is unknown but I have several of their items and they work
well for a fair price. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Guy

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:57:34 -0500, "Mike Myers" wrote:

I have the Oneida 1-1/2 HP model and it works great. I have installed duct
to all of my bigger machines and I us a a remote control. It makes for a
very convenient setup.

that's a pretty small machine though. if you really want to get all of the dust
from your machines 2hp 12" impeller dc is just pushing being enough. usually it
takes two collection points on most machines to really catch the dust.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello folks, Am planning on a new cyclone this spring. Trying to decide
between three 2HP versions; Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly. Any
opinions? I am not brand loyal to anything. I just use what works. I
pretty much have my piping plan worked out. The main tools we use are
the bandsaw, lathe, and scrollsaw. Plus sanding our projects. Leaning
towards the Penn State (bigger impeller). The Oneida seems pretty
expensive (I know they help you plan etc but that part is pretty well
done). Griz is unknown but I have several of their items and they work
well for a fair price. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch,
Guy

Dear Guy,

When I was looking at acquiring the components of a D/C system, I searched
this news group to access the "collective knowledge", then I took my best
shot. I'd like to share my experience with you.



I have a basement shop and headroom is a consideration. I had thought about
a D/C system, but it was a far-in-the-future purchase when both my wife and
I had an adverse reaction to some wood I was cutting last fall and we
decided to get the system ASAP. I had been pricing cyclones and I knew the
Oneida was expensive. Also, I believe the Grizzly was too tall to meet my
height requirements.



I called Penn State with the thought in mind that I would buy a roll-around
DC with a canister filter and add a garbage can separator. I spoke at some
length with Carl at Penn State, and, in the end, bought the Tempest Cyclone
(12" impeller, 2hp) with the tall canister filters.



From the beginning, I had problems. Many, but not all of the problems
resulted because Penn State cannot (or will not) package things to survive
the shipping process.



Initial problems we



1.. 5X4 piping reducer, squashed flat.
2.. Hoses squashed and kinked.
3.. One of the filter cartridges was deformed enough to be unusable.
4.. The fitting used to connect the filters to the fan discharge was
clearly not well thought out. It looked to me to be one that was used for a
different size connection and altered with a saw (but not de-burred). It
had you tightening a hose on a steep tapered surface.
5.. The included wall mounting brackets were not included.


Penn State promptly supplied and/or replaced missing/damaged items but I
found it really annoying.



There are several things with respect to the Penn State design that made
assembly and installation more difficult than I thought was reasonable, for
example:



1. You need to assemble the motor and blower assembly to the cyclone
drum. This connection requires a seal, but Penn State thinks you should
provide it. In my mind, this connection is at the greatest pressure
differential between the DC system and your shop (thus it really affects
efficiency) and they should give you a decent seal.

2. The system uses two cartridge filters for discharge. They are
assembled with a top fitting (connects by hose to the fan discharge) and a
canister on the bottom. Penn State's design calls for this all to be glued
together so it's very hard to change any components. Also, you also have to
cut a seven inch diameter hole in the canister lid.

3. The wall mounting brackets attach to the cyclone drum to the wall.
The bolt hole pattern in the brackets and the cyclone are very different so
there was some additional drilling.



Well, after a few weeks of parts going back and forth, my cyclone was up on
the wall and running. Next I had to deal with piping. I initially bought
25' of 4" hose so I could get up and running with the thought in mind that I
would be installing some permanent piping as time permits.



I had determined that I would use 5"diameter piping for my main manifold and
then transition to 4" for my machine drops. Carl at Penn State was very
helpful here. Also Penn State gives you a $50 ducting credit when you buy a
cyclone, so that looked like a good way to go. I chose spiral piping for
the 5" main and 4" S&D PVC for the machine drops. The spiral pipe is very
nice but oh are those fittings expensive. I mean VERY expensive.



OK, here I go. Spiral pipe from Penn State and PVC from Home Depot (and a
few fittings from McMaster-Carr). I also decided to add the Long Ranger
system that has micro switches on blast gates that turns on the DC when you
open the gate. (Bought from Penn State, natch).



The Long Ranger system presented a few problems. Neither the 220v relay box
nor the blast gates had any way to mount them in a fixed position. I
epoxy-on'd flanges to the relay box, but the blast gates were more of a
problem. If you attach a hose to both sides, then the gates are too floopy
to be constantly pulling and pushing to open and close them. I wound up by
attaching at least one side of all the gates to a rigid pipe. This is no
mean feat since the diameters of the 4" spiral pipe, 4" hose, 4" PVC and 4"
blast gates are all different. I made adapters, but they were a pain in the
ass.



Well, I started in the fall, then Thanksgiving came, and Christmas, and work
and some illness... you know the story. Ok, middle of January, I am all
piped in and things are good. I have the DC system piped to my jointer,
planer, table saw, band saw, and in the hopefully not-too-distant future, my
miter saw. And it runs well, picks up most of the dust from everything
(except the table saw, which is an old Walker-Turner contractor saw that I
have to modify for better dust collection).



Oh boy, now I am in full swing. I spend about two full days working on
turning rough sawn maple into a crib for my new grandson, and I start with
DC problems. It starts by having the DC blow the circuit breakers. The
motor is really hot. I let it cool over night and it starts again the next
day, but makes a terrible noise. I call Penn State and ask to speak to
Carl. He is no longer there. I speak to Doug, who is nice and he says to
send him my motor and fan and he will check it out. I really don't relish
dis-assembling my system, but I can't live this way. I told him I would use
the system over the weekend (had to finish the crib) and send it out today.
(I really don't know how I'm gonna pack it, a 2 horse motor with stuff
hangin' off.)



Well I took my system apart and then I took the back off the motor. The set
screw that holds the motor's internal fan impeller was gone and the impeller
was free spinning. Well that accounts for the noise and heat build-up, but
I'm worried that my motor was damaged by all the hot running. Doug at Penn
State agreed to send a replacement motor n/c and I will send back the
original after it arrives. Good service from Penn State, still this shouldn't
have happened. And man, what a pain in the ass to take everything apart to
service the motor.



Perhaps some of this is my fault. I have the cyclone installed in the
basement so the motor sits between two first floor joists and can be
accessed only by taking everything down off the wall. Still, the motor set
screw should be locked in to give more than a few hours of operation.



It may be useful to mention other dealings with Penn State. I also bought an
air cleaner from them. Two additional control units and one full
replacement later, everything is working fine. I'm not sure whether to
blame Penn State for poor packing, or UPS for rough handling (I saw the
driver kick the first air cleaner out of the truck).



This may be more info than you wanted, but it is the kind of info I would
have appreciated when I was still looking. Again, Penn State replaced
broken things promptly, but it would have been better not to have to hassle
with that at all. I wonder if I really saved any money by not considering
Oneida.



Bill Leonhardt

Bill Leonhardt wrote:
Tempest Cyclone
(12" impeller, 2hp) with the tall canister filters.

I also recently purchased the Tempest Cyclone 2hp (110v/220v) with the
12" impeller and the tall canisters (filter down to .5 microns). I
found it packaged quite well and everything was in good shape with no
pieces missing, so perhaps Bill has some pretty rough handling UPS
drivers.

4.. The fitting used to connect the filters to the fan discharge
was
clearly not well thought out. It looked to me to be one that was
used for a
different size connection and altered with a saw (but not de-burred).
It
had you tightening a hose on a steep tapered surface.

I agree here. I ditched the connector that Penn State sent and made my
own. A round piece of plywood with a circle cut from the middle for a
piece of 5" stove pipe. Silicon the stove pipe into the hole, then
silicon it to the top of the filter. Use a hose clamp to clamp the
hose from the fan discharge to that pipe, and you're set.

1. You need to assemble the motor and blower assembly to the
cyclone
drum. This connection requires a seal, but Penn State thinks you
should
provide it.

I agree here too, but again I just spread some silicon (Penn State
included a tube of it) around before pressing these two pieces
together, and it seems to work just fine.


2. The system uses two cartridge filters for discharge. They are

assembled with a top fitting (connects by hose to the fan discharge)
and a
canister on the bottom. Penn State's design calls for this all to be
glued
together so it's very hard to change any components. Also, you also
have to
cut a seven inch diameter hole in the canister lid.

He's right, but for me so far it hasn't been a concern. Cutting the
hole in the canister lid is no big deal...just get a hacksaw blade for
a jig saw (it doesn't have to be a precise, perfectly round hole) to
cut through the thin metal lid.


3. The wall mounting brackets attach to the cyclone drum to the
wall.
The bolt hole pattern in the brackets and the cyclone are very
different so
there was some additional drilling.

My bolt holes aligned just fine. YMMV if you want to turn the cyclone
so that the intake/outtake are positioned such that the bolts that hold
the cyclone together don't line up with the holes in the mounting
brackets.

Next I had to deal with piping. I initially bought
25' of 4" hose so I could get up and running with the thought in mind
that I
would be installing some permanent piping as time permits.

I just ran 6" stove pipe and sealed it up with tape & silicon caulk.
Forget about the $50 coupon, because as Bill mentioned, the price of
the Penn State (and most others too) fittings & pipe will soon eat that
up and it'd cost you more than buying stove pipe and/or PVC pipe from
your local hardware store.

Before going with the 6" duct (not sure how much 6" helps with a 5"
intake), I measured the amp of the unit running without any ductwork at
all, and with the 12" impeller it should basically be impossible to
burn this motor up (wide open it didn't draw it's rated current - a
larger impeller would increase it's draw) . There are some
enhancements that can be made to these systems to help them draw more
air (and current - see Bill Pentz's site mentioned previously) to help
optimize your air volume/current draw (install a neutral vein, larger
impeller, etc). I haven't tried any of these with mine...yet.

Well I took my system apart and then I took the back off the motor.
The set
screw that holds the motor's internal fan impeller was gone and the
impeller
was free spinning.

Boy I hope that doesn't happen to mine.

Perhaps some of this is my fault. I have the cyclone installed in
the
basement so the motor sits between two first floor joists and can be
accessed only by taking everything down off the wall.

I suspect that you'd have this problem with most any cyclone unit
mounted this way, but I could be wrong. Mine's mounted the same way.
Charlie

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:58:04 -0500, Dave Vermilyea wrote:

BTW, how much did you spend for the whole project and if possible breakdown
parts/price.

Let say if I have: 16/32 drum sander, 1-1/2hp TS, 14" BS and 15" thickness
planer and only one of the machine operate at a time, how many hp or cfm do I
need?

Thanks

Check out http://billpentz.com//woodworkingcyclone.index.cfm.

I recently bought one of his machines. Well made & very cost effective.

Regards,

Dave Vermilyea

WD wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 07:58:04 -0500, Dave Vermilyea wrote:

BTW, how much did you spend for the whole project and if possible breakdown
parts/price.

Let say if I have: 16/32 drum sander, 1-1/2hp TS, 14" BS and 15" thickness
planer and only one of the machine operate at a time, how many hp or cfm do I
need?

Thanks


Check out http://billpentz.com//woodworkingcyclone.index.cfm.

I recently bought one of his machines. Well made & very cost effective.

Regards,

Dave Vermilyea



As I recall, I spent approx $350 for the cyclone & blower, $160 for the
impellor & approx $250 for the 5hp, compressor duty Leeson Motor. The
price for the cyclone & blower is for the built up machine. if you
prefer to do the work yourself, Bill Pentz has the machines available as
kits.

Regards,

Dave

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:28:35 -0600, WD wrote:

BTW, how much did you spend for the whole project and if possible breakdown
parts/price.

My costs for the Pentz cyclone kit are very close to what Dave stated. Add to
that expenses for ducting. I used 6" S&D thinwall PVC Pipe and fittings in an
under floor installation for another couple of hundred US bucks.

As for the cfm requirements for the machines you list, I believe there is a
pretty thorough discussion on Bill's website. I recall his recommendation of 800
cfm for the tablesaw but don't recall details for the other machines.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA