I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

mnterpfan wrote:

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

Remember, Donaldson-Torit makes filtration systems for all sorts of uses,
not just woodworking. You're right that almost nothing should make it
through, but almost nothing is not nothing and in situations in which
you're dealing with something where outside emissions are regulated that
"almost nothing" can get you in trouble.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I looked at "Blue Tornado" and they mention a similar
story on their equipment. The dust bags are the final
filter. I think what happens, is that you use the
cyclone as the "chip collector" and the bag collector
as the dust collector.


mnterpfan wrote:

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

On 16 Nov 2004 04:49:40 -0800, (mnterpfan) wrote:

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

Hi Eric. I think you have the right idea. The cyclone exhaust goes
to the DC intake, making the cyclone a "pre-cleaner." This protects
your DC from taking large chips, screws, or other items that may
damage the blades. The nice thing about a cyclone is that there are
no moving parts.

Eric:

Yes, typical cyclone receives the junk from the shop, and has an extractor
on the output. Most cyclones don't really need a filter (bag) on the
outside of the cyclone, because they are extremely efficient about
separating dust and debris from the airstream. However, if you are one to
do a lot of fine sanding, I would think about using something with an
"after filter" just in case, particularly if you live in the city and have
a neighbor within a hundred feet or so... A typical DC will have a
reasonable filter to use as an after filter, and most don't drop the
airflow so much as to make you want to remove them....

Any decent Cyclone will drop most of the debris from the airstream. Even
my home made cyclone (from a 55 gallon drum) will drop just about
everything except for the very finest dust (which could really just go
outside, as I live in the country and don't have any neighbors within a
mile on that side of the workshop) when the cyclone drum is working.
However, if you forget to empty the drum (cabinet in your case) you will
get a lot of dust [DAMHIKT], followed by possible chunks into your DC
bags. Thus, it is still a good idea to run the standard bag filter on
your DC, and to check the drum (cabinet) often to determine when it is
time to empty it.... Just to see what effect it would have, I left the
bags off my DC for about a month (but watched the drum to make sure it was
never over half full) and I had but the very lightest dusting of extremely
fine dust in the shed (about 6x10 feet) the DC lives in. However, I don't
always remember to check the cyclone drum, so I always run with the filter
bags on my DC, just in case. This has saved me a bunch of work with the
shop vac on at least one occasion in the past year...

With the homemade cyclone I have, I can run with the filter bag off of the
DC without any visible dust output until the drum is at least 2/3 full. I
would imagine a commercial cyclone could stand a higher level of debris
before it loses it's effectiveness, however, in the interest of making
sure our environment is protected, I would suggest you continue to use the
standard bags your DC has, AND check the DC bags periodically. Any
significant dust in the DC bags indicates it's way past time to empty the
cyclone drum/cabinet!!!

Good Luck, I'm sure you'll love having a cyclone

Thanks
--Rick

mnterpfan wrote:

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:14:59 GMT, Rick Frazier
wrote:

Eric:

Yes, typical cyclone receives the junk from the shop, and has an extractor
on the output. Most cyclones don't really need a filter (bag) on the
outside of the cyclone, because they are extremely efficient about
separating dust and debris from the airstream. However, if you are one to
do a lot of fine sanding, I would think about using something with an
"after filter" just in case, particularly if you live in the city and have
a neighbor within a hundred feet or so... A typical DC will have a
reasonable filter to use as an after filter, and most don't drop the
airflow so much as to make you want to remove them....

Any decent Cyclone will drop most of the debris from the airstream. Even
my home made cyclone (from a 55 gallon drum) will drop just about
everything except for the very finest dust (which could really just go
outside, as I live in the country and don't have any neighbors within a
mile on that side of the workshop) when the cyclone drum is working.
However, if you forget to empty the drum (cabinet in your case) you will
get a lot of dust [DAMHIKT], followed by possible chunks into your DC
bags. Thus, it is still a good idea to run the standard bag filter on
your DC, and to check the drum (cabinet) often to determine when it is
time to empty it.... Just to see what effect it would have, I left the
bags off my DC for about a month (but watched the drum to make sure it was
never over half full) and I had but the very lightest dusting of extremely
fine dust in the shed (about 6x10 feet) the DC lives in. However, I don't
always remember to check the cyclone drum, so I always run with the filter
bags on my DC, just in case. This has saved me a bunch of work with the
shop vac on at least one occasion in the past year...

With the homemade cyclone I have, I can run with the filter bag off of the
DC without any visible dust output until the drum is at least 2/3 full. I
would imagine a commercial cyclone could stand a higher level of debris
before it loses it's effectiveness, however, in the interest of making
sure our environment is protected, I would suggest you continue to use the
standard bags your DC has, AND check the DC bags periodically. Any
significant dust in the DC bags indicates it's way past time to empty the
cyclone drum/cabinet!!!

Good Luck, I'm sure you'll love having a cyclone

Thanks
--Rick

Rick..
I need a cyclone type lid for the DC being shipped to me... any
hints/pic/plans available on what you built?

thanks,
mac

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:14:59 GMT, Rick Frazier wrote:

snip
However, if you forget to empty the drum (cabinet in your case) you will
get a lot of dust [DAMHIKT], followed by possible chunks into your DC
bags.
snip

I have no idea about how well these work, but am giving strong consideration to
buying and installing one on my "cyclone-to-be". It's a monitor for the debris
container that is supposed to trigger a audio/visual alarm when the level
reaches some pre-determined point.

http://kronosrobotics.com/pj_dusty/dusty.shtml


Standard disclaimers apply - no affiliation, etc.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

HEY GUYS,

SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS QUITE WELL I THOUGHT I
WOULD SHOOT OUT A QUESTION. I NEED TO PURCHASE A DUST COLLECTION
SYSTEM FOR INSIDE OF A 1600 SQ. FT. SHOP. IT IS A SINGLE BAY AND IS
CURRENTLY SET UP WITH , A TABLE SAW, PLANER/ JOINTER, CHOP SAW ETC.
AND HAS NO DUST COLLECTION. THE LEASE STATES THAT THE COLLECTION
SYSTEM CANNOT BE OUTDSIDE OF THE BUILDING, SO I NEED SOMETHING THAT IS
OK FOR INSIDE AND HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LOUD. IF ANYONE COULD RECOMMEND A
SUITABLE COLLECTION SYSTEM I WOULD APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ASAP.

BENDER

On 19 Nov 2004 09:59:24 -0800, (Bender) wrote:

HEY GUYS,

SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS QUITE WELL I THOUGHT I
WOULD SHOOT OUT A QUESTION. I NEED TO PURCHASE A DUST COLLECTION
SYSTEM FOR INSIDE OF A 1600 SQ. FT. SHOP. IT IS A SINGLE BAY AND IS
CURRENTLY SET UP WITH , A TABLE SAW, PLANER/ JOINTER, CHOP SAW ETC.
AND HAS NO DUST COLLECTION. THE LEASE STATES THAT THE COLLECTION
SYSTEM CANNOT BE OUTDSIDE OF THE BUILDING, SO I NEED SOMETHING THAT IS
OK FOR INSIDE AND HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LOUD. IF ANYONE COULD RECOMMEND A
SUITABLE COLLECTION SYSTEM I WOULD APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ASAP.

BENDER


Bill Pentz has spent a great deal of time and effort putting together a wealth
of information about dust collections systems. I'd strongly urge you to spend
some time with:

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

to get a real education about the in and outs, advantages and disadvantages of
various types and brands of DC systems. It would be well worth your time.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

On 19 Nov 2004 09:59:24 -0800, (Bender) wrote:

HEY GUYS,

SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS QUITE WELL I THOUGHT I
WOULD SHOOT OUT A QUESTION. I NEED TO PURCHASE A DUST COLLECTION
SYSTEM FOR INSIDE OF A 1600 SQ. FT. SHOP. IT IS A SINGLE BAY AND IS
CURRENTLY SET UP WITH , A TABLE SAW, PLANER/ JOINTER, CHOP SAW ETC.
AND HAS NO DUST COLLECTION. THE LEASE STATES THAT THE COLLECTION
SYSTEM CANNOT BE OUTDSIDE OF THE BUILDING, SO I NEED SOMETHING THAT IS
OK FOR INSIDE AND HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LOUD. IF ANYONE COULD RECOMMEND A
SUITABLE COLLECTION SYSTEM I WOULD APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ASAP.

BENDER

shoot out a question, or SHOUT it out?
OUCH!!

you don't want the Harbor Freight 2 hp one..
I'm happy with it so far, but the one thing you wouldn't call it is
quiet..

Bender shouted:

SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS QUITE WELL I
THOUGHT I WOULD SHOOT OUT A QUESTION. I NEED TO PURCHASE A
DUST COLLECTION SYSTEM FOR INSIDE OF A 1600 SQ. FT. SHOP. IT
IS A SINGLE BAY AND IS CURRENTLY SET UP WITH , A TABLE SAW,
PLANER/ JOINTER, CHOP SAW ETC. AND HAS NO DUST COLLECTION. THE
LEASE STATES THAT THE COLLECTION SYSTEM CANNOT BE OUTDSIDE OF
THE BUILDING, SO I NEED SOMETHING THAT IS OK FOR INSIDE AND
HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LOUD. IF ANYONE COULD RECOMMEND A SUITABLE
COLLECTION SYSTEM I WOULD APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ASAP.

Bender,

(All caps on usenet is the equivalent of shouting.)

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look it over for
ideas at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Morris Dovey wrote in news:YEHnd.1$pn3.2625
@news.uswest.net:

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ftý shop) and you can look it over for
ideas at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html


Hi Morris:

I'm an admirer of yours (lurking fashion) and I'm interested in the HF dust
collector, such as the one you describe on your webpage above, but am
disappointed at the 30 micron bags it seems to come with.

Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that would fit on
this HF machine?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

Thanks in advance!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look it over for ideas
at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart your existing dust
collector and mounting the motor and impeller on top? I mean something like
the plastic garbage can lid thing, only an actual cyclone.

On 16 Nov 2004 04:49:40 -0800, (mnterpfan) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Rant on. HTH.

One thing to remember. A good cyclone will stop a heck of a lot. In
fact I saw where the 'standard" bags on a DC are a waste of time if
you have a good cyclone!

........but.....and a big but...there are really fine bits (5 micron
and below) that get through.........and the standard bags are "not
needed" because they do not stop exactly these fine bits! It's being
found that these fine bits are what really damages your lungs. So if
you have a good cyclone (or not!), then you need proper filters on the
outlet, not the bags that come with the DCs. Probably the ideal is
cyclone, bags, then fine filter. Cyclone stops the bits, bag stops a
bit more, last filter stops the real nasties. Each one is easier to
"clean" than the next one. Final filter may not be cleanable at all.

There are filters called HEPA. High Efficiency Particulate Arrestance.
Some filters are _called_ HEPA. Others _are_ HEPA, AFAICS. These are
medical grade. "Boy in a bubble" stuff.

However, I have been advised that you do not really need HEPA filters
for shop use. They are often expensive, small in area (less time
before they need replacing as they clog), and often not reusable.
There are industrial filters, that go down to .5 micron particle size,
that are "concertinaed" to give huge area, and are a lot cheaper than
HEPA per "cub ft of stopped dust", so to speak. Check with an
industrial filter supply. That's where I went, and the guy was quite
helpful. He could have sold me HEPA at twice the price, but was
advising what he thought were better solutions for the real world.

Also remember that any filter system will need maintenance, and to be
kept free-flowing. A lot of people say that bag filters increase in
effectivness as they clog up, because the dust stuck in the weave acts
as a better filter. But of course this results in reduced flow, so you
lose a lot of the effect.

Rant off

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

mark wrote:

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably
work for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look
it over for ideas at:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart your
existing dust collector and mounting the motor and impeller on
top? I mean something like the plastic garbage can lid thing,
only an actual cyclone.

Mark...

Did you visit the link above? What you're asking about is what [I
think] I did. My plastic lids are clear and I hope to tell you
that it sure /looks/ like cyclones in in the barrels.

My longest single continuous routing run was a bit over three
hours - when I used a 1/2" bit to true (flatten) my ShopBot's MDF
work surface. I removed about 1/32" of MDF from the entire 49" x
97" sheet with the shop all closed up (it was too boring to watch
so I went out to gab and drink coffee with a few of the pilots.)
When the run finished I'd expected to see halos around the
ceiling bulbs and a fine layer of dust on everything. There was a
fair amount of MDF dust in the barrels (after all, I'd reduced
about 148 cubic inches of solid MDF to dust) but none elsewhere -
the air was clear and there weren't any halos.

This in spite of a /hole/ in the upper DC bag - and the inside of
the DC bags were still clean. HF did finally send me a
replacement for the bag damaged when my DC was shipped; but I
haven't much worried about installing it.

As far as I've been able to tell, the only part of the DC I
really need is the motor/impeller assembly; and I've given some
thought to building a box on wheels to hold the barrels (inside
the box) and support the motor and impeller (on top).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Han wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote in news:YEHnd.1$pn3.2625
@news.uswest.net:

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably
work for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look
it over for ideas at:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

I'm interested in the HF dust collector, such as the one you
describe on your webpage above, but am disappointed at the 30
micron bags it seems to come with.

Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that
would fit on this HF machine?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

Han...

I'm afraid I can't help much. I'm even considering /removing/ the
bags completely from my DC to see if it'll move more air without
them - and still not draw dust right through my separators.

There's been previous discussion on the wreck about filter bags
for this machine and, to tell the truth, I haven't paid much
attention. You might try a Google groups search on "HF filter bag
group:rec.woodworking" (without the quotation marks.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Morris Dovey wrote in
:

Han wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote in news:YEHnd.1$pn3.2625
@news.uswest.net:

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably
work for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look
it over for ideas at:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

I'm interested in the HF dust collector, such as the one you
describe on your webpage above, but am disappointed at the 30
micron bags it seems to come with.

Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that
would fit on this HF machine?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

Han...

I'm afraid I can't help much. I'm even considering /removing/ the
bags completely from my DC to see if it'll move more air without
them - and still not draw dust right through my separators.

There's been previous discussion on the wreck about filter bags
for this machine and, to tell the truth, I haven't paid much
attention. You might try a Google groups search on "HF filter bag
group:rec.woodworking" (without the quotation marks.)


I bought a heavier 'shaker felt' bag for my Delta (think HF, but Delta
grey) 1.5 hp unit. My local Rockler had ordered some 72" tall ones, and
had them sitting there for two years (you need 10' ceilings), and had
marked them down to maybe $27. The top hangs from a hook in the shop
rafters. (I think there's still 3 or 4 left, BTW)

I've half a can of chips & shavings in the trash can collector, and nothing
in the plastic lower bag. There's dust on the outside of the upper bag,
from running the router, biscuit jointer and some other tools, that aren't
hooked up. The old, single stage system pumped dust through its upper bag,
pretty badly.

Morris' idea about replacing the cart with a shop built version has merit.
I'll wait for pictures, however.

Patriarch

"
Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart your
existing dust collector and mounting the motor and impeller on
top? I mean something like the plastic garbage can lid thing,
only an actual cyclone.

Mark...

Did you visit the link above? What you're asking about is what [I think] I
did. My plastic lids are clear and I hope to tell you that it sure /looks/
like cyclones in in the barrels.


Yes, I guess my question was can I use the funnel-shaped cyclone in the
manner that you did, with the garbage cans. Incidentally, after seeing your
site, I ordered one of the clear ones to try....will it work ok on a
galvanized trashcan?

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:47:06 GMT, Han wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote in news:YEHnd.1$pn3.2625
:

I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ftý shop) and you can look it over for
ideas at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html


Hi Morris:

I'm an admirer of yours (lurking fashion) and I'm interested in the HF dust
collector, such as the one you describe on your webpage above, but am
disappointed at the 30 micron bags it seems to come with.

Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that would fit on
this HF machine?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

Thanks in advance!

Just a note that will get flamed, but....
I have a whole 3 days experience with the HF unit with the 30 micron
bags.. I say bags because as far as I can see, both bags are
identical.. lol
I hooked it up to the RAS and moved the DC into the path of a
convenient sunbeam... cut a 3' scrap piece of 1/4 hardboard (what I
seem to get the finest dust from on the saw) into 2 or 3" slices and
had my neighbor watch the DC bag... he saw no floating particles.
I know this isn't scientific, but the results were a LOT better than I
expected..

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:10:10 GMT, "mark" wrote:


I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look it over for ideas
at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart your existing dust
collector and mounting the motor and impeller on top? I mean something like
the plastic garbage can lid thing, only an actual cyclone.

no need to tear apart anything... the cyclone goes in between the DC
and whatever it's sucking dust from...

it's just a garbage can with 2 hose connections, at least on of which
should have a 90 degree elbow inside the can to make it swirl..

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:33:45 +0800, Old Nick
wrote:

Nick.. as a Ken Vaughn hero worshiper, I've adopted his dust
collection system...

1) window fan blowing out of shop if possible...

2) DC connected to whatever is running, if possible..

3) Air filtration system using blower and large filters to clean small
particles out of the air..


On 16 Nov 2004 04:49:40 -0800, (mnterpfan) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Rant on. HTH.

One thing to remember. A good cyclone will stop a heck of a lot. In
fact I saw where the 'standard" bags on a DC are a waste of time if
you have a good cyclone!

.......but.....and a big but...there are really fine bits (5 micron
and below) that get through.........and the standard bags are "not
needed" because they do not stop exactly these fine bits! It's being
found that these fine bits are what really damages your lungs. So if
you have a good cyclone (or not!), then you need proper filters on the
outlet, not the bags that come with the DCs. Probably the ideal is
cyclone, bags, then fine filter. Cyclone stops the bits, bag stops a
bit more, last filter stops the real nasties. Each one is easier to
"clean" than the next one. Final filter may not be cleanable at all.

There are filters called HEPA. High Efficiency Particulate Arrestance.
Some filters are _called_ HEPA. Others _are_ HEPA, AFAICS. These are
medical grade. "Boy in a bubble" stuff.

However, I have been advised that you do not really need HEPA filters
for shop use. They are often expensive, small in area (less time
before they need replacing as they clog), and often not reusable.
There are industrial filters, that go down to .5 micron particle size,
that are "concertinaed" to give huge area, and are a lot cheaper than
HEPA per "cub ft of stopped dust", so to speak. Check with an
industrial filter supply. That's where I went, and the guy was quite
helpful. He could have sold me HEPA at twice the price, but was
advising what he thought were better solutions for the real world.

Also remember that any filter system will need maintenance, and to be
kept free-flowing. A lot of people say that bag filters increase in
effectivness as they clog up, because the dust stuck in the weave acts
as a better filter. But of course this results in reduced flow, so you
lose a lot of the effect.

Rant off

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:10:10 GMT, "mark" wrote:


I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ft² shop) and you can look it over for ideas
at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html

Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart your existing
dust
collector and mounting the motor and impeller on top? I mean something
like
the plastic garbage can lid thing, only an actual cyclone.

no need to tear apart anything... the cyclone goes in between the DC
and whatever it's sucking dust from...

it's just a garbage can with 2 hose connections, at least on of which
should have a 90 degree elbow inside the can to make it swirl..

Right, I understand that -- let me rephrase -- if I go buy a commercially
made sheetmetal cyclone, I can install it using the same "garbage can"
method?

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:55:46 GMT, "mark" wrote:

Right, I understand that -- let me rephrase -- if I go buy a commercially
made sheetmetal cyclone, I can install it using the same "garbage can"
method?


Yes. The top mount for the blower wheel and motor is a convenience, not a
necessity. The filtering/separation action of the cyclone is due to the dynamics
of the air moving through the cyclone and is not dependent on the location of
the blower.

From a practical standpoint, you may have some difficulty closing off and
sealing the top of the cyclone cylinder and adapting a transition fitting from
the cyclone outlet to the inlet of your blower. But that depends on the design
and construction of the specific cyclone.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

Old Nick,

I'm not quite sure what theory I vaguely proposed. I was asking for
advice on setup options. Specifically, I was interested in the
statement in Torit's literatu "Can be used .... as a pre-cleaner."

I haven't seen any setups that include a powered cyclone feeding into
another powered dust collector. One of my concerns is how the air and
dust will behave between the two impellors. Does the second impellor
mess up the cyclone action in the first one? Is there a danger to
either motor?

For more information, my Jet is a 2hp/230v with a filter canister that
filters to 2micron. It uses clear plastic collection bags. I don't
think that this is what is referred to as standard filtration. The
Torit cyclone is a 2hp/3ph with cabinet base. I believe it to be a
very good industrial grade cyclone. Although I would like to keep
both, it would use a lot of floor space, be very noisy to use both,
use a lot of amperage (50 amp subpanel feeds whole shop), and not be
financially attractive.

Thanks for your advice. It didn't seem like a rant to me. Again, I am
advice seeking, not theory proposing.

Eric
ps email address is non-functioning


Old Nick wrote in message . ..
On 16 Nov 2004 04:49:40 -0800, (mnterpfan) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Rant on. HTH.

One thing to remember. A good cyclone will stop a heck of a lot. In
fact I saw where the 'standard" bags on a DC are a waste of time if
you have a good cyclone!

.......but.....and a big but...there are really fine bits (5 micron
and below) that get through.........and the standard bags are "not
needed" because they do not stop exactly these fine bits! It's being
found that these fine bits are what really damages your lungs. So if
you have a good cyclone (or not!), then you need proper filters on the
outlet, not the bags that come with the DCs. Probably the ideal is
cyclone, bags, then fine filter. Cyclone stops the bits, bag stops a
bit more, last filter stops the real nasties. Each one is easier to
"clean" than the next one. Final filter may not be cleanable at all.

There are filters called HEPA. High Efficiency Particulate Arrestance.
Some filters are _called_ HEPA. Others _are_ HEPA, AFAICS. These are
medical grade. "Boy in a bubble" stuff.

However, I have been advised that you do not really need HEPA filters
for shop use. They are often expensive, small in area (less time
before they need replacing as they clog), and often not reusable.
There are industrial filters, that go down to .5 micron particle size,
that are "concertinaed" to give huge area, and are a lot cheaper than
HEPA per "cub ft of stopped dust", so to speak. Check with an
industrial filter supply. That's where I went, and the guy was quite
helpful. He could have sold me HEPA at twice the price, but was
advising what he thought were better solutions for the real world.

Also remember that any filter system will need maintenance, and to be
kept free-flowing. A lot of people say that bag filters increase in
effectivness as they clog up, because the dust stuck in the weave acts
as a better filter. But of course this results in reduced flow, so you
lose a lot of the effect.

Rant off

I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a
brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was
not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage
can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good
condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom.
Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.

A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone,
with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."

Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my
mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It
seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is
this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term
pre-cleaner.

I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same
picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric

On 22 Nov 2004 04:55:39 -0800, (mnterpfan) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Old Nick,

I'm not quite sure what theory I vaguely proposed.

It's just a silly standard header for the message. Sorry.

Sometimes you will see "XXXX sat down and rattled off the following"
or some such on other people's headers.

You might want to take a peek he

http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm



Han wrote:

Morris Dovey wrote in news:YEHnd.1$pn3.2625
@news.uswest.net:


I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work
for you (mine is in a 2500 ftý shop) and you can look it over for
ideas at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html



Hi Morris:

I'm an admirer of yours (lurking fashion) and I'm interested in the HF dust
collector, such as the one you describe on your webpage above, but am
disappointed at the 30 micron bags it seems to come with.

Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that would fit on
this HF machine?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

Thanks in advance!

No problem. I quite frequently do vaguely propose theories. Rarely are
they right. I misunderstood the context.

Eric

Old Nick wrote:
On 22 Nov 2004 04:55:39 -0800, (mnterpfan) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


Old Nick,

I'm not quite sure what theory I vaguely proposed.


It's just a silly standard header for the message. Sorry.

Sometimes you will see "XXXX sat down and rattled off the following"
or some such on other people's headers.

Pat Barber wrote in news:TOood.954662
:

You might want to take a peek he

http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

Thanks, Pat!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

mark wrote:

Is it possible to install a cyclone without tearing apart
your existing dust collector and mounting the motor and
impeller on top? I mean something like the plastic
garbage can lid thing, only an actual cyclone.

Mark...

Did you visit the link above? What you're asking about is
what [I think] I did. My plastic lids are clear and I hope
to tell you that it sure /looks/ like cyclones in in the
barrels.

Yes, I guess my question was can I use the funnel-shaped
cyclone in the manner that you did, with the garbage cans.
Incidentally, after seeing your site, I ordered one of the
clear ones to try....will it work ok on a galvanized trashcan?

Sorry, I misunderstood - I've never used one of the funnel-shaped
cyclone units...

It should work provided the trash can is the right size. I think
you're going to be pleased.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html