I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

In article .com,
says...

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!


I wouldn't think of it. Buy a hacksaw. A good Lenox or Starrett tubular
high tension frame, and a couple Lenox 24TPI bimetal blades. You can
make 4 cuts in 1/8 x 1 angle in half the time it takes to change the
blade in the miter saw.

Ned Simmons

Ron,

I was going to tell you to go buy a chop saw, but for some reason I
have decided not to
Dave Hall

PS - You might want to consider a used bandsaw......

Ron,
The horror! The horror!
The only real issue is the RPM difference. A abrasive cutoff saw and more
importantly, the abrasive disk is designed for 3200 - 3600 RPM. Most wood
miter saws operate from 4000 to 5400 RPM. Abrasive disks do not work well
out of their operational range.

As for the project, cutting 0.125" x 1.00" angle with a circular saw (I use
a SkillMag77) is a snap and plenty accurate for welding. If you are having
problems, the sawzall will also work fine with the correct blade and proper
speed. (Slower blade speed than wood)

Dave


"Ron M." wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

Why not buy it precut the way you want it from a local machine shop? They
wouldn't charge much for a simple job like this and you have the precision
you want and you haven't changed a blade to something that it wasn't
designed to do.


Good luck, Rich


"Ron M." wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

Go buy a chop saw!!!! Harbor freight runs them on sale for $90 or so.

I ran masonary blades in my 7-1/2" skill saw as well as some metal
cutting blades in both the skill saw and my table saw. Works fine, tears
up the bearings from all the crud flying around. I have two cheap Skill
saws with loose main shaft bearings in my "do something with or toss"
pile. I wouldn't let my good ball bearing Skill saw near an abrasive blade.

One problem you will run into is that use start losing wheel diameter as
it wears. On the smaller 7-1/2" saws you run out of working room very
quickly. Most of the miter saws are 10" so that is less of a problem.
But keep in mind that the chop saws use 14" blades that are MUCH better.

I bought one of the el-cheapo chop saws, switched to some GOOD quality
14" abrsive blades I get at my welding supply place (NOT the HF or HD
quality ones!) and get very nice, very quick cuts. I've even munched
through a 5" 'I' beam in about 120 seconds

Ron M. wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

I've just spent a few minutes thinking about the rooster tail of sparks
that would be flying into my saw, and out of that little DC outlet, and
all the plastic parts that saw's got, and I've come to the conclusion
that I'm not going to think about it any more. I'm sure it would work
but I don't want to experiment with how the saw reacts to it. :-)

Seems like you could cut those pieces with a hacksaw, your tablesaw, or
a used bandsaw like Dave says, and then set up a jig for a grinder or
sander so you could fine-tune the angle to 45. That's what I'd think
about.

No actually I'd think about taking them out to a friend who's got all
kinds of metalworking tools but if he wasn't around I'd think about it.

Go ahead, but first stop and think how much an emergency room visit runs
these days. Metal has to be clamped solid before you even think about
cutting it. Most wood saws have no useful means of clamping angle iron
unless you call those plastic or pot-metal things on the fence clamps.
If your blade snags the angle and it flips away from the fence, there
will be blood and broken parts. Your saw might be damaged too.


Ron M. wrote:
I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

"Ron M." wrote in message

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

How about renting one?

You are thinking like a real home shop machinist now! Kudos for creativity.
Many of us have found that any kind of abrasive saw is suboptimal for home
use. They are loud and messy and unsuitable for stock of much thickness. I
have had offered to me 2 different metal-cutting chop saws. I brought one
home and ran it a couple of times and then gave it back even though it was
free to me. Those are really made for cutting metal studs, which are basically
sheet metal. They didn't work at all on 1" steel square bar -- I hit a hard
spot and it just got harder and in the end the saw wouldn't cut it. The little
4x6" band saws are much quieter, cleaner and safer.

If you want an abrasive saw, you might look around your local area first for
a used one. I see them all the time as guys buy them thinking what you're
thinking, and then they realize their limitations and then they try to sell
them and then they realize there isn't much market so if they're smart then
they give them away or really really lower the price. My target price would
be $20 or less but only if the saw looked new, and only if I were you.

The market may be different where you live.

You might find the 4x6 FAQ interesting:

http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html

GWE

Ron M. wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

I use one of those cheap adjustable mitre boxes made for cutting wood by
hand. With a fine tooth blade and some lubricant, it will cut mild steel and
aluminium just fine. A lot of the time it is quicker to setup and use than
my (unmentionable) bandsaw ...

I just don't use the abrasive cut off stuff because of the mess - in fact I
don't do any sort of grinding in my workshop because of the danger to all
the other tools.

Dave



Posted Via Nuthinbutnews.Com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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why not use a hacksaw?

TeamCasa wrote:
Ron,
The horror! The horror!
The only real issue is the RPM difference. A abrasive cutoff saw and more
importantly, the abrasive disk is designed for 3200 - 3600 RPM. Most wood
miter saws operate from 4000 to 5400 RPM. Abrasive disks do not work well
out of their operational range.

In fact they may shatter and do shrapnel damage to many things in the
room including. But an interesting idea never the less.
Ken

I've done it. No problem - except.. you must take off the exhaust bag
first, if it's so equipped. Otherwise it'll burst into flames. Trust me -
I know.

Dave



"Ron M." wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with.

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here.

You seem to be answering your own quesions. Why not try it out and
let us know the results?

"the abrasive disk is designed for 3200 - 3600 RPM."

Where are you getting this? Most 7" abrasive wheels have a Max RPM of
6000 to 10,000.

Good advice on here, though.

Ron M.

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw"

how about go rent a chopsaw for a day?



or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.


abrasive wheels for steel are designed to be used with brisk pressure.
light pressure and going slow will overheat the metal and wear the
wheel quickly.



Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here.


yep.



The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them?

dust collection for miter saws is difficult at best and a black art
most of the time....




Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

it's more than the metal shavings. it's also the grit from the blade.
together they'll quickly trash the turntable bearings, the chop arm
bearings and the motor bearings on your aluminum miter saw. if the saw
is a throwaway, go for it. if you need to make good cuts in wood with
that saw, don't do it.





This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

it'll work better than you think.




Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

look, dude, the correct answer to your question is go buy a chop saw.
but don't listen to me, first go trash your miter saw, then go buy a
chop saw *and* a miter saw. and I'll say "I told you so" in
advance....








Thanks,
Ron M.

For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Consider coping the angle iron instead, it's easier to get
a square joint. You can cut back the top so the whole other
side sits square against the remaining vertical portion, or
you can cut the top of the 2nd side piece so that the vertical
part of the piece slides under the top of the first
piece, and round the corner so that it fits in the fillet
radius. I didn't explain that very well, but I think there's
some pictures of this out on the web, maybe even in the
dropbox...

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me
to "go buy a chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever.

Go buy a thin cut-off disk and a 4-1/2" mini grinder. :^)
At least it's cheaper than a chop-saw, and it has 1001 other
uses... I can't count the number of times mine has saved my
backside.

--Glenn Lyford

Grant Erwin wrote:

....
...ran it a couple of times and then gave it back ....

I use one (14" Makita) all the time for making clean cuts prior to
welding...

Good saw and good blade will cut 1/4" mild steel easily...

"Ron M." wrote in message
oups.com...
snip-----.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something.

Likely not enough to protect from the accumulated swarf----especially the
shed abrasive, which will continue to do damage as it's abraded by objects
that come in contact with the saw----


Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them?

I think that's an outstanding idea. Be sure to keep a fire extinguisher
real close, though. When was the last time you vacuumed a stream of hot
sparks and didn't end up with your vacuum cleaner, the one that is normally
filled with wood chips and dust, on fire?

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.


Sorry. "go buy a chop saw"!!!

It's not that your miter saw isn't capable of doing the work, it's that it
isn't capable of doing it without doing some damage to the saw. If you use
it long enough for metal, it won't be worth a damn for use on wood any
longer. Then you can buy a chop saw and a miter saw. Won't that be fun!

It all boils down to how much pride you have in your tools. If you don't
mind having them look like they've been abused, I can't see why you couldn't
get by with the occasional poor application.

Harold

"TeamCasa" wrote in message
...
Ron,
The horror! The horror!
The only real issue is the RPM difference. A abrasive cutoff saw and more
importantly, the abrasive disk is designed for 3200 - 3600 RPM. Most wood
miter saws operate from 4000 to 5400 RPM. Abrasive disks do not work well
out of their operational range.

Assuming that information is correct, the use of an abrasive wheel would be
a horrible idea. Over revving abrasive wheels of any kind is a terrible
idea. Exploding wheels have a way of killing people. Before choosing to
run the setup, it would be a very good idea to verify the speed of the saw
to insure the cutoff wheel was run within safe limits. Very nice catch,
Dave. That one got past me.

Harold

If you are cutting a small amount of soft metal, no big deal. The
problem using wood-cutting tools to cut metal is that they cut too
fast. Metal needs a slower cutting speed than wood. When I stated
"soft" metal I'm referring to metals such as aluminum, not steel, OK?

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

You beat me to it!!!!

Article didn't show on my server, so piggybacking.

Ron M. wrote:

[...]

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

I've done such a thing with a hand-held circular saw, abrasive wheel,
bit of wood, and a clamp. I clamped the wood on as a simple guide and
held the saw's guide against it. Pressed pretty hard to keep it put.
If you can't clamp it on you can probably build a little jig since
you'll be doing this regularly.
Don't go slow to baby the saw, move fast. If the saw will take it
it'll take it. If the saw won't, going slow won't save it since you'll
simply spend more time abusing it.
I didn't do it often enough to gauge wear on the saw due to dust, but
I figure if you blast it out with compressed air when you put it away
you'll be alright.
Watch the sparks.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

I bought a cheap, old, pawnshop special for just this purpose--an old
10" B&D (IIRC) mitre saw with a steel table and fence. I think I paid
less than $40 for it. Use it exclusively for cutting mild steel and
other such metal, an infrequent operation. I scrounged a thrown-away
stainless steel cabinet on which the saw sits--it even has a ss
backstop/splash guard to keep some of the spray in check.

I wouldn't think of cutting steel with the 12" Delta I use when running
trim, though I have cut aluminum sheet (siding, soffit, etc.) on it. I
figure the cast aluminum on the saw won't be damaged by the aluminum
"sawdust" (but the bearings could be an issue--have to think about that
one).

Don't forget a face shield, gloves and ear protection--cutting steel
with abrasive blades is a loud and dirty proposition.

Dan

Well, I have done this successfully with my 10" Craftsman wood chop saw
fitted with a 10 inch disc, cutting 3/16 angle iron a few times. My main
worry was the risk of fire. Wear facial and head protection, remove all dust
collection devices, somehow clamp the steel well. Expect to have pits in any
prescription glasses caused by tiny bits of molten steel. I definitely
wouldn't hook it up to your shop vac, as the vacuum would draw red hot metal
bits into a dust collection trap and likely burst into flames, hidden from
view. To tell you the truth, I didn't even consider the possibility of
burning out the motor or burning plastic parts or causing the disc to
shatter because of fast rotation. That didn't happen, though I'll think
twice before I do it again. I thought those discs were rated for high
pm -- they work differently than a metal bandsaw. Maybe check the rating on
the disc.

Dave

"Ron M." wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Thanks,
Ron M.

"Dave" wrote in message
news:4xtyd.564328$nl.362763@pd7tw3no...
Well, I have done this successfully with my 10" Craftsman wood chop
saw
fitted with a 10 inch disc, cutting 3/16 angle iron a few times. My main
worry was the risk of fire. Wear facial and head protection, remove all
dust
collection devices, somehow clamp the steel well. Expect to have pits in
any
prescription glasses caused by tiny bits of molten steel. I definitely
wouldn't hook it up to your shop vac, as the vacuum would draw red hot
metal
bits into a dust collection trap and likely burst into flames, hidden from
view. To tell you the truth, I didn't even consider the possibility of
burning out the motor or burning plastic parts or causing the disc to
shatter because of fast rotation. That didn't happen, though I'll think
twice before I do it again. I thought those discs were rated for high
pm -- they work differently than a metal bandsaw. Maybe check the rating
on
the disc.


Likewise, I've done it with both a chop saw and a circular saw. The
advantage with the circular saw is that you can set the depth and make a
couple of passes to get the cut on harder stuff. I've never used my
compound miter for this, simply because the old chop saw is there and handy.
Never wanted to get my miter saw that dirty just to hack a piece of steel.
If that's all I had though, I'd cut with it. There's not a lot of
difference between the two saws and it has never hurt my chop saw to cut
steel. I've cut quite a bit of steel with it and if bearings were going to
go then mine should probably have gone by now. Maybe it does accelerate the
wear to some degree, but I'm not even sure I'm ready to believe that just
yet.

My chop saw fence certainly does not look any the worse for wear, so I
shouldn't expect that my miter saw's would either, if I used it. The sparks
generally fly pretty straight back. I'd have to go look at the blades I use
to see exactly what the rpm rating is but I do remember that when I bought
them, I made sure they were rated high enough to put on the chop saw. Not
hard to find at all.

--

-Mike-

Most 12" -14" abrasive wheels are rated for the slower speeds. DAGS
If you were going to put a 7" wheel on your miter saw then it could
certainally handle the speeds.
I go back to my original point, use a Skilsaw, its much safer, faster and
cuts accurate enough for welding, if you can weld worth a darn.

Dave

"Ron M." wrote in message
ups.com...
"the abrasive disk is designed for 3200 - 3600 RPM."

Where are you getting this? Most 7" abrasive wheels have a Max RPM of
6000 to 10,000.

Good advice on here, though.

Ron M.

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Rule NUMBER 1

Do NOT tell the newwgroup what to reply when asking a question. Bad
move, OK?

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Yep! Read some (most) of the other posts. Warned ya!

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
You are thinking like a real home shop machinist now! Kudos for
creativity.
Many of us have found that any kind of abrasive saw is suboptimal for home
use. They are loud and messy and unsuitable for stock of much thickness. I
have had offered to me 2 different metal-cutting chop saws. I brought one
home and ran it a couple of times and then gave it back even though it was
free to me. Those are really made for cutting metal studs, which are
basically
sheet metal. They didn't work at all on 1" steel square bar -- I hit a
hard
spot and it just got harder and in the end the saw wouldn't cut it. The
little
4x6" band saws are much quieter, cleaner and safer.

You might have work hardened the material, or loaded up the abrasive wheel.
Everett suggests using a piece of an old abrasive blade, firmly clamped, to
dress the wheel. I prefer a band saw, of course, but have cut solid stock
with abrasive saws without a problem (unless you count the noise, smell,
sparks, etc.!). There is also the fact that some materials are too hard to
be cut on a band saw.

"ATP" wrote in message
...

snip---
You might have work hardened the material, or loaded up the abrasive
wheel.
Everett suggests using a piece of an old abrasive blade, firmly clamped,
to
dress the wheel. I prefer a band saw, of course, but have cut solid stock
with abrasive saws without a problem (unless you count the noise, smell,
sparks, etc.!). There is also the fact that some materials are too hard to
be cut on a band saw.

Nah! My money says he was using a silicon carbide blade when he should have
been using an aluminum oxide one. The reactions he described fit perfectly.
Grinding wheels have no respect for work hardening--it just doesn't happen,
not as the wheel sees it, anyway.

Wheels intended for masonry are silicon carbide. They should *never* be
used on ferrous material aside from cast iron. It does no harm, they just
don't cut very long. You can't dress them often enough to make the
difference, either. In spite of the fact that silicon carbide is much
harder than aluminum oxide, it is easily outperformed by aluminum oxide in
ferrous materials because it isn't soluble in steel, very unlike silicon
carbide.

Harold

Thanks
I was wondering why I needed masonry and metal wheels for my angle grinder.
Karl

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"ATP" wrote in message
...

snip---
You might have work hardened the material, or loaded up the abrasive
wheel.
Everett suggests using a piece of an old abrasive blade, firmly clamped,
to
dress the wheel. I prefer a band saw, of course, but have cut solid stock
with abrasive saws without a problem (unless you count the noise, smell,
sparks, etc.!). There is also the fact that some materials are too hard
to
be cut on a band saw.

Nah! My money says he was using a silicon carbide blade when he should
have
been using an aluminum oxide one. The reactions he described fit
perfectly.
Grinding wheels have no respect for work hardening--it just doesn't
happen,
not as the wheel sees it, anyway.

Wheels intended for masonry are silicon carbide. They should *never* be
used on ferrous material aside from cast iron. It does no harm, they just
don't cut very long. You can't dress them often enough to make the
difference, either. In spite of the fact that silicon carbide is much
harder than aluminum oxide, it is easily outperformed by aluminum oxide in
ferrous materials because it isn't soluble in steel, very unlike silicon
carbide.

Harold

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"ATP" wrote in message
...

snip---
You might have work hardened the material, or loaded up the abrasive
wheel.
Everett suggests using a piece of an old abrasive blade, firmly clamped,
to
dress the wheel. I prefer a band saw, of course, but have cut solid
stock
with abrasive saws without a problem (unless you count the noise, smell,
sparks, etc.!). There is also the fact that some materials are too hard
to
be cut on a band saw.

Nah! My money says he was using a silicon carbide blade when he should
have
been using an aluminum oxide one. The reactions he described fit
perfectly.
Grinding wheels have no respect for work hardening--it just doesn't
happen,
not as the wheel sees it, anyway.

Wheels intended for masonry are silicon carbide. They should *never* be
used on ferrous material aside from cast iron. It does no harm, they just
don't cut very long. You can't dress them often enough to make the
difference, either. In spite of the fact that silicon carbide is much
harder than aluminum oxide, it is easily outperformed by aluminum oxide in
ferrous materials because it isn't soluble in steel, very unlike silicon
carbide.

Harold

I've always used ferrous metal cutoff wheels but it seems as though a lack
of pressure or power leads to a very hard area to cut through. Could be just
from the wheel loading up, though. The cheap 110 volt Ryobi type cutoff saws
don't have nearly as much power as the more professional abrasive cutoff
saws. I think that contributes to the wheel just spinning in the cut, if you
try to keep the saw moving through a solid section, it just bogs down.

"ATP" wrote in message
news snip-----
I've always used ferrous metal cutoff wheels but it seems as though a lack
of pressure or power leads to a very hard area to cut through. Could be
just
from the wheel loading up, though. The cheap 110 volt Ryobi type cutoff
saws
don't have nearly as much power as the more professional abrasive cutoff
saws. I think that contributes to the wheel just spinning in the cut, if
you
try to keep the saw moving through a solid section, it just bogs down.


What little experience I've had with an abrasive cutoff saw pretty much
parallels yours. Assuming you have the proper blade, it is my suggestion
that the wheel loads up, which prevents cutting. Higher pressure tends to
break down the wheel sllightly, exposing new, sharp grains, and eliminating
the loaded surface. Without the break down of the wheel, it begins acting
like a bearing and doesn't cut. It might be difficult for the operator to
distinguish between a loaded wheel or a glazed one, due to dissolution of
the abrasive, which dulls it excessively. For best results, make sure
you're using the proper wheel for the task at hand. It *really does* make a
difference.

Harold

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
ink.net...
snip----
My chop saw fence certainly does not look any the worse for wear, so I
shouldn't expect that my miter saw's would either, if I used it.

Most of the miter saws I've seen are made from aluminum, whereas all of the
chop saws I've seen are made from steel. Assuming I owned a miter saw, I'm
not convinced I'd want to rough up the fence cutting steel (hot rolled
especially, and rebar specifically) then expect the fence to not rough up
finished wood products like moldings afterwards. The aluminum is soft
enough that it would not go through the experience without some damage,
unlike steel components. Seems to me it would be a little like washing
your car with sandpaper. Thoughts?

Harold

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

.... Assuming I owned a miter saw, I'm
not convinced I'd want to rough (it) up ... cutting steel ...

FULLY in agreement...if I were to use a miter saw for steel, it
definitely would not be one I intended to do anything of any precision
with again later...

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
ink.net...
snip----
My chop saw fence certainly does not look any the worse for wear, so I
shouldn't expect that my miter saw's would either, if I used it.

Most of the miter saws I've seen are made from aluminum, whereas all of
the
chop saws I've seen are made from steel. Assuming I owned a miter saw,
I'm
not convinced I'd want to rough up the fence cutting steel (hot rolled
especially, and rebar specifically) then expect the fence to not rough up
finished wood products like moldings afterwards. The aluminum is soft
enough that it would not go through the experience without some damage,
unlike steel components. Seems to me it would be a little like washing
your car with sandpaper. Thoughts?

Harold



My chop saw is aluminum, just like my miter saw.
--

-Mike-

On 22 Dec 2004 07:50:02 -0800, "Ron M."
wrote:

I want to put an abrasive metal-cutting wheel on a miter saw, to cut
mild steel angle with. Most of this will be 3/32" or 1/8" 1-inch angle.
Some say, "sure, no problem!" while others say, "the horror, the
horror..." The purpose is to cut a few pieces for some welding
projects. For example, cutting some angle steel at 45 degrees to make a
table top.

Now, before this goes any further, please do *NOT* tell me to "go buy a
chop saw" or "buy a used band saw" or whatever. I'm talking about a
miter saw ONLY, OK?

There are supposed to be two main issues with doing this:

First, it overloads the motor. But I don't think this would happen, if
you just use very light pressure and take your time and go slow.

Second, the shavings/sparks can damage the fence and/or the motor
mechanism (bearings). There may be some truth here. The fence shouldn't
be a problem, and I can always cover it with something. Particles? Some
suggest removing the vacuum. How about attaching the nozzle of my shop
vac just behind the blade and letting it catch them? Or maybe putting a
big magnet there, perhaps.

There's are third and fourth issues as well, to wit: Your (I am
assuming) wood-oriented miter saw will be full of shavings and metal
swarf, which tends to be difficult to get out, and will almost
certainly ruin a project eventually. And the other problem is that
most abrasive wheels that I have seen are not flat. The arbor hole is
sometimes as much as a 1/2" offset from the cutting surface, which may
be enough to grind the inside of your guard into smithereens, and will
almost certainly cut a wider (or doubled) groove in the base. Most
tools are engineered to do only what they were designed for, and
cutting metal out of that base plate could very likely cause the
entire piece to fail- and if it does, it will almost certainly be when
you least want it to.

If you're just going to use it for metal, then give it a try. If
you're going to switch it back to wood, I'd be a little concerned
about it.

This isn't something I'll be doing often. Maybe once a month I'll make
3 or 4 cuts, at the most, no more. As I said, 99% is going to be
cutting 45 degree ends in 1/8" X 1" angle, so I can join them together
to make a square corner. That's it.

I use an abrasive blade in my circular saw for straight cuts, but it's
hard to cut accurate angles with it. I also have a Porter-Cable Tiger
sawzall, I don't think that would work well for this kind of cutting,
although I've never tried it.

It should work fine. If you have a bench grinder or belt sander, you
can always touch it up a bit after you cut. I can't imagine that it
would be too tough to make a material-specific miter box out of some
scrap if you're not very good at freehanding it.

You could also just overlap the metal. I don't know what you're
making, but if it's just shop stands, it works fine.

Please give me a tip here, especially if you've actually done it, and
aren't just repeating what you've read or heard. And PLEASE don't tell
me to "go buy a chop saw"!!!

Go buy a chop saw! You know, there are a few other options for
doing this job that are a little more appropriate, and you may or may
not already have the tools- if you don't, then at least they are a bit
cheaper than a dedicated chop saw. The first is a good ol' hacksaw
and a vise or miter box. You specified 1" x 1/8" angle iron, and it's
actually pretty easy to cut that by hand. If you're set on using a
power tool, then why not use an angle grinder? Right now, they're all
on sale, and it's a handy tool to have for all sorts of things. I'm
assuming that you need mitered corners because you are going to weld
the angle iron, and it's nice to have one to clean up the welds before
painting anyhow. And if you have a biscut cutter, you've already got
one. If you don't, you can buy an attachment to use the angle grinder
as a biscut cutter later.

I make all of the stands for my shop tools myself, and they are
usually 1018 (weldable) steel angle iron or square tubing. I'll
admit, I usually use one of my bandsaws at work for cutting the
material, but there have been several times when I wanted to change
the design a little and ended up cutting steel in my shop. In those
cases, the hacksaw is usually my tool of choice (though I just got a
reciprocating saw from my dad for X-mas, so that may change) and it
does a fine job- no really, it does. There's a little more elbow
grease involved, but it usually takes only a couple of minutes. Heck,
I cut up a few 5/8" steel rods for spare tool rests on my lathe last
week while my van was warming up before work. It did a fine job, and
was much easier than you might think! The other option I could think
of is using the course wheel on a bench grinder to chop the angle out.
You'll have to dress the wheel afterwards, but it works ok.

Thanks,
Ron M.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...


I'm not surprised. I likely spoke before putting my head in gear.
When
you consider all the relatively inexpensive tools available to us these
days, I would expect that the vast majority use aluminum, which can be
cast
inexpensively. Why would I expect a chop saw to be any different? I
have an old Milwaukee (chop saw) in storage. The more I think about it,
the
more I think it very well may be aluminum, too. My comments were
flavored by my experiences of working in industry, where serious equipment
is made of iron or steel.

Harold



.... and both my chop saw and my compound miter would fall into the category
of "less than" top end tools. Both serve their purposes well and make
accurate cuts, (to the extent that an old B&D chop saw can make an accurate
cuts), but they certainly fit into the category you speak of.
--

-Mike-