OT - Reflection / Cogitation / Age / Adventure / Woodworking

(this WILL get on topic - honest)

When I was in my early twenties I asked my friends who were in their
fifties, sixties and seventies when they started thinking of themselves
as “adults”. To a person, the response was “I haven’t - yet.” Then each
added his or her own qualifications to the response. The consensus
came down to “I can be an adult when I HAVE to be an adult.” Adultness
is contextual.

Now, approaching the middle of that age range, and having escaped
“gainful employment”, been outgrown of parenthood, and long since
despoused, I understand what my elder friends meant. This is a nuanced
thing. Not being an adult is not the same as being childish, but
rather, “child like” - the ability to see things as new and fascinating
and interesting, with an attitude of “I want to learn to do that!”.
Like Adultness, Child Likeness also seems contextual.

So I began thinking about this Child Likeness thing. What distinguishes
it from childishness? The word “reflection” came to mind, followed by
“cogitation”. With more experience there’s awareness of more options
and that leads to cogitation. Of the various ways to do something,
which of the ones I know would work best here or should I look for
another way? Think I’ll cogitate on that some.

Perhaps woodworking is so appealing because it is often a context which
triggers Child Likeness.

Oh, look at the way this piece of wood plays with the light!
It’d be PERFECT for a (insert - drawer front, box lid, cabinet
door panel, magic wand handle ...). If I put this wood around it?
That’d look NICE. I can just (rip, miter, dado, rabbet, plane,
chisel, bead, chamfer, mortise / tenon, spline, peg, dovetail,
carve, oil, shellac, stain, varnish) ...

The shop becomes Never Never Land, where time has no
importance. Sawdust and curlies become Pixie Dust. Snipe,
Tear Out and Blotchie are just some of the evil pirates lurking
about,
commanded by
- dare I say his name? -
Captain Kickback!
(You thought I was going to say “Bay Area Dave” didn’t you?)
Can OOPS be laying in wait behind this ON switch?

With a #7 and marking gauge in hand, chisel, with plastic
end cap in place, stuck in my belt the adventure begins!

But first,
I think I’ll do
some
cogitating.

Ring any bells or are you all ‘Dults?

charlie b
fun stuff this woodworking thing

"charlie b" wrote in message

But first,
I think I'll do
some
cogitating.

My only comment to your cogitating is that as I'm starting to realize I
turned 50 a few months back, and wondering how I got to be this age, I still
know I'm 18 inside and trying to figure out why the outside of me feels
considerably older.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"charlie b" wrote in message

But first,
I think I'll do
some
cogitating.

My only comment to your cogitating is that as I'm starting to realize I
turned 50 a few months back, and wondering how I got to be this age, I
still
know I'm 18 inside and trying to figure out why the outside of me feels
considerably older.

All my friends who are in their fifties say they're "still 17" inside their
skulls. They've been saying it for at least 20 years...

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:25:24 +0900, "Adam Weber"
calmly ranted:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"charlie b" wrote in message

But first,
I think I'll do
some
cogitating.

My only comment to your cogitating is that as I'm starting to realize I
turned 50 a few months back, and wondering how I got to be this age, I
still
know I'm 18 inside and trying to figure out why the outside of me feels
considerably older.

All my friends who are in their fifties say they're "still 17" inside their
skulls. They've been saying it for at least 20 years...

I'm an 18 y/o kid in a 51 y/o body with a 90 y/o back.


-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

charlie b wrote in
:

snip

Ring any bells or are you all ‘Dults?

charlie b
fun stuff this woodworking thing

There's a whole bell choir playing right now...

The design, craft and showing off of the output is better than therapy for
the middle-aged 'dorker.

Of course, it often pays to have a good chiropractor near by.

Patriarch,
set to approach some tan oak with a freshly honed, well-used #8 this
morning.

In article , says...
Perhaps woodworking is so appealing because it is often a context which
triggers Child Likeness.

Works with model RR'ing too :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Fri, Nov 19, 2004, 11:10pm (EST-3) (charlie=A0b)
still isn't old enough:
snip I asked my friends who were in their fifties, sixties and
seventies when they started thinking of themselves as "adults". snip

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.



JOAT
Measure twice, cut once, swear repeatedly.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:10:17 -0800, charlie b
wrote:

OT - Reflection / Cogitation / Age / Adventure / Woodworking

(this WILL get on topic - honest)

When I was in my early twenties I asked my friends who were in their
fifties, sixties and seventies when they started thinking of themselves
as “adults”. To a person, the response was “I haven’t - yet.” Then each
added his or her own qualifications to the response. The consensus
came down to “I can be an adult when I HAVE to be an adult.” Adultness
is contextual.

Now, approaching the middle of that age range, and having escaped
“gainful employment”, been outgrown of parenthood, and long since
despoused, I understand what my elder friends meant. This is a nuanced
thing. Not being an adult is not the same as being childish, but
rather, “child like” - the ability to see things as new and fascinating
and interesting, with an attitude of “I want to learn to do that!”.
Like Adultness, Child Likeness also seems contextual.

So I began thinking about this Child Likeness thing. What distinguishes
it from childishness? The word “reflection” came to mind, followed by
“cogitation”. With more experience there’s awareness of more options
and that leads to cogitation. Of the various ways to do something,
which of the ones I know would work best here or should I look for
another way? Think I’ll cogitate on that some.

Perhaps woodworking is so appealing because it is often a context which
triggers Child Likeness.

Oh, look at the way this piece of wood plays with the light!
It’d be PERFECT for a (insert - drawer front, box lid, cabinet
door panel, magic wand handle ...). If I put this wood around it?
That’d look NICE. I can just (rip, miter, dado, rabbet, plane,
chisel, bead, chamfer, mortise / tenon, spline, peg, dovetail,
carve, oil, shellac, stain, varnish) ...

The shop becomes Never Never Land, where time has no
importance. Sawdust and curlies become Pixie Dust. Snipe,
Tear Out and Blotchie are just some of the evil pirates lurking
about,
commanded by
- dare I say his name? -
Captain Kickback!
(You thought I was going to say “Bay Area Dave” didn’t you?)
Can OOPS be laying in wait behind this ON switch?

With a #7 and marking gauge in hand, chisel, with plastic
end cap in place, stuck in my belt the adventure begins!

But first,
I think I’ll do
some
cogitating.

Ring any bells or are you all ‘Dults?

If you can reach 50 without growing up you don't have to!
--RC (who did it a decade ago)


charlie b
fun stuff this woodworking thing

Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?

Seems all of my life, Mom was 40 and Dad was 42. A few years later,
Dad is gone and Mom is 77 years old. Just does'nt seem possible. I
am close to 50. How can this be? I still think I am 12, and my wife
will testify to that. I lost a brother when I was 12 and he was 18.
I now have lived almost three times his age, but I am still his little
brother and he will be my older brother no matter how long I shall
live. But time stands still for no man they say.

I am not the person I was at 18 or nor the person at 40. I hope I am
getting better, maybe just different! Life is an adventure and
everyday seems to present more challenges and of cource more rewards.
No one get's out alive.
Just Ramblings of an old man that could not sleep and it is 6:00 am in
the morning.
take care
Mike from American Sycamore

"Mike at American Sycamore" wrote in message
om...
Seems all of my life, Mom was 40 and Dad was 42. A few years later,
Dad is gone and Mom is 77 years old. Just does'nt seem possible. I
am close to 50. How can this be? I still think I am 12, and my wife
will testify to that. I lost a brother when I was 12 and he was 18.
I now have lived almost three times his age, but I am still his little
brother and he will be my older brother no matter how long I shall
live. But time stands still for no man they say.

I am not the person I was at 18 or nor the person at 40. I hope I am
getting better, maybe just different! Life is an adventure and
everyday seems to present more challenges and of cource more rewards.
No one get's out alive.
Just Ramblings of an old man that could not sleep and it is 6:00 am in
the morning.
take care
Mike from American Sycamore

I relate to that Mike. When I was 50 I felt the same, but now at 59, I am
beginning to notice that I am no longer as young as I was. Seems that the
older you get, the more you feel it.
CC

In article ,
says...
I relate to that Mike. When I was 50 I felt the same, but now at 59, I am
beginning to notice that I am no longer as young as I was. Seems that the
older you get, the more you feel it.

At 67, I look in the mirror and think that can't possibly be me :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Larry Blanchard wrote:

In article
,
says...

I relate to that Mike. When I was 50 I felt the same, but
now at 59, I am beginning to notice that I am no longer as
young as I was. Seems that the older you get, the more you
feel it.

At 67, I look in the mirror and think that can't possibly be
me :-).

What really burns my toast is going to the mall and having some
perky young thing smile and hold the door for me. )-:

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

What really burns my toast is going to the mall and having some
perky young thing smile and hold the door for me. )-:

Or the supermarket, after the checker has bagged your groceries: "You need
some help out with that?"

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Swingman wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message


What really burns my toast is going to the mall and having some
perky young thing smile and hold the door for me. )-:


Or the supermarket, after the checker has bagged your groceries: "You need
some help out with that?"

I appreciate the hell out of it as I smile and say "no thanks". Just
made a quick airplane round trip to help my dad get home after a three
week visit. He's 91. See myself. Just say "no thanks" and be glad
it's there if you ever need it. It's closer than you think.

bob g.

"Mike at American Sycamore" wrote in message
om...
Seems all of my life, Mom was 40 and Dad was 42. A few years later,
Dad is gone and Mom is 77 years old. Just does'nt seem possible. I
am close to 50. How can this be? I still think I am 12, and my wife
will testify to that.

I think as we get older (59 for me) we feel the same way you mention. I
have relatives that seem to have not changed at all since I was a kid; they
were always old! You look at things differently as you get older, you
appreciate life more than "things" you appreciate people more, and you learn
the difference between being smart and having widsom.

A side benefit is the women. When you were 18, a woman of 25 was old and
you did not appreciate them. When you were 30, women of 40 were too old to
appreciate. When you are 50+, they all look good from 18 right up to our
present age. Just so many more to look at and ah, appreciate.
Ed

Then there's the providential presbyopia.

Just about the time women your age begin to develop wrinkles, you can't see
'em. Neat how that works.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

A side benefit is the women. When you were 18, a woman of 25 was old and
you did not appreciate them. When you were 30, women of 40 were too old
to
appreciate. When you are 50+, they all look good from 18 right up to our
present age. Just so many more to look at and ah, appreciate.
Ed

Ed Pawloski comments:

think as we get older (59 for me) we feel the same way you mention. I
have relatives that seem to have not changed at all since I was a kid; they
were always old! You look at things differently as you get older, you
appreciate life more than "things" you appreciate people more, and you learn
the difference between being smart and having widsom.

I'd like to be 59 again, but, on balance, 32 is preferable.

As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27; I just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the kidney, though he has
a fighting chance.

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are fewer to
appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.

Charlie Self
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity
has made them good." H. L. Mencken

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:16:19 +0000, Charlie Self wrote:

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are fewer
to appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.

Seems like the older we get, it becomes apparent how long it took to
accomplish whatever it was we did, and how short a time we are here to
accomplish anything. The end of the road comes into view, which somehow
makes time speed up. As a teenager, I still remember thinking what a
fossil I'd be when the year 2000 rolled around, and I can't figure out how
it came and went in the blink of an eye.

-Doug

On 28 Nov 2004 00:16:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:



As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27; I just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the kidney, though he has
a fighting chance.

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are fewer to
appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.


I remember, as a younger person, actually thinking that the following
was about bells.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE BELLS
by Edgar Allan Poe
1849

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I
Hear the sledges with the bells-
Silver bells!
What a world of merriment their melody foretells!
How they tinkle, tinkle, tinkle,
In the icy air of night!
While the stars that oversprinkle
All the heavens, seem to twinkle
With a crystalline delight;
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the tintinnabulation that so musically wells
From the bells, bells, bells, bells,
Bells, bells, bells-
From the jingling and the tinkling of the bells.

II
Hear the mellow wedding bells,
Golden bells!
What a world of happiness their harmony foretells!
Through the balmy air of night
How they ring out their delight!
From the molten-golden notes,
And an in tune,
What a liquid ditty floats
To the turtle-dove that listens, while she gloats
On the moon!
Oh, from out the sounding cells,
What a gush of euphony voluminously wells!
How it swells!
How it dwells
On the Future! how it tells
Of the rapture that impels
To the swinging and the ringing
Of the bells, bells, bells,
Of the bells, bells, bells,bells,
Bells, bells, bells-
To the rhyming and the chiming of the bells!

III
Hear the loud alarum bells-
Brazen bells!
What a tale of terror, now, their turbulency tells!
In the startled ear of night
How they scream out their affright!
Too much horrified to speak,
They can only shriek, shriek,
Out of tune,
In a clamorous appealing to the mercy of the fire,
In a mad expostulation with the deaf and frantic fire,
Leaping higher, higher, higher,
With a desperate desire,
And a resolute endeavor,
Now–now to sit or never,
By the side of the pale-faced moon.
Oh, the bells, bells, bells!
What a tale their terror tells
Of Despair!
How they clang, and clash, and roar!
What a horror they outpour
On the bosom of the palpitating air!
Yet the ear it fully knows,
By the twanging,
And the clanging,
How the danger ebbs and flows:
Yet the ear distinctly tells,
In the jangling,
And the wrangling,
How the danger sinks and swells,
By the sinking or the swelling in the anger of the bells-
Of the bells-
Of the bells, bells, bells,bells,
Bells, bells, bells-
In the clamor and the clangor of the bells!

IV
Hear the tolling of the bells-
Iron Bells!
What a world of solemn thought their monody compels!
In the silence of the night,
How we shiver with affright
At the melancholy menace of their tone!
For every sound that floats
From the rust within their throats
Is a groan.
And the people–ah, the people-
They that dwell up in the steeple,
All Alone
And who, tolling, tolling, tolling,
In that muffled monotone,
Feel a glory in so rolling
On the human heart a stone-
They are neither man nor woman-
They are neither brute nor human-
They are Ghouls:
And their king it is who tolls;
And he rolls, rolls, rolls,
Rolls
A paean from the bells!
And his merry bosom swells
With the paean of the bells!
And he dances, and he yells;
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the paean of the bells-
Of the bells:
Keeping time, time, time,
In a sort of Runic rhyme,
To the throbbing of the bells-
Of the bells, bells, bells-
To the sobbing of the bells;
Keeping time, time, time,
As he knells, knells, knells,
In a happy Runic rhyme,
To the rolling of the bells-
Of the bells, bells, bells:
To the tolling of the bells,
Of the bells, bells, bells, bells-
Bells, bells, bells-
To the moaning and the groaning of the bells.

THE END


"listen, time passes..."



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On 28 Nov 2004 00:16:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Ed Pawloski comments:

think as we get older (59 for me) we feel the same way you mention. I
have relatives that seem to have not changed at all since I was a kid; they
were always old! You look at things differently as you get older, you
appreciate life more than "things" you appreciate people more, and you learn
the difference between being smart and having widsom.

I'd like to be 59 again, but, on balance, 32 is preferable.

As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27; I just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show.

Very sorry to hear that. I corresponded with him some time ago; he seemed
very friendly and willing to help

It has already passed.

--
Regards,
Mike
Flower Mound, Texas
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
wrote:
"listen, time passes..."



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Seems like the older we get, it becomes apparent how long it took to
accomplish whatever it was we did, and how short a time we are here to
accomplish anything. The end of the road comes into view, which somehow
makes time speed up. As a teenager, I still remember thinking what a
fossil I'd be when the year 2000 rolled around, and I can't figure out how
it came and went in the blink of an eye.

One of my all-time favorite short stories was by Stephen King, and it was
about that very thing. It was called "My Pretty Pony." If you ever get the
chance to look it up, it puts some perspective on it.

On 28 Nov 2004 00:16:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:


As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27; I just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the kidney, though he has
a fighting chance.

We also steadily lose the people we knew about. Looking
at it from an egoentric point of view,we lose a big part of the
context of our lives and much of what we shared with and
bound us to others.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On 28 Nov 2004 00:16:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:



As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27;
I just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the kidney, though
he has
a fighting chance.

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are
fewer to
appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.


I remember, as a younger person, actually thinking that the following
was about bells.

Made me shiver!

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Ed Pawloski comments:

think as we get older (59 for me) we feel the same way you mention. I
have relatives that seem to have not changed at all since I was a kid;
they
were always old! You look at things differently as you get older, you
appreciate life more than "things" you appreciate people more, and you
learn
the difference between being smart and having widsom.

I'd like to be 59 again, but, on balance, 32 is preferable.

As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October 27; I
just
heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at the Ottawa
woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the kidney, though
he has
a fighting chance.

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are fewer
to
appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.

(1) SWMBO once told her Grandfather, who at 80 was getting pretty frail,
what a marvelous thing it was to live to such an age. His response was that
"No, it isn't. All my friends are gone."

(2) Did anyone happen to catch the JAG show a couple years back when Ernest
Borgnine and a couple other guys played old retired SEAL's making war on a
drug dealer who had gotten his grandson hooked & then died from OD? At the
end of the show he told Rabb "Up here in your head, you're still 20, it's
just that some things move a little slower"(or similar).

I think that can be said of many of us.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:

As we age, we start to lose those we know. Pat Spielman died October
27; I just heard that Danny Proulx died of an apparent heart attack at
the Ottawa woodworking show. A good friend of mine has cancer of the
kidney, though he has a fighting chance.

We need to appreciate people more, because as time passes, there are
fewer to appreciate, at least within our own age ranges.

Charlie Self

I'm losing friends and family at a seemingly faster rate than ever before,
that's a fact. However, for a wide range of reasons, I seem to have more,
and better friends than was ever the case in past years. The kids are
growing to be adults. Their friends are adults, too. The conversations
are more meaningful, their worries and joys seem less frivolous, their
successes and challenges more important.

If, or when, we are forced into seclusion, or lonliness, then those are the
dark days...

Ecclesiastes was right.

Patriarch

Man, this thread sure moved away from the child like
enjoyment of woodworking, regardless of chronological
age.

Of the woodworkers who died this year, Tage Frid
seemed to be the one with a twinkle in his eye and
that child like joy in woodworking.

charlie b