On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper

If a gas explosion in a single house scares you, Google this:

Merrimack Valley gas explosion

It's ridiculously amazing that only 1 person died.

"...the National Safety Transportation Board says it finally knows what caused the
destruction €“ inadequate management and poor oversight..."

IOW, human error.

On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels.Â* Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height.Â* Test there.Â* 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

I like the idea of TS height...couldn't hurt to provide for some adjustability

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:42:10 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper
Used to think that way, but more concerned about working with electricity.. At least plumbing/gas gives a hint that there's a problem, either visibly with water or smell with gas. Joints can be tested with soapy solution as well (or as my neighbor does, old school master plumber, with a match)...NOT my recommendation btw...
Not that it should be taken lightly, (as you have stated, the results can be devastating), so if you are concerned about doing, or being able to do, any work yourself safely or correctly, should def consider leaving it to the pros...
Climbing down from soapbox...

When I was in the Coast Guard I worked on transmitters that ran at 15KV-DC and
transmitted in the mega-watt range.

The station at Port Clarence, AK:

https://www.arctictoday.com/wp-conte..._PC-scaled.jpg

The view from my "office", the transmitter building at the base the 1/4 mile high tower:

https://i.imgur.com/4Ei7z4L.jpg

We used to walk up towards tower with 8' florescent tubes and watch them light up
in our hands. If you held the bottom with one hand and slid your other hand up the tube,
you could "push" the light to the upper portion.

When we were trying to find intermittent arcing within the transmitter, we'd take
the panels off the high voltage sections, turn off the lights in the building and
run the power supply up to 20 - 25KV. After the flash-bang, we'd swapped out
the bad parts.

In the picture from the bottom of the tower, you can see the above ground tunnel
that we used to get to the T building in bad weather. Poorly lit and unheated.
Lightening struck the tower and set one of the transmitters on fire. When the
alarms went off, I jumped on the bicycle that we used to ride through the tunnel
and headed to the T-Building. The lights in the tunnel had gone out and all I had to
navigate with was the single emergency light at the far end of the 1/4 mile tunnel. I
leaned the basket of the bicycle into the wall of the dark tunnel and peddled as hard
as I could towards the light. I entered the T building, grabbed a fire extinguisher and
put out the fire.

Officially, I was reprimanded for entering an unsafe area without authorization. Off
the record I was a hero for preventing further damage to the transmitters and the
building. About a month later our team received commendation ribbons for getting
the transmitters back on air sooner than anyone expected. It still makes me chuckle
that I was reprimanded for doing something that set the stage for me to be rewarded
as a direct result of those actions.

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

This made me chuckle:

"The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw".

Her table saw? I just bought her her first drill for Christmas. ;-)

As I said in my OP: "The person I have in mind is not a woodworker. She
knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not always use
the right bit. ;-)"

IOW, she's just getting started with tools, home repairs, etc. The workbench
is merely to give her a convenient, dedicated place to keep her tools, stir some
paint, maybe fix a broken shelf (eventually).

As far as the user's height, she's barely 5'1", so kitchen cabinet height might
be a little too tall.

I've decided to go with this style and I cut the front legs such that the workbench
top will be at 32". If that is too short, all it will take is the removable of a few screws
and 2 new front legs. The back will simply slide up the rear supports to match the
new front height. Even easier would be to remove the top, add some height to the
benchtop frame itself and screw the top back down.

https://i.imgur.com/rL5d5SV.jpg

The parts are cut and hopefully it will be assembled tonight. She lives about 2.5
hours away. I'm bringing a spare 2 x 4 so I can make taller front legs immediately
if need be.

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 11:07:18 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.
This made me chuckle:
"The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw".
Her table saw? I just bought her her first drill for Christmas. ;-)

As I said in my OP: "The person I have in mind is not a woodworker. She
knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not always use
the right bit. ;-)"

IOW, she's just getting started with tools, home repairs, etc. The workbench
is merely to give her a convenient, dedicated place to keep her tools, stir some
paint, maybe fix a broken shelf (eventually).

As far as the user's height, she's barely 5'1", so kitchen cabinet height might
be a little too tall.

I've decided to go with this style and I cut the front legs such that the workbench
top will be at 32". If that is too short, all it will take is the removable of a few screws
and 2 new front legs. The back will simply slide up the rear supports to match the
new front height. Even easier would be to remove the top, add some height to the
benchtop frame itself and screw the top back down.

https://i.imgur.com/rL5d5SV.jpg

The parts are cut and hopefully it will be assembled tonight. She lives about 2.5
hours away. I'm bringing a spare 2 x 4 so I can make taller front legs immediately
if need be.

Whatever you end up doing will be greatly appreciated...
Good on you...

On 1/29/2021 10:13 AM, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

I like the idea of TS height...couldn't hurt to provide for some adjustability

True, but my guess is adjustment will be made once, then, like book
shelves, will not change over the next 100 years. I have never once
considered any of my work tops as being too high, too low, or anything
else.

I will say that my lathe cabinet may be a tad too low. I worried about
it when I built it 50 years ago, but it seemed fine until very recently
when my old, tired back decided the very slight amount of bend needed to
turn stuff was going to make me wish for a tad more height. I did a lot
of turning when I was young, and never noticed a problem, even after
many hours of standing.

Now that I'm old and decrepit, I'm doing a good bit of turning again,
just for fun. Now it's always a fight if my back or my legs will turn on
me first.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 1/29/2021 11:46 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:13 AM, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned, but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw. Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

I like the idea of TS height...couldn't hurt to provide for some
adjustability

True, but my guess is adjustment will be made once, then, like book
shelves, will not change over the next 100 years. I have never once
considered any of my work tops as being too high, too low, or anything
else.

I will say that my lathe cabinet may be a tad too low. I worried about
it when I built it 50 years ago, but it seemed fine until very recently
when my old, tired back decided the very slight amount of bend needed to
turn stuff was going to make me wish for a tad more height. I did a lot
of turning when I was young, and never noticed a problem, even after
many hours of standing.

Now that I'm old and decrepit, I'm doing a good bit of turning again,
just for fun. Now it's always a fight if my back or my legs will turn on
me first.

But being old and decrepit, it should also be true that your spinal
discs have shrunk so you have lost three inches of height, and you're
just more stooped over in general, which should make your cabinet
height just right. );

My gosh, you're pretty abusive to people offering you good advice, and asking relevant questions. It seems like you're the one who wants her to have a workbench, and then require her to use it, so long as it fits your needs.

Come on man, take what information others are providing to you, digest them without regurgitating them back to the responder first, and then ask more questions if needed. But don't be abusive or sound arrogant in your replies. You're the one who asked for help.....

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodwo...a-3090490-.htm

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 07:39:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:42:10 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper
Used to think that way, but more concerned about working with electricity. At least plumbing/gas gives a hint that there's a problem, either visibly with water or smell with gas. Joints can be tested with soapy solution as well (or as my neighbor does, old school master plumber, with a match)...NOT my recommendation btw...
Not that it should be taken lightly, (as you have stated, the results can be devastating), so if you are concerned about doing, or being able to do, any work yourself safely or correctly, should def consider leaving it to the pros...
Climbing down from soapbox...

When I was in the Coast Guard I worked on transmitters that ran at 15KV-DC and
transmitted in the mega-watt range.

The station at Port Clarence, AK:

https://www.arctictoday.com/wp-conte..._PC-scaled.jpg

The view from my "office", the transmitter building at the base the 1/4 mile high tower:

https://i.imgur.com/4Ei7z4L.jpg

We used to walk up towards tower with 8' florescent tubes and watch them light up
in our hands. If you held the bottom with one hand and slid your other hand up the tube,
you could "push" the light to the upper portion.

When we were trying to find intermittent arcing within the transmitter, we'd take
the panels off the high voltage sections, turn off the lights in the building and
run the power supply up to 20 - 25KV. After the flash-bang, we'd swapped out
the bad parts.

In the picture from the bottom of the tower, you can see the above ground tunnel
that we used to get to the T building in bad weather. Poorly lit and unheated.
Lightening struck the tower and set one of the transmitters on fire. When the
alarms went off, I jumped on the bicycle that we used to ride through the tunnel
and headed to the T-Building. The lights in the tunnel had gone out and all I had to
navigate with was the single emergency light at the far end of the 1/4 mile tunnel. I
leaned the basket of the bicycle into the wall of the dark tunnel and peddled as hard
as I could towards the light. I entered the T building, grabbed a fire extinguisher and
put out the fire.

Officially, I was reprimanded for entering an unsafe area without authorization. Off
the record I was a hero for preventing further damage to the transmitters and the
building. About a month later our team received commendation ribbons for getting
the transmitters back on air sooner than anyone expected. It still makes me chuckle
that I was reprimanded for doing something that set the stage for me to be rewarded
as a direct result of those actions.

Institutions with long history (often military or military related)
tend to have the "Don't get hurt" rules that can impact safety and
function - thus you get rewarded for getting reprimanded.

The TV transmitter I worked at was 50kW, running 10 amps at 5,000
volts to some big tubes - the filaments of each of the five tubes in
the video transmitter required 5 volts at 185 amps. There were some
strict rules about ALWAYS two people to do maintenance and ALWAYS
using the grounding stick - wood, about 3ft long, with a metal cap
connected to a 4ft cable of probably 4 gauge welding cable (for
flexibility). Yes, there was a tool (similar to a screw jack) for
unplugging the tubes when they needed to be changed.

No real difference when working with gas - know the safety rules and
ALWAYS follow them. Plus gas has an odor, which electricity does not
- until it reaches corona discharge voltages and it starts making
ozone.

I did followup maintenance a year after the licensed plumber installed
the gas logs in the fireplace because there was a faint odor of gas. I
found he had used a nipple he had at hand instead of the proper one -
about a half inch longer in standard sizes - and the connection could
not be properly tightened. New fitting, some thread sealant and 10
minutes had that as it should have been originally. Some 5-6 years
later, it's still fine. I trust my electrical and gas work because I
do things as though I would be sleeping in that house the night after
doing the work.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:59:24 -0500, ads wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 07:39:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:42:10 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper
Used to think that way, but more concerned about working with electricity. At least plumbing/gas gives a hint that there's a problem, either visibly with water or smell with gas. Joints can be tested with soapy solution as well (or as my neighbor does, old school master plumber, with a match)...NOT my recommendation btw...
Not that it should be taken lightly, (as you have stated, the results can be devastating), so if you are concerned about doing, or being able to do, any work yourself safely or correctly, should def consider leaving it to the pros...
Climbing down from soapbox...

When I was in the Coast Guard I worked on transmitters that ran at 15KV-DC and
transmitted in the mega-watt range.

The station at Port Clarence, AK:

https://www.arctictoday.com/wp-conte..._PC-scaled.jpg

The view from my "office", the transmitter building at the base the 1/4 mile high tower:

https://i.imgur.com/4Ei7z4L.jpg

We used to walk up towards tower with 8' florescent tubes and watch them light up
in our hands. If you held the bottom with one hand and slid your other hand up the tube,
you could "push" the light to the upper portion.

When we were trying to find intermittent arcing within the transmitter, we'd take
the panels off the high voltage sections, turn off the lights in the building and
run the power supply up to 20 - 25KV. After the flash-bang, we'd swapped out
the bad parts.

In the picture from the bottom of the tower, you can see the above ground tunnel
that we used to get to the T building in bad weather. Poorly lit and unheated.
Lightening struck the tower and set one of the transmitters on fire. When the
alarms went off, I jumped on the bicycle that we used to ride through the tunnel
and headed to the T-Building. The lights in the tunnel had gone out and all I had to
navigate with was the single emergency light at the far end of the 1/4 mile tunnel. I
leaned the basket of the bicycle into the wall of the dark tunnel and peddled as hard
as I could towards the light. I entered the T building, grabbed a fire extinguisher and
put out the fire.

Officially, I was reprimanded for entering an unsafe area without authorization. Off
the record I was a hero for preventing further damage to the transmitters and the
building. About a month later our team received commendation ribbons for getting
the transmitters back on air sooner than anyone expected. It still makes me chuckle
that I was reprimanded for doing something that set the stage for me to be rewarded
as a direct result of those actions.

Institutions with long history (often military or military related)
tend to have the "Don't get hurt" rules that can impact safety and
function - thus you get rewarded for getting reprimanded.

The TV transmitter I worked at was 50kW, running 10 amps at 5,000
volts to some big tubes - the filaments of each of the five tubes in
the video transmitter required 5 volts at 185 amps. There were some
strict rules about ALWAYS two people to do maintenance and ALWAYS
using the grounding stick - wood, about 3ft long, with a metal cap
connected to a 4ft cable of probably 4 gauge welding cable (for
flexibility). Yes, there was a tool (similar to a screw jack) for
unplugging the tubes when they needed to be changed.

No real difference when working with gas - know the safety rules and
ALWAYS follow them. Plus gas has an odor, which electricity does not
- until it reaches corona discharge voltages and it starts making
ozone.

I did followup maintenance a year after the licensed plumber installed
the gas logs in the fireplace because there was a faint odor of gas. I
found he had used a nipple he had at hand instead of the proper one -
about a half inch longer in standard sizes - and the connection could
not be properly tightened. New fitting, some thread sealant and 10
minutes had that as it should have been originally. Some 5-6 years
later, it's still fine. I trust my electrical and gas work because I
do things as though I would be sleeping in that house the night after
doing the work.

120V rarely blows up homes and throws people in the street.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 07:45:25 -0500, knuttle
wrote:

On 1/29/2021 5:30 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:


I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.

I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode with
an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust the
chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one house
blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

Yeah, the chances of a water pipe leaking is very low, too, but I've
had it happen once or twice.

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:36:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper

If a gas explosion in a single house scares you, Google this:

Merrimack Valley gas explosion

It's ridiculously amazing that only 1 person died.

"...the National Safety Transportation Board says it finally knows what caused the
destruction – inadequate management and poor oversight..."

IOW, human error.

i.e. "We have to cover our a$$ so we'll blame one of the victims."
Very common in airline "incidents" too.

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 8:59:32 PM UTC-5, ads wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 07:39:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:42:10 AM UTC-5, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper
Used to think that way, but more concerned about working with electricity. At least plumbing/gas gives a hint that there's a problem, either visibly with water or smell with gas. Joints can be tested with soapy solution as well (or as my neighbor does, old school master plumber, with a match)....NOT my recommendation btw...
Not that it should be taken lightly, (as you have stated, the results can be devastating), so if you are concerned about doing, or being able to do, any work yourself safely or correctly, should def consider leaving it to the pros...
Climbing down from soapbox...

When I was in the Coast Guard I worked on transmitters that ran at 15KV-DC and
transmitted in the mega-watt range.

The station at Port Clarence, AK:

https://www.arctictoday.com/wp-conte..._PC-scaled.jpg

The view from my "office", the transmitter building at the base the 1/4 mile high tower:

https://i.imgur.com/4Ei7z4L.jpg

We used to walk up towards tower with 8' florescent tubes and watch them light up
in our hands. If you held the bottom with one hand and slid your other hand up the tube,
you could "push" the light to the upper portion.

When we were trying to find intermittent arcing within the transmitter, we'd take
the panels off the high voltage sections, turn off the lights in the building and
run the power supply up to 20 - 25KV. After the flash-bang, we'd swapped out
the bad parts.

In the picture from the bottom of the tower, you can see the above ground tunnel
that we used to get to the T building in bad weather. Poorly lit and unheated.
Lightening struck the tower and set one of the transmitters on fire. When the
alarms went off, I jumped on the bicycle that we used to ride through the tunnel
and headed to the T-Building. The lights in the tunnel had gone out and all I had to
navigate with was the single emergency light at the far end of the 1/4 mile tunnel. I
leaned the basket of the bicycle into the wall of the dark tunnel and peddled as hard
as I could towards the light. I entered the T building, grabbed a fire extinguisher and
put out the fire.

Officially, I was reprimanded for entering an unsafe area without authorization. Off
the record I was a hero for preventing further damage to the transmitters and the
building. About a month later our team received commendation ribbons for getting
the transmitters back on air sooner than anyone expected. It still makes me chuckle
that I was reprimanded for doing something that set the stage for me to be rewarded
as a direct result of those actions.
Institutions with long history (often military or military related)
tend to have the "Don't get hurt" rules that can impact safety and
function - thus you get rewarded for getting reprimanded.

The TV transmitter I worked at was 50kW, running 10 amps at 5,000
volts to some big tubes - the filaments of each of the five tubes in
the video transmitter required 5 volts at 185 amps. There were some
strict rules about ALWAYS two people to do maintenance and ALWAYS
using the grounding stick - wood, about 3ft long, with a metal cap
connected to a 4ft cable of probably 4 gauge welding cable (for
flexibility). Yes, there was a tool (similar to a screw jack) for
unplugging the tubes when they needed to be changed.

Affectionately known as a Dead Man Stick.

They can be used to pull the dead man off of the energized circuit that just
killed him.

We used them to discharge the oil filled capacitors in our transmitters,
the ones that required a shorting strap across the terminals when
they were taken out of the equipment. If you didn't keep them shorted,
the energy from the on-air transmitter could charge them up enough to
hurt you pretty badly.

We also used the Dead Man sticks as a training aid when new people arrived
on the station. We bring a hi-pot and a big capacitor to the mess hall, charge
up the cap and then short it out. I've seen it blow the ground strap right out
of the wooden rod. After the new guys quit sh*tting their pants we'd say "That's
why you never go into the transmitter building without a transmitter tech."

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 10:23:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 06:36:33 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:30:34 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
J. Clarke wrote in
:

I'll take on most things but for some reason gas scares me.
I heard the explosion. From where I was sitting, it sounded like a door
being shut hard. Fire trucks from all over started making their way up the
hill to a place about 1 1/2 miles away. We didn't know what was going on,
but firetrucks rarely frequent our road and almost never more than 1 at a
time.

Their house was in pieces. Their cars were burnt. They had been thrown
out of the house by the explosion and were lucky to be alive. Their son,
who was normally home that time of night, was out working late. Chances
are good he would have been killed by the explosion. It's a miracle the
parents weren't.

Four and a half years ago, a gas leak destroyed a house, cars, and almost
destroyed a family. Is it any wonder that gas scares me as well?

Puckdropper

If a gas explosion in a single house scares you, Google this:

Merrimack Valley gas explosion

It's ridiculously amazing that only 1 person died.

"...the National Safety Transportation Board says it finally knows what caused the
destruction €“ inadequate management and poor oversight..."

IOW, human error.
i.e. "We have to cover our a$$ so we'll blame one of the victims."
Very common in airline "incidents" too.

In this case the gas company was found to be 100% at fault. No victims
were blamed.

"The NTSB determines that the probable cause €¦ was Columbia Gas of
Massachusetts weak engineering management that did not adequately
plan, review, sequence, and oversee the construction project that led to
the abandonment of a cast iron main without first relocating regulator
sensing lines to the new polyethylene main,€� NTSBs Managing Director
Sharon Bryson said Tuesday. €œContributing to the accident was a
low-pressure natural gas distribution system designed and operated
without adequate over-pressure protection.€�

On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.

knuttle wrote in
:

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode
with an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust
the chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one
house blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

It's been a long time since I've seen the saw dust explosion thing... IIRC,
it takes a dust to air ratio so thick that you can't breath.

Puckdropper

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at
the wrist level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for
specific types of work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new
homeowner, would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have
in mind is not a woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to
use, but she might not always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+
screws used. I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was
just right, at l east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.



Good job to you both!

Glad you took a picture of it clean. It will never be that way again.
:0)

Puckdropper

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 08:17:57 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

knuttle wrote in
:

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode
with an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust
the chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one
house blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

It's been a long time since I've seen the saw dust explosion thing... IIRC,
it takes a dust to air ratio so thick that you can't breath.

And it takes actual dust, not the chips produced by most cutting
tools.

A really big sander might do it but I would be very surprised if
anything found outside of a large factory would.

On 1/29/2021 4:57 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2021 11:46 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:13 AM, Brian Welch wrote:
On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:41:28 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 1/27/2021 11:43 AM, Leon wrote:

I don't think wrist height will even come into play unless she will be
using a hand plane and or chisels. Staining will be all different
heights so no height will be correct or incorrect.

Everything has a different ideal height, so the only perfect height is
an adjustable one. Finishing kitchen cabs is not the same as
finishing a
mantle clock. If you don't want "perfect" for each task, then the best
imo is table saw height.

So 30" is dinner table height. Test there. 36" is kitchen counter
height, and test there.

All my bench's are a tad under 37". When I built my main work bench in
1975, I built it the same height as my Table saw for use as an in-feed
table. Years later I moved into another house, and it had a "bench"
around the walls of half the shop. The height was slightly under
37",perfect for a "wing" extension support on my Tsaw. A few years
later
my kids bought me a steel 13 drawer mechanics work bench with a maple
top. It is just under 37", perfect for my Tsaw out feed table.

Other than my original workbench, this height was totally unplanned,
but
works fine for me.This to me means the people building my steel
mechanics bench, and the guy that built the wood "bench" around the
walls of my garage, and the guy that built my original tsaw bench were
ALL uncannily on the same page.

The correct answer to me then is the same height as her table saw.
Also,
the standard height of a kitchen counter is 36". That would also be the
correct height for a workbench unless the person has special
circumstances, as in project specific or other issues like wheel chair,
or super short/tall person, or of course owns a tsaw.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

I like the idea of TS height...couldn't hurt to provide for some
adjustability

True, but my guess is adjustment will be made once, then, like book
shelves, will not change over the next 100 years. I have never once
considered any of my work tops as being too high, too low, or anything
else.

I will say that my lathe cabinet may be a tad too low. I worried about
it when I built it 50 years ago, but it seemed fine until very
recently when my old, tired back decided the very slight amount of
bend needed to turn stuff was going to make me wish for a tad more
height. I did a lot of turning when I was young, and never noticed a
problem, even after many hours of standing.

Now that I'm old and decrepit, I'm doing a good bit of turning again,
just for fun. Now it's always a fight if my back or my legs will turn
on me first.

But being old and decrepit, it should also be true that your spinal
discs have shrunk so you have lost three inches of height, and you're
just more stooped over in general, which should make your cabinet
height just right.Â*Â*Â* );

Only lost 1/1/2" so far. If I stand for more than 3-4 hours, my left leg
catches fire. My son, who plays a doctor on TV, says it's likely a
pinched nerve in my back. That, in combination that it takes me 3 times
longer to do anything leads me to smaller and smaller projects. Last
thing I made was a bird feeder....

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 1/29/2021 10:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.





Is that cherry? What color are going to paint it. GOOD JOB!

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 9:18:05 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.



Is that cherry? What color are going to paint it. GOOD JOB!

The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are barely tight.

Then it's on to installing the garbage disposal, the pots and pans drawers in the
base cabinets and a couple of new switches. (It looks like I measured the cabinets
correctly the last time I was here so I'm pretty sure that the drawers should fit just
fine. I hope.)

There's no 3-way switch for the 2nd floor hallway light. Just a 2nd floor switch.
Lutron has a Caseta line of wireless switches that has some good reviews. I plan
to replace the 2nd floor switch with the Caseta receiver switch and mount the
remote switch at the bottom of the stairs. They use Decora style wall plates, so
they will match the rest of the switches in her house. I really don't want to pull
wires in 1935 plaster & lath house.

https://www.casetawireless.com/

On 1/30/2021 4:17 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 08:17:57 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

knuttle wrote in
:

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode
with an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust
the chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one
house blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

It's been a long time since I've seen the saw dust explosion thing... IIRC,
it takes a dust to air ratio so thick that you can't breath.

And it takes actual dust, not the chips produced by most cutting
tools.

A really big sander might do it but I would be very surprised if
anything found outside of a large factory would.

When I first started WW, I made a plywood disk and glued sandpaper to it
for my Tsaw, trying to make a disk sander. It filled my whole shop with
wood dust. I never used it again, bought a disk sander, dust collection
and so on. It was enough dust powder to make any OSHA hack wring his
hands into fat little government stumps.

My coal furnace converted to gas was in the middle of it all, but no
bang. My main concern was my shop was covered in dust, I had a hard time
breathing, and the Tsaw turned WAY to fast to be a sander.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 04:17:36 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 08:17:57 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

knuttle wrote in
:

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode
with an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust
the chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one
house blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

It's been a long time since I've seen the saw dust explosion thing... IIRC,
it takes a dust to air ratio so thick that you can't breath.

And it takes actual dust, not the chips produced by most cutting
tools.

But how many times have you seen instructions for dust collection
systems that stress the importance of grounding everything and having
drain wires through plastic portions? I guess they help because
they'll keep the dust (into the collector) to a mini um.

A really big sander might do it but I would be very surprised if
anything found outside of a large factory would.

It's all about concentration but your points are valid. The dust from
sanders may be too large, too. Fine sanding doesn't produce nearly as
much dust as a coarse grit and the dust from a coarse grit is large
and will fall out of the air anyway. The real problems are in places
like flour mills or corn processing.

Gas, on the other hand, is a really fine powder. ;-)

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:38:34 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg'

You done good.

Thanks for all the ideas.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 06:38:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 9:18:05 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.



Is that cherry? What color are going to paint it. GOOD JOB!

The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are barely tight.

Then it's on to installing the garbage disposal, the pots and pans drawers in the
base cabinets and a couple of new switches. (It looks like I measured the cabinets
correctly the last time I was here so I'm pretty sure that the drawers should fit just
fine. I hope.)

There's no 3-way switch for the 2nd floor hallway light. Just a 2nd floor switch.
Lutron has a Caseta line of wireless switches that has some good reviews. I plan
to replace the 2nd floor switch with the Caseta receiver switch and mount the
remote switch at the bottom of the stairs. They use Decora style wall plates, so
they will match the rest of the switches in her house. I really don't want to pull
wires in 1935 plaster & lath house.

Ah, where's the fun in that?

https://www.casetawireless.com/

The only thing that stops me from home automation is that they seem to
come out with a new "standard" every year. I once used X-10 but gave
that up long ago. Now it seems like a different app for every device.

On 1/30/2021 8:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 9:18:05 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.



Is that cherry? What color are going to paint it. GOOD JOB!

The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

Impact drive should be next on the gift list. ;~)




She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are barely tight.

Then it's on to installing the garbage disposal, the pots and pans drawers in the
base cabinets and a couple of new switches. (It looks like I measured the cabinets
correctly the last time I was here so I'm pretty sure that the drawers should fit just
fine. I hope.)

Fingers Crossed!


There's no 3-way switch for the 2nd floor hallway light. Just a 2nd floor switch.
Lutron has a Caseta line of wireless switches that has some good reviews. I plan
to replace the 2nd floor switch with the Caseta receiver switch and mount the
remote switch at the bottom of the stairs. They use Decora style wall plates, so
they will match the rest of the switches in her house. I really don't want to pull
wires in 1935 plaster & lath house.

https://www.casetawireless.com/

That looks pretty cool, kind's like a wireless door bell switch.

On 1/30/2021 2:17 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
knuttle wrote in
:

Any thing can be handled WITH THE PROPER SAFETY PRACTICES. It is when
you neglect those practices that accidents happen.

In the winter when doing a lot of work on my table saw, I turn off all
spark producing devices, as dust like volatile liquids can explode
with an ignition source and the right concentration. With saw dust
the chances of explosion are extremely low. But the chances of one
house blowing up from a gas leak are extremely low.

It's been a long time since I've seen the saw dust explosion thing... IIRC,
it takes a dust to air ratio so thick that you can't breath.

Puckdropper



I don't recall if the warning to ground the DC is to prevent an
explosion from a spark or not.

More likely to prevent one from being shocked from static electricity on
the hose. And that static electricity tends to let dust build up inside
the hose.

On 1/30/2021 9:42 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 06:38:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 9:18:05 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2021 10:38 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)

The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.



Is that cherry? What color are going to paint it. GOOD JOB!

The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are barely tight.

Then it's on to installing the garbage disposal, the pots and pans drawers in the
base cabinets and a couple of new switches. (It looks like I measured the cabinets
correctly the last time I was here so I'm pretty sure that the drawers should fit just
fine. I hope.)

There's no 3-way switch for the 2nd floor hallway light. Just a 2nd floor switch.
Lutron has a Caseta line of wireless switches that has some good reviews. I plan
to replace the 2nd floor switch with the Caseta receiver switch and mount the
remote switch at the bottom of the stairs. They use Decora style wall plates, so
they will match the rest of the switches in her house. I really don't want to pull
wires in 1935 plaster & lath house.

Ah, where's the fun in that?

https://www.casetawireless.com/

The only thing that stops me from home automation is that they seem to
come out with a new "standard" every year. I once used X-10 but gave
that up long ago. Now it seems like a different app for every device.



Home automation and wireless stuff is col,,,,, until it stops working.
Then you struggle with how to get it all running again.

On 1/29/2021 5:30 PM, bob wrote:
My gosh, you're pretty abusive to people offering you good advice, and
asking relevant questions. It seems like you're the one who wants her to
have a workbench, and then require her to use it, so long as it fits
your needs.

Come on man, take what information others are providing to you, digest
them without regurgitating them back to the responder first, and then
ask more questions if needed.Â* But don't be abusive or sound arrogant in
your replies.Â* You're the one who asked for help.....

This is his MO. Nothing new. He not only asked for help, but gave zero
pertinent info like what it would be used for, height of user and so on.
Then as people answer him, he ekes out more info whilst belittling those
trying to help him.

The best is he's supposedly been a woodworker for 35 years, you'd think
he would be answering the questions rather than asking. Then, he
"builds" a cheesy "workbench" with his credit card... Yuck!

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 1/30/2021 11:41 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/30/2021 9:42 AM, wrote:

The only thing that stops me from home automation is that they seem to
come out with a new "standard" every year.Â* I once used X-10 but gave
that up long ago.Â* Now it seems like a different app for every device.

Home automation and wireless stuff is col,,,,, until it stops working.
Then you struggle with how to get it all running again.

I have 8 smart plugs on various lamps around the house. All plugs work
on a Kasa app and with Alexia. If they stop working, say you unplug them
or the WiFi goes down, startup is automatic. I like them a lot because I
just tell Alexa what I want, and it happens (usually).

I really like that all the lamps are on timers, so go on and off
automatically, and if away on vacation, the lights go off and on, and
can be controlled from the other side of the world from my cell phone if
I want.

The down side, and after several years this has not happened, is if the
plug or WiFi stops working you will have to unplug each lamp from the
smart plug and plug it directly into the outlet like it was before smart
plug days in order to turn on the lamp. Some of my plugs are not easy to
get to, and would be fun crawling around on the floor with a flashlight
to fix.

Another minor issue is if someone turns off a light manually, later
you'll wonder why the smart plug won't do anything.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 1/30/2021 9:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are barely tight.
Amazing! After the second screw I'd have instructed her on how to use
the clutch etc etc. Watching 80-100 screws and just letting her continue
on sounds like child abuse to me...

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 1/30/2021 11:29 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/30/2021 9:38 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
The hardest part was not getting frustrated at how gentle she
was when driving the screws. She would drive them real slow
and then stop when they bottomed out. She really wasn't driving
them home. I just bought her the drill for Christmas so she hasn't
had a lot of practice.

She's going shopping with SWMBO soon so I'm going to crank them all down
after she leaves. Between the brackets and the screwed down shelf and
bench
top it's very solid, but I know that some of the bracket screws are
barely tight.
Amazing!Â* After the second screw I'd have instructed her on how to use
the clutch etc etc. Watching 80-100 screws and just letting her continue
on sounds like child abuse to me...




I think the child is 30 something. ;~)

On 1/30/2021 11:23 AM, Jack wrote:
On 1/30/2021 11:41 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/30/2021 9:42 AM, wrote:

The only thing that stops me from home automation is that they seem to
come out with a new "standard" every year.Â* I once used X-10 but gave
that up long ago.Â* Now it seems like a different app for every device.

Home automation and wireless stuff is col,,,,, until it stops working.
Then you struggle with how to get it all running again.

I have 8 smart plugs on various lamps around the house. All plugs work
on a Kasa app and with Alexia. If they stop working, say you unplug them
or the WiFi goes down, startup is automatic. I like them a lot because I
just tell Alexa what I want, and it happens (usually).

I really like that all the lamps are on timers, so go on and off
automatically, and if away on vacation, the lights go off and on, and
can be controlled from the other side of the world from my cell phone if
I want.

The down side, and after several years this has not happened, is if the
plug or WiFi stops working you will have to unplug each lamp from the
smart plug and plug it directly into the outlet like it was before smart
plug days in order to turn on the lamp. Some of my plugs are not easy to
get to, and would be fun crawling around on the floor with a flashlight
to fix.

Another minor issue is if someone turns off a light manually, later
you'll wonder why the smart plug won't do anything.


And there is the issue of Alexa not working for what ever reason.... I
was one of the original owners of the Echo. It does not always work
properly and we have 4 altogether.

I also have a weather app that is WiFi
And it is tied into my sprinkler system, also WiFi. Door Bell/WiFi.
Front door lock/WiFi, garage door opener/ WiFi. My wife's sewing
machine, WiFi. 2 radio's/ WiFi
TV DVR/WiFi. Phones/Wifi.

And when WiFI goes down...... ;~)

On 1/30/2021 10:38 AM, Leon wrote:
....

I don't recall if the warning to ground the DC is to prevent an
explosion from a spark or not.

More likely to prevent one from being shocked from static electricity on
the hose.Â* And that static electricity tends to let dust build up inside
the hose.

Well, there's a lot that claim it is but there's simply insufficient
energy there for it to be a viable ignition source for woodworking dust.

--

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:57:04 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 1/30/2021 10:38 AM, Leon wrote:
...

I don't recall if the warning to ground the DC is to prevent an
explosion from a spark or not.

More likely to prevent one from being shocked from static electricity on
the hose.Â* And that static electricity tends to let dust build up inside
the hose.

Well, there's a lot that claim it is but there's simply insufficient
energy there for it to be a viable ignition source for woodworking dust.

I'd be more concerned about drawing a spark off the hose and being
startled into dropping something heavy on my foot.

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 10:38:37 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 4:19:13 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)
The workbench is done. My daughter drove at least 80 of the 100+ screws used.
I took over when her hand started cramping up. ;-)

It turns out that my guess at a good height for her 5'-1" frame was just right, at l
east for now. The work surface is at 32".

She is pretty proud of her handy work.

https://i.imgur.com/5WJjvFh.jpg

Thanks for all the ideas.

So you built her a table. OK. Which is exactly what I told you she needed to work on in her basement. No vise, so its hard to call it a workbench. Its a table she can work at. So its a worktable, not a workbench. 32" high. My dining table is 30" high. My 6' folding table is 29" high. Your worktable is pretty close to the same height as my tables. Good job.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:51:09 -0500, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:57:04 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 1/30/2021 10:38 AM, Leon wrote:
...

I don't recall if the warning to ground the DC is to prevent an
explosion from a spark or not.

More likely to prevent one from being shocked from static electricity on
the hose.* And that static electricity tends to let dust build up inside
the hose.

Well, there's a lot that claim it is but there's simply insufficient
energy there for it to be a viable ignition source for woodworking dust.

I'd be more concerned about drawing a spark off the hose and being
startled into dropping something heavy on my foot.

I'm more concerned that the wire will collect chips and really **** me
off when the duct gets plugged up.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:23:26 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 1/30/2021 11:41 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/30/2021 9:42 AM, wrote:

The only thing that stops me from home automation is that they seem to
come out with a new "standard" every year.* I once used X-10 but gave
that up long ago.* Now it seems like a different app for every device.

Home automation and wireless stuff is col,,,,, until it stops working.
Then you struggle with how to get it all running again.

I have 8 smart plugs on various lamps around the house. All plugs work
on a Kasa app and with Alexia. If they stop working, say you unplug them
or the WiFi goes down, startup is automatic. I like them a lot because I
just tell Alexa what I want, and it happens (usually).

I won't have an Alexa in the house. Actually, I did. My son gave us
one. It never left the box.

I really like that all the lamps are on timers, so go on and off
automatically, and if away on vacation, the lights go off and on, and
can be controlled from the other side of the world from my cell phone if
I want.

The down side, and after several years this has not happened, is if the
plug or WiFi stops working you will have to unplug each lamp from the
smart plug and plug it directly into the outlet like it was before smart
plug days in order to turn on the lamp. Some of my plugs are not easy to
get to, and would be fun crawling around on the floor with a flashlight
to fix.

Another minor issue is if someone turns off a light manually, later
you'll wonder why the smart plug won't do anything.

On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 13:19:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I've been doing some reading about the proper workbench height. A lot
of sources say that for "general work" the proper height is right at the wrist
level of the user. Adjustments are made from there for specific types of
work.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vx94zSkRWBU/maxresdefault.jpg

If you were going to build a general purpose workbench for a new homeowner,
would you follow the wrist height rule? The person I have in mind is not a
woodworker. She knows which end of a screwdriver to use, but she might not
always use the right bit. ;-)


I thought I'd keep my eye on this one, at a local auction -
but it's already close to what my max. would be ..

https://tinyurl.com/yytjwvd7

John T.