I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

On 2/17/2020 6:37 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?



Whaaat?

Frame of a cabinet? Is that the face frame you are talking about? Or
are you you talking about the carcass?

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.

Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet in a bathroom.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 17:20:40 -0800 (PST), Robbie Brusso
wrote:

Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet in a bathroom.

Use a dado. If the bottom lets go and drops Madame's whatever was on
the botttom shelf in the toilet you'll never hear the end of it. If
it bonks Madame on the head in the process you might wish you had
constructed a heated doghouse instead.

Thanks J. So should I use box joints for joining the top and sides and a dado for the bottom? There's no real rhyme or reason for my design, I just wanted to try a new join.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 17:25:46 -0800 (PST), Robbie Brusso
wrote:

Thanks J. So should I use box joints for joining the top and sides and a dado for the bottom? There's no real rhyme or reason for my design, I just wanted to try a new join.

That's reasonable.

Awesome - thanks for your help!

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 7:25:49 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Thanks J. So should I use box joints for joining the top and sides and a dado for the bottom? There's no real rhyme or reason for my design, I just wanted to try a new join.

Bathroom cabinets made with box joints for aesthetic reasons are fairly standard, are they not?

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've
usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However
I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if
glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it
helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet
in a bathroom.

Box joints are more than strong enough for this purpose. You're wringing
your hands for nothing. If you're thinking the glue will fail, (it
won't) you could pin them with a dowel which will even enhance the
esthetics of the joint. My first workbench with drawers I built the
drawers this way (45 years ago), before I realized how strong glue was.
Box joints have lots of good gluing surface, making the joint very
strong. MUCH stronger than pocket hole joints.

--
Jack
In Youth we Learn; In Age we Understand

On 2/18/2020 7:28 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor
(bottom of the cabinet). I've
usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However
I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if
glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it
helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet
in a bathroom.

Box joints are more than strong enough for this purpose. You're wringing
your hands for nothing.Â* If you're thinking the glue will fail, (it
won't) you could pin them with a dowel which will even enhance the
esthetics of the joint.Â* My first workbench with drawers I built the
drawers this way (45 years ago), before I realized how strong glue was.
Â*Box joints have lots of good gluing surface, making the joint very
strong. MUCH stronger than pocket hole joints.

I think if you do some research in many cases glue joints are stronger
that the wood that they are holding together.

On 2/17/2020 7:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet in a bathroom.


As long as you are "not" only using glue with a butt joint you should
have a relatively strong joint.

Normally the bottom fits into a dado on each side. And a face frame, if
you will be using that too, will add strength.

If you want a clean look, box joints, and or DT joints will be plenty
strong.

Alternatively, biscuits, Domino's to reinforce butt joints will work
well too.

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet (top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).

Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:

http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:53:56 -0500, John McGaw
wrote:

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet
(top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing
ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make
me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the
load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).
Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:
http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html


Yours made me think of a way OP could still use his box joints -
attach a second bottom or moulding to make it look like it's
trimmed on 3 edges but actually screwed up into the sides
for a little extra strength ? .. might make the box joints look odd
though ... out-of-place ..
John T.

The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

On 2/18/2020 1:54 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 12:53:56 -0500, John McGaw
wrote:

On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:46:21 -0800 (PST), Michael
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 6:37:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
I had planned on using box joints to build the frame of a hanging cabinet
(top, bottom, sides). However, I'm starting to wonder about the weight bearing
ability of the bottom frame member. The tapers of a dovetail would make
me feel a little better but with a box joint I wonder about the
load bearing ability of the bottom member. Thoughts?

Well made box joints will easily hold up the weight and then some.

If it's the bottom, you're loading a glue line in shear. If you are
using a glue that absolutely positively does not creep (which lets out
just about any PVA glue) you might be OK. But that's what dado joints
are made for.


The cabinet will be suspended by what? The top, as in a French cleat or
will there be some sort of support from the sides? Will the weight of the
contents be supported by the sides or will everything be sitting in the
bottom? All of that matters a lot. Personally, I don't screw around and use
dovetails all-round as my preferred method of support is via French cleat
which applies much of its force to the top (and a little to the back and
sides but that eventually gets applied to the top too).
Not the most inspiring piece ever but this is my first try at a wall-hung
display case. It uses half-blind dovetails to join top/bottom to sides:
http://johnmcgaw.com/ww/furniture24.html


Yours made me think of a way OP could still use his box joints -
attach a second bottom or moulding to make it look like it's
trimmed on 3 edges but actually screwed up into the sides
for a little extra strength ? .. might make the box joints look odd
though ... out-of-place ..
John T.


I'm sure that we could figure out a score of different joining methods and,
with the right materials and workmanship, any of them would probably do the
job as long as the cabinet wasn't going to be used to hold vast weights.
And molding and trim can cover a multitude of sins so that even unsightly
joints could be forgiven. Guess it all depends on what the OP has to work
with more than anything else.

When I made mine I was working with material salvaged from a kitchen
demolition so almost anything goes. I used blind dovetails because I have
the jig and the resulting joint is pretty much indestructible as well as
invisible.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
...Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? ...

Only 'til the glue dries.

--

On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs
a screw or two to hold it into position. The cabinet could be pulled
out from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened. That said the
French cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet. This
is not furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

Maybe drill a 1/8 hole and drive in a 1/8 dowel.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 11:08:34 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/17/2020 7:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet in a bathroom.


As long as you are "not" only using glue with a butt joint you should
have a relatively strong joint.

Normally the bottom fits into a dado on each side. And a face frame, if
you will be using that too, will add strength.


Don't you mean 2 face frames? ;-)

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:06:09 PM UTC-6, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?

Here's Norm making a medicine cabinet using box joints. You'll need the required belt sander and brad nailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2FEthi8X64

On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.Â* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint. I've done it with pegs in both box and dovetail joints in drawers
when I was concerned about wear over years of use. There are so many ways
to join wood in an application like this and so many variations that could
be applied to each that one could spend a lifetime trying them all out (if
you work as slowly as I do, anyway). Here is an old-school way of doing
pegged box joints although using rectangular ebony pegs is kind of out
there if you are looking for simple:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/read...1/18/tool-tote

Done properly is is very pretty, you must admit.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 08:21:58 -0500, knuttle
wrote:

On 2/18/2020 7:28 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/17/2020 8:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor
(bottom of the cabinet). I've
usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However
I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if
glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it
helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet
in a bathroom.

Box joints are more than strong enough for this purpose. You're wringing
your hands for nothing.Â* If you're thinking the glue will fail, (it
won't) you could pin them with a dowel which will even enhance the
esthetics of the joint.Â* My first workbench with drawers I built the
drawers this way (45 years ago), before I realized how strong glue was.
Â*Box joints have lots of good gluing surface, making the joint very
strong. MUCH stronger than pocket hole joints.

I think if you do some research in many cases glue joints are stronger
that the wood that they are holding together.

They are and aren't. If you glue a couple of pieces of wood together
and then bust the joint, it will fail in the wood. However if you
take the same two pieces, hang them by a hole in one and hang a weight
on the other, so the glue is loaded in shear, you may find that after
a while they have come apart. It's called "creep"--slow movement of a
joint loaded in shear under continuous stress.

John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.Â* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

I don't see the necessity of security blankets but if it makes the OP feel
better about it, what is the harm? I back my computers up to three
different destinations and keep copies of my data in a bank vault.
Necessary? Maybe not but it lets me sleep better at night.

--
Bodger's Dictum: Artifical intelligence
can never overcome natural stupidity.

John McGaw writes:
On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

Even if it creeps- how long would it take for 12 inches of 3/4" box joints
on a 3/4" stock to creep enough that you can even see a gap? Considering
the number of faces glued to each other, I suspect that would take centuries.

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 4:53:57 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

Even if it creeps- how long would it take for 12 inches of 3/4" box joints
on a 3/4" stock to creep enough that you can even see a gap? Considering
the number of faces glued to each other, I suspect that would take centuries.

Scott,

This cabinet is going above a toilet. Those glue joints may need to support
multiple rolls of toilet paper. If the OP uses 2-ply paper, there will be
substantial sheer force on those joints. The creep might be an issue in a
relatively short amount of time, maybe a couple of eons at most. ;-)

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 9:50:15 AM UTC-8, John McGaw wrote:
On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

It's hard to be sure that a cross-grain joint (box joint) won't be stressed, internally,
by wood movement in addition to a constant load stress. That makes it a little
less certain than a dovetail (where some wood could do brittle breakage), and
a lot less certain than a dado (where a 12" shelf has a half inch under its dado socket)
that must make a 12" long check that splits 6 square inches of wood faces.

For what it's worth, old box joints do NOT stand up; hide glue gets eaten by fungus,
in about 150 years...

On 2/18/2020 4:41 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 11:08:34 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/17/2020 7:20 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
Haha sorry for the confusion - I guess my concern is the cabinet floor (bottom of the cabinet). I've usually just used pocket holes and joined to the sides that way. However I wanted to use box joints this time. But then I started to wonder if glue alone would secure the bottom of the cabinet to the sides. If it helps at all, this is a wall mounted cabinet that will go above a toilet in a bathroom.


As long as you are "not" only using glue with a butt joint you should
have a relatively strong joint.

Normally the bottom fits into a dado on each side. And a face frame, if
you will be using that too, will add strength.


Don't you mean 2 face frames? ;-)



I doubt he is building how I do. :~)

On 2/18/2020 6:21 PM, John McGaw wrote:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead
of my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered
sacrilege to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still
needs a screw or two to hold it into position.Â* The cabinet could be
pulled out from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.Â* That
said the French cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a
cabinet.Â* This is not furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint. I've done it with pegs in both box and dovetail joints in drawers
when I was concerned about wear over years of use. There are so many
ways to join wood in an application like this and so many variations
that could be applied to each that one could spend a lifetime trying
them all out (if you work as slowly as I do, anyway). Here is an
old-school way of doing pegged box joints although using rectangular
ebony pegs is kind of out there if you are looking for simple:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/read...1/18/tool-tote

Done properly is is very pretty, you must admit.

I think pegging of the joint is best described in your last sentence. I
think for any other reason may be overkill. There is a LOT of glue
surface in a box joint, triple, IIRC.

On 2/19/2020 11:50 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use
instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered
sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still
needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled
out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the
French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This
is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it.Â*Â* I don't see the necessity of additional
reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is
guaranteed to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not
needed.

I don't use glue that is guaranteed not to creep. In 40 years of
serious woodworking I have never had an issue with creep. I only see it
when gluing 2 pieces of wood that expand in different directions. The
joint is still rock solid but now, 10 year, later I can feel the joint.

Glue creep is IMHO something that happens but is not an issue for an
application like the OP is concerned about. Kinda falls under the
assumption that clamping too tightly will starve a joint of glue. Again
nothing I have ever witnessed. The strongest glue line is a thin glue line.



I don't see the necessity of security blankets but if it makes the OP
feel better about it, what is the harm? I back my computers up to three
different destinations and keep copies of my data in a bank vault.
Necessary? Maybe not but it lets me sleep better at night.


Agreed but one could have 5 different destinations and be even safer.
You learn what is necessary and what is not with experience.

On 2/19/2020 5:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 4:53:57 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/19/2020 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
John McGaw writes:
On 2/18/2020 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:06 PM, Robbie Brusso wrote:
The french cleat idea is a great one (and one I'll likely use instead of
my idea of a nailer inside the cabinet). Would it be considered sacrilege
to put a brad into the box joints? Would it risk splitting?




Keep in mind that a French cleat, to be the safest install, still needs a
screw or two to hold it into position.ÂÂ* The cabinet could be pulled out
from the wall and fall if not permanently fastened.ÂÂ* That said the French
cleat is still a good way for one person to hang a cabinet.ÂÂ* This is not
furniture so screws, brads, etc are acceptable.

I don't see why you couldn't use a brad or a nail or a screw in the box
joint.

A tightly fitting, correctly glued box joint should be stronger than
the wood around it. I don't see the necessity of additional reinforcement.

Assuming that the joint is fitted well and the glue involved is guaranteed
to never creep under constant load then reinforcement is not needed.

Even if it creeps- how long would it take for 12 inches of 3/4" box joints
on a 3/4" stock to creep enough that you can even see a gap? Considering
the number of faces glued to each other, I suspect that would take centuries.

Scott,

This cabinet is going above a toilet. Those glue joints may need to support
multiple rolls of toilet paper. If the OP uses 2-ply paper, there will be
substantial sheer force on those joints. The creep might be an issue in a
relatively short amount of time, maybe a couple of eons at most. ;-)


I would be more concerned with the 2 ply paper sheer resistance to a
middle finger poking through. ;~)