On 2/24/2018 10:47 AM, Jac
On 2/24/2018 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:


When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

I'm sorry but I cannot think of a simpler way to explain it. FWIW, I
said a 20x17 foot print, not 20x8.5.


Would a picture help?

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:47:37 AM UTC-5, Jack Stein wrote:
On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/



See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before. Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?


Stand an 8' 2x4 on end. How much floor space does it take up?

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/



See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before. Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

On 2/24/2018 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/24/2018 10:47 AM, Jac
On 2/24/2018 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:


When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

* From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side.* Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall.* If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

I'm sorry but I cannot think of a simpler way to explain it.* FWIW, I
said a 20x17 foot print, not 20x8.5.


Would a picture help?

I needed to add this to this drawing anyway. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

On 2/24/2018 12:54 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/24/2018 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/24/2018 10:47 AM, Jac
On 2/24/2018 10:53 AM, Leon wrote:


When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of
20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall,
with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

I'm sorry but I cannot think of a simpler way to explain it. FWIW, I
said a 20x17 foot print, not 20x8.5.


Would a picture help?

I needed to add this to this drawing anyway. ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Now I get it, thanks. So the wall space is 96" x 20" x 17. I think it
was the "bottom of one against the top of the other" and ignoring the
96" dimension that threw me off.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/



See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before. Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down between
uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put drawered
cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS outfeed.
I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See?* The fishing works.* ;-)

I like it.* A lot!* How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface.* I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work table
"the
centipede" I think it was called?** Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.* Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".* You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

* From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side.* Each is
96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall.* If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it.* Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that.* I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons.* I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list.* But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down between
uses, is it has no storage.* I would put it on wheels, put drawered
cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS outfeed.
I* try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:19:39 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/



See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before. Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17". You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

No problem with the name. I don't use it often on the Usenet, so I
wouldn't expect anyone to remember. They usually just use the
initials.

I didn't say it wouldn't work. It's whole purpose is to save space,
which is of no consequence for me. I'd rather have the outfeed table
as a permanent feature.

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down between
uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put drawered
cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS outfeed.
I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.

Exactly. Drawers take a lot of time to make, which is something I'm
dearly short of. Of course, right now I have time but can't
physically do the work (for the same reason I have time ;-).

On 2/25/2018 9:48 AM, Jack wrote:



Would a picture help?

I needed to add this to this drawing anyway.* ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Now I get it, thanks.* So the wall space is 96" x 20" x 17.

A picture is worth a thousand words!


I think it
was the "bottom of one against the top of the other" and ignoring the
96" dimension that threw me off.


Too many numbers. :~)

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 19:43:20 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 9:48 AM, Jack wrote:



Would a picture help?

I needed to add this to this drawing anyway.* ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/

Now I get it, thanks.* So the wall space is 96" x 20" x 17.

A picture is worth a thousand words!


I think it
was the "bottom of one against the top of the other" and ignoring the
96" dimension that threw me off.


Too many numbers. :~)

See, if you'd hung it on the ceiling like I suggested, you would have
used zero floor space. ...and confused the crap out of Jack. ;-)

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly. He has
2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough. For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface. This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason. There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/27/2018 8:33 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/





See?* The fishing works.* ;-)

I like it.* A lot!* How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface.* I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called?** Everyone got all over the
Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

* From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side.* Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall.* If I stand both on end, 96" tall,
with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it.* Kevin
has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that.* I think Kevin should build
one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same
height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons.* I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list.* But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage.* I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I* try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table.* :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly.* He has
2000' of work space.* Wheels makes it portable enough.* For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface.* This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites.* Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

I only needed a "flat" assembly work surface. I already have adequate
out feed for my TS, 15 roller HTC fold down. I wanted it to break down
because I still take it to a location and more importantly when I'm not
working on a job or project my wife's car gets parked in the garage.
The fancy top, is very rigid and flat, the goal. The tool storage is
just a bonus. I'm in the middle of building a quilters design wall for
my wife and it is ironic that this 40x96 inch work surface is a bit too
narrow, but leaps and bounds better that anything I have used in the
past. Did I mention Flat and Rigid? LOL As far as fancy, nothing like
most others that have all of the holes drilled in the top. Jay's is the
acceptation to that too. But his is the older design built with 3/4"
material and 50% heavier than mine that I built with the later design
and 1/2" material.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason.* There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love.* For example, those 5" thick,* solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show.* What a waste they are (IMNSHO).


Yes, piling stuff under a bench is a RPIA. Drawers are my preference
also. I have 4 mobile and one stationary drawer units/chests.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly. He has
2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough. For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface. This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason. There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly. He has
2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough. For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface. This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason. There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a bench with
drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass you need, plus
storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty robust for 99.9999% to
100% of all the work a woodworker will be doing on it. You can bang,
plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top and it won't move or bounce a
silly millimeter. That's more than twice as thick as the plywood floor
in your house that is holding up your grand piano.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand bags on
their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the type that only
does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood shop, build a bench with
drawers to hold your lathe up. You get mass, storage, and build skills
all at once, same with a workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to
do it.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:53:47 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly. He has
2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough. For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface. This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason. There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a bench with
drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass you need, plus
storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty robust for 99.9999% to
100% of all the work a woodworker will be doing on it. You can bang,
plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top and it won't move or bounce a
silly millimeter. That's more than twice as thick as the plywood floor
in your house that is holding up your grand piano.

It don't work that way. The top needs the mass to resist movement.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand bags on
their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the type that only
does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood shop, build a bench with
drawers to hold your lathe up. You get mass, storage, and build skills
all at once, same with a workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to
do it.

It's amazing that you know more than woodworkers who have been doing
this for their entire life.

On 2/28/2018 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:53:47 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/




See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with cutting the top of the
bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core door with a sheet of
3/4" MDF
just sitting on top, held in place by side rails 1/4" shy of the
surface. I'm not short on space so portability wasn't
important. It's
on casters but it never moves more than a foot or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy accordion folding work
table "the
centipede" I think it was called? Everyone got all over the Comet
cause he thought it looked gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on YouTube before.
Looks ok
but takes up lots of floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot print of 20"x17".
You
probably take up more space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it has a full sheet of
plywood on top. To me, a full sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on
anything 20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side by side. Each
is 96"
long, 20" wide, and 8.5" tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with
the bottom of one against the top of the other the foot print is
20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how you get the long
96" dimension to store against the wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have space for it. Kevin has
space for it, I personally don't really need it, nor have any space
for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not build one for
yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin should build one,
he won't even need to store it with his 2000' shop. Make it same height
as TS and he has a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be good for an
outfeed table, for the same reasons. I don't currently have one,
mostly because it hasn't floated to the top of the "do" list. But
when I do build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided if I want it on
wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were Kevin, not sure
why. Also not sure what "the same reasons" are you mention that it
wouldn't work as an outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing it down
between uses, is it has no storage. I would put it on wheels, put
drawered cabinet under the top and make it the right height for the TS
outfeed. I try to have cabinets under most of my big tools, other
than drill press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described by its
designer, it to be a portable work surface that is (relatively) light,
quickly set-up and torn down, and can be easily handled by one person,
and also have some of the features of a shop workbench, like
under-surface temporary tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you might as well
build a non-portable, regular shop work table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly. He has
2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough. For most a pair
of saw horses is all that's needed for a portable work surface. This
thing Leon built is really just a fancy top for a pair of saw horses,
and would seem best suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates
has a youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with drawers and such
for storage, and I'm not a fan of open shelves under a bench. They end
up collecting junk thats hard to find and dig out. Drawers were invented
for a reason. There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that
many people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple, drawerless
work benches with tool tray in the back of the top that all the books
show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a bench with
drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass you need, plus
storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty robust for 99.9999% to
100% of all the work a woodworker will be doing on it. You can bang,
plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top and it won't move or bounce a
silly millimeter. That's more than twice as thick as the plywood floor
in your house that is holding up your grand piano.

It don't work that way. The top needs the mass to resist movement.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand bags on
their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the type that only
does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood shop, build a bench with
drawers to hold your lathe up. You get mass, storage, and build skills
all at once, same with a workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to
do it.

It's amazing that you know more than woodworkers who have been doing
this for their entire life.

Amazing that woodworkers that have been doing it their entire life don't
agree with me, who has been doing it his entire life as well. I
explained the reasons behind my extremely experienced opinion, you are
free to disagree and give the basis for disagreement. Saying others
disagree with me is rather lame, but expected from one with about no
experience. Besides, if you look around, you will see very few actual
wood shops with 5" thick $1000 maple worktops, so apparently plenty of
woodworkers agree with me. Also, if you own a lathe, why would you
rather have sand bags holding it down than a cabinet with drawers full
of tools and stuff? Even someone like you should be able to figure it
out, let alone one with a lifetime of experience.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/2/18 9:01 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/28/2018 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:53:47 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/






See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with
cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core
door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF just sitting
on top, held in place by side rails 1/4"
shy of the surface. I'm not short on space
so portability wasn't important. It's on
casters but it never moves more than a foot
or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy
accordion folding work table "the centipede"
I think it was called? Everyone got all
over the Comet cause he thought it looked
gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on
YouTube before. Looks ok but takes up lots of
floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot
print of 20"x17". You probably take up more
space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it
has a full sheet of plywood on top. To me, a full
sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on anything
20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side
by side. Each is 96" long, 20" wide, and 8.5"
tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with the
bottom of one against the top of the other the foot
print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how
you get the long 96" dimension to store against the
wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have
space for it. Kevin has space for it, I
personally don't really need it, nor have any
space for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not
build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin
should build one, he won't even need to store it with
his 2000' shop. Make it same height as TS and he has
a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have
one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be
good for an outfeed table, for the same reasons. I
don't currently have one, mostly because it hasn't
floated to the top of the "do" list. But when I do
build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting
table. I already have the parts (though haven't decided
if I want it on wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were
Kevin, not sure why. Also not sure what "the same
reasons" are you mention that it wouldn't work as an
outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing
it down between uses, is it has no storage. I would put
it on wheels, put drawered cabinet under the top and make
it the right height for the TS outfeed. I try to have
cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described
by its designer, it to be a portable work surface that is
(relatively) light, quickly set-up and torn down, and can
be easily handled by one person, and also have some of the
features of a shop workbench, like under-surface temporary
tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you
might as well build a non-portable, regular shop work
table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly.
He has 2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough.
For most a pair of saw horses is all that's needed for a
portable work surface. This thing Leon built is really just
a fancy top for a pair of saw horses, and would seem best
suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates has a
youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with
drawers and such for storage, and I'm not a fan of open
shelves under a bench. They end up collecting junk thats hard
to find and dig out. Drawers were invented for a reason.
There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that many
people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple,
drawerless work benches with tool tray in the back of the top
that all the books show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a
bench with drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass
you need, plus storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty
robust for 99.9999% to 100% of all the work a woodworker will be
doing on it. You can bang, plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top
and it won't move or bounce a silly millimeter. That's more than
twice as thick as the plywood floor in your house that is holding
up your grand piano.

It don't work that way. The top needs the mass to resist
movement.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand
bags on their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the
type that only does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood
shop, build a bench with drawers to hold your lathe up. You get
mass, storage, and build skills all at once, same with a
workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to do it.

It's amazing that you know more than woodworkers who have been
doing this for their entire life.

Amazing that woodworkers that have been doing it their entire life
don't agree with me, who has been doing it his entire life as well. I
explained the reasons behind my extremely experienced opinion, you
are free to disagree and give the basis for disagreement. Saying
others disagree with me is rather lame, but expected from one with
about no experience. Besides, if you look around, you will see very
few actual wood shops with 5" thick $1000 maple worktops, so
apparently plenty of woodworkers agree with me.

Woodworking has certainly changed a lot since those heavy types of
workbenches were necessary. Power tools have changed our world and the
types of work surfaces we need.
I think that's enough to explain why you don't see those hulking benches
much anymore.


Also, if you own a lathe, why would you rather have sand bags holding
it down than a cabinet with drawers full of tools and stuff? Even
someone like you should be able to figure it out, let alone one with
a lifetime of experience.


Now you're just trying to force your preference on others. :-)
When I had my lathe I did both. I added covered storage underneath for
the lathe-associated tools and that was extremely handy. I also had
sandbags and/or brake drums on the bottom.
But to criticize someone for not building a cabinet into their lathe
stand is a bit narrow-minded to me. Maybe these people have plenty of
room in the shop and don't need the extra storage space. Yeah, I know,
that's an oxymoron, but I'm sure there are unicorn woodworkers out there
with lots of room in their shops.

In my shop, the cabinet tops *are* work spaces and if I had tools
permanently attached, I would need to build more work space. I'd rather
have bigger power tools on mobile bases and roll them in and out of the
work area. If/when I have a big enough shop, I'll gladly have dedicated
floor space for each and every tool station.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/2/2018 11:07 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/2/18 9:01 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/28/2018 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:53:47 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/







See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with
cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core
door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF just sitting
on top, held in place by side rails 1/4"
shy of the surface. I'm not short on space
so portability wasn't important. It's on
casters but it never moves more than a foot
or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy
accordion folding work table "the centipede"
I think it was called? Everyone got all
over the Comet cause he thought it looked
gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on
YouTube before. Looks ok but takes up lots of
floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot
print of 20"x17". You probably take up more
space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it
has a full sheet of plywood on top. To me, a full
sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on anything
20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side
by side. Each is 96" long, 20" wide, and 8.5"
tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with the
bottom of one against the top of the other the foot
print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how
you get the long 96" dimension to store against the
wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have
space for it. Kevin has space for it, I
personally don't really need it, nor have any space for it
if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not
build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin
should build one, he won't even need to store it with
his 2000' shop. Make it same height as TS and he has
a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have
one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be
good for an outfeed table, for the same reasons. I
don't currently have one, mostly because it hasn't
floated to the top of the "do" list. But when I do
build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting table. I
already have the parts (though haven't decided
if I want it on wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were
Kevin, not sure why. Also not sure what "the same
reasons" are you mention that it wouldn't work as an
outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing
it down between uses, is it has no storage. I would put
it on wheels, put drawered cabinet under the top and make
it the right height for the TS outfeed. I try to have
cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described
by its designer, it to be a portable work surface that is
(relatively) light, quickly set-up and torn down, and can
be easily handled by one person, and also have some of the
features of a shop workbench, like under-surface temporary
tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you
might as well build a non-portable, regular shop work
table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly.
He has 2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough.
For most a pair of saw horses is all that's needed for a
portable work surface. This thing Leon built is really just
a fancy top for a pair of saw horses, and would seem best
suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates has a
youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with
drawers and such for storage, and I'm not a fan of open
shelves under a bench. They end up collecting junk thats hard
to find and dig out. Drawers were invented for a reason.
There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that many
people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple,
drawerless work benches with tool tray in the back of the top
that all the books show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a
bench with drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass
you need, plus storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty
robust for 99.9999% to 100% of all the work a woodworker will be
doing on it. You can bang, plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top
and it won't move or bounce a silly millimeter. That's more than
twice as thick as the plywood floor in your house that is holding
up your grand piano.

It don't work that way. The top needs the mass to resist
movement.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand
bags on their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the
type that only does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood
shop, build a bench with drawers to hold your lathe up. You get
mass, storage, and build skills all at once, same with a
workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to do it.

It's amazing that you know more than woodworkers who have been
doing this for their entire life.

Amazing that woodworkers that have been doing it their entire life
don't agree with me, who has been doing it his entire life as well. I
explained the reasons behind my extremely experienced opinion, you
are free to disagree and give the basis for disagreement. Saying
others disagree with me is rather lame, but expected from one with
about no experience. Besides, if you look around, you will see very
few actual wood shops with 5" thick $1000 maple worktops, so
apparently plenty of woodworkers agree with me.

Woodworking has certainly changed a lot since those heavy types of
workbenches were necessary. Power tools have changed our world and the
types of work surfaces we need.
I think that's enough to explain why you don't see those hulking benches
much anymore.

But we see those types of benches advertised, plans everywhere and so
on. If power tools changed anything it would be how easy it is to build
a cabinet with drawers full of tools instead of a $1000 5" thick maple
top for bulk, that had no storage other than a shelf.

Also, if you own a lathe, why would you rather have sand bags holding
it down than a cabinet with drawers full of tools and stuff? Even
someone like you should be able to figure it out, let alone one with
a lifetime of experience.


Now you're just trying to force your preference on others. :-)

Not at all, just vocalizing my opinion. I have no problem with someone
else spending a $1000 on an unneeded maple top for a bench with no
storage. Or building a stand for a lathe with no storage, and throwing a
sand bag on it for bulk. The lathe I could see if the turner had few
tools, and no skills to build a cabinet with drawers.

When I had my lathe I did both. I added covered storage underneath for
the lathe-associated tools and that was extremely handy. I also had
sandbags and/or brake drums on the bottom.

But to criticize someone for not building a cabinet into their lathe
stand is a bit narrow-minded to me. Maybe these people have plenty of
room in the shop and don't need the extra storage space. Yeah, I know,
that's an oxymoron, but I'm sure there are unicorn woodworkers out there
with lots of room in their shops.

I'd guess few home shops have enough room to waste space. Some might,
but most don't. When I see plans on the net for workbenches and lathe
stands, they almost always have no storage other than a shelf or two.
My opinion based on a lifetime of experience is that is lame. Actually,
that was my opinion before I had a lifetime of experience, and I'd think
it was just plain common sense.

Router tables of course have complicated cabinets with drawers to store
router bits and all that, not bad but really, a router is a portable
tool. a stand can be a flat piece of wood clamped to the workbench
(particularly easy if your work bench top isn't 5 inches thick)

In my shop, the cabinet tops *are* work spaces and if I had tools
permanently attached, I would need to build more work space. I'd rather
have bigger power tools on mobile bases and roll them in and out of the
work area. If/when I have a big enough shop, I'll gladly have dedicated
floor space for each and every tool station.

Thats pretty much my point. Whether your work tops have tools
permanently attached or not, the space under the tops should be for
storage, lots of drawers to put stuff in. This really doesn't change
much even with plenty of space. Even with a 2000' shop like Keith has,
my experience is you need a place for everything, and cabinets with
plenty of drawers is the way to go. If building a cabinet for storage,
might as well design to hold a lathe, or building a workbench, might as
well build drawers for storage while you are at it. Just makes sense to
me. That doesn't negate building a tear down assembly table like
Leon's. That's not what I'm talking about.



--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:07:13 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/2/18 9:01 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/28/2018 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:53:47 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/27/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:33:41 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/25/2018 12:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/25/18 10:19 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/24/2018 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:47:30 -0500, Jack
wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:03 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/23/2018 8:58 AM, Jack wrote:
On 2/20/2018 9:31 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/19/2018 4:30 PM, Jack wrote:
On 2/18/2018 6:41 PM, wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...posted-public/






See? The fishing works. ;-)

I like it. A lot! How do you deal with
cutting the top of the bench?

I built my cutting bench on a solid-core
door with a sheet of 3/4" MDF just sitting
on top, held in place by side rails 1/4"
shy of the surface. I'm not short on space
so portability wasn't important. It's on
casters but it never moves more than a foot
or two.

Wasn't it you that bought that goofy
accordion folding work table "the centipede"
I think it was called? Everyone got all
over the Comet cause he thought it looked
gimmick-ee.

Anyway, this thing Leon built I've seen on
YouTube before. Looks ok but takes up lots of
floor/wall space.

When not in use and being stored it has a foot
print of 20"x17". You probably take up more
space when you are staining in the shop.

From the picture and your comments, you say it
has a full sheet of plywood on top. To me, a full
sheet of plywood wouldn't fit on anything
20x17"?


Picture this, the work bench is "2" sections, side
by side. Each is 96" long, 20" wide, and 8.5"
tall. If I stand both on end, 96" tall, with the
bottom of one against the top of the other the foot
print is 20"x17".

You lost me on the 96" long part. It's not clear how
you get the long 96" dimension to store against the
wall in a 20x8.5" space?

Anyway, it looks OK if you need it, and have
space for it. Kevin has space for it, I
personally don't really need it, nor have any
space for it if I did need it.

With that comment, I would recommend that you not
build one for yourself.

Thanks, I'll take your advice on that. I think Kevin
should build one, he won't even need to store it with
his 2000' shop. Make it same height as TS and he has
a nice out feed table if he doesn't already have
one.

If you mean me (it's "Keith", BTW), no it wouldn't be
good for an outfeed table, for the same reasons. I
don't currently have one, mostly because it hasn't
floated to the top of the "do" list. But when I do
build one, it'll be made the same way as my cutting
table. I already have the parts (though haven't decided
if I want it on wheels).

Yes, sorry about the name, I always thought you were
Kevin, not sure why. Also not sure what "the same
reasons" are you mention that it wouldn't work as an
outfeed table?

What I don't like about it, assuming you are not tearing
it down between uses, is it has no storage. I would put
it on wheels, put drawered cabinet under the top and make
it the right height for the TS outfeed. I try to have
cabinets under most of my big tools, other than drill
press, planer and shaper.


I believe the intended purpose of the table, as described
by its designer, it to be a portable work surface that is
(relatively) light, quickly set-up and torn down, and can
be easily handled by one person, and also have some of the
features of a shop workbench, like under-surface temporary
tool storage.

If you put wheels and cabinets underneath, when then you
might as well build a non-portable, regular shop work
table. :-)

Yes, for Kevin, I mean Keith, that was my thoughts exactly.
He has 2000' of work space. Wheels makes it portable enough.
For most a pair of saw horses is all that's needed for a
portable work surface. This thing Leon built is really just
a fancy top for a pair of saw horses, and would seem best
suited to hauling around to work sites. Jay Bates has a
youtube video of one he built, and made it permanent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvkdU5kkqA

I see that as rather dumb, would prefer a cabinet with
drawers and such for storage, and I'm not a fan of open
shelves under a bench. They end up collecting junk thats hard
to find and dig out. Drawers were invented for a reason.
There is a lot of stuff I'm not a fan of however, that many
people love. For example, those 5" thick, solid maple,
drawerless work benches with tool tray in the back of the top
that all the books show. What a waste they are (IMNSHO).

That 5" thick top gives the bench some mass so it doesn't try
escaping, stage left, while you're playing with planes and
chisels/mallets.

No need for a super expensive maple top that thick. Build a
bench with drawers full of tools and you will have all the mass
you need, plus storage. An inch and a half pine top is plenty
robust for 99.9999% to 100% of all the work a woodworker will be
doing on it. You can bang, plane and chisel all day an 1 1/2" top
and it won't move or bounce a silly millimeter. That's more than
twice as thick as the plywood floor in your house that is holding
up your grand piano.

It don't work that way. The top needs the mass to resist
movement.

Another thing that makes me laugh is woodworkers putting sand
bags on their lathe to give it mass. OK I guess if you are the
type that only does turnings, but for a guy with a basic wood
shop, build a bench with drawers to hold your lathe up. You get
mass, storage, and build skills all at once, same with a
workbench, and you don't need expensive wood to do it.

It's amazing that you know more than woodworkers who have been
doing this for their entire life.

Amazing that woodworkers that have been doing it their entire life
don't agree with me, who has been doing it his entire life as well. I
explained the reasons behind my extremely experienced opinion, you
are free to disagree and give the basis for disagreement. Saying
others disagree with me is rather lame, but expected from one with
about no experience. Besides, if you look around, you will see very
few actual wood shops with 5" thick $1000 maple worktops, so
apparently plenty of woodworkers agree with me.

Woodworking has certainly changed a lot since those heavy types of
workbenches were necessary. Power tools have changed our world and the
types of work surfaces we need.
I think that's enough to explain why you don't see those hulking benches
much anymore.

But what "Doesn't know Jack" doesn't get is that there are still
Neanders out there, who appreciate a good Neander bench. I don't have
a desire for such a bench because I'm more of a Tim. OTOH, I don't
like Festering tool "benches" because they are way too spindly. I
don't like my work moving around under my (more power) tools. The
Festool router table is just nuts.

Also, if you own a lathe, why would you rather have sand bags holding
it down than a cabinet with drawers full of tools and stuff? Even
someone like you should be able to figure it out, let alone one with
a lifetime of experience.


Now you're just trying to force your preference on others. :-)

Lefties do that.

When I had my lathe I did both. I added covered storage underneath for
the lathe-associated tools and that was extremely handy. I also had
sandbags and/or brake drums on the bottom.
But to criticize someone for not building a cabinet into their lathe
stand is a bit narrow-minded to me. Maybe these people have plenty of
room in the shop and don't need the extra storage space. Yeah, I know,
that's an oxymoron, but I'm sure there are unicorn woodworkers out there
with lots of room in their shops.

Or the storage space is more useful elsewhere. OTOH, a cabinet under
a lathe may make cleanup a little easier (not so many nooks and
crannies to collect shavings).

In my shop, the cabinet tops *are* work spaces and if I had tools
permanently attached, I would need to build more work space. I'd rather
have bigger power tools on mobile bases and roll them in and out of the
work area. If/when I have a big enough shop, I'll gladly have dedicated
floor space for each and every tool station.

The drawback is that things get further apart. Need a screwdriver?
Dang, they're in the other room.

On 3/3/2018 10:42 AM, wrote:
Snip


But what "Doesn't know Jack" doesn't get is that there are still
Neanders out there, who appreciate a good Neander bench. I don't have
a desire for such a bench because I'm more of a Tim. OTOH, I don't
like Festering tool "benches" because they are way too spindly. I
don't like my work moving around under my (more power) tools. The
Festool router table is just nuts.

FWIW I have the larger Festool work table. It does wobble...and there
are braces to add at an additional cost. I have used this bench
extensively over the past 5 or so years. The wobble does not bother me.
Like you I thought it would drive me nuts. But I do not notice the
wobble when I am using it to hold clamped work when using the Domino, or
when sanding, or when using the cross cut for the track saw. I love
it's versatility and because it has all the holes for dogs and clamps
and slots for vertical clamping I chose not to make my latest work
surface with holes in the top.



Also, if you own a lathe, why would you rather have sand bags holding
it down than a cabinet with drawers full of tools and stuff? Even
someone like you should be able to figure it out, let alone one with
a lifetime of experience.


Now you're just trying to force your preference on others. :-)

Lefties do that.

When I had my lathe I did both. I added covered storage underneath for
the lathe-associated tools and that was extremely handy. I also had
sandbags and/or brake drums on the bottom.
But to criticize someone for not building a cabinet into their lathe
stand is a bit narrow-minded to me. Maybe these people have plenty of
room in the shop and don't need the extra storage space. Yeah, I know,
that's an oxymoron, but I'm sure there are unicorn woodworkers out there
with lots of room in their shops.

Or the storage space is more useful elsewhere. OTOH, a cabinet under
a lathe may make cleanup a little easier (not so many nooks and
crannies to collect shavings).

In my shop, the cabinet tops *are* work spaces and if I had tools
permanently attached, I would need to build more work space. I'd rather
have bigger power tools on mobile bases and roll them in and out of the
work area. If/when I have a big enough shop, I'll gladly have dedicated
floor space for each and every tool station.

The drawback is that things get further apart. Need a screwdriver?
Dang, they're in the other room.

wrote in
:

*trim*

The drawback is that things get further apart. Need a screwdriver?
Dang, they're in the other room.

It doesn't seem to matter how many you have, either! They're *all* in the
other room!

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 3/3/2018 1:19 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

*trim*

The drawback is that things get further apart. Need a screwdriver?
Dang, they're in the other room.

It doesn't seem to matter how many you have, either! They're *all* in the
other room!

AND..... not where they are suppose to be once you get there.

On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 19:19:57 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

wrote in
:

*trim*

The drawback is that things get further apart. Need a screwdriver?
Dang, they're in the other room.

It doesn't seem to matter how many you have, either! They're *all* in the
other room!

Puckdropper

Thank you for trimming