This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.



I have taken plywood back when the surface is not glued down.
Additionally, and this will confuse you even more, my supplier offers
donestic and import plywood. Domestic is always more expensive and not
always better. ;~(

On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

Wood shipped to China, sent back as wood potato chips, light on the glue.

What the world thinks of the US the past 8 years ...

Prepare yourself for more of the same.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/6/16 8:33 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.



I have taken plywood back when the surface is not glued down.
Additionally, and this will confuse you even more, my supplier offers
donestic and import plywood. Domestic is always more expensive and not
always better. ;~(


The stuff that opened up in the middle after cutting will be going back.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Saturday, November 5, 2016 at 11:44:24 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

Where did you buy it. I'll be sure to avoid that place.

On 11/6/16 8:36 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

Wood shipped to China, sent back as wood potato chips, light on the
glue.

What the world thinks of the US the past 8 years ...

Prepare yourself for more of the same.


Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

In my strategy to adapt to survive, I've actually been doing a lot of
furniture assembly for good cash. People buy all this "boxed furniture"
and it's a very daunting task to put it all together if you've never
done it before. I've gotten pretty quick at it and even know to bring
spare parts and proper glue with me.

After having assembled so many different brands of this crap, I've
actually been brainwashed into being encouraged when I run into an Ikea
box. At least with Ikea, it's designed well, the metal parts aren't
going to snap, there's some actual solid wood in many components, and
I'm not going to have to preemptive repairs to ward off call-backs. I
show up to the client's house'office and see an Ikea box and I'm like,
"Oh great, the good stuff." How sick is that? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

Quality Control via the consumer, shift the scrap down the hill, and
you know what runs down hill.

Mark

On 11/6/2016 10:38 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

After having assembled so many different brands of this crap, I've
actually been brainwashed into being encouraged when I run into an Ikea
box. At least with Ikea, it's designed well, the metal parts aren't
going to snap, there's some actual solid wood in many components, and
I'm not going to have to preemptive repairs to ward off call-backs. I
show up to the client's house'office and see an Ikea box and I'm like,
"Oh great, the good stuff." How sick is that? :-)

I'd say damned sick, then again it may be better built than some of the
houses it's going in ....


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.


--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 08:36:34 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

Wood shipped to China, sent back as wood potato chips, light on the glue.

What the world thinks of the US the past 8 years ...

Prepare yourself for more of the same.

True, very true.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood?
The cheapest crap you could buy?

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:49:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

If you enjoy sleeping in termite vomit, I certainly won't stop you.

On 11/6/16 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when the
squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet of
plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least
half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75
Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it
down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess
I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've
gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?


No idea the country of origin.
The cheapest I could buy? Yes, in my area.
It's BCX, and I'm building industrial storage bins, so I don't expect
nor even want perfection. What I *do* reasonably expect is for basic,
minimum quality standards for plywood to be met.

Among the minimum quality standards are 1. straight & square, and 2. the
plies of the "ply"wood to actually be glued together. Without the
latter, I submit that it's not even plywood, but simply a quantity of
stacked veneers.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:35:02 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/6/16 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when the
squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet of
plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least
half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75
Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it
down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess
I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've
gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?


No idea the country of origin.
The cheapest I could buy? Yes, in my area.
It's BCX, and I'm building industrial storage bins, so I don't expect
nor even want perfection. What I *do* reasonably expect is for basic,
minimum quality standards for plywood to be met.

Among the minimum quality standards are 1. straight & square, and 2. the
plies of the "ply"wood to actually be glued together. Without the
latter, I submit that it's not even plywood, but simply a quantity of
stacked veneers.

I wouldn't think it would pass the spec for structural plywood, which
is what CDX is. It's probably on the roofs of 90% of the houses built
today, though. Perhaps you should use roofing nails to fasten it back
together?

On 11/6/16 8:23 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:35:02 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/6/16 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when the
squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet of
plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least
half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75
Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it
down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess
I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've
gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?


No idea the country of origin.
The cheapest I could buy? Yes, in my area.
It's BCX, and I'm building industrial storage bins, so I don't expect
nor even want perfection. What I *do* reasonably expect is for basic,
minimum quality standards for plywood to be met.

Among the minimum quality standards are 1. straight & square, and 2. the
plies of the "ply"wood to actually be glued together. Without the
latter, I submit that it's not even plywood, but simply a quantity of
stacked veneers.

I wouldn't think it would pass the spec for structural plywood, which
is what CDX is. It's probably on the roofs of 90% of the houses built
today, though. Perhaps you should use roofing nails to fasten it back
together?


LMAO! I literally laughed out loud at that.
That's probably what the Home Depot guy will tell me when I return it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article a5mv1c9ogk5n03qt9efj9dmb4rvdsq46ca@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:49:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

If you enjoy sleeping in termite vomit, I certainly won't stop you.

Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:23:29 -0500, krw wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:35:02 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/6/16 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when the
squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet of
plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least
half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75
Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it
down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess
I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've
gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?


No idea the country of origin.
The cheapest I could buy? Yes, in my area.
It's BCX, and I'm building industrial storage bins, so I don't expect
nor even want perfection. What I *do* reasonably expect is for basic,
minimum quality standards for plywood to be met.

Among the minimum quality standards are 1. straight & square, and 2. the
plies of the "ply"wood to actually be glued together. Without the
latter, I submit that it's not even plywood, but simply a quantity of
stacked veneers.

I wouldn't think it would pass the spec for structural plywood, which
is what CDX is. It's probably on the roofs of 90% of the houses built
today, though. Perhaps you should use roofing nails to fasten it back
together?
Where to you live that they use CDX ply on 90% of roofs? Around hear
better than 90% is one or another type of OSB. Terrible stuff, in my
opinion.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 21:39:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article a5mv1c9ogk5n03qt9efj9dmb4rvdsq46ca@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:49:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

If you enjoy sleeping in termite vomit, I certainly won't stop you.

Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

No, I don't like termite vomit for furniture and Ikea is the worst of
the worst. Like many here, at least one would expect in a NG with
"woodworking" in its name, that most like real wood. Yes, I
appreciate fine things. Sue me.

I don't have a particular fondness for Toyotas either but you're
welcome to guess again.

You really are one sensitive *******. Please do killfile me if you
can't stand a disagreement. You simply aren't worth it.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:39:57 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:23:29 -0500, krw wrote:

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:35:02 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/6/16 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when the
squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet of
plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least
half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75
Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it
down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess
I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've
gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it
looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?


No idea the country of origin.
The cheapest I could buy? Yes, in my area.
It's BCX, and I'm building industrial storage bins, so I don't expect
nor even want perfection. What I *do* reasonably expect is for basic,
minimum quality standards for plywood to be met.

Among the minimum quality standards are 1. straight & square, and 2. the
plies of the "ply"wood to actually be glued together. Without the
latter, I submit that it's not even plywood, but simply a quantity of
stacked veneers.

I wouldn't think it would pass the spec for structural plywood, which
is what CDX is. It's probably on the roofs of 90% of the houses built
today, though. Perhaps you should use roofing nails to fasten it back
together?
Where to you live that they use CDX ply on 90% of roofs? Around hear
better than 90% is one or another type of OSB. Terrible stuff, in my
opinion.

Anywhere hurricanes/high winds are an issue. My houses have all had
CDX roof decking, even in Vermont (where ice and water was the issue).
OSB is often used on walls, with CDX corners, but anyone who uses it
on roofs should be taken out and shot.

In article qvsv1c5mit0ca2a4uip0drgrlei5mhq9dn@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 21:39:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article a5mv1c9ogk5n03qt9efj9dmb4rvdsq46ca@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:49:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

If you enjoy sleeping in termite vomit, I certainly won't stop you.

Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

No, I don't like termite vomit for furniture and Ikea is the worst of
the worst. Like many here, at least one would expect in a NG with
"woodworking" in its name, that most like real wood. Yes, I
appreciate fine things. Sue me.

I don't have a particular fondness for Toyotas either but you're
welcome to guess again.

You really are one sensitive *******. Please do killfile me if you
can't stand a disagreement. You simply aren't worth it.

It's not disagreement, it's use of cutesy
pejoratives. And into the killfile you go.

plonk

BC kinda takes your chance.

AB is good.

What brand is it - is it metric ? Likely from Chile.

Martin

On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.

On 11/6/16 10:00 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
BC kinda takes your chance.

AB is good.

What brand is it - is it metric ? Likely from Chile.

Martin


I disagree. You shouldn't have to "take your chance" on basic standards
of manufacturing. By that reason, if one buys the cheapest tire off the
shelf, then if it doesn't hold air, well, "Tough luck, you bought the
cheap stuff." That's bull$h!t and any attempt to defend it is simply
rationalization for what has become a very substandard industry.

There are grades of plywood for a reason and it's mostly cosmetic, and
has nothing to do with the quality of manufacturing.
The grading of plywood should never be a determining factor for the
minimum standards of all plywood.

I don't care *what* grade the plywood is, or how low, if that $h!t
de-laminates on its own, it's defective, plain and simple.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:


Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

That would be me! I also refer to my DeWalt 740 as a "Radio Alarm Slaw".

I haven't gone over the edge *yet*, I've got the tools and talent to
sharpen a pencil on the lathe but have yet to do so. Although... I wonder
what would be faster: New pencil on the lathe or in the pencil sharpener.

Puckdropper

In article 5820152d$0$34559$c3e8da3$dbd57e7
@news.astraweb.com, Puckdropper says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:


Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

That would be me! I also refer to my DeWalt 740 as a "Radio Alarm Slaw".

I haven't gone over the edge *yet*, I've got the tools and talent to
sharpen a pencil on the lathe but have yet to do so. Although... I wonder
what would be faster: New pencil on the lathe or in the pencil sharpener.

The thing is, you're not a jerk about it. Some
people act like the choices they make are the
only correct choices and the use of one product
over another makes them somehow superior. I get
bored with that very quickly--discussions with
such people quickly turn into something that
resembles theology and if I wanted to discuss
theology I'd have joined the clergy.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:43:16 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article qvsv1c5mit0ca2a4uip0drgrlei5mhq9dn@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 21:39:19 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article a5mv1c9ogk5n03qt9efj9dmb4rvdsq46ca@
4ax.com, says...

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:49:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:38:06 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

Unfortunately for people who still care about craftsmanship, that's the
world today.
People see an $600 armoire from Ikea and think it's quality. I mean
hey, at least Ikea is using solid wood in many of their items, now,
instead of all termite vomit. That's where the bar is set now.

Last time we needed furniture (a credenza) we went to a consignment
store. Paid $300 for a used one made by a company in Tennessee. All
hardwood (cherry outside), dovetailed drawers, very well made.

Next time I go downstairs to the family room, I'll check the name and
post it - maybe they still make quality stuff.

You know that termite vomit is the Scandinavian
way, do you not? I sleep in a very pretty bed
that was very expensive 30 years ago, with a lot
of real teak on it, but any large flat surface
has MDF or a reasonable facsimile thereof
underneath.

If you enjoy sleeping in termite vomit, I certainly won't stop you.

Works for me. However I really should just
killfile. People who call MDF "termite vomit"
and like Toyota have something _wrong_ with
them.

No, I don't like termite vomit for furniture and Ikea is the worst of
the worst. Like many here, at least one would expect in a NG with
"woodworking" in its name, that most like real wood. Yes, I
appreciate fine things. Sue me.

I don't have a particular fondness for Toyotas either but you're
welcome to guess again.

You really are one sensitive *******. Please do killfile me if you
can't stand a disagreement. You simply aren't worth it.

It's not disagreement, it's use of cutesy
pejoratives. And into the killfile you go.

plonk

You really are a whiney little bitch. Keep me there.

krw writes:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:43:16 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



It's not disagreement, it's use of cutesy
pejoratives. And into the killfile you go.

plonk

You really are a whiney little bitch. Keep me there.

This, from the guy who called an entire state a "hole" in
an earlier post today. Look in the mirror much?

On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 16:04:41 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

krw writes:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:43:16 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



It's not disagreement, it's use of cutesy
pejoratives. And into the killfile you go.

plonk

You really are a whiney little bitch. Keep me there.

This, from the guy who called an entire state a "hole" in
an earlier post today. Look in the mirror much?

Another whiney bitch heard from.

You got that right. Illinois is a real **** hole. Worse, even than
New York or California, though they get honorable mention.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 22:46:18 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 11/6/16 10:00 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
BC kinda takes your chance.

AB is good.

What brand is it - is it metric ? Likely from Chile.

Martin


I disagree. You shouldn't have to "take your chance" on basic standards
of manufacturing. By that reason, if one buys the cheapest tire off the
shelf, then if it doesn't hold air, well, "Tough luck, you bought the
cheap stuff." That's bull$h!t and any attempt to defend it is simply
rationalization for what has become a very substandard industry.

There are grades of plywood for a reason and it's mostly cosmetic, and
has nothing to do with the quality of manufacturing.
The grading of plywood should never be a determining factor for the
minimum standards of all plywood.

I don't care *what* grade the plywood is, or how low, if that $h!t
de-laminates on its own, it's defective, plain and simple.
No arguement there - but buying the cheapest crap you can buy greatly
increases the likelihood that it WILL be defective.

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 11:12:42 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/6/16 8:33 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.



I have taken plywood back when the surface is not glued down.
Additionally, and this will confuse you even more, my supplier offers
donestic and import plywood. Domestic is always more expensive and not
always better. ;~(


The stuff that opened up in the middle after cutting will be going back.


Unfortunately it will only be going back to the store that you bought it
from and maybe, just maybe, the distributor. Odds are it will never make
it back to the manufacturer for inspection and possible process improvement..

You'll get your money back but the problem will still exist.

On 11/7/16 2:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 11:12:42 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/6/16 8:33 AM, Leon wrote:
On 11/5/2016 11:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
This might seem like DéjÃ* vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.



I have taken plywood back when the surface is not glued down.
Additionally, and this will confuse you even more, my supplier offers
donestic and import plywood. Domestic is always more expensive and not
always better. ;~(


The stuff that opened up in the middle after cutting will be going back.


Unfortunately it will only be going back to the store that you bought it
from and maybe, just maybe, the distributor. Odds are it will never make
it back to the manufacturer for inspection and possible process improvement.

You'll get your money back but the problem will still exist.


I'm not on a crusade. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/6/2016 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood?
The cheapest crap you could buy?



And oddly very often better quality than domestic costing 30% more.

On 11/7/16 3:19 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/6/2016 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure
I've posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!? There was a day when
the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the room was a sheet
of plywood. I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at
least half of them aren't square. I realize I'm not talking
about $75 Baltic birch cabinet grade stuff, here, but can we at
least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can
adjust the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I
guess I wouldn't be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that
I've gotten "expensive" plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a
big bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah,
it looks like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood? The cheapest crap you could buy?



And oddly very often better quality than domestic costing 30% more.

Yep! I find it varies, greatly depending on the lot.
Apparently, even from Asia you don't want thing made on a Monday morning
or Friday afternoon. :-)

I got some 13 ply, 3/4" baltic once from HD that was sitting on a pallet
marked "special buy" and "closeout." $25 a sheet!!! And I only
bought one.

To this day, some of the highest quality cabinet grade plywood I've ever
used.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote in :


Yep! I find it varies, greatly depending on the lot.
Apparently, even from Asia you don't want thing made on a Monday morning
or Friday afternoon. :-)

I got some 13 ply, 3/4" baltic once from HD that was sitting on a pallet
marked "special buy" and "closeout." $25 a sheet!!! And I only
bought one.

To this day, some of the highest quality cabinet grade plywood I've ever
used.



I got some of that too. Now that I'm a little older and a lot wiser, I'd
probably buy the pallet! You're just not going to get better stuff,
especially at $25/sheet!

Puckdropper

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 15:19:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 11/6/2016 6:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 23:44:20 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

This might seem like Déjà vu for some, because I'm pretty sure I've
posted about this before, but it bears repeating.

What's the deal with this crappy plywood!?
There was a day when the squarest, straightest, flattest thing in the
room was a sheet of plywood.
I'm working with 54 sheets of 1/2" 4-ply BC and at least half of them
aren't square. I realize I'm not talking about $75 Baltic birch cabinet
grade stuff, here, but can we at least get it down to 1/8" or closer?

I'm sure when the machines are cranking this stuff out, they can adjust
the cutters periodically. How difficult is is it? I guess I wouldn't
be so ****ed off if it weren't for the fact that I've gotten "expensive"
plywood that was crooked, too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last sheet I ripped had a big
bubble pop up in the middle because it wasn't glued. Yeah, it looks
like two 8ft. pieces of pita bread.
Chinese plywood?
The cheapest crap you could buy?



And oddly very often better quality than domestic costing 30% more.
No, the cheapest you can buy is very seldom better than higher priced
domestic. There is good imported stuff that is cheaper than domestic -
and possibly better - but that's not "the cheapest you can buy"

Water based glue used on interior grades will give up if it is
wet or kept in high humidity.

Exterior ply is made of tough strong glue. It doesn't give up.

I suspect you got ply that was in the rain - maybe the stack so your
sheet doesn't look like it got rained on. Also the B is open with
voids. Knot holes. They help wick in moisture.

Standards are based on classes. Dimensions are based on sheet size.

Foreign junk isn't controlled or is ignored at the port or manufacture.

US spec controls US mills and anyone that presses it for quality.

If you are buying Chile or Chinese wood, their spec counts unless the
buyer requires other specs.

Martin


On 11/6/2016 10:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/6/16 10:00 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
BC kinda takes your chance.

AB is good.

What brand is it - is it metric ? Likely from Chile.

Martin


I disagree. You shouldn't have to "take your chance" on basic standards
of manufacturing. By that reason, if one buys the cheapest tire off the
shelf, then if it doesn't hold air, well, "Tough luck, you bought the
cheap stuff." That's bull$h!t and any attempt to defend it is simply
rationalization for what has become a very substandard industry.

There are grades of plywood for a reason and it's mostly cosmetic, and
has nothing to do with the quality of manufacturing.
The grading of plywood should never be a determining factor for the
minimum standards of all plywood.

I don't care *what* grade the plywood is, or how low, if that $h!t
de-laminates on its own, it's defective, plain and simple.

On 11/6/2016 10:39 PM, krw wrote:

Anywhere hurricanes/high winds are an issue. My houses have all had
CDX roof decking, even in Vermont (where ice and water was the issue).
OSB is often used on walls, with CDX corners, but anyone who uses it
on roofs should be taken out and shot.

OSB has been used almost 100% on roofs in my area (PGH) for many years
now. It is the perfect material for roofing. I used it on my shed roof
26 years ago, good as new. It's about impervious to weather. My son
brought home 3 boxes made out of it from a department store warehouse
that something came packed in. We made a couple of feral cat houses out
of it. They have been outside, unfinished in Pgh weather for over 16
years. The are still in very good shape. Only plywood I know they would
last as well is Wolmanized or Cedar. I don't have any recent pics but
other than discoloring, they are very good shape. They outlasted 4 of
the cats, one cat left.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/CHDCP2_1965.JPG
http://jbstein.com/Flick/CHP1030152.JPG

I knew they would last because several cabins on an island near me were
made of this stuff, also unfinished and they were in perfect shape after
many years in the weather, including floods.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/7/2016 4:28 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I got some 13 ply, 3/4" baltic once from HD that was sitting on a pallet
marked "special buy" and "closeout." $25 a sheet!!! And I only
bought one.

To this day, some of the highest quality cabinet grade plywood I've ever
used.

I did exactly the same thing when I built my rolling lumber rack. It
was cheaper than the cheap stuff I planned on using. I had a hard time
cutting it up for rack as it was too good, but I did anyway. Should
have bought more, but I don't build much anymore.

I've never bought plywood that was not square and dimensionally correct
though(width/Length). Moreover, I've noted that the lumber I buy at my
HD is always square. Years ago, when we still had lumber yards around,
lumber was never square and always had to be squared off before using.
Today, I assume because the milling equipment is much better, it is
99.999% square right off the shelf. I'm surprised you are getting
unsquare material. BCX is pretty bad stuff though, you need at least AB
from my experience, but it should at be square...

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/7/2016 9:49 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Water based glue used on interior grades will give up if it is
wet or kept in high humidity.

Exterior ply is made of tough strong glue. It doesn't give up.

I suspect you got ply that was in the rain - maybe the stack so your
sheet doesn't look like it got rained on. Also the B is open with
voids. Knot holes. They help wick in moisture.

I agree completely. Voids are always a problem with lower grade ply.
Should still be square however. If your stuff is not square you need to
complain loudly, that's the mills problem and needs addressed by the
retailer.

Glue is the biggie for outdoor stuff. The wood lasts as long as it can
dry out.

OSB used for roofs must have some awesome glue, impervious to water,
bugs, mold, etc. No living thing seems to eat it, that stuff holds up
quite well. I know from experience. Some here are trashing it (Kevin),
which really surprises me. I guess they never used it and are out to
lunch on this one. When I first noticed it used in homes, I was
surprised. Now I know why it's used. Probably not good for ground
contact, but not much is, other than pressure treated stuff with a high
poison to wood ratio:-)


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 09:07:53 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 11/7/2016 9:49 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
Water based glue used on interior grades will give up if it is
wet or kept in high humidity.

Exterior ply is made of tough strong glue. It doesn't give up.

I suspect you got ply that was in the rain - maybe the stack so your
sheet doesn't look like it got rained on. Also the B is open with
voids. Knot holes. They help wick in moisture.

I agree completely. Voids are always a problem with lower grade ply.
Should still be square however. If your stuff is not square you need to
complain loudly, that's the mills problem and needs addressed by the
retailer.

Glue is the biggie for outdoor stuff. The wood lasts as long as it can
dry out.

OSB used for roofs must have some awesome glue, impervious to water,
bugs, mold, etc. No living thing seems to eat it, that stuff holds up
quite well. I know from experience. Some here are trashing it (Kevin),
which really surprises me. I guess they never used it and are out to
lunch on this one. When I first noticed it used in homes, I was
surprised. Now I know why it's used. Probably not good for ground
contact, but not much is, other than pressure treated stuff with a high
poison to wood ratio:-)
There is OSB, and then there is OSB. Some of it has such a high
resin content it stands up well to moisture - and even soaking. The
rest swells like crazy when it get set, and falls apart like wet
newpaper as soon as it gets wet. Lots of shed kits made of the latter
were sold a few years back - siding was not included but was required
according to the plans. Many never got siding or even a coat of paint,
and they just disintegrated in about 2 or 3 years.. A lot of that
cheap "aspenite" was also used for subfloors, and a water leak
anywhere caused the stuff to give way.