notbob writes:
On 2016-05-19, Mike Marlow wrote:

Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought.

Lucky you!

I've had Century-Link replace my DLS/wifi modem 3 times. The first
two shipped to me were refurbs, neither of which solved the problem.

**NOTE: Century-Link will ship nothing BUT refurbs. NO new modems
shipped to customers**

The third was also a refurb, which the C-L tech brought to my house.
He tried to tell me, "that's the way it is, sometimes". I told him I
was having none of it. I wanted it working right!

He finally relented and said we could try one more thing, but he'd hafta
go to the shop. Back in about 15 mins, he brought a BRAND NEW modem.
Same model as the previous three, but not a refurb. It worked!!
Problem solved. End of story. (which is true)

What were you saying about refurbs?

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.
[*] A company that has little respect and poor customer service.

On 5/19/2016 11:22 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-05-19, Mike Marlow wrote:

Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought.

Lucky you!

I've had Century-Link replace my DLS/wifi modem 3 times. The first
two shipped to me were refurbs, neither of which solved the problem.

**NOTE: Century-Link will ship nothing BUT refurbs. NO new modems
shipped to customers**

The third was also a refurb, which the C-L tech brought to my house.
He tried to tell me, "that's the way it is, sometimes". I told him I
was having none of it. I wanted it working right!

He finally relented and said we could try one more thing, but he'd hafta
go to the shop. Back in about 15 mins, he brought a BRAND NEW modem.
Same model as the previous three, but not a refurb. It worked!!
Problem solved. End of story. (which is true)

What were you saying about refurbs?

nb




Is this a router provided by an internet company? Most often you are
leasing or being provided equipment as part of the "deal". Seldom,
unless you are a brand new customer, do you get anything but refurbished
equipment and I seriously doubt any of that stuff is really refurbished
so much as recycled. I have been down that road.

notbob wrote:
On 2016-05-19, Mike Marlow wrote:

Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought.

Lucky you!

I've had Century-Link replace my DLS/wifi modem 3 times. The first
two shipped to me were refurbs, neither of which solved the problem.

**NOTE: Century-Link will ship nothing BUT refurbs. NO new modems
shipped to customers**

The third was also a refurb, which the C-L tech brought to my house.
He tried to tell me, "that's the way it is, sometimes". I told him I
was having none of it. I wanted it working right!

He finally relented and said we could try one more thing, but he'd hafta
go to the shop. Back in about 15 mins, he brought a BRAND NEW modem.
Same model as the previous three, but not a refurb. It worked!!
Problem solved. End of story. (which is true)

What were you saying about refurbs?


Guess there's always the other side of the story to every story. Sucks
that your experience was what it was, but I've not had that kind of
experience with refurbs. I guess you'd have to question their refurb
process, huh?


--
-Mike-

On 5/19/2016 11:22 AM, notbob wrote:

What were you saying about refurbs?


You do have to be smart about it ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2016-05-19, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

I doubt Century-Link even bothers with the mechanics of modems. Sure,
they gotta put their own splash page on the software, but my modem is
made by Zyxel, one of several modem brands C-L uses.

[*] A company that has little respect and poor customer service.

No argument, there. 8|

nb

notbob writes:
On 2016-05-19, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

I doubt Century-Link even bothers with the mechanics of modems. Sure,
they gotta put their own splash page on the software, but my modem is
made by Zyxel, one of several modem brands C-L uses.

But, you're taking C-L's word that the modem is a refurb, when it
is more likely just a return from another customer.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.


"If you want first quality oats you need to be willing to pay first
quality prices. If on the other hand you are willing to settle for
oats that have already been through the horsr, THEY do come a little
cheaper"

Anything but Dell's highest end laptops tend to fall into the "already
been through the horse" group, along with consumer grade HP/ Compaq
and the low end Acer and Asus models. (and yes, even the low end
Toshiba)

On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:34:48 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

notbob writes:
On 2016-05-19, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

I doubt Century-Link even bothers with the mechanics of modems. Sure,
they gotta put their own splash page on the software, but my modem is
made by Zyxel, one of several modem brands C-L uses.

But, you're taking C-L's word that the modem is a refurb, when it
is more likely just a return from another customer.

And they don't sort the bin between returned for upgrade or returned
on termination of service from the returned reported as defective..

On 5/19/2016 1:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2016-05-19, Mike Marlow wrote:

Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought.

Lucky you!

I've had Century-Link replace my DLS/wifi modem 3 times. The first
two shipped to me were refurbs, neither of which solved the problem.

**NOTE: Century-Link will ship nothing BUT refurbs. NO new modems
shipped to customers**

The third was also a refurb, which the C-L tech brought to my house.
He tried to tell me, "that's the way it is, sometimes". I told him I
was having none of it. I wanted it working right!

He finally relented and said we could try one more thing, but he'd hafta
go to the shop. Back in about 15 mins, he brought a BRAND NEW modem.
Same model as the previous three, but not a refurb. It worked!!
Problem solved. End of story. (which is true)

What were you saying about refurbs?


Guess there's always the other side of the story to every story. Sucks
that your experience was what it was, but I've not had that kind of
experience with refurbs. I guess you'd have to question their refurb
process, huh?


I returned a "unit" to Comcast and all returns go into a pile of other
"Units". I suspect they all get labeled as refurbished and sent back
out with the installer when they sign up a new customer. The installer
then learns whether it was a good unit or bad unit that was turned in.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:04:39 -0400, Mike Marlow
wrote:

krw wrote:


Or it could be a latent defect that got through test in the first
place and will again every time they do the same tests. I wouldn't
worry too much about it for tools but I'd never buy any refurb
electronics.


I buy refurb electronics all of the time, and have for a lot of years.
Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought. Often
times the refurb process is to simply replace the offending part with
brand new and make it available. Hardly any different from buying brand
new. Generally speaking they also upgrade any parts that have been
superseded by revisions or updates as well.

I've had trouble with refurb electronics. Really screwy problems.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

My wife has a Lenovo Yoga 3. The construction is impressive, though
it's a little slow. When I replace this tablet, I'll probably buy a
Yoga 900, or whatever replaces it.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:04:39 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

I buy refurb electronics all of the time, and have for a lot of years.
Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought. Often
times the refurb process is to simply replace the offending part with
brand new and make it available.

I haven't bought a new computer since I retired. We've got 4 at
present. One of them develops problems about once a year. I go down to
our local recycler and pick up a refurbished one, usually faster and with
more memory, for $100 or so.

I've even had good luck with garage sale ones :-).

4 years is a pretty good lifespan - even if a new one would last longer,
which is not a given, it'd be obsolete by then.

As best I can remember, I've had one refurbished one fail a week after I
got it. It was replaced promptly. I had one from a garage sale fail,
but I only paid $25 for it and I got some usable DIMMs and a good hard
drive out of it.

But I do frequent backups so I never lose much, if anything, when one of
the computers dies. If it was a business, I wouldn't trust anything but
a new computer from a company like HP and I'd be sure to use RAID disks
on it and do daily backups.


--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 15:58:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 1:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2016-05-19, Mike Marlow wrote:

Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought.

Lucky you!

I've had Century-Link replace my DLS/wifi modem 3 times. The first
two shipped to me were refurbs, neither of which solved the problem.

**NOTE: Century-Link will ship nothing BUT refurbs. NO new modems
shipped to customers**

The third was also a refurb, which the C-L tech brought to my house.
He tried to tell me, "that's the way it is, sometimes". I told him I
was having none of it. I wanted it working right!

He finally relented and said we could try one more thing, but he'd hafta
go to the shop. Back in about 15 mins, he brought a BRAND NEW modem.
Same model as the previous three, but not a refurb. It worked!!
Problem solved. End of story. (which is true)

What were you saying about refurbs?


Guess there's always the other side of the story to every story. Sucks
that your experience was what it was, but I've not had that kind of
experience with refurbs. I guess you'd have to question their refurb
process, huh?


I returned a "unit" to Comcast and all returns go into a pile of other
"Units". I suspect they all get labeled as refurbished and sent back
out with the installer when they sign up a new customer. The installer
then learns whether it was a good unit or bad unit that was turned in.

Yeah they certainly do not want to pay someone to test them and make
sure they work right. Quality Control buy the customer works real
cheap when you have a monopoly. Even when you do not too.

On 5/19/2016 7:34 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

My wife has a Lenovo Yoga 3. The construction is impressive, though
it's a little slow. When I replace this tablet, I'll probably buy a
Yoga 900, or whatever replaces it.


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP loads
it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage it and
it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as it's
not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without issues.
Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like assholes.
Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a real issue.

--
Jeff

On Thu, 19 May 2016 19:34:43 -0400, krw wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

My wife has a Lenovo Yoga 3. The construction is impressive, though
it's a little slow. When I replace this tablet, I'll probably buy a
Yoga 900, or whatever replaces it.
Pretty hard to beat Lenovo stuff

On Thu, 19 May 2016 22:32:06 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 7:34 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

My wife has a Lenovo Yoga 3. The construction is impressive, though
it's a little slow. When I replace this tablet, I'll probably buy a
Yoga 900, or whatever replaces it.


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP loads
it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage it and
it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as it's
not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without issues.
Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like assholes.
Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a real issue.
The "proffessional" grade Lenovo T Pad with i5 and 8 or moer Gb RAM
is a FAST and reliable machine

I'd be hard pressed to take an HP if it was free. (actually I have one
I got free, and I wopudn't want another)

On 5/19/2016 7:55 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:04:39 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

I buy refurb electronics all of the time, and have for a lot of years.
Never had a single problem with any of the stuff I've bought. Often
times the refurb process is to simply replace the offending part with
brand new and make it available.

I haven't bought a new computer since I retired. We've got 4 at
present. One of them develops problems about once a year. I go down to
our local recycler and pick up a refurbished one, usually faster and with
more memory, for $100 or so.

I've even had good luck with garage sale ones :-).

4 years is a pretty good lifespan - even if a new one would last longer,
which is not a given, it'd be obsolete by then.

As best I can remember, I've had one refurbished one fail a week after I
got it. It was replaced promptly. I had one from a garage sale fail,
but I only paid $25 for it and I got some usable DIMMs and a good hard
drive out of it.

But I do frequent backups so I never lose much, if anything, when one of
the computers dies. If it was a business, I wouldn't trust anything but
a new computer from a company like HP and I'd be sure to use RAID disks
on it and do daily backups.



HP's are not like they were a while back.
Our Gen 9's started rebooting.. Turns out it's a feature.
Except our customers were not happy about the new feature.. Neither were
we. We had serious issues with Gen 9's... systems that failed
miserably, machines that would reset the date every few minutes.
Required a new driver... WHAT!! a driver for the date?? Yep HP is driver
happy.
We moved to CISCO's... looks like they don't QA their machines. Every
machine failed, and required replacement parts .. of course you buy new,
but the parts are refurbs. And many of them failed. (not a knock on
refurbs since I have done well with refurbs).

Now we are moving on to Lenovo servers, and we'll see how they go.

One of my customers decided to host with Dell in Dell's data center. So
it's all Dell. It's turning out the numbers from them are slower than
equiv equipment elsewhere. Real slow. So I'm not impressed with them,and
they have been working on it. Their i/o is so slow, since we can't see
what they've done I can't tell if its config or machines. The SAN is
brand new, and we are the only ones on it.

And that's why it's getting harder to figure out who's king right now.

But there is a lot to be unimpressed about.

--
Jeff

On 5/19/2016 10:50 PM, wrote:

I'd be hard pressed to take an HP if it was free. (actually I have one
I got free, and I wouldn't want another)


HP has such a great reputation for many years they are still able to
trade on it and now sell cheap junk.

OTOH, one Carley becomes President we will get HP computers government
issued.

woodchucker wrote in
:


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP
loads it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage
it and it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as
it's not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without
issues. Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like
assholes. Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a
real issue.


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

woodchucker wrote in
:


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP
loads it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage
it and it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as
it's not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without
issues. Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like
assholes. Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a
real issue.


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.

wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

Puckdropper

On 20 May 2016 19:01:20 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

Puckdropper
Replace with another Lenovo - but I've had Acer and Toshibas with the
swizzle stick, as well as my firs laptop - a 3 letter name I can't
remember at the moment.

On 20 May 2016 19:01:20 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

Puckdropper

The crappy HP Elitebook, some NEC and Samsung, Fujitsu, some Del
Latitude, some Toshiba and soime Acer use a "track stick" type device
in the center of the keyboard.

My first laptop - an AST had the track-stick interface as well.

On 2016-05-20 3:01 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.

--
Froz....

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Fri, 20 May 2016 16:00:23 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-05-20 3:01 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.
Good wireless mice are good for over a month on a battery

On 5/20/2016 7:06 PM, wrote:

Good wireless mice are good for over a month on a battery

I use Logitech's by choice and they are routinely good for over a year,
and the newer one (M705) has an expected 3 year expected.

Only time will tell ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

woodchucker wrote in
:


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP
loads it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage
it and it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as
it's not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without
issues. Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like
assholes. Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a
real issue.


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Don't know about best but it's a *hell* of a lot better than the pad.
BTW, my work Dell has a track stick.

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

The old buckling spring keyboard puts everything else to shame. I
used one at work for over fifteen years. I think the one I have here
is about that old, too.

On Fri, 20 May 2016 16:00:23 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-05-20 3:01 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:96hujb12m53ajaen6su1t44514jqbacdp5@
4ax.com:

On 20 May 2016 04:20:24 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper
There are other manufactureres that use a trackpoint typee device -
but none that work as well and as consistently as the Lenovo ThinkPad
version.


Do any names come to mind? I don't know what I'd do if I had to go back
to that tortorous (sp?) touchpad. I'm just keeping my eyes open for when
this machine needs replaced.

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.

I have Bluetooth mice for all of my computers. The little portable
mouse I have for my laptop and tablet is OK, as long as I'm working at
a desk. It doesn't work on soft surfaces (the buttons are on the
bottom).

wrote in
:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 15:09:18 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

I am not a fan of many of the dewally stuff. Some are good, many
lately have me wondering what happened to them. To me they are
becoming consumer grade.

That was inevitable when B&D took them over.
Used to be B&B made decent pro tools too - but hat is decades ago.

I don't know that it was inevitable - B&D has owned DeWalt for
eons - but since B&D has chosen to make DeWalt their main brand
in Home Depot and Lowes maybe 15 years ago, they have definately
moved more to the consumer side of the scale.

I am reminded that a long time ago, like early 90s, there was an
ex-B&D engineer in the group. He said B&D tools were designed
for 9 hours lifetime - because the average homeowner used the
tool for 10 or 15 minutes at a time, 4 or 5 times a year, and a
9 hour life was plenty for that market.

I don't think DeWalt tools are quite to that point.

John

On Sat, 21 May 2016 03:44:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 15:09:18 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

I am not a fan of many of the dewally stuff. Some are good, many
lately have me wondering what happened to them. To me they are
becoming consumer grade.

That was inevitable when B&D took them over.
Used to be B&B made decent pro tools too - but hat is decades ago.

I don't know that it was inevitable - B&D has owned DeWalt for
eons - but since B&D has chosen to make DeWalt their main brand
in Home Depot and Lowes maybe 15 years ago, they have definately
moved more to the consumer side of the scale.

B&D took over DeWalt in 1960 - earlier than I had thought - and moved
all power tool production off-shore about 2002. In 1992 B&D started
rebranding all their "pro quality" tools to DeWalt. It was about this
time we saw the deWalt line starting downhill. In 2004 they bought
PorterCable.

I am reminded that a long time ago, like early 90s, there was an
ex-B&D engineer in the group. He said B&D tools were designed
for 9 hours lifetime - because the average homeowner used the
tool for 10 or 15 minutes at a time, 4 or 5 times a year, and a
9 hour life was plenty for that market.

I don't think DeWalt tools are quite to that point.

John
yet.

FrozenNorth wrote in
:

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.


I used to carry a wired mouse with me. I have several old IBM (fantastic
quality) mice, and used a PS/2 to USB adapter with them. (It has to be an
"active" or "smart" adapter and not just a wired through like some
switchable mouses included.) Once I got the trackpoint, I quit carrying
and using the mouse.

Puckdropper

wrote in
:


The crappy HP Elitebook, some NEC and Samsung, Fujitsu, some Del
Latitude, some Toshiba and soime Acer use a "track stick" type device
in the center of the keyboard.

My first laptop - an AST had the track-stick interface as well.

Thanks, good to see they're out there. I want to evangelize these things
when I can, other than the learning curve (which is really quite short)
they're better in every way than the trackpads. Plus, my mouse cursor
doesn't go flying and randomly click on things as I type.

I was playing with Linux on an iBook and the cursor went flying as I was
typing. Annoying.

Btw, has anyone got experience with Linux on the PowerPC processor? I'm
running MintPPC, based on Debian. Trouble is, I can't build anything
because of an error I can't find any information on. Yeah, I know this
is kinda like smoothing with an ax: Possible and even sometimes does
pretty good but just not very common. Oh well, just thought I'd toss it
out...

Puckdropper

.

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.


Good wireless mice are good for over a month on a battery


Actually a good mouse and or in my case a good track ball, Logitech M570,
the battery lasts well over a year.. Probably closer to 2 years.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 May 2016 22:32:06 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 7:34 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:50:28 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/19/2016 12:18 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Your anecdote condemns century link[*], not refurbs in general.

Exactly ...

Although not what it was even five years ago, and having built my own
computers for years, and repairing my laptops when needed, I don't mind
taking a chance on a Dell "Certified Refurbished" from their Outlet
store, at a considerable saving and with the same warranty as new.

I will say that most all laptop construction these days pretty much
sucks, and Dell seems to be leading the pack in that regard.

My wife has a Lenovo Yoga 3. The construction is impressive, though
it's a little slow. When I replace this tablet, I'll probably buy a
Yoga 900, or whatever replaces it.


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP loads
it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage it and
it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as it's
not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without issues.
Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like assholes.
Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a real issue.
The "proffessional" grade Lenovo T Pad with i5 and 8 or moer Gb RAM
is a FAST and reliable machine

I'd be hard pressed to take an HP if it was free. (actually I have one
I got free, and I wopudn't want another)

I used to feel that way, but my company-issue machine is an HP that is
actually quite nice.

In article om,
Puckdropper says...

woodchucker wrote in
:


I have always found the IBM thinkpads to be slower, than others, and
Lenovo too.

My company gave me new HP laptop (2 years ago), it is the pits. HP
loads it with a bunch of junk that actually kills the machine, reimage
it and it's better, but still sucks.

My home laptop is an Asus, which I consider to be the better consumer
grade right now. It has an I5 and beats out my I7 HP.

I have been looking for a new laptop for work. I haven't decided as
it's not that easy to find something really fast, and solid, without
issues. Each one seems to have a weakness. And opinions are like
assholes. Sometimes its the idiot behind the keyboard, others it's a
real issue.


Trackpoint. Stupidly only available on Thinkpad. Best. Mousing.
Experience. Ever. Ever!

Some HP Elitebook models have a Trackpoint, or a reasonable facsimile
therof.

Oh, and the keyboard isn't bad either. I remapped the two keys by the
arrow keys, so can use them for Page Up and Page Down or use the
originals above Backspace. Perhaps the most important keys for reading
long online documents.

Puckdropper

On Sat, 21 May 2016 08:00:57 -0500, Leon wrote:

.

I just use an external USB wired mouse, I hate the trackpad too.
Problem is around here anyway most external mice are going wireless in
terms of general availability, they eat batteries for lunch.


Good wireless mice are good for over a month on a battery


Actually a good mouse and or in my case a good track ball, Logitech M570,
the battery lasts well over a year.. Probably closer to 2 years.
Depends how much it is used - nbut yes, a month is a very short time.
If a user is mousing heavily 8 hours a day, not too many will last a
year. At one customer's office they run rechargweable AAA batteries in
the mice - with 2 sets on the charger circulatinf every couple of
months.