Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.

Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.

YMMV ...

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in :

On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]

Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...

--
-Mike-

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.

Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the
workman). We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding?
Sander? Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

1. Hand sand the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. The goal is
twofold: 1, accomplish some but not all feathering and 2, primarily, to
renew the weathered surface of the exposed wood.

2. Get a tube of fairing/body purtty at Napa or other similar. You could
use Bondo but the putty is easier to work with and MUCH easier to sand. It
is basically talc and lacquer so if you have the ingredients you can make
your own.

3. Apply the putty with one of those credit card size, flexible plastic
spatulas used for bondo. The goal is to fill low areas. When dry, hand sand
the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. Repeat if necessar.

4. Prime and paint.

BTW, the paint will probably eventually crack again at the joints

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 3:00:57 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the
workman). We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding?
Sander? Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

1. Hand sand the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. The goal is
twofold: 1, accomplish some but not all feathering and 2, primarily, to
renew the weathered surface of the exposed wood.

2. Get a tube of fairing/body purtty at Napa or other similar. You could
use Bondo but the putty is easier to work with and MUCH easier to sand. It
is basically talc and lacquer so if you have the ingredients you can make
your own.

3. Apply the putty with one of those credit card size, flexible plastic
spatulas used for bondo.

I save my hotel card keys for things like spreading bondo, mixing small
batches of epoxy (JB Weld, etc.), even shims in some cases.

....snip...

On 5/16/2016 10:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.

Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.

YMMV ...


Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.

On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:

On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
what you suggested.

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

wrote:

Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.


Even better would be to sand the bad areas down to feather edges, then
prime the bare wood to build up a primer layer, which may take a couple
of coats of primer. Then sand this primer area down to flat with the
existing paint, and finish paint. Just feathering out the damaged area
will most likely result in the repair showing.

--
-Mike-

On 5/16/2016 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:

Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.

Yep, that's a good one, and there are quite a few other different
products, but I use the various bondo products for a good reason:

When you do it for a living like we do, instead of linking to videos on
the internet like ol mr tuppence up there, I like the fact that it would
be a rare day that you couldn't grab a can Bondo products at the closest
Lowe's or Home Depot when you need it ...

_right now_ ... not easy to do that with most other products.

On that note, it ain't like I don't know how to ****ing restore doors:

Besides the new wood added, Bondo was used to fill all the old holes and
dings:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...?noredirect=1#

Now, mr tuppence, show us your's ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 16 May 2016 16:11:37 -0400, Mike Marlow
wrote:

wrote:

Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.


Even better would be to sand the bad areas down to feather edges, then
prime the bare wood to build up a primer layer, which may take a couple
of coats of primer. Then sand this primer area down to flat with the
existing paint, and finish paint. Just feathering out the damaged area
will most likely result in the repair showing.
My experience is feathering paint to bare wood generally doesn.t work
too well. Prime the wood, - several coats if necessary, then feather
the repair - then paint.

This way you do not have a "raw" paint edge to work with - the paint
is always "sealead" to the wood when you are sanding and painting.so
the edges won't lift, cut, or curl.

On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:31:22 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/16/2016 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:

Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.

Yep, that's a good one, and there are quite a few other different
products, but I use the various bondo products for a good reason:

When you do it for a living like we do, instead of linking to videos on
the internet like ol mr tuppence up there, I like the fact that it would
be a rare day that you couldn't grab a can Bondo products at the closest
Lowe's or Home Depot when you need it ...

_right now_ ... not easy to do that with most other products.

On that note, it ain't like I don't know how to ****ing restore doors:

Besides the new wood added, Bondo was used to fill all the old holes and
dings:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...?noredirect=1#

Now, mr tuppence, show us your's ...


But the OP just said the paint came off at the joint. IF that's all
that happened there is not necessarily ant wood repair (and certainly
no replacement) to do. When panels move in mullions, depending how the
door was made and paintes the paint cracks from expansion withouit any
further damage.

On 5/16/2016 4:09 PM, wrote:

But the OP just said the paint came off at the joint.

OP indicated there were "low spots" and asked about "filling" them ...
thus the very brief comment about what my paint contractors do in
similar situations.

IF that's all
that happened there is not necessarily ant wood repair (and certainly
no replacement) to do. When panels move in mullions, depending how the
door was made and paintes the paint cracks from expansion withouit any
further damage.

Did you miss the snide remarks and video I was more or less addressing
with that admittedly oblique reply, ignoring them, or did it just go
over your heard?

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:34:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/16/2016 10:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.

Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.

YMMV ...


Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.

Mixes with water no nasty fumes.

+2

Leon wrote:

Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.

You can save some money by buying a bag of setting dry wall compound. It is
gypsum - like Rock Hard - too.

On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:40:24 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:

On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:43:17 PM UTC-5, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]

Moron.

I wouldn't want to guess just how stupid you could be as that well probably has no bottom. But how you could compare filling a few cracks and low spots to someone that attempted to literally replace entire rotted areas and rebuild rotted boards is beyond me.

So you found a video by some other nitwit (no doubt of your same intellectual caliber) that had no idea what he was looking at and decided to compare it to a dissimilar situation. The Bondo was not only the wrong stuff, but it had no reinforcement nor was it anchored properly.

Idiot.

Anyway... Greg when I try to read the whole post and match the repair to the capability of the repair guy. You have a some good thoughts, so this is only my personal way of handling the repairs you are talking about.

Sand the whole door to make sure there is no other loose paint, no scale, no damage you didn't see (if it cracks where you are describing, there is movement in the joints so what you see won't be all of it until you have finished the prep)and determine if there needs to be actual repair work instead of just fill and paint.

The danger of putting new paint over old paint is that the paint holds well enough to hang onto the surface, but the new paint can loosen the previous coats, even if it is oil based.

That's why I power wash the exterior surfaces, then prep. If the paint is going to come off it will come off when sprayed. Then sand. Then examine the damage.

So for an exterior wood door (I am keeping in mind that you are talking about an handyman doing these repairs) I wash and sand, and if there are repairs needed I do them at that time. If the rails and stiles have separated, then I scrape out the rotten or soft wood on the joints, fill them with wood glue (I usually open them a bit more) and clamp. Then I use an 7" gutter screw (or something similar from Fastenal) driven at a 45 degree angle from the stile into the rail. Try to find a screw that is threaded the entire length if you can. These aren't, but work fine.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_122295-205-3...d=3284360&Ntt=

If I find the screws with a head less than 1/2" diameter, I use a washer, too. Counter sink the head of the screw, and fill with acrylic caulk after the screw is in place. Do both sides and as well as the top and bottom of the door. I like gutter screws because they come with some kind of epoxy based powder coat on them so they won't rust over the long haul.

Now the door is more stabilized. BTW, most doors fail because of wood movement, and that is usually caused by the painters not painting the door top and bottom. They wick water and start to fail immediately due to the absorption of water causing swelling/movement.

Rock Hard is great for filling holes, some deep scratches, leveling out a surface, etc. It is not good for small cracks as it needs to have more mass to hold together than you can get with a small crack. I usually do a two step process on a door that I am picturing as you described.

Fill all the holes and dents with Rock Hard. I use an 1/8" to 1/4" bit to drill into the center of the dents and holes to give the Rock Hard better bite. With a bunch of holes in a damaged area, you can lay that stuff on pretty thick and sand it smooth. Be aware that Rock Hard has almost not weather resistance; if you start the job using that product plan on working it to finish. You can also get it pretty thin too, (think feathered edges) as long as you paint as soon as possible.

For cracks along the joints I use a good acrylic caulk. For cracks in faces, if they are fine cracks I use the same thing. I apply it as close as possible with a tool, then smooth it a bit with a wet paper towel.

I use caulk because it penetrates the rough surface of the joints and seals them against further deterioration. As noted above, most likely these cracks will come back, but if the raw edges are sealed up with caulk it will slow down the process quite a bit. I use caulk on the joinery because doors always flex at the joints. Maybe not a lot, but always, and with all that I have repaired that is almost always "the scene of the crime". Rock Hard will break apart after a while due to this flexing and it offers no protection to the surface it is attached to. It isn't made to do that; it is a filler.

Prime and paint!

Now... if the handyman of choice can't do that, skip the repairs, and apply Rock Hard and caulk, then paint.

Robert

wrote in :

Now... if the handyman of choice can't do that, skip the repairs, and apply Rock
Hard and caulk, then paint.

Nice essay, Dink. Be sure and thank Karla for giving you the opportunity to flap
your tiny knowledge-penis in front of the class. Last I saw she was hiding under
Leon's skirt. (BSEG)

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:40:24 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:

On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?


Perhaps for the same reason TB III claims to be water proof.

J. Clarke wrote:

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer
that what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
used in Bondo.

The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't respond
to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.

Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built with
plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of which were
adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I built eleven years
ago in that manner; it is still good as gold. Numerous commercial boats
were built in the same manner; the Newport 40 ketch was one.

Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy would have
done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building it up with
plywood.

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.

Absolutely true.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
used in Bondo.

Great post. All true; Bondo has its place, although not literally as a sculpting material as seen in the video. I have seen it used extensively as a filler before painting where it worked well. But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.

Robert

On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
really designed for wood.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer
that what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
used in Bondo.

The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't respond
to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.

Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built with
plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of which were
adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I built eleven years
ago in that manner; it is still good as gold. Numerous commercial boats
were built in the same manner; the Newport 40 ketch was one.

Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy would have
done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building it up with
plywood.




You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

On Tue, 17 May 2016 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.

Absolutely true.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
used in Bondo.

Great post. All true; Bondo has its place, although not literally as a sculpting material as seen in the video. I have seen it used extensively as a filler before painting where it worked well. But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.

Robert
Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

On 5/17/2016 9:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail.

Absolutely, as will most any product. If something requires a patch, it
has arguably started down that road.

The ultimate, usually most desirable remedy is replacement with new.

The question: do you want to spend $X to patch something you can replace
for $X +/-; knowing that any "patch" will likely require some future
maintenance regardless of the product used to patch?

Recently finished an interior remodel. Previous inhabitant had been
confined to a wheel chair. There was not a door jamb in the house that
was not scarred, scraped, dinged and gouged by being rammed repeatedly
with a wheelchair.

Nothing structural, all cosmetic ... just like the OP's post in this
thread, before a trolling idiot introduced a rabbit trail, which we all
followed like sheeple.

The client originally wanted to replace all door jambs, but given the
replacement cost (demo, cost of material, trim out labor, prime and
paint); versus patching options; the client decided to patch.

The painter, as I knew he would, wanted to use Bondo for the patching.

I was fine with that for this job, knowing from past experience that its
ubiquitous availability, price, and the time involved from application
to ready-to-paint, would give the client the bang for the buck he was
looking for in his particular situation.

And, also confident in knowing that this particular painter's success is
due in large part to his believe that preparation is the key to an
excellent patch/paint job, often in spite of the product being used.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:

But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.

Robert


Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of preparation is a great deal of the problem in the video.

What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some time, but they break down eventually.

In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to hold a sealer and retain elasticity.

In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and its fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a superior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.

You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.

Robert

On Tue, 17 May 2016 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:

But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.

Robert


Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of preparation is a great deal of the problem in the video.

What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some time, but they break down eventually.

In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to hold a sealer and retain elasticity.

In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and its fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a superior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.

You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.

Just tacking on

H2O is often referred to as the universal solvent.

Just about anything will dissolve into water with time, now the fact
is that it can take eons for some materials to dissolve at normal
temps. But on geological time frames it is.

On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, wrote:
Snip\





You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.

On 5/17/2016 11:41 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
really designed for wood.


That is like saying that Honda's are not designed to keep the driver dry
in a rain storm since they originally built motorcycles.

wrote:

Robert

Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last
longer that what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use
Abatron."

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear
that it's really a bad example of surface prep.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well
for smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It
fails because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the
Bondo. The epoxy material material they promote will do the same
thing, just slower; it is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond
than does the polyester resin used in Bondo.

The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't
respond to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.

Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
40 ketch was one.

Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy
would have done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building
it up with plywood.




You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:

But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.

Robert


Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of preparation is a great deal of the problem in the video.

What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some time, but they break down eventually.

In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to hold a sealer and retain elasticity.

In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and its fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a superior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.

You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.

Robert
And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.

Just like using polyester body filler on a car without sealing the
repair welds - or worse yet using it to fill rustouts. It won't last -
period. Seal it with an epoxy based fiberglass patch and it will last
almost forever. Polyester resin and fibergkass is a lot better than
that talc filled body-filler crap, but even that breaks down.(and
sometimes pretty quickly)

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, wrote:
Snip\


You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.


Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!

Puckdropper

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 5:19:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.

If you are asking me, you are asking the wrong guy. I was replying to this:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

It was his information. I have read enough on the subject of polyester resins (not the topic at hand, BTW) to not speak without practical, hands on experience.

Robert

On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, wrote:
Snip\





You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
the Hurricanes hit - - -

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:

Robert

Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.

45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.