On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.

Robert

And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.

Sigh... Note that NOWHERE in any post that I have made in this thread did I advocate, advise, suggest, or imply that using resin to seal a crack in the joinery of a door was a viable solution. You are arguing with yourself at this point.

Robert

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:21:21 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last
longer that what you suggested.

The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use
Abatron."

And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear
that it's really a bad example of surface prep.

That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well
for smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It
fails because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the
Bondo. The epoxy material material they promote will do the same
thing, just slower; it is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond
than does the polyester resin used in Bondo.

The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't
respond to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.

Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
40 ketch was one.

Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy
would have done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building
it up with plywood.




You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.

But it is now.

On Tue, 17 May 2016 21:44:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.

Robert

And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.

Sigh... Note that NOWHERE in any post that I have made in this thread did I advocate, advise, suggest, or imply that using resin to seal a crack in the joinery of a door was a viable solution. You are arguing with yourself at this point.

Robert
Yet that was where the OPs problem started. The paint cracked where 2
pieces of wood met, and the paint chipped off back from the crack.

No indication from the OP that there was any wood damage. A bit of
high quality caulk in the seam would work much better than Bondo for
his repair. It is flexible.

wrote in news:uisnjbt20m1tpbabc4k0h085j8u6v37bk0@
4ax.com:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.

Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
the Hurricanes hit - - -

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

John

wrote:
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 5:19:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other -
component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated
in the
resin.

If you are asking me, you are asking the wrong guy. I was replying to
this:

On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

It was his information. I have read enough on the subject of
polyester resins (not the topic at hand, BTW) to not speak without
practical, hands on experience.

Robert

No, not you, sorry, it was meant for

wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:

Robert

Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other -
component is about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is
encapsulated in the resin.

45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.

Your experience with polyester resin differs with mine. It also differs
with that of numerous companies that use it for commercial water proofing.
It also differs with that of the manufacturers who say it is water proof.

As to Bondo, it's water absorption is in the order of 0.3%. Water resistant
enough for me, especially after painting

"dadiOH" wrote in :

On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
40 ketch was one.

Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.

Well, to be accurate epoxy wasn't all that common back in the
50's and 60's when polyester was widely used, before the problems
with blistering became widely recognized.

If you built a boat with polyester in this century you made a
mistake (albeit without bad consequences, apparently). Epoxy
has been the norm since the 80's; when I started boatbuilding
in the 90's it was accepted that epoxy was the only way to go.
(the arguement then became whether to use West System, System
Three, or Mas epoxy).

John

On 5/16/2016 11:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.

Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.

YMMV ...

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Thanks to all.

On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.

NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
the space-time continuum.

Say isn't so ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.

NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
the space-time continuum.

Say isn't so ...


Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
talking about 'cause he posted a link...)

--
-Mike-

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 12:10:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:

No indication from the OP that there was any wood damage. A bit of
high quality caulk in the seam would work much better than Bondo for
his repair. It is flexible.

I am beginning to think you don't read any of the posts. It's OK, I participate in another forum where most of the members read the first sentence, sometimes two, and that's all they read.

I like your "new" thoughts, although... they sure sound familiar.

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 11:41:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:

For cracks along the joints I use a good acrylic caulk. For cracks in faces, if they are fine cracks I use the same thing. I apply it as close as possible with a tool, then smooth it a bit with a wet paper towel.

I use caulk because it penetrates the rough surface of the joints and seals them against further deterioration. As noted above, most likely these cracks will come back, but if the raw edges are sealed up with caulk it will slow down the process quite a bit. I use caulk on the joinery because doors always flex at the joints. Maybe not a lot, but always, and with all that I have repaired that is almost always "the scene of the crime". Rock Hard will break apart after a while due to this flexing and it offers no protection to the surface it is attached to. It isn't made to do that; it is a filler.

That was from two days ago.

Robert

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 11:08:38 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:

Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
talking about 'cause he posted a link...)

--
-Mike-

I am not sure I would trust a post from Karl at this point either unless he attaches a link to an unrelated video uploaded by an idiot shill to further their own agenda. I just wouldn't make sense.

Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!

;^)

Robert

On 5/18/2016 12:47 PM, wrote:
Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!

What's a "scone"??

Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 2:26:38 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2016 12:47 PM, wrote:
Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!

What's a "scone"??

Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?


Here you go...

Savoury (Tomato Cajun) Scone

https://mybakingcottage.wordpress.co...o-cajun-scone/

On 5/18/2016 1:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

What's a "scone"??

Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?


Here you go...

Savoury (Tomato Cajun) Scone

https://mybakingcottage.wordpress.co...o-cajun-scone/

Merci, mon ami ...

Thought I was the only one who spread little coonies to England.

"Cajun powder"??

Don't think the "d", belongs, cher. lol


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 18 May 2016 02:30:28 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, wrote:
Snip\


You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.


Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!

Puckdropper

They are selling it by the gallon now, stock up!

On Wed, 18 May 2016 11:49:31 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 5/16/2016 11:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Not exactly woodworking, but ...

Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.

We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.

After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?

Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.

Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.

YMMV ...

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Thanks to all.
When I replaced the wooden front door of my house I replaced it with
a fiberglass door.. Cost a bit more, but I should never have to
replace it again in my lifetime.

I worked for 2 different window and door companies over the years and
saw enough trouble with exterior wood panel doors to convince me never
to buy anoyher one.

Markem wrote in
:

On 18 May 2016 02:30:28 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, wrote:
Snip\


You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.


Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!

Puckdropper

They are selling it by the gallon now, stock up!


Right, because you never know when you'll want to seal up a screen door
on a submarine!

Puckdropper

On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:


YMMV ...

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Thanks to all.


LOL. The easy way out may be to build a whole new door and paint it. ;~)

On 5/18/2016 11:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.

Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.

NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
the space-time continuum.

Say isn't so ...


Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
talking about 'cause he posted a link...)



What is "giggle groups"? ;~)

Someone didn't clean the wood down to solid wood.
They covered over the weathered cracking window and
painted over. The hot sun simply steamed moisture
from behind and did the 2-step on the fix.

Epoxy resin is used as a wood preservative. But the
wood is cleaned up and bad taken off then it is poured on.

That was like putting on a bandage on a wet wound and the
glue doesn't stick.

Martin

On 5/17/2016 5:09 PM, Leon wrote:
On 5/17/2016 11:41 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:



Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]


Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...


Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.

His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.

Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
really designed for wood.


That is like saying that Honda's are not designed to keep the driver dry
in a rain storm since they originally built motorcycles.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:

Robert

Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.

45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.

So your experience is that water leaks through your body repairs? Glad
I don't get my car fixed at _your_ shop.

In article ,
says...

wrote in news:uisnjbt20m1tpbabc4k0h085j8u6v37bk0@
4ax.com:

On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.

Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
the Hurricanes hit - - -

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.

On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:58:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:

Robert

Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.

Got a citation?

Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.

45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.

So your experience is that water leaks through your body repairs? Glad
I don't get my car fixed at _your_ shop.

Never leaks though mine. I seal the repair before adding filler..
Generally use fiberglass re-enforced epoxy over any rust repair or
brazed patch and just enough filler to smooth it out because the
fiberglass is hard to fine-finish. Guys who punch holes in the rusty
metal and fill with Bondo WILL have the bondo pop., as will those who
"stitch" in a metal patch and cover with Bondo.

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.

LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
3/8 inch thick).

John

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.

LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
3/8 inch thick).

Can you say "whoosh"?

On Sun, 22 May 2016 03:33:47 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.

LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
3/8 inch thick).

John
Or Jersey Glass

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:47:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2016 03:33:47 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).

Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.

LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
3/8 inch thick).

John
Or Jersey Glass

or Jersey Barriers

Hard to see through, but it sure would protect the occupants of the house. ;-)