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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
OFWW wrote:
I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
An article in a recent issue of Woodshop News states soft maple is now outselling hard. Reasons are as mentioned above...easier on cutting tools and accepts finishes better, especially paint. Mind you, this comes from a guy that recently bought a sheet of 1/4 maple and couldn't tell you if it was hard or soft.
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#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 6:00 AM, BillinGA wrote:
An article in a recent issue of Woodshop News states soft maple is now outselling hard. Reasons are as mentioned above...easier on cutting tools and accepts finishes better, especially paint. Mind you, this comes from a guy that recently bought a sheet of 1/4 maple and couldn't tell you if it was hard or soft. Don't feel lonely. LOL It is very difficult to fell soft from hard on plywood, the outer veneer is not thick enough to provide any resistance to any abrasion of denting. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote:
OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test Frankly, I wouldn't be worrying much about hardness. I'd be more concerned about paintability and I generally use poplar for that. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, wrote: .... IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same as cherry and walnut is about 1000. It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need proper surface prep... -- |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450. So possibly as much as twice as hard. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
OFWW wrote in :
I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. Soft, for several reasons: 1. If you're painting it anyway, there's not much point in paying the extra cost for hard maple. 2. Soft maple takes paint better than hard maple. 3. Soft maple is a *lot* easier to cut and mill than hard maple. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:53:26 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote: OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test Frankly, I wouldn't be worrying much about hardness. I'd be more concerned about paintability and I generally use poplar for that. Well we have oak frames in the house, and they weathered well for 40 years. No discernable nicks, and tough as nails to disassemble. Yes, Paintability is my main concern but Poplar, me, and white paint don't seem to get along to well together. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, wrote: ... IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same as cherry and walnut is about 1000. It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need proper surface prep... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450. So possibly as much as twice as hard. All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and durability? |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the dull side. Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse. That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of an issue. I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things being equal. I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon got on to also. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:
All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and durability? I do. Mine is always soft maple for painting, unless I'm staining/clear coating and looking for some figure. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:22:36 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote: OFWW wrote in : I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. Soft, for several reasons: 1. If you're painting it anyway, there's not much point in paying the extra cost for hard maple. 2. Soft maple takes paint better than hard maple. 3. Soft maple is a *lot* easier to cut and mill than hard maple. Hmmm, Thanks for the insight. Matches up with what every one else is saying, and it is just over a buck a board foot less expensive. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 1:14 AM, OFWW wrote:
I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. Soft maple has more color in it. you will see gray streaks, and brown. hard maple is generally very plain (excluding figure of coarse). the difference is little in one being stronger than the other. Both are pretty hard woods, don't dent easily. my two cents... I'm sure many will say other things. -- Jeff |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450. So possibly as much as twice as hard. All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and durability? Almost with out exception if I am going to paint I use poplar. And it is really soft, 540. From there soft maple. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
Sugar.
On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb wrote: On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, wrote: ... IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same as cherry and walnut is about 1000. It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need proper surface prep... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
.... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so. If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse. I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at less than gold prices... -- |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:56:12 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote: Sugar. I'm laughing, simple answer, on the mark from what I can see. On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb wrote: On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, wrote: ... IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same as cherry and walnut is about 1000. It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need proper surface prep... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the dull side. Thanks to you guys I have new bits, and DADO blade kit. Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse. That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of an issue. I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things being equal. I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon got on to also. What is considered a good price? |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: ... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so. If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse. I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at less than gold prices... Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean? |
#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:05:13 -0500, Swingman wrote:
On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote: All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and durability? I do. Mine is always soft maple for painting, unless I'm staining/clear coating and looking for some figure. Thanks Swingman, I was going to ask you as the bathroom cabinet you did 400 some miles from you was white. |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:35:43 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon wrote: OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard. Soft will also be easier to mill. I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s. Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak? Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450. So possibly as much as twice as hard. All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and durability? Almost with out exception if I am going to paint I use poplar. And it is really soft, 540. From there soft maple. Then soft maple it is. I hate to use really good wood where it cannot be seen, but this seems like a nice compromise. It is hard around here to get clear poplar, without the gray streaks, and that stuff bleeds through the white paint even after it is sealed. I used it for some grandchild stuff. With kid safe paint/sealer. |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:02:24 -0400, woodchucker
wrote: On 4/6/2016 1:14 AM, OFWW wrote: I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets. For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada. I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam. Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of stores around So. Cal. I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have an advantage for glue ups? I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished and rolling, tomorrow. Soft maple has more color in it. you will see gray streaks, and brown. hard maple is generally very plain (excluding figure of coarse). the difference is little in one being stronger than the other. Both are pretty hard woods, don't dent easily. my two cents... I'm sure many will say other things. Hey, It all adds up. I appreciate all the input from everyone. I happen to love maple. Although I am starting to like dark wood more. |
#26
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
OFWW writes:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb wrote: On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: ... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so. If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse. I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at less than gold prices... Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean? When a tree grows on a hillside, stresses can build up in the lumber derived from the tree. Reaction wood is caused by these stresses, which when relieved during milling, will seriously compromise the dimensionally stability of the timber. In other words, it will warp or bow when you rip or resaw it. |
#27
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/7/2016 10:39 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman wrote: On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the dull side. Thanks to you guys I have new bits, and DADO blade kit. Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse. That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of an issue. I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things being equal. I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon got on to also. What is considered a good price? Free! LOL Actually a good price will depend on your location. Prices vary widely depending on your proximity to the source. |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb wrote: On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: ... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so. If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse. I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at less than gold prices... Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean? Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up as the cut is being made. Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron. That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise. A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS. |
#29
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 2016-04-07, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up as the cut is being made. I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info. while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized piece that impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly serious, now. I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from the 50s? I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make finger joints. Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood. nb |
#30
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 04/07/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, wrote: On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote: ... Wife wants white, white. They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you noticed that? Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so. If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse. I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at less than gold prices... Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean? http://agclass.nal.usda.gov/mtwdk.exe?k=wood&l=60&w=321&n=1&s=5&t=2 I was commenting that I've not had any excessive amount of reaction wood in the soft maple I've bought; it's going to be a function of where the material came from and how well it was graded/sorted at the mill. If buying "tree run" or lower grades such as #2 common as I often will for the price as for smaller furniture pieces the net yield makes it _much_ more economical that FAS or even #1 common, the likelihood is higher that they'll put it in the bundle. OTOH, when I bought the current stash of maple, they happened to have a good pricing on it and it is FAS (some as wide as 16" 5/4 stock) and I've yet to come across a piece that has any problem... There's a nice and pretty short explanation on Wikipedia of how it forms and the differences between hardwoods and softwoods (and here it's the differentiation between angiosperms and gymnosperms, don't let the physical hardness of the wood itself confuse. -- |
#31
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
OFWW wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman wrote: I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon got on to also. What is considered a good price? That depends upon how much you want and what grade. If you want 25 brd.ft. it will cost more than 250 brd.ft. If you want FAS or select it will cost more than #1 common. It also depends upon where you buy it. Buy locally - assuming "locally" isn't near the source - and it will cost more than a place close to the source; buy there and you have to factor in freight. Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida. It also depends upon the vendor. One place in NC has soft maple for $2.60, another at $3.65. BTW, IMO is is folly to buy FAS/Select in many cases. Judicicious cutting of #1 common can result in considerable savings. For little stuff like face frames - particularly when it will be painted - #1 common is appropriate. IMO |
#32
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
notbob wrote in
: On 2016-04-07, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up as the cut is being made. I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info. while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized piece that impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly serious, now. I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from the 50s? I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make finger joints. Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood. nb It's ok to set the blade lowish, I believe the current thinking is that having the gullet just clear the wood is the best compromise between not exposing too much blade and trying to get the blade moving down through most of the cut. Your fence needs to be parallel to the blade. This will reduce the likelihood of a piece applying pressure against the blade, which is one of the first ingredients in a kickback recipe. Do not trap the workpiece between the blade and fence. If you're taking only a 1/8" off, set the fence so the wide side of the board is against the fence and the small side is cut off. Realize that there are pieces that are just too small to be cut with a power saw of any kind safely. You may have to plan ahead on a project that uses them to make sure the final cut leaves you with an exact dimension piece. Puckdropper |
#33
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
"dadiOH" wrote in :
Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida. Hmmm, I just got 200bf from NC down to the pointy end of Fla, and the shipping was free. 100bf of some kind of mahogany (probably khaya or something African) and 100bf of poplar for about $650 total. Of course, the only reason it was shipped free was I drove up there in the pickup truck...my employer wanted me up there and they pay for me to drive, and don't care if I use the car or the truck. John |
#34
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
notbob wrote in
: R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife would be. As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side). Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas. And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet really gets your attention. John |
#35
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
John McCoy wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in : Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida. Hmmm, I just got 200bf from NC down to the pointy end of Fla, and the shipping was free. 100bf of some kind of mahogany (probably khaya or something African) and 100bf of poplar for about $650 total. Of course, the only reason it was shipped free was I drove up there in the pickup truck...my employer wanted me up there and they pay for me to drive, and don't care if I use the car or the truck. Lucky you. Next time you go pick up another 200bf of Khaya, ribbon stripe (quartered) for me. Play your cards right and I'll toss in supper Was your mahogany about 14' long? |
#36
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 2016-04-07, John McCoy wrote:
I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife would be. As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side). Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas. And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet really gets your attention. No doubt! Thank you fer setting me straight. I realize this is not half a century ago, but I still wondered. Thnx fer educating this geezer neophyte. I know what a feather board is and jes looked up "riving knife". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife Kickback pawls are probably what I thought to be the "guard thingies" I saw on that ancient woodshop safety film. I discovered our HOA has a rusty Craftman tablesaw and equally ancient Craftsman radial saw. Neither has a dado set, so I'll prolly wait fer my buddy, who has all three. nb |
#37
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/7/2016 1:13 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-04-07, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up as the cut is being made. I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info. Today.... ;~) Wait till school lets out, the squirrels will be plenty. while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized piece that impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly serious, now. Well I'm not perfect and capable of making mistakes, unlike many that don't have much to show except their vast knowledge of how it will never happen to them. And eventually they make mistakes.... I do a lot of woodworking, compared to most. I know the risks and do what I can to guard against problems but do this long enough and you either accomplish little or one day you get hurt. Some never get hurt, some never have been in a car wreck. A splitter is not always particle, like when cutting dado's or groves. I was using a push stick but again, something happened and you don't have time to think about that after something goes wrong. I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from the 50s? I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make finger joints. You are going to have to be the judge as to what saw is best for you. My advise is to buy a good as you can afford. And past that get a SawStop. IMHO underpowered saws are more dangerous than those with plenty of hp. I would never consider less than 3hp but those are pricey. Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood. nb |
#38
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/7/2016 6:18 PM, notbob wrote:
Kickback pawls are probably what I thought to be the "guard thingies" I saw on that ancient woodshop safety film. Rarely have used a TS guard since I got rid of my old overhead system, but never fail to use BOTH a push block, and a splitter. The splitter/riving knife is the single most important device for preventing kickback on a through cut there is. In the thousands of shop photos, it would be rare to see a glimpse of my table saw without some type of splitter ... this is one I made out of the old Delta guard that came with the saw ... not quite as effective as a riving knife, but a whole lot better than no splitter: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...67454187233 8 -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On 4/7/2016 4:33 PM, John McCoy wrote:
notbob wrote in : R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife would be. Correct but most guards have a splitter of some sort. And unfortunately most guards are probably more likely to cause injury than not, given enough time and the right circumstances. I will never forget the dufuss on one of the DIY channels, IIRC Brad Stagg on the Ultimate Workshop showing how to cut a dado, WITH THE GUARD IN PLACE. The look on his face when the wood hit the splitter was priceless as was watching him get out of that situation with out mishap. As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side). Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas. And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet really gets your attention. John |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
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ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:26:49 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote: OFWW wrote: On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman wrote: I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon got on to also. What is considered a good price? That depends upon how much you want and what grade. If you want 25 brd.ft. it will cost more than 250 brd.ft. If you want FAS or select it will cost more than #1 common. It also depends upon where you buy it. Buy locally - assuming "locally" isn't near the source - and it will cost more than a place close to the source; buy there and you have to factor in freight. Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida. It also depends upon the vendor. One place in NC has soft maple for $2.60, another at $3.65. BTW, IMO is is folly to buy FAS/Select in many cases. Judicicious cutting of #1 common can result in considerable savings. For little stuff like face frames - particularly when it will be painted - #1 common is appropriate. IMO Your usage of unfamiliar terms means more learning, I see. I was told either 2.14 or 3.14 bd ft for S3S Soft maple and 3.47 for Hard S3S Maple. So when I get back to the store and order I'll firm up those prices and how much I need before I put down the Cash. Today was a bad day, the 2 year old Yellow Lab started throwing up, then puking up everything in her tummy. She went out in the back yard, ate a bunch of grass, drank water and puked up everything shortly after. Within an hour she drank a lot of water and puked it all up. What a mess, ran her to the vet, end result surgery. She had swallowed a rock, fortunately it was smooth. We pick her up tomorrow. I told the surgeon to save me the rock. Paid more for that rock then the ring on my wife's finger. I'm thinking of having it mounted, the rock. |
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