On 8/4/2014 5:05 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/4/2014 4:52 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Puckdropper wrote:

If you get the blade to move independent of the spindle assembly, it
might just loosen things up enough to remove it. A couple ideas
come to mind, but are more or less "go for broke" ideas.

The first is to hit the blade with a hammer out near the end.
Repeated blows in the loosen direction might be enough to free
things up. Chances are, though, the spindle will want move. This
could be dangerous, especially if the mower has been lifted.

NO! You'll screw up the bearings in the quill for sure by doing
this.

Quill? :~)


Some manufacturers refer to the tower assembly that contains the bearings
and that the shaft fits through, as the quill. don't ask me why...]

Lost in translation probably.

Leon wrote:


Mike, do you think he should maybe use an air impact? ;~)

Yes! That's what I meant. It will work off a bolt or a nut without turning
the spindle (or whatever else is involved in the process), and will take it
off. I've done a bunch of these - started out frustrating myself with the
wrong tools and then figured out that the air impact was the right tool. It
works.


--

-Mike-

JAS wrote:


I have a stuck bolt right now holding a lawnmower blade on that
belongs to my neighbor lady, removed two of the blades but the third
one will not budge. I have used an impact wrench but someone had
rounded the bolt before and even tapping a smaller fraction size on
it will not grab good enough. Tried vice grips and pipe wrench--what
next, maybe heat. I am afraid it will break and then the mower will
be toast, it is an old John Deere her husband had before passing
away. Any ideas?
---------------------------------------------
Kroil and lots of patience.

Lew

"JAS" wrote in message ...

I have a stuck bolt right now holding a lawnmower blade on that belongs
to my neighbor lady, removed two of the blades but the third one will
not budge. I have used an impact wrench but someone had rounded the bolt
before and even tapping a smaller fraction size on it will not grab good
enough. Tried vice grips and pipe wrench--what next, maybe heat. I am
afraid it will break and then the mower will be toast, it is an old John
Deere her husband had before passing away. Any ideas?

My gut reaction, after hearing what you tried, is to weld or perhaps braze,
either a nut, or the head end of a bolt, to the mangled bolt and use a
wrench on it. Alternatively, weld a length of black pipe, angle iron, etc.
to the bolt head and use it as the "wrench." In the later case if you cut
out the side of the end of the "wrench" so it fits over the nut you can tack
it on two sides and maybe the top of the damaged bolt head... longer is
better!

John

On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:51:52 -0600, JAS
wrote:

Puckdropper wrote:
JAS wrote in :



Sometimes the best option is to give up. If the blade isn't bent or
otherwise damaged, it may have to be treated as a permanent part of
the mower.

Puckdropper

The blade is worn and chipped on the ends as she said she hit a rock.


If you get the blade to move independent of the spindle assembly, it
might just loosen things up enough to remove it. A couple ideas come to
mind, but are more or less "go for broke" ideas.

The first is to hit the blade with a hammer out near the end. Repeated
blows in the loosen direction might be enough to free things up.
Chances are, though, the spindle will want move. This could be
dangerous, especially if the mower has been lifted.

Another is to attach the blade to a lever. I once used carriage bolts
drilled through a 2x4 to make a rebar bender, and something similar may
work here. The minimum is two carriage bolts, one on either side of the
blade, but a third one with a large washer to clamp the lever to the
blade will probably be easier to use. (I find when working under my
mower the hardest part is keeping the tool in place against gravity.)
This will probably have the same spindle movement problem of the first
idea.

Have you priced out replacement spindles?

Puckdropper

Will try the heat and hitting the blade also==I do have a problem
holding the tools up wile lying under the mower as I have had shoulder
surgery and do not have much strength there. If that dose not work I
will have her take it to a repair shop and get a nut welded on and have
them work on it. I doubt if a replacement spindle is available as it is
a 50's or 60's model.
JAS

I feel your pain -Had shoulder surgery a few years back - it's better
than before the surgery, but still not 100% - gatta watch what I do
and how.
As for getting parts - I had to make a new spindle shaft for my 24"
mower - about the same age. Lathe comes in handy once in a while!!

On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 17:55:44 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

JAS wrote:

Will try the heat and hitting the blade also==I do have a problem
holding the tools up wile lying under the mower as I have had shoulder
surgery and do not have much strength there. If that dose not work I
will have her take it to a repair shop and get a nut welded on and
have them work on it. I doubt if a replacement spindle is available
as it is a 50's or 60's model.
JAS


Better be real careful with that heat. You have seals and bearings in
there. Just put an air impact on it and hold the blade in your hand while
you hit it with the gun. This is getting way more complicated than it needs
to be.

Spindles are very likely to be available - look on the internet. And -
ferchristssake - don't try to do this underneath of the damned deck. Are
you trying to be dumb here? Pull the damned deck out and flip it over. The
way you're heading you're assuring yourself of a complete and dismal
failure. Sheese - just pull the deck and put a damned air gun on it.

--

-Mike-


On mine I was tearing it down to replace the bearings - which were
shot and had worn a deep groove in the shaft.

But definitely a safer and easier job with the deck upside-down on the
work bench!!!

On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 17:52:07 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Puckdropper wrote:

If you get the blade to move independent of the spindle assembly, it
might just loosen things up enough to remove it. A couple ideas come
to mind, but are more or less "go for broke" ideas.

The first is to hit the blade with a hammer out near the end.
Repeated blows in the loosen direction might be enough to free things
up. Chances are, though, the spindle will want move. This could be
dangerous, especially if the mower has been lifted.

NO! You'll screw up the bearings in the quill for sure by doing this.


Another is to attach the blade to a lever. I once used carriage bolts
drilled through a 2x4 to make a rebar bender, and something similar
may work here. The minimum is two carriage bolts, one on either side
of the blade, but a third one with a large washer to clamp the lever
to the blade will probably be easier to use. (I find when working
under my mower the hardest part is keeping the tool in place against
gravity.) This will probably have the same spindle movement problem
of the first idea.

Have you priced out replacement spindles?


An impact gun will remove this nut as simple as pie. Just need a big enough
impact gun - not your basic 18v gun.
He needs to get a decent head on the bolt first if he is going to use
an impact. A "grip-tite" socket will grab a worn bolt head, but will
grenade itself if used on a good impact gun (likely on a rotten impact
too)

On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 16:55:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/4/2014 4:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Puckdropper wrote:
JAS wrote in
:

I have a stuck bolt right now holding a lawnmower blade on that
belongs to my neighbor lady, removed two of the blades but the third
one will not budge. I have used an impact wrench but someone had
rounded the bolt before and even tapping a smaller fraction size on
it will not grab good enough. Tried vice grips and pipe wrench--what
next, maybe heat. I am afraid it will break and then the mower will
be toast, it is an old John Deere her husband had before passing
away. Any ideas?

JAS

Sometimes the best option is to give up. If the blade isn't bent or
otherwise damaged, it may have to be treated as a permanent part of
the mower.



I'm not aware of any mower deck that was manufactured as a permanent part.
But - ya do learn something new every day...



Not was manufactured as a permanent part but "may have to be treated as
a permanent part" If you cant get it off.
One question. Is the spindle boted to the top of the deck or the
bottom? If bolted to the bottom, remove the bulley, unbolt the
assembly from the deck and drop it out - and work on it at the
workbench, or take the spindle and blade to the shop to have the
munged bolt removed.

An impact gun will remove this nut as simple as pie. Just need a big enough
impact gun - not your basic 18v gun.

If you read what I posted, I tried an impact gun [1/2" with 120 psi air]
but the problem is that the bolt head is mangled and the corners rounded
hence the thought of welding a larger nut to it. I raised it with a
cherry picker engine hoist and have a brace under it. I tried to remove
the spindle but the bolts are rusted there also. I am sending her to
tractor mechanic she knows before I end up twisting off the bolts.
Thanks for all advice as I have tried but I have no welder either.
JAS


.... Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.

JAS wrote:
An impact gun will remove this nut as simple as pie. Just need a
big enough impact gun - not your basic 18v gun.

If you read what I posted, I tried an impact gun [1/2" with 120 psi
air] but the problem is that the bolt head is mangled and the corners
rounded hence the thought of welding a larger nut to it. I raised it
with a cherry picker engine hoist and have a brace under it. I tried
to remove the spindle but the bolts are rusted there also. I am
sending her to tractor mechanic she knows before I end up twisting
off the bolts. Thanks for all advice as I have tried but I have no
welder either.
JAS



Touche. I had indeed lost track of that - or perhaps didn't notice it in
the beginning. Sorry about that.


--

-Mike-

wrote in message
...

Heat and then cool with WD40

Heat then quench with garden hose.

I see people recommending to heat to red hot then quench with water or thin
oils, and it makes me cringe a little bit. There are real chances that the
metallurgy of the nut or bolt is going to be significantly changed, and
brittle to the point that it snaps off.

If the goal is to break a nut off, and it is replaceable (not left handed or
something) go for it I guess. I myself would not want to heat up a part
that was going to be used again past straw temperature, which is barely
showing any dull orange at all. If breaking the nut was a reasonable
option, I would just use a mechanical nut buster and be done with it if
impact wrenches and granny helper bars did not do the trick.

By the way, has it been confirmed that the nut that will not come off is not
a left handed nut? If there are three blades, it is most likely that at
least one (the middle blade) is a left handed nut.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 8/4/2014 5:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Mike, do you think he should maybe use an air impact? ;~)

Yes! That's what I meant. It will work off a bolt or a nut without turning
the spindle (or whatever else is involved in the process), and will take it
off. I've done a bunch of these - started out frustrating myself with the
wrong tools and then figured out that the air impact was the right tool. It
works.




I only mentioned it cause you mentioned it a time or two or four or
five. :~) I was yankin your chain.

Leon wrote:
On 8/4/2014 5:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Mike, do you think he should maybe use an air impact? ;~)

Yes! That's what I meant. It will work off a bolt or a nut without
turning the spindle (or whatever else is involved in the process),
and will take it off. I've done a bunch of these - started out
frustrating myself with the wrong tools and then figured out that
the air impact was the right tool. It works.




I only mentioned it cause you mentioned it a time or two or four or
five. :~) I was yankin your chain.

Yeah - sorry about that. I've been putting very little attention into this
hobby of following the newsgroup owing to some intense activity at work, so
I tend to forget what I've already posted - or simply react in the moment,
if you will. Kind of embarassing in a way when it's called to my attention,
I have to admit...

--

-Mike-

On 8/5/2014 8:13 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 8/4/2014 5:27 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Mike, do you think he should maybe use an air impact? ;~)

Yes! That's what I meant. It will work off a bolt or a nut without
turning the spindle (or whatever else is involved in the process),
and will take it off. I've done a bunch of these - started out
frustrating myself with the wrong tools and then figured out that
the air impact was the right tool. It works.




I only mentioned it cause you mentioned it a time or two or four or
five. :~) I was yankin your chain.

Yeah - sorry about that. I've been putting very little attention into this
hobby of following the newsgroup owing to some intense activity at work, so
I tend to forget what I've already posted - or simply react in the moment,
if you will. Kind of embarassing in a way when it's called to my attention,
I have to admit...



I have not been here much either. I was able to take a short bread last
week after finishing a couple of jobs. I just bought mahogany for a
current project and have at least three in line after that.

wrote:
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 16:55:38 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 8/4/2014 4:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Puckdropper wrote:
JAS wrote in
:

I have a stuck bolt right now holding a lawnmower blade on that
belongs to my neighbor lady, removed two of the blades but the third
one will not budge. I have used an impact wrench but someone had
rounded the bolt before and even tapping a smaller fraction size on
it will not grab good enough. Tried vice grips and pipe wrench--what
next, maybe heat. I am afraid it will break and then the mower will
be toast, it is an old John Deere her husband had before passing
away. Any ideas?

JAS

Sometimes the best option is to give up. If the blade isn't bent or
otherwise damaged, it may have to be treated as a permanent part of
the mower.



I'm not aware of any mower deck that was manufactured as a permanent part.
But - ya do learn something new every day...



Not was manufactured as a permanent part but "may have to be treated as
a permanent part" If you cant get it off.
One question. Is the spindle boted to the top of the deck or the
bottom? If bolted to the bottom, remove the bulley, unbolt the
assembly from the deck and drop it out - and work on it at the
workbench, or take the spindle and blade to the shop to have the
munged bolt removed.

Top

On 7/31/2014 8:07 AM, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

At this point, I would say it is irrelevant.

What is apparent is that a screw head thread has managed to usurp the
place of the infamous wRec electrical threads in the amount of bull****
contained therein.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/5/14, 9:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2014 8:07 AM, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is
less likely to strip?

At this point, I would say it is irrelevant.

What is apparent is that a screw head thread has managed to usurp the
place of the infamous wRec electrical threads in the amount of
bull**** contained therein.


Seriously though. With all the friction happening in those threads,
best to avoid using screws anywhere around your dust collector.
Might fu@%!ng 'splode!!!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...

"Michael" wrote in message
...

I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less
likely to strip?

If the overarching concern is stripping out the screw heads maybe the answer
is not to use a screw at all. Pegs, nails, rivets, wedges and glue are not
known to strip... ;~)

-MIKE- wrote:
On 8/5/14, 9:00 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/31/2014 8:07 AM, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is
less likely to strip?

At this point, I would say it is irrelevant.

What is apparent is that a screw head thread has managed to usurp the
place of the infamous wRec electrical threads in the amount of
bull**** contained therein.


Seriously though. With all the friction happening in those threads,
best to avoid using screws anywhere around your dust collector.
Might fu@%!ng 'splode!!!

Not if you wind a ground wire through them and into an 8' ground rod. Make
sure you wind the ground wire in the right direction so that it unwinds as
you back the screw out. Otherwise, the ground wire will stall your drill
motor and result in a fire in your panel as the breaker overheats.

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 5 Aug 2014 07:52:55 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .

Heat and then cool with WD40

Heat then quench with garden hose.

I see people recommending to heat to red hot then quench with water or thin
oils, and it makes me cringe a little bit. There are real chances that the
metallurgy of the nut or bolt is going to be significantly changed, and
brittle to the point that it snaps off.

If the goal is to break a nut off, and it is replaceable (not left handed or
something) go for it I guess. I myself would not want to heat up a part
that was going to be used again past straw temperature, which is barely
showing any dull orange at all. If breaking the nut was a reasonable
option, I would just use a mechanical nut buster and be done with it if
impact wrenches and granny helper bars did not do the trick.

By the way, has it been confirmed that the nut that will not come off is not
a left handed nut? If there are three blades, it is most likely that at
least one (the middle blade) is a left handed nut.
Well, I've been doing it for 50 years and I haven't had many snap. A
lot less than when I just try to muscle them out without heat - and
heating and shocking is a LOT more effective than heating alone.

In critical applications you replace the bolt. Half the time it is so
badly corroded you'd be crazy to try to re-use it even in non-critical
applications.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 06:07:24 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

For me the most important thing is the quality of the steel of the
screw. Buy screws where the metal has been heat treated to make them
tougher. The shape of the head recess comes next in my book. Then, I
put toilet bowl wax on the threads to make them drive much easier.

Someone made a point that you don't want to have to press very hard
when removing a screw. I find this isn't a bigt issue unless the screw
has stripped out the material it is attached to.

My wife was helping me put up a fence in our yard. I started her
driving screws with Robertson (square) heads. She had trouble holding
the drill steady enough to keep the bit aligned. She had no trouble
with the star shaped screw heads.

Probably if I had a hammer driver at the time it wouldn't have been a
problem. Now I do. It makes the OP's question less important.

On 8/4/2014 5:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/4/2014 4:55 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
JAS wrote:

Will try the heat and hitting the blade also==I do have a problem
holding the tools up wile lying under the mower as I have had shoulder
surgery and do not have much strength there. If that dose not work I
will have her take it to a repair shop and get a nut welded on and
have them work on it. I doubt if a replacement spindle is available
as it is a 50's or 60's model.
JAS


Better be real careful with that heat. You have seals and bearings in
there. Just put an air impact on it and hold the blade in your hand
while
you hit it with the gun. This is getting way more complicated than it
needs
to be.

Spindles are very likely to be available - look on the internet. And -
ferchristssake - don't try to do this underneath of the damned deck. Are
you trying to be dumb here? Pull the damned deck out and flip it
over. The
way you're heading you're assuring yourself of a complete and dismal
failure. Sheese - just pull the deck and put a damned air gun on it.


Mike, do you think he should maybe use an air impact? ;~)

I recall using 1" drive impacts years ago, we used them regularly in a
tire store that I worked in, that easily removed the big rig lug nuts.
And we used one to remove the nut Bush Hog blade, 2" nut IIRC.
Use an air impact on the mowers and tractor. And have a 12v version in
the truck for lug nuts on the highway :-). Works great. Just get
the impact socket you need. Sears and many auto stores sell just one.
They also sell long wrenches with sockets on them.

Blades have to be balanced. Must be balanced. They will tear out the
mount if off.

Martin

Martin

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best

On 1/6/18 4:08 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best


Depends. I've had the best luck with Torx, specifically, the Spax Torx
with the nipple in the center.
Square and Torx are still better than Philips.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:08:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best

So far I've managed to strip out square with some regularity but never
had a problem with a torx.

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:08:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best

Three and a half years ago, Torx were still better than square.

On 1/6/2018 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:08:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best

Three and a half years ago, Torx were still better than square.

+1 I like square but I like Torx better

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:27:49 PM UTC-8, J. Clarke wrote:

So far I've managed to strip out square with some regularity but never
had a problem with a torx.

Yep, me too; except for bad drivers, torx has been flawless.
With steel fasteners, both torx and Robertson are good,
but in soft SS the Robertson (tapered square drive) sometimes just
makes a round.

On 1/6/2018 6:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 14:08:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
I can't decide which is better, the square or the star? Which is less likely to strip?

Thanks.

square works best

Three and a half years ago, Torx were still better than square.


Square these days seem to cam out more that I recall. Torx is a
preferred head for me.