Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.

Does someone here can point me out either to the magazine I saw it in
or better to their website (if they have one).

Thanks in advance for any help.

Greg D.

"Greg D." wrote in message
...
Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.

Does someone here can point me out either to the magazine I saw it in
or better to their website (if they have one).

Thanks in advance for any help.

Greg D.

There's an ad in Woodworker's Journal for "Lox" .
try:
www.lox.com

I think it's all part of a conspiracy to sell more screwdrivers. BG

Max

There's an ad in Woodworker's Journal for "Lox" .
try:
www.lox.com

I think it's all part of a conspiracy to sell more screwdrivers. BG

Max

Heh... did you try the 'virtual test?' I want to know what kind of
virtual wood they used.. I have never seen any wood that a #8 Robertson
couldn't drive into!

Drew Read

Must be "hard" wood....

BruceT


"drewread" wrote in message
ups.com...

There's an ad in Woodworker's Journal for "Lox" .
try:
www.lox.com

I think it's all part of a conspiracy to sell more screwdrivers. BG

Max

Heh... did you try the 'virtual test?' I want to know what kind of
virtual wood they used.. I have never seen any wood that a #8 Robertson
couldn't drive into!

Drew Read

In article ,
Max wrote:

There's an ad in Woodworker's Journal for "Lox" .
try:
www.lox.com



So where's the ad for bagels?


--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

"Greg D." wrote in message
...
Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.

Does someone here can point me out either to the magazine I saw it in
or better to their website (if they have one).

Thanks in advance for any help.

Greg D.

I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second stamp.
;~)

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Greg D." wrote in message
...
Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.


I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second
stamp. ;~)

Peachy. Once they're galvanized, you'll have _two_ recesses the square
drive won't fit.

"George" wrote in message
.. .

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Greg D." wrote in message
...
Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.


I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second
stamp. ;~)

Peachy. Once they're galvanized, you'll have _two_ recesses the square
drive won't fit.

I wonder if they will offer an undersized driver for the galvanized screws
like McFeeleys does.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive
rejects. They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the
second stamp.

They are actually Canadian made by a GRK with a "torx" drive head
(http://www.grkfasteners.com/). We've been using them for years since
discovering them at the Homebuilders show back in the late 90s. In
Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've
been able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no
problem getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware
centers.
They are an extremely tough (hardened) screw with good corrosion
resistance. I can count on one hand the number of heads I have snapped
over the last eight or nine years. We hang a lot of cabinets with them
but like them especially when there are framing members to add and no
room for a nailer.
And, I do believe McFeeley's has started carrying them. Locally
they run around $6/lb +/- .

--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

----- Original Message -----
From: "New Wave Dave"
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: New screw head type



They are actually Canadian made by a GRK with a "torx" drive head
(http://www.grkfasteners.com/). --

This is a better link:
http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/R4_1_2_information.htm

"New Wave" Dave In Houston

"New Wave Dave" wrote in message

Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've
been able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no
problem getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware
centers.

I saw them at Circle Saw a couple of weeks back, two days after I needed
them and used something else. You are talking about the ones they sell in
the brown paper bags?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"New Wave Dave" wrote in message

Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've
been able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no
problem getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware
centers.

I saw them at Circle Saw a couple of weeks back, two days after I
needed
them and used something else. You are talking about the ones they sell
in
the brown paper bags?

I am indeed; one and the same. And, they are split-point,
self-drilling with nibs under the heads for countersinking. Most take a
No. 20 torx driver though a couple of the smaller sizes require a No.15.
The Kennedy, Texas "Do-It-Best" [I sometimes frequent I] carries up tp
3-1/4 inch lengths.

"New Wave" Dave In Houston

"New Wave Dave" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second
stamp.

They are actually Canadian made by a GRK with a "torx" drive head
(http://www.grkfasteners.com/). We've been using them for years since
discovering them at the Homebuilders show back in the late 90s. In
Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've been
able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no problem
getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware centers.
They are an extremely tough (hardened) screw with good corrosion
resistance. I can count on one hand the number of heads I have snapped
over the last eight or nine years. We hang a lot of cabinets with them
but like them especially when there are framing members to add and no room
for a nailer.
And, I do believe McFeeley's has started carrying them. Locally they
run around $6/lb +/- .

--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

The LOX head is slightly different from the TORX. Check this:
http://www.lox.com/Lox_v_Phillips.asp

Max

"New Wave Dave" wrote in message
...


I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second
stamp.

They are actually Canadian made by a GRK with a "torx" drive head
(http://www.grkfasteners.com/). We've been using them for years since
discovering them at the Homebuilders show back in the late 90s. In
Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've been
able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no problem
getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware centers.

Nope that is a torx screw the double suare dirive is a Lox drive, Look
here, www.lox.com

The torx has been around GM since the mid 70's.

Leon wrote:
"New Wave Dave" wrote in message
...


I have seen them. I believe that they are regular square drive rejects.
They were double stamped and the screw turned slightly on the second
stamp.

They are actually Canadian made by a GRK with a "torx" drive head
(http://www.grkfasteners.com/). We've been using them for years since
discovering them at the Homebuilders show back in the late 90s. In
Houston, Circle Jerk errr, Circle Saw is the only retail source we've been
able to find for them though, ironically enough, I've had no problem
getting them at small town "Do-It-Best" Lumber and Hardware centers.

Nope that is a torx screw the double suare dirive is a Lox drive, Look
here, www.lox.com

The torx has been around GM since the mid 70's.

Personally, I hope lots of these are sold and used in the next year or
two in all kinds of applications. Then I want to be around a few years
from now when there are no drivers left that fit these things and
countless handymen, builders, homeowners, etc. are doing repairs or
renovations and mightily cursing the "*&%X*+X£ ignorant thoughtless
*******s" who used them to begin with. I love progress!

FoggyTown

"FoggyTown" wrote in message
oups.com...

Leon wrote:
Personally, I hope lots of these are sold and used in the next year or
two in all kinds of applications. Then I want to be around a few years
from now when there are no drivers left that fit these things and
countless handymen, builders, homeowners, etc. are doing repairs or
renovations and mightily cursing the "*&%X*+X£ ignorant thoughtless
*******s" who used them to begin with. I love progress!

Oh, well. Not a remodel job goes by that we don't scratch our butts and
wonder why in the hell "some jake-leg carpenter or plumber or tile man
did something the way it was.
Leon is right [again]; that's progress.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:21:02 -0500, Greg D. wrote:

Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.


I don't suppose you saw the ones used some years ago on US built
mobile homes. Looks like a 'butterfly' shape called Kluthe or clutch?

Pete

wrote in message ...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:21:02 -0500, Greg D. wrote:

I don't suppose you saw the ones used some years ago on US built
mobile homes. Looks like a 'butterfly' shape called Kluthe or clutch?

Pete

These were common on 50's Chevy trucks, the screws that held on the door
handles were clutch head, I think some of the other screws on these pickups
had the clutch head also.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...



These were common on 50's Chevy trucks, the screws that held on the door
handles were clutch head, I think some of the other screws on these
pickups
had the clutch head also.


Clutch screws were but not the ones the OP is talking about. The OP is
talking about "lox" head screws.

www.lox.com

It's not that new... I got a few boxes of those things
with the "Deck Master" kit I bought back in 2001.

They require a special and very hard to find bit...

For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.


Greg D. wrote:

Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
It's not that new... I got a few boxes of those things
with the "Deck Master" kit I bought back in 2001.

They require a special and very hard to find bit...

For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.

To sell special and very hard to find bits of course.

Greg D. wrote:

Hi,

I was flipping through a magazine last week and saw an advertisement
on a new type of screws. It's like a Robertson head but actually it's
got two square heads within each other.

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
It's not that new... I got a few boxes of those things
with the "Deck Master" kit I bought back in 2001.

They require a special and very hard to find bit...

For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.

The why is easy. Phillips screws require a lot more inward pressure to
prevent cam out and the Robertson screw square head tends to snap off bits.

The screws were designed to keep the production level up. If the ability to
do the job is as good as they claim, then the market will dictate that the
design survives.

The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast one
scraps Phillips bits.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Pat Barber" wrote
For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.


...and the Robertson screw square head tends to snap off bits.

Really? I've never snapped off a Robertson bit or screw head, and I've
driven screws that took both hands to resist the torque of the power driver.

I can only imagine that you were either screwing into something really
hard with an impact driver (in which case it should be pre-drilled), or
else the bit had a manufacturing flaw.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Pat Barber" wrote
For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.


...and the Robertson screw square head tends to snap off bits.

Really? I've never snapped off a Robertson bit or screw head, and I've
driven screws that took both hands to resist the torque of the power
driver.

I can only imagine that you were either screwing into something really
hard with an impact driver (in which case it should be pre-drilled), or
else the bit had a manufacturing flaw.

Actually proper use of an impact drive is actually easier on the head of a
screw. Trying to drive a screw farther than it should be driven with an
impact driver can cause a break as with any type driver.
3 weeks ago I built an entire deck cover using the less than ideal common
Deck Screws and used an impact driver to drive the majority of that 5 lb.
box of those 3" screws I broke no screws but did break 2 bit drivers
because of an improper union of the screw and bit. This happened on the
same screw.
I have broken several square head screws with a 9.6 volt drill usually
because the screw was too small for the application or the wood was too hard
for the size screw.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:05:12 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast one
scraps Phillips bits.

It's not cheap if you have to drive to the next town and dig around in
the back room of the hardware store to find one. Though I will agree
that Phillips is a sort of crappy screw head.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:05:12 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast
one
scraps Phillips bits.

It's not cheap if you have to drive to the next town and dig around in
the back room of the hardware store to find one. Though I will agree
that Phillips is a sort of crappy screw head.

I much prefer a torx--you can get the drivers at Sears or Home Depot or any
auto parts store, and Lox doesn't look to be any kind of major improvement
over it. Sure, that business about locking onto the bit sounds good, but a
decent magnetic driver handles that with just about any screw except solid
brass, bronze, or some types of stainless.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:05:12 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast
one
scraps Phillips bits.

It's not cheap if you have to drive to the next town and dig around in
the back room of the hardware store to find one. Though I will agree
that Phillips is a sort of crappy screw head.

I much prefer a torx--you can get the drivers at Sears or Home Depot or
any auto parts store, and Lox doesn't look to be any kind of major
improvement over it. Sure, that business about locking onto the bit
sounds good, but a decent magnetic driver handles that with just about any
screw except solid brass, bronze, or some types of stainless.

Actually if you buy quality screws a square drive bit and screw lock
together with out the need of a magnet driver. I very often have to "Yank"
on the drill to get the bit and screw to part. This is not to say that Torx
is any better or worse but that if the Lox holds the bit better than a good
square drive screw it may be more of a nuisance to use.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:09:15 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:05:12 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast
one
scraps Phillips bits.

It's not cheap if you have to drive to the next town and dig around in
the back room of the hardware store to find one. Though I will agree
that Phillips is a sort of crappy screw head.

I much prefer a torx--you can get the drivers at Sears or Home Depot or any
auto parts store, and Lox doesn't look to be any kind of major improvement
over it. Sure, that business about locking onto the bit sounds good, but a
decent magnetic driver handles that with just about any screw except solid
brass, bronze, or some types of stainless.

Yeah- torx are good, too.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:31 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

It's not that new... I got a few boxes of those things
with the "Deck Master" kit I bought back in 2001.

They require a special and very hard to find bit...

For the life of me, I can't imagine the "why" on this
design.

To make carpenters swear (even more), I'd imagine.

When I put up a deck for my parents this summer, all the deck screws
were combo drives (like a phillips with a square head in the middle.)
They work great- but one bit comes in a 5-lb box. After losing a
couple, I was down to one, and went back to buy some bits- Surprise!
They don't carry them. You have to buy another box of screws to get
the drivers. So, they ended up being funny looking #2 squareheads for
the rest of the project.

Looks like these Lox ones are even worse- no fudging there and using
something that is almost as good, you *have* to use the proprietary
bit.

Even if they're awesome, I think I'll pass- at least until they start
selling the bits in the bins at the checkout of the hardware store
with the phillips and squareheads.

"Prometheus" wrote in message

Looks like these Lox ones are even worse- no fudging there and using
something that is almost as good, you *have* to use the proprietary
bit.

Even if they're awesome, I think I'll pass- at least until they start
selling the bits in the bins at the checkout of the hardware store
with the phillips and squareheads.

Proprietary $ucks for the most part ... and to do it with screw bits, so
that you can only buy the bits with the screws, is so much the "numb nut
corporate mentality" that it hurts.

... "when will they every learn?".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06