Bill wrote in
:

-Steve- wrote:
Bill wrote in
:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
Bill,

Not sure if you know this but you can export an image of your project
without the menu buttons by using File Export 2D Graphic.

This allows you to create an image of whatever view is on your screen
at
the time without cluttering up the image. You can choose 4 different
formats for the image (jpg, tif, bmp, and png).

Hope this helps.
I didn't know that, and it will definitely help. Thank you!

BTW, are you the Steve from Indiana who teaches woodworking classes?



Steve



Nope. Southern California.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:18:17 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I wanted to share the drawing I did tonight with the kind folks here who
help make my progress possible, so I put it on my web site (the
earlier version is there too, just for the sake of comparison).

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
I dunno. I kinda like the cleaner lines of the earlier version, but
I'd add a solid back (with cable-routing holes in the bottom and hot
air escapes at the top)
Gosh, I didn't think about hot air escapes at the top!
I just made a note of that!
It's crucial for higher powered amplifiers and such. If you have lots
of hot items enclosed, think about mounting one or more muffin fans in
there, too. Suck cool air in from the bottom or push hot air out the
top.
I've "cooked" 2 VCRs. Don't stack stuff!


--
I started out with nothing and
I still have most of it left!
--anon

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:18:17 -0500, Bill wrote:

I dunno. I kinda like the cleaner lines of the earlier version, but
I'd
add a solid back (with cable-routing holes in the bottom and hot air
escapes at the top)
Gosh, I didn't think about hot air escapes at the top! I just made a
note of that!

I built one with several component shelves so I left about a 3/4" gap at
the back of each shelf so the hot air could get to the escape at the top.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
As long as my angles come out "true" (90-degrees) everything should
be okay! At least, that's the way I heard the preachin'! : )

Bill
I wanted to share the drawing I did tonight with the kind folks here
who help make my progress possible, so I put it on my web site (the
earlier version is there too, just for the sake of comparison).

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

It's always rewarding to get feedback. And, it needs feet--how many I
don't know!

Good job Bill. I'm curious why you feel the double layer for the top is
necessary?
I'm not sure whether it's "necessary", but I though it added structural
integrity, including securing the faceframe (close to where the cabinets
hang).
Otherwise the faceframe may not "feel" secure when the cabinets are
used, and
that would be sort of disappointing.

I like the idea of screwing the highest "top" on from below, but the 2nd
level sort of gets in the way (of doing that well). I may attach the top
with biscuits or dowels (or both--just a few biscuits for alignment).

Besides that I have been considering adding a 1" wide banding around the
top, with mitered corners, so
that I could route a profile into it. Maybe a gently-sloped "Roman Ogee"
shape onto to the top face?
I will surely need some sort of molding between the faceframe and the
top too. Maybe a simple cove (concave)?
Sometime I'll see what that combination looks like in SketchUp; this is
a new domain for me.

Part of me thinks I should just go begin work on the base, but I know
Swingman would advise that that's all wrong--one is
supposed to have a "more or less complete" vision before starting to cut
the wood! ; )

Cheers,
Bill


Have you considered corner bracing between the front rails and
the side rails (45 degree angle), which you could then drill to accept a
screw coming up from the underside into the bottom of the top? With the
dimensions of your project, a 3/4in top would be plenty strong enough
without doubling it up. Or... am I missing something in your design intent?

Bill wrote:
I like the idea of screwing the highest "top" on from below, but the
2nd
level sort of gets in the way (of doing that well).
--------------------------------------------------------------
That's why "stubby" screwdriver's exist or a 1/4"
ratchet drive with a screwdriver bit, or even a right angle
screwdriver drive.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Bill wrote:
I like the idea of screwing the highest "top" on from below, but the
2nd
level sort of gets in the way (of doing that well).
--------------------------------------------------------------
That's why "stubby" screwdriver's exist or a 1/4"
ratchet drive with a screwdriver bit, or even a right angle
screwdriver drive.

Lew



That ought to save time, and look better, to boot!

Bill

On 1/11/2013 12:32 AM, Bill wrote:
Part of me thinks I should just go begin work on the base, but I know
Swingman would advise that that's all wrong--one is
supposed to have a "more or less complete" vision before starting to cut
the wood! ; )

You have my permission to have at it!

You learn more by doing, than by talking about doing ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:32:17 AM UTC-6, Bill wrote:

I like the idea of screwing the highest "top" on from below, but the 2nd

level sort of gets in the way (of doing that well). I may attach the top

with biscuits or dowels (or both--just a few biscuits for alignment).

I vote screws only. Hex head screws and a socket should make attaching simple and easy, despite the lower shelf. Keep the task simple and easy.

Alignment wouldn't be that far off, anyway, even if you simply eyeballed it.. Your transition molding (*below) will take care of any alignment discrepancy. By all means, making it routine practice, for any project, to be accurate with any type of alignment is good practice. It just seemed, to me, bisquits and/or dowels is a bit overkill in achieving the alignment for the top.... again, keep it simple and easy, when you can.

*Transition molding -
I will surely need some sort of molding between the faceframe and the
top too. Maybe a simple cove (concave)?


Sometime I'll see what that combination looks like in SketchUp; this is
a new domain for me.

You want an expert opinion, ask your wife. Those women have an eye, and/or the gene, for those details. Us guys don't got no sense when it comes to decorating.

Sonny

Sonny wrote:
Sometime I'll see what that combination looks like in SketchUp; this is
a new domain for me.
You want an expert opinion, ask your wife. Those women have an eye, and/or the gene, for those details. Us guys don't got no sense when it comes to decorating.

My wife was an "army brat" who didn't develop that gene. I just
consulted with her (for fun), and got the acknowledgement thast these
decision are "all mine".
On the positive side, she is eager to have some finely crafted wooden
furniture (my words).

Cheers,
Bill


Sonny

Swingman wrote:

Here's the casework:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16516513022130


Here's the casework with base attached:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16532739249570


Here's what the base looks like from bottom side:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16543789641538


I alternated looking at picture 3 and 4 of the base for at least a half
hour before I figured out how complicated, or simple, the base really is
depending on one's point of view. At first I thought the cabinetry
rested on top of the base (silly me!)
Really remarkable construction (and evidently rock-solid).

If there are any other newbes reading who like cabinetry, I suggest they
not pass up this great lessson (and I think it's a tough one).

BTW, I don't think you learn technique like this at the table saw... and
I just proved that you don't need a table saw to learn this technique.
Wonderfully satisfying "solution"...

Bill

On 1/12/2013 1:24 AM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:

Here's the casework:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16516513022130


Here's the casework with base attached:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16532739249570


Here's what the base looks like from bottom side:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16543789641538


I alternated looking at picture 3 and 4 of the base for at least a half
hour before I figured out how complicated, or simple, the base really is
depending on one's point of view. At first I thought the cabinetry
rested on top of the base (silly me!)
Really remarkable construction (and evidently rock-solid).

If there are any other newbes reading who like cabinetry, I suggest they
not pass up this great lessson (and I think it's a tough one).

BTW, I don't think you learn technique like this at the table saw... and
I just proved that you don't need a table saw to learn this technique.
Wonderfully satisfying "solution"...

This was a commissioned piece for a client who lives about 150 miles
from here. Last thing I want to do is to get a call from a client in the
future with a problem, so I tend to overbuild with a belt and suspenders
approach. I don't mind being invited back to "touch" years and more down
the road, but certainly never want to go back for a "fix" of any kind.

This particular piece your were talking about above, the base is an
integral part of the bottom, and was actually built around, and attached
to, the bottom cabinet as it was applied.

On the first example in the previous post (Tansu stack-able cabinets),
the base and the bottom cabinets are separate units, to make it easy to
move around, and facilitate stacking the parts in different configurations:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...04373306878306

Both bases are built with the same approach, one that is certainly not
my invention, but an old one which I basically copied/picked up from a
cabinetmaker I had to good fortune to work with in England for a while,
whose family had been in the business for a few hundred years.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:16:27 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/12/2013 1:24 AM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:

Here's the casework:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16516513022130


Here's the casework with base attached:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16532739249570


Here's what the base looks like from bottom side:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16543789641538


I alternated looking at picture 3 and 4 of the base for at least a half
hour before I figured out how complicated, or simple, the base really is
depending on one's point of view. At first I thought the cabinetry
rested on top of the base (silly me!)
Really remarkable construction (and evidently rock-solid).

If there are any other newbes reading who like cabinetry, I suggest they
not pass up this great lessson (and I think it's a tough one).

BTW, I don't think you learn technique like this at the table saw... and
I just proved that you don't need a table saw to learn this technique.
Wonderfully satisfying "solution"...

This was a commissioned piece for a client who lives about 150 miles
from here. Last thing I want to do is to get a call from a client in the
future with a problem, so I tend to overbuild with a belt and suspenders
approach. I don't mind being invited back to "touch" years and more down
the road, but certainly never want to go back for a "fix" of any kind.

This particular piece your were talking about above, the base is an
integral part of the bottom, and was actually built around, and attached
to, the bottom cabinet as it was applied.

On the first example in the previous post (Tansu stack-able cabinets),
the base and the bottom cabinets are separate units, to make it easy to
move around, and facilitate stacking the parts in different configurations:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...04373306878306

Both bases are built with the same approach, one that is certainly not
my invention, but an old one which I basically copied/picked up from a
cabinetmaker I had to good fortune to work with in England for a while,
whose family had been in the business for a few hundred years.

The first time you showed this it went in my saved file. When my
destruction team of Samoyed brothers are gone, now 13, I will be
redoing the kitchen where they have chewed the corners of drawers, and
eaten thru one wall. I know the floor isn't level so this is an
elegant solution.

Mike M

Swingman wrote:

This particular piece your were talking about above, the base is an
integral part of the bottom, and was actually built around, and
attached to, the bottom cabinet as it was applied.
-- Thank you for including that little morsal! In my mind, I had
been struggling to make the case fit the base.
Given what can go wrong at assembly, it seems like the dado groove for
the floor should be cut just a tad deep (less than 1/16" say), so that
the corners of the base can meet perfectly. Is that reasonable thinking?

On the first example in the previous post (Tansu stack-able cabinets),
the base and the bottom cabinets are separate units, to make it easy
to move around, and facilitate stacking the parts in different
configurations:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...04373306878306


Both bases are built with the same approach,
--- But the latter one just has a rebate to hold the carcase right?
Or did you add more wood to the base (like in the "belt w/suspenders"
approach?)
The hardware that you used in the corners of the first example appears
stronger than the 2 pieces of wood (which appear just butt-jointed
together) under the levelers in the 2nd example (which I assume have the
same reinforcing intent). Is anything else reinforcing the corners of
the base that I can't see, like biscuits?

Maybe you have a hunch what the next incarnation of my TV-Stand will
look like?

The only other new thing that occured to me is that for an inset cabinet
door, a hungarian hinge attaches to the inside wall, I believe.
Presently my "inside wall" is also the end of my case and will be a
about 2 inches away or so. I assume that there is a hinge for an inset
cabinet door that attaches to the back and edge of the faceframe. I
need to learn more about them. Classes resume Monday, so I can mostly
just think and draw for the time being anyway. A detailed SketchUp parts
diagram will be a reasonable short term goal. I won't comit to a design
until I locate my hinges! I feel like I made some big steps this week!

Cheers,
Bill


one that is certainly not my invention, but an old one which I
basically copied/picked up from a cabinetmaker I had to good fortune
to work with in England for a while, whose family had been in the
business for a few hundred years.

Sonny wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:32:17 AM UTC-6, Bill wrote:

I will surely need some sort of molding between the faceframe and the
top too. Maybe a simple cove (concave)?

Sometime I'll see what that combination looks like in SketchUp; this is
a new domain for me.
You want an expert opinion, ask your wife. Those women have an eye, and/or the gene, for those details. Us guys don't got no sense when it comes to decorating.

Sonny

I'm not exactly sure why at least 3 of us want to make SketchUp users
out of everyone. But just for fun I drew a couple moldings, my first effort,
and took 2 snapshots (using Steve's tip on Exporting 2D images), just to
help illustratethat this is not a bad tool to experiment with
moldings.Iknow alot more is possible, asI subscribe to the free
SketchUcation Newsletter, but this only took 10 or 15 minutes, including
do-overs!

They are the 3rd and 4th image on my website (below), if anyone wants to
see. They are not intended to be glamour shots. I am just trying to
inform, and maybe entertain a little, and I learned a little in the
process. I'm a SU user who doesn't practice much, and Iprobably rate 2
out of 10and am aspiring to get to 3! : ) Search for the SketchUcation
Newsletter if you want to see really wondrous SU work.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Swingman wrote in
:

On 1/9/2013 6:22 AM, Bill wrote:
I wanted to share the drawing I did tonight with the kind folks here
who help make my progress possible, so I put it on my web site (the
earlier version is there too, just for the sake of comparison).

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Looking very good, Bill.

It's totally a matter of taste, and suit yourself, but I would put the
wider rails of your face frames on the bottom, not the top.

Also, you might want to consider making a similar base to this, with
six adjustable feet, for the TV unit to sit on:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopTexasTansu2
005#5669704288278669858

A base of this type would provide support for your span; make a nice
visual transition from the face frame; and would easily support six
adjustable feet (one in each corner, and two in the middle, front and
back) that would insure that the unit sits solidly on an uneven floor
without detracting from the visual aspect.

Although, this one is a bit more fancy with the curves, it gives the
appearance of having four feet, and if you do it like this, you will
only need four adjustable feet.

Here's the casework:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopDiningRoomH
utch2009#5663816516513022130

Here's the casework with base attached:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopDiningRoomH
utch2009#5663816532739249570

Here's what the base looks like from bottom side:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopDiningRoomH
utch2009#5663816543789641538

Here's the whole enchilada trimmed out:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopDiningRoomH
utch2009#5663816649603519954

Concept drawing, showing a wider unit than yours, sitting on a base
with four adjustable feet, with a whole lot more weight and longer
span to contend with:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopDiningRoomH
utch2009#5664536626288014658

And, so you can orbit around something completed, here's the same
model I used to collaborate with the client, who lived a few hundred
miles away, for both the design and fabrication of the dining room set
I made for her:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...8167d08ac659b0
e787f72ad393&prevstart=0

Just some more ideas to play around with.

BTW, congratulation on your modeling. You are obviously becoming quite
proficient with SketchUp and it shows, AND, as we see here, it gives
you the ability to benefit with a bit of collaboration and swapping of
ideas.

Whichever way you go, you're doing good ...

+1 for everything. Gave me the best idea yet of how to attach the
shelves of my coffeetable ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:41:26 AM UTC-6, Bill wrote:

I'm not exactly sure why at least 3 of us want to make SketchUp users

out of everyone.

SU is free. Everyone should, at least, check it out. Even if someone can't perform its basics tasks, it'll give the woodworker some elements of drafting/pre-drafting, design, measrue and asssembly, beyond their present abilities. Once you see its helpfulness, you'll want to exploer, more, of its assistance to you. ***Assistance to you - more below!

But just for fun I drew a couple moldings, my first effort,

and took 2 snapshots (using Steve's tip on Exporting 2D images), just to

help illustratethat this is not a bad tool to experiment with

moldings.

Right. With my last reply, I almost spoke too fast.

For that transition, from top to cabinet, any molding would likely work just fine. When you don't have scrap molding to place, there, and see, in person, another viewing option is helpful.

*I almost spoke too fast (I initially misread what you wrote). ***assistance to you. When I first read your posting, I read it as your depending on SU, itself, to make the decision for you, as to what molding would be best, and not that you would use SU to assist in your deciding.

Regarding the transition moldings, elements. I would suggest not making the molding so large or elaborate as to draw attention to itself. It is to be a transition piece, not necessarily a prominent design feature. When judging what molding to use, don't look at the molding. Look at the 2 features it is transitioning to-from, to make sure the transition is smooth and not interrupted by the molding, i.e., not interrupted by an over large or elaborate molding.

Sonny

On 1/13/2013 5:41 AM, Bill wrote:

They are the 3rd and 4th image on my website (below), if anyone wants to
see. They are not intended to be glamour shots. I am just trying to
inform, and maybe entertain a little, and I learned a little in the
process. I'm a SU user who doesn't practice much, and Iprobably rate 2
out of 10and am aspiring to get to 3! : ) Search for the SketchUcation
Newsletter if you want to see really wondrous SU work.

Well done, Bill ... what you just did is the absolute epitome of why I
have been basically evangelizing about SU for woodworking for the past
six years.

At the top of the list of benefits, besides the myriad benefits your
projects ultimately gain from perfecting a design, are "presentation"
and "collaboration".

You have "presented" your ideas in a clear, concise manner, and opened
the door, and your mind, for further ideas through "collaboration", from
which you can now pick and choose.

Those who make a conscious effort to make full use of available
technology in their endeavors, of all types, are much more likely to
succeed.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/12/2013 10:45 PM, Bill wrote:

-- Thank you for including that little morsal! In my mind, I had
been struggling to make the case fit the base.
Given what can go wrong at assembly, it seems like the dado groove for
the floor should be cut just a tad deep (less than 1/16" say), so that
the corners of the base can meet perfectly. Is that reasonable thinking?

Yes, if I understand your question correctly.

In this one below, the cabinet/casework simply sits upon the ledge
formed by the rabbet in the removable base, but you still want a
reasonably close fit for the visual aspect, but with a bit of wiggle
room for ease of use, say 1/8" all around:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...04288278669858

This type of base is easy to make because you can route/cut rabbets in
long pieces the stock you use for the sides, then "cut to fit with
miters" the base sides, just as you would with trim on a table top.

I do like to reinforce the corners of this type of base, either with
wood blocks, angled corner braces of wood, or, as in the photo, I used
leftover metal corner braces from a previous project ... suit yourself.

Both bases are built with the same approach,
--- But the latter one just has a rebate to hold the carcase right? Or
did you add more wood to the base (like in the "belt w/suspenders"
approach?)

In this one, instead of a rabbet edge for the casework to sit on, I
simply used a 1 x 2 x 3/4 "ledger board", glued and screwed to the back
of the base sides:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...16543789641538

The idea in both examples is to form a ledge for the cabinet/casework to
sit upon.

I prefer this method when the superstructure will be very heavy and I
want the base to be an integral part of the structure.

You decision entirely, based on your design.

The hardware that you used in the corners of the first example appears
stronger than the 2 pieces of wood (which appear just butt-jointed
together) under the levelers in the 2nd example (which I assume have the
same reinforcing intent).

That "ledger board" is mitered in the corners, and glued and screwed to
the visible sides of the base, as well as the spacer blocks for the
levelers ... no butt joints.

IOW, by gluing all these components to the four sides of the base
itself, you are effectively making a single component out of all the parts.

My rationale for making an effort to create a "single component", is
that I like to transfer all weight to the floor/ground in as straight
and direct a manner as possible, just as you would do with beams and
headers in a construction project.

Is anything else reinforcing the corners of
the base that I can't see, like biscuits?

Yes ... when I do mitered corners in furniture and casework of any kind,
I always reinforce the inherently weak miter joint in some manner; in
this particular case with biscuits, because I own a plate jointer.

Doing so makes it easier to align during assembly and glue-up, and you
do indeed get added strength from the biscuits in this application
(regardless of what some will proclaim to the contrary).

You could also use any of the other traditional methods to reinforce
miter joints ... splines, etc.

Maybe you have a hunch what the next incarnation of my TV-Stand will
look like?

The only other new thing that occured to me is that for an inset cabinet
door, a hungarian hinge attaches to the inside wall, I believe.
Presently my "inside wall" is also the end of my case and will be a
about 2 inches away or so. I assume that there is a hinge for an inset
cabinet door that attaches to the back and edge of the faceframe. I
need to learn more about them. Classes resume Monday, so I can mostly
just think and draw for the time being anyway. A detailed SketchUp parts
diagram will be a reasonable short term goal. I won't comit to a design
until I locate my hinges! I feel like I made some big steps this week!

Absolutely do all your research and choose, and insure availability of
your hinges and slides well before you decide upon a final design.

You've come a long way toward getting the idea handsomely, Bill!

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Sonny wrote:
Regarding the transition moldings, elements. I would suggest not
making the molding so large or elaborate as to draw attention to
itself. It is to be a transition piece, not necessarily a prominent
design feature. When judging what molding to use, don't look at the
molding. Look at the 2 features it is transitioning to-from, to make
sure the transition is smooth and not interrupted by the molding,
i.e., not interrupted by an over large or elaborate molding. Sonny

Thank you. That is helpful guidance.

Bill

Bill wrote in news:kcu6on012e1
@news3.newsguy.com:

http://web.n

Bill,

Congrats. Your pictures are a lot cleaner without all the menu clutter.
Every time I do something for the house I export a concept image to show
SWMBO for her approval.

Steve

-Steve- wrote:
Bill wrote in news:kcu6on012e1
@news3.newsguy.com:

http://web.n

Bill,

Congrats. Your pictures are a lot cleaner without all the menu
clutter. Every time I do something for the house I export a concept
image to show SWMBO for her approval.


That's were I see the value in a utility like this. It serves no purpose in
helping me visualize or understand how parts of a project will go together
for me, but it is very helpful as a presentation tool for others to get an
idea what you're talking about. I have not used it so much as a
collaboration tool, but I can certainly see it's value there as well.

--

-Mike-