Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

Bob wrote:Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob


It could very well be impossible. Something I'm guilty of quite a lot, is
worrying too much. What are you creating that you need so flat? Wood moves, and
a "few thou" seems pretty darn good to me, especially with "cordless" tools.
Tom
Work at your leisure!

Yes... a DJ-20 (which is NOT a hand plane) and
throw that flashlight away...

You aren't building a nuclear reactor out of wood.

Bob wrote:

No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible.

Bob wrote:

Hello:

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob
striving for perfection. do you REALLY need a piece of wood
to be "dead flat", Bob?

dave

(Bob) wrote in
om:

Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

What you are doing wrong is expecting wood to be something God didn't make
it to be. It isn't metal, or stone, or glass, or plastic.

Thank God.

Patriarch

Bob,

Others have addressed the wood being flat issue for you but since you said
"When I shine a light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou.",
it in-fact could be your Starett. The typical straight-edge is only
guaranteed to .002 in 12" in. So how much do you really think you're off?

Bob S.


"Bob" wrote in message
om...
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:04:55 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

Yes... a DJ-20 (which is NOT a hand plane) and
throw that flashlight away...

You aren't building a nuclear reactor out of wood.

Do you know where I can get plans for that - preferably free, since it is
getting expensive to be fighting the infidels in so many places around the
world? (Yes, I've already googled.) -- Osama

Oh yeh - Death to America!

picky, picky, picky..................

"none" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Others have addressed the wood being flat issue for you but since you said
"When I shine a light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few
thou.",
it in-fact could be your Starett. The typical straight-edge is only
guaranteed to .002 in 12" in. So how much do you really think you're off?

Bob S.


"Bob" wrote in message
om...
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

Light behind a straightedge is deceiving. You can easily see .0001.

"Bob" wrote in message
om...
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message

What am I doing wrong?

Using a straight edge.

You get better results if you just run your hand across it. If it feels
flat, it is flat. Another method is to take the piece into the house and
ask your wife "how does this look?" If she says "good", you are done.

Simplify your life. Nothing is perfect. Accept it.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

I can empathize with you. And sometimes it is interesting to do something
just for the challenge of it, if no other reason. So go for it, and you
will learn a lot. A couple of questions.

First, do you have a reference surface that is flat? Usually a granite
block, these things cost significant $$ but are the real reference in
machine shops where a "flat" surface is required. Without that reference,
your straightedge is probably off by more than your desired flatness, unless
you have some specialized tools.

Second, what is the ratio between the area you are trying to flatten and the
thickness of the piece? Keep in mind **everything** bends -- it's just a
matter of degree how much. Unless the ratio less than about 3 (three times
as long as the piece is thick) you shouldn't expect to hold a surface flat.
How do you judge the flatness of a peice of cardboard? It bend when you
pick it up. Look at the backing of optical mirrors -- they are not just
left to flex as they wish.

Third, how big is the flat surface? If you want a area of more than (say)
6x6 inches, in wood, good luck. If it is 2x2 inches, you will have better
chances. In big pieces of wood, the material rigidity and stability just
are not in favor of your success. Stuff that can be made flat -- and stay
flat -- is usually stiff and brittle: not the description one would apply to
wood. This is why flat surfaces on machines are often cast iron, not steel.

Keep us posted.

Matthew


"Bob" wrote in message
om...
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 20:53:45 -0500, "Matthew"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Nice answer. You have, I think, been trolled.

I can empathize with you. And sometimes it is interesting to do something
just for the challenge of it, if no other reason. So go for it, and you
will learn a lot. A couple of questions.

First, do you have a reference surface that is flat? Usually a granite
block, these things cost significant $$ but are the real reference in
machine shops where a "flat" surface is required. Without that reference,

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 00:36:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message

What am I doing wrong?

Using a straight edge.

You get better results if you just run your hand across it. If it feels
flat, it is flat. Another method is to take the piece into the house and
ask your wife "how does this look?" If she says "good", you are done.


Would you use this standard for two "flat" surfaces you are trying to
join together? The OP has a good point, how close is close-enough for
joining two edges? Sure, you can force two pieces together, but at what
point is one trying to make the glued surface do too much?

(Bob) wrote in message . com...

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Assuming this isn't a troll: A few thou is perfectly adequate for
most things, and wood moves, so even if you got what you thought was a
perfectly flat surface today, by tomorrow it could be off.

I do all my thicknessing by hand too, and I've finally come to the
conclusion that what really matters is that the area where the wood
will be joined. E.g., if you're going to be joining pieces with
dovetails, make sure that your ends are flat and of uniform thickness,
but don't sweat it if the center of the board is off by a tiny bit.

If you're surfacing a board for a tabletop, you want to make sure
that the contact points where it will rest on the base are uniform,
but having it be a bit off in the center probably won't matter
(especially on the bottom).

FWIW, as far as technique goes: I usually start with a piece that
is slightly oversize and use either a foreplane, jointer or low-angle
jack with a toothing iron and approach the board at an angle (roughly
45 degrees). I plane across from one direction until I've covered
the whole board with plane tracks and then reverse and go from the
other direction until I've removed all of the first marks. (I also
check with a straightedge or winding sticks to make sure I'm not
dealing with a twisted board.)

Then I come back with a smoother and go with the grain until I've
gotten rid of all of the previous marks. Usually by then the board is
pretty close to flat and all it takes is a bit of tweaking. (Again,
if the board is twisted it takes a bit more work, but usually the
initial planing with the jointer will get it pretty close if you check
it with the winding sticks as you go.)

Most of all, don't stress over it. This is supposed to be fun. If
you're not having any luck getting a board flat, give it a rest and go
sharpen your plane irons or clean up your shop. Take a break from it,
or you may just wind up making the situation worse. DAMHIKT.


Chuck Vance

In article ,
Bob wrote:
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

I'm sure there are those who will disagree with me, but if you have
made a wooden surface flat to within a few thousandths, IMHO you have
already spent too much time on it.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Osama wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:04:55 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

Yes... a DJ-20 (which is NOT a hand plane) and
throw that flashlight away...

You aren't building a nuclear reactor out of wood.

Do you know where I can get plans for that - preferably free, since it is
getting expensive to be fighting the infidels in so many places around the
world? (Yes, I've already googled.) -- Osama

Oh yeh - Death to America!

Shouldn't have threatened the Pakis you twit.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Chuck,
Have you ever thickness planed a piece of Sapele?


"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
om...
(Bob) wrote in message
. com...

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Assuming this isn't a troll: A few thou is perfectly adequate for
most things, and wood moves, so even if you got what you thought was a
perfectly flat surface today, by tomorrow it could be off.

I do all my thicknessing by hand too, and I've finally come to the
conclusion that what really matters is that the area where the wood
will be joined. E.g., if you're going to be joining pieces with
dovetails, make sure that your ends are flat and of uniform thickness,
but don't sweat it if the center of the board is off by a tiny bit.

If you're surfacing a board for a tabletop, you want to make sure
that the contact points where it will rest on the base are uniform,
but having it be a bit off in the center probably won't matter
(especially on the bottom).

FWIW, as far as technique goes: I usually start with a piece that
is slightly oversize and use either a foreplane, jointer or low-angle
jack with a toothing iron and approach the board at an angle (roughly
45 degrees). I plane across from one direction until I've covered
the whole board with plane tracks and then reverse and go from the
other direction until I've removed all of the first marks. (I also
check with a straightedge or winding sticks to make sure I'm not
dealing with a twisted board.)

Then I come back with a smoother and go with the grain until I've
gotten rid of all of the previous marks. Usually by then the board is
pretty close to flat and all it takes is a bit of tweaking. (Again,
if the board is twisted it takes a bit more work, but usually the
initial planing with the jointer will get it pretty close if you check
it with the winding sticks as you go.)

Most of all, don't stress over it. This is supposed to be fun. If
you're not having any luck getting a board flat, give it a rest and go
sharpen your plane irons or clean up your shop. Take a break from it,
or you may just wind up making the situation worse. DAMHIKT.


Chuck Vance

Lowell Holmes wrote:

Chuck,
Have you ever thickness planed a piece of Sapele?

Is that a trick question, Lowell? :-)

To the best of my knowledge, I've never planed any sapele at all. I
have thickness planed cocobolo, yellowheart, purpleheart and various
other quilted and figured woods. It's not something I enjoy, but I do
it if I have to.

So what's sapele like?


Chuck Vance

It is a mahogany type wood from Africa that has ribbon stripe grain that is
interlocked and reverse. P van Rijckevorsel revealed that It plains well
cross grain, but not with the grain. If your interested, check out the
string *Sapele confusion*.

It is not a trick question. I think it is a gorgeous wood and have a project
in mind using it.
I bought a board and will make a box or table in order to learn how to work
it.

"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

Chuck,
Have you ever thickness planed a piece of Sapele?

Is that a trick question, Lowell? :-)

To the best of my knowledge, I've never planed any sapele at all. I
have thickness planed cocobolo, yellowheart, purpleheart and various
other quilted and figured woods. It's not something I enjoy, but I do
it if I have to.

So what's sapele like?


Chuck Vance

Wow. I get the feeling others have struggled with this problem and
gotten past the obsession.

While I realize that I am very obsesssive, I am trying to flatten two
things that need to be flat: a pair of vise jaws and a block of maple
that will be coated with green compound for sharpening. I have read
that if you see any light behind a straightedge, the work is not flat,
from which I surmised that one can make a piece of wood flat. (BTW My
Starrett is flat, as I do have a small granite plate.)

Perhaps I will just use the natural light of my shop to peak under the
straightedge- instead of a light directly behind. No light shows up in
that case, and I can pretend its perfectly flat. ( I am able to trick
my mind in this way- I can also bend spoons with it. Or forks.
Plates.)

All in all, I think I will take the majority of the advice here and
not worry too much- because one thing is for sure, its making ww not
fun.

Well, okay maybe its a little fun.

Thanks for the replies.

Bob the Newbie (not the other Bob)

(Bob) wrote in message . com...
Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob

Bob wrote:

Wow. I get the feeling others have struggled with this problem and
gotten past the obsession.

While I realize that I am very obsesssive, I am trying to flatten two
things that need to be flat: a pair of vise jaws and a block of maple
that will be coated with green compound for sharpening. I have read
that if you see any light behind a straightedge, the work is not flat,
from which I surmised that one can make a piece of wood flat. (BTW My
Starrett is flat, as I do have a small granite plate.)

Perhaps I will just use the natural light of my shop to peak under the
straightedge- instead of a light directly behind. No light shows up in
that case, and I can pretend its perfectly flat. ( I am able to trick
my mind in this way- I can also bend spoons with it. Or forks.
Plates.)

All in all, I think I will take the majority of the advice here and
not worry too much- because one thing is for sure, its making ww not
fun.

Well, okay maybe its a little fun.

Thanks for the replies.

Bob the Newbie (not the other Bob)

(Bob) wrote in message . com...

Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob
I prefer my MDF jaws on my newer vise to the maple jaws I
had on my POS Fox vise. MDF is PLENTY flat enough for a
vise. you are only talking 7-10 inches length. when
compressed, don't you think even IF they weren't PERFECTLY
flat, they would conform to the item in between the jaws?

for the sharpening plate I don't know what to tell you; I
use the scary sharp method to hone blades (sandpapers and
mylar films on top of a piece of ultra flat tile. Therefore
I don't know if MDF would be appropriate as a substrate for
pastes. I'd think it would deteriorate fast.

dave

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message ...

It is a mahogany type wood from Africa that has ribbon stripe grain that is
interlocked and reverse. P van Rijckevorsel revealed that It plains well
cross grain, but not with the grain. If your interested, check out the
string *Sapele confusion*.

I had seen the thread title and passed it by. I'll check it out,
thanks.

It is not a trick question. I think it is a gorgeous wood and have a project
in mind using it.
I bought a board and will make a box or table in order to learn how to work
it.

I'll have to do a Google search and see if I can find some pics of
it. So I wonder how the stuff scrapes? Seems like you could always
fall back on that if necessary.


Chuck Vance

My Stanley 80 does a decent job, but sanding is required to get a smooth
surface. I was just curious if you had ever worked with it. I have two
pieces of 4/4, the smaller one being about 36" x 9". I intend to re-saw it
to about 3/8" and make a box just to see how it works.

Now that I've finished another project, I'll start the box today.

"Conan The Librarian" wrote in message
om...

I'll have to do a Google search and see if I can find some pics of
it. So I wonder how the stuff scrapes? Seems like you could always
fall back on that if necessary.


Chuck Vance

Lowell Holmes wrote:

My Stanley 80 does a decent job, but sanding is required to get a smooth
surface. I was just curious if you had ever worked with it. I have two
pieces of 4/4, the smaller one being about 36" x 9". I intend to re-saw it
to about 3/8" and make a box just to see how it works.

I just went back and re-read the thread on sapele, and did a little
Googling to find some pics of the stuff. It does look like the stuff
I've seen called ribbon-stripe mahogany. I'm guessing that a low-angle
smoother would be the way to go, and failing that, a scraper.

But I'm fascinated by the idea of planing across the grain. I've
never done that for smoothing a piece. So you wanna send me a hunk of
this stuff so I can play around with it? ;-)

Now that I've finished another project, I'll start the box today.

Cool, let us know how it goes.


Chuck Vance

Clark's Hardwood Lumber has ribbon stripe mahogany that is an African
Mahogany and it is different from the Sapele. If I end up with a piece I
have no use for, I'll consider Fedexing it to you. :-)


"Conan the Librarian" wrote in message
...
Lowell Holmes wrote:

My Stanley 80 does a decent job, but sanding is required to get a smooth
surface. I was just curious if you had ever worked with it. I have two
pieces of 4/4, the smaller one being about 36" x 9". I intend to re-saw
it
to about 3/8" and make a box just to see how it works.

I just went back and re-read the thread on sapele, and did a little
Googling to find some pics of the stuff. It does look like the stuff
I've seen called ribbon-stripe mahogany. I'm guessing that a low-angle
smoother would be the way to go, and failing that, a scraper.

But I'm fascinated by the idea of planing across the grain. I've
never done that for smoothing a piece. So you wanna send me a hunk of
this stuff so I can play around with it? ;-)

Now that I've finished another project, I'll start the box today.

Cool, let us know how it goes.


Chuck Vance

Conan the Librarian wrote...

But I'm fascinated by the idea of planing across the grain. I've
never done that for smoothing a piece. So you wanna send me a hunk of
this stuff so I can play around with it? ;-)


I've got a fair amount left over from an entry door I made last year.

http://www.paragoncode.com/woodworking/entry_door

Email me your snail-mail address if you'd like a piece. I'll try to pick
out a nice ribbony one for you. How big?

The final surfacing on the door was done with hand tools. The smoother
tackled nearly everything without complaint. In a few areas (mostly where
my joinery was less than perfect) I resorted to the scraper. I should
note that I do have a pretty decent smoother.

IME, planing directly across the grain produces a rougher texture than I
like, but I don't recall if I did any of that on this project. Planing
obliquely usually gives me a smoother finish.

Some areas of the door where the grain reversal was particularly abrupt
and wild -- such as in the kick and lock rails -- needed carefully chosen
approach angles to produce the best surface. Those angles were "carefully
chosen" by experimentation on the particular piece (G). Oddly, sometimes
working nearly aligned with the more vertical grain sections seemed to
work best, if that makes any sense. As it was, some of the ribbon texture
still felt a little hairy until finishing. By the time the nibs from the
first coat of lacquer were gone, all was well.

Cheers!

Jim

Jim Wilson wrote in message hlink.net...

I've got a fair amount left over from an entry door I made last year.

http://www.paragoncode.com/woodworking/entry_door

Email me your snail-mail address if you'd like a piece. I'll try to pick
out a nice ribbony one for you.

Done.

The final surfacing on the door was done with hand tools. The smoother
tackled nearly everything without complaint. In a few areas (mostly where
my joinery was less than perfect) I resorted to the scraper. I should
note that I do have a pretty decent smoother.

I've got a few as well. :-) I tend to start with a low-angle and
then my L-N #4-1/2 and finally my C&W wooden smoother if all else
fails.

So what smoother did you use on the project?

IME, planing directly across the grain produces a rougher texture than I
like, but I don't recall if I did any of that on this project. Planing
obliquely usually gives me a smoother finish.

Yes, that's why it caught my attention. The only time I ever even
go as far as diagonally is when I doing rough surfacing work.

Some areas of the door where the grain reversal was particularly abrupt
and wild -- such as in the kick and lock rails -- needed carefully chosen
approach angles to produce the best surface. Those angles were "carefully
chosen" by experimentation on the particular piece (G).

That sounds faimilar. Sometimes you just have to suck it up, put
the plane to the wood and hope you don't get so much tearout that it
takes forever to clean up. DAMHIKT.

Oddly, sometimes
working nearly aligned with the more vertical grain sections seemed to
work best, if that makes any sense. As it was, some of the ribbon texture
still felt a little hairy until finishing. By the time the nibs from the
first coat of lacquer were gone, all was well.

Beautiful work on that door, Jim. And thanks for the offer.


Chuck Vance

Conan The Librarian wrote...

So what smoother did you use on the project?

It's a Knight infill, mostly. It started life as a reject infill plane
body, when I was doing the metalwork for Steve Knight's infills. This one
had two mislocated holes on one side -- how did they get there?! (G) --
so I made it a user.

Steve did the initial shaping on the bed and toe piece from a pretty
little piece of claro walnut. I eventually got a round TUIT, plugged and
redrilled the bad holes and finished the plane. It took some fettling,
but made a fine smoother in the end.

Beautiful work on that door, Jim.

Thanks. It was an edifying project for me. I'll be starting on its
sister, the garage side entrance, in a few weeks. Bad timing on this
one, though. Right now, he wood is in the driveway soaking up our
unusually high humidity of late. :-(

And thanks for the offer.

No sweat. One of the most interesting things about our hobby is
"discovering" a new species.

Cheers!

Jim

If I can butt in, what angle is the iron in the infill? :-)
I've been toying with a Knight 45 degree smoother and a Knight 60 degree
smoother. My 604 seems to do the best job so far (on the Sapele). I used the
45 degree Knight smoother a lot on a recent mesquite project.

I'm curious if a LV scraper plane might be a good choice.



"Jim Wilson" wrote in message
news
Conan The Librarian wrote...

So what smoother did you use on the project?

It's a Knight infill, mostly. It started life as a reject infill plane
body, when I was doing the metalwork for Steve Knight's infills. This one
had two mislocated holes on one side -- how did they get there?! (G) --
so I made it a user.

Steve did the initial shaping on the bed and toe piece from a pretty
little piece of claro walnut. I eventually got a round TUIT, plugged and
redrilled the bad holes and finished the plane. It took some fettling,
but made a fine smoother in the end.

Beautiful work on that door, Jim.

Thanks. It was an edifying project for me. I'll be starting on its
sister, the garage side entrance, in a few weeks. Bad timing on this
one, though. Right now, he wood is in the driveway soaking up our
unusually high humidity of late. :-(

And thanks for the offer.

No sweat. One of the most interesting things about our hobby is
"discovering" a new species.

Cheers!

Jim

Lowell Holmes wrote...

If I can butt in, what angle is the iron in the infill? :-)

It's 50 degrees.

I've been toying with a Knight 45 degree smoother and a Knight 60 degree
smoother. My 604 seems to do the best job so far (on the Sapele). I used the
45 degree Knight smoother a lot on a recent mesquite project.

I have also a Knight 45-degree woodie, but the Sapele is too picky for it
as it stands. If time were taken to close the mouth, which *is*
adjustable, and tune it carefully, this plane might have served. But the
infill was at hand, and for "jumpy" woods like Sapele, I prefer its added
mass, anyway.

Cheers!

Jim

Correction:

When I said a few thousands of an inch- I was reading the gauge wrong-
its actually a few hundreths. Does this change things?

Bob




Bay Area Dave wrote in message . com...
Bob wrote:

Wow. I get the feeling others have struggled with this problem and
gotten past the obsession.

While I realize that I am very obsesssive, I am trying to flatten two
things that need to be flat: a pair of vise jaws and a block of maple
that will be coated with green compound for sharpening. I have read
that if you see any light behind a straightedge, the work is not flat,
from which I surmised that one can make a piece of wood flat. (BTW My
Starrett is flat, as I do have a small granite plate.)

Perhaps I will just use the natural light of my shop to peak under the
straightedge- instead of a light directly behind. No light shows up in
that case, and I can pretend its perfectly flat. ( I am able to trick
my mind in this way- I can also bend spoons with it. Or forks.
Plates.)

All in all, I think I will take the majority of the advice here and
not worry too much- because one thing is for sure, its making ww not
fun.

Well, okay maybe its a little fun.

Thanks for the replies.

Bob the Newbie (not the other Bob)

(Bob) wrote in message . com...

Hello:

I have struggled to a point way beyond frustration to get a surface-
any surface dead-on flat. I have used the marking the high points
method and used every plane scrub, jack, jointer, smooth, scraper,
etc., No matter what I do I can't get it 100% flat. When I shine a
light behind my Starrett, it is always off by a few thou. Is there a
way to get a surface truly flat using hand planes and a scraper? It
almost seems impossible. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Bob
I prefer my MDF jaws on my newer vise to the maple jaws I
had on my POS Fox vise. MDF is PLENTY flat enough for a
vise. you are only talking 7-10 inches length. when
compressed, don't you think even IF they weren't PERFECTLY
flat, they would conform to the item in between the jaws?

for the sharpening plate I don't know what to tell you; I
use the scary sharp method to hone blades (sandpapers and
mylar films on top of a piece of ultra flat tile. Therefore
I don't know if MDF would be appropriate as a substrate for
pastes. I'd think it would deteriorate fast.

dave

Bob,
1/100 (.01) is closer to 1/128 (.0078) than it is to 1/64 (.0156). 1/64" is
hardly perceptible in wood working. The only way I can mark that close is
with a utility knife. 2/100 is a little larger than 1/64.
I don't work wood to .0078" tolerances. If you could, the change in moisture
content during the day would change it. I have some old (antique) calipers
that read to 1/32" that I use and I don't often work that close. The
confusion in converting decimal fractions to English units is why I don't
use my dial calipers. I want to plane my wood to 3/8", not .375", 7/16", not
..4375", and so on. . .
To me, using a feeler gage to measure flatness of a workbench is a little
retentive. I prefer to make things. :-)

"Bob" wrote in message
om...
Correction:

When I said a few thousands of an inch- I was reading the gauge wrong-
its actually a few hundreths. Does this change things?

Bob




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