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waz
 
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Default Buying a Flat - Insurance, Subsidence & Underpinning Questions/Concerns

We are in the process of buy a flat, which is in a converted house,
and about 100 years old. There are 4 flats in the block, with the
share of freehold split across them.

As there were 4 flats in the converted house, our surveyor said that a
full structural survey would be very expensive, and almost impossible
to complete, as access to all parts of the building would be
restricted therefore we opted for a homebuyer's survey.

The survey took place yesterday, and on speaking to the surveyor, some
issues have come about.

There are some fairly minor ones concerning missing roof tiles etc,
but the one which has made me very nervous about proceeding with the
purchase is the mention of an insurance claim which has just been
completed for the flat next door (which is in the same house) and the
hallway.

It relates to some cracking which started in the walls 2 1/2 years
ago, and the couple who live there put an insurance claim in.

The insurance company called in 3 separate structural engineers over
the course of the next 2 years, and monitored the cracks. They said
that underpinning was not required, and work on replacing/repairing
some interior walls and redecorating was required.

In the last 3 months, the claim went through, and all the work on the
next door flat and hallway has now been completed.

The reasons for the cracks appear to be:

- The house has clay foundations (as many London properties do in that
area), therefore hot weather over the past few years could have caused
it
- There was some shrubbery and a tree which have since been
treated/removed

Our surveyor said that the work was remedial work, and that it
required superficial work, such as replastering/painting etc, however
our flat was unaffected.

When he looked through our flat he noticed 2 hairline cracks which he
also said were superficial, and would just need a lick of paint, and
warned against insurance claims for such petty work, as it does not
look good on insurance record.

His only recommendation from the homebuyers survey was that we (the
block), stay with the same insurance company going forward, to prevent
any future insurance companies rejecting any future claim, and
claiming the damage occurred before the were the insurer.

He also said that as we are paying for the insurance through the
service charge, we should get a projection on future increases in the
insurance costs.

I asked if this work would jeopardize the lender underwriting the
loan, and he said it was "a storm in teacup, and not a problem"

Due to these insurance claim/recent ‘subsidence' my main concerns are
as follows:

- will this work/claim affect the price of the house, and its resale
potential
- What are the chances of this recurring
- What's the chances of the house requiring underpinning in future
(the surveyor said it's impossible to say, and this risk exist with
any house of this age in that area)
- If underpining/future work is required, how can we protect ourselves
against any costs

I also am considering getting a second opinion, or getting a surveyor
to go through the 3 structural engineering surveys which have take
place over the past 2 1/2 years - is this worthwhile?
  #2   Report Post  
Steve
 
Posts: n/a
Default Buying a Flat - Insurance, Subsidence & Underpinning Questions/Concerns

You've not posted to the right type of surveyors, but...

Buildings move - especially all those Victorian / Edwardian properties built
on London Clay. I personally would not bother with a second opinion. A few
hairline cracks are nothing to worry about, especially now that the tree has
been removed. If you went round every 100 year old property in London, you
would be hard pressed to find one without a few cracks in the walls.

--
Kind regards
Steve Bury

Bury Associates Limited
www.buryassociates.co.uk
T. 01905 26222
F. 01905 22555
"waz" wrote in message
om...
We are in the process of buy a flat, which is in a converted house,
and about 100 years old. There are 4 flats in the block, with the
share of freehold split across them.

As there were 4 flats in the converted house, our surveyor said that a
full structural survey would be very expensive, and almost impossible
to complete, as access to all parts of the building would be
restricted therefore we opted for a homebuyer's survey.

The survey took place yesterday, and on speaking to the surveyor, some
issues have come about.

There are some fairly minor ones concerning missing roof tiles etc,
but the one which has made me very nervous about proceeding with the
purchase is the mention of an insurance claim which has just been
completed for the flat next door (which is in the same house) and the
hallway.

It relates to some cracking which started in the walls 2 1/2 years
ago, and the couple who live there put an insurance claim in.

The insurance company called in 3 separate structural engineers over
the course of the next 2 years, and monitored the cracks. They said
that underpinning was not required, and work on replacing/repairing
some interior walls and redecorating was required.

In the last 3 months, the claim went through, and all the work on the
next door flat and hallway has now been completed.

The reasons for the cracks appear to be:

- The house has clay foundations (as many London properties do in that
area), therefore hot weather over the past few years could have caused
it
- There was some shrubbery and a tree which have since been
treated/removed

Our surveyor said that the work was remedial work, and that it
required superficial work, such as replastering/painting etc, however
our flat was unaffected.

When he looked through our flat he noticed 2 hairline cracks which he
also said were superficial, and would just need a lick of paint, and
warned against insurance claims for such petty work, as it does not
look good on insurance record.

His only recommendation from the homebuyers survey was that we (the
block), stay with the same insurance company going forward, to prevent
any future insurance companies rejecting any future claim, and
claiming the damage occurred before the were the insurer.

He also said that as we are paying for the insurance through the
service charge, we should get a projection on future increases in the
insurance costs.

I asked if this work would jeopardize the lender underwriting the
loan, and he said it was "a storm in teacup, and not a problem"

Due to these insurance claim/recent 'subsidence' my main concerns are
as follows:

- will this work/claim affect the price of the house, and its resale
potential
- What are the chances of this recurring
- What's the chances of the house requiring underpinning in future
(the surveyor said it's impossible to say, and this risk exist with
any house of this age in that area)
- If underpining/future work is required, how can we protect ourselves
against any costs

I also am considering getting a second opinion, or getting a surveyor
to go through the 3 structural engineering surveys which have take
place over the past 2 1/2 years - is this worthwhile?



  #3   Report Post  
Harry Ziman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Buying a Flat - Insurance, Subsidence & Underpinning Questions/Concerns

"waz" wrote in message
om...
We are in the process of buy a flat, which is in a converted house,
and about 100 years old. There are 4 flats in the block, with the
share of freehold split across them.

As there were 4 flats in the converted house, our surveyor said that a
full structural survey would be very expensive, and almost impossible
to complete, as access to all parts of the building would be
restricted therefore we opted for a homebuyer's survey.

The survey took place yesterday, and on speaking to the surveyor, some
issues have come about.

There are some fairly minor ones concerning missing roof tiles etc,
but the one which has made me very nervous about proceeding with the
purchase is the mention of an insurance claim which has just been
completed for the flat next door (which is in the same house) and the
hallway.

It relates to some cracking which started in the walls 2 1/2 years
ago, and the couple who live there put an insurance claim in.

The insurance company called in 3 separate structural engineers over
the course of the next 2 years, and monitored the cracks. They said
that underpinning was not required, and work on replacing/repairing
some interior walls and redecorating was required.

In the last 3 months, the claim went through, and all the work on the
next door flat and hallway has now been completed.

The reasons for the cracks appear to be:

- The house has clay foundations (as many London properties do in that
area), therefore hot weather over the past few years could have caused
it
- There was some shrubbery and a tree which have since been
treated/removed

Our surveyor said that the work was remedial work, and that it
required superficial work, such as replastering/painting etc, however
our flat was unaffected.

When he looked through our flat he noticed 2 hairline cracks which he
also said were superficial, and would just need a lick of paint, and
warned against insurance claims for such petty work, as it does not
look good on insurance record.

His only recommendation from the homebuyers survey was that we (the
block), stay with the same insurance company going forward, to prevent
any future insurance companies rejecting any future claim, and
claiming the damage occurred before the were the insurer.

He also said that as we are paying for the insurance through the
service charge, we should get a projection on future increases in the
insurance costs.

I asked if this work would jeopardize the lender underwriting the
loan, and he said it was "a storm in teacup, and not a problem"

Due to these insurance claim/recent 'subsidence' my main concerns are
as follows:

- will this work/claim affect the price of the house, and its resale
potential
- What are the chances of this recurring
- What's the chances of the house requiring underpinning in future
(the surveyor said it's impossible to say, and this risk exist with
any house of this age in that area)
- If underpining/future work is required, how can we protect ourselves
against any costs

I also am considering getting a second opinion, or getting a surveyor
to go through the 3 structural engineering surveys which have take
place over the past 2 1/2 years - is this worthwhile?


Victorian buildings were often built with scanty foundations and cracks are
not uncommon, even if only due to settlement.

The bit about the insurance company is very important in my opinion - you
could have problems if you decide to change. You may also find it difficult
getting insurance.

With regard to value/resale, talk to a valuer or an independent estate agent
if you know one you can trust, but follow your instincrs at the end of the
day. You do not have to buy this flat if you don't want to.

In any event you have should wait to see the written report, but it sounds
as if the cracks are only superficial - certainly at the hairline stage
nobody would worry and all the studies next door suggest that the property
has been properly investigated.

I am not a professional or amateur surveyor, but hope these remarks are of
use!


  #4   Report Post  
John
 
Posts: n/a
Default Buying a Flat - Insurance, Subsidence & Underpinning Questions/Concerns


"Harry Ziman" hziman at clara dot co dot uk wrote in message
...
"waz" wrote in message
om...
We are in the process of buy a flat, which is in a converted house,
and about 100 years old. There are 4 flats in the block, with the
share of freehold split across them.

As there were 4 flats in the converted house, our surveyor said that a
full structural survey would be very expensive, and almost impossible
to complete, as access to all parts of the building would be
restricted therefore we opted for a homebuyer's survey.


SNIP

..

The bit about the insurance company is very important in my opinion - you
could have problems if you decide to change. You may also find it

difficult
getting insurance.

With regard to value/resale, talk to a valuer or an independent estate

agent
if you know one you can trust, but follow your instincrs at the end of

the
day. You do not have to buy this flat if you don't want to.

In any event you have should wait to see the written report, but it sounds
as if the cracks are only superficial - certainly at the hairline stage
nobody would worry and all the studies next door suggest that the property
has been properly investigated.

I am not a professional or amateur surveyor, but hope these remarks are of
use!


It may not be a bad idea to ask another insurance company if they would take
on the risk of the property to assess the potential problems which "may"
happen in the future. If they won't give cover then you would be well
advised to walk away now.


  #5   Report Post  
big al - Peoples Pal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Buying a Flat - Insurance, Subsidence & Underpinning Questions/Concerns


"John" wrote in message
...

"Harry Ziman" hziman at clara dot co dot uk wrote in message
...
"waz" wrote in message
om...
We are in the process of buy a flat, which is in a converted house,
and about 100 years old. There are 4 flats in the block, with the
share of freehold split across them.

As there were 4 flats in the converted house, our surveyor said that a
full structural survey would be very expensive, and almost impossible
to complete, as access to all parts of the building would be
restricted therefore we opted for a homebuyer's survey.


SNIP

.

The bit about the insurance company is very important in my opinion -

you
could have problems if you decide to change. You may also find it

difficult
getting insurance.

With regard to value/resale, talk to a valuer or an independent estate

agent
if you know one you can trust, but follow your instincrs at the end of

the
day. You do not have to buy this flat if you don't want to.

In any event you have should wait to see the written report, but it

sounds
as if the cracks are only superficial - certainly at the hairline stage
nobody would worry and all the studies next door suggest that the

property
has been properly investigated.

I am not a professional or amateur surveyor, but hope these remarks are

of
use!


It may not be a bad idea to ask another insurance company if they would

take
on the risk of the property to assess the potential problems which "may"
happen in the future. If they won't give cover then you would be well
advised to walk away now.


All surveyors cover their arses, if they are anything like the ones I've had
dealings with, so if this surveyor is saying in his report that they are
superficial, then I'd be more than happy to believe that he was telling the
truth.

The professionals (including local authority searches) I was involved with
gave so many caveats against this and that, I'm surprised anyone buys a
house, a potential site of contaminated industrial land turned a former
village blacksmiths shop, remedial bracing to our roof was seen as a
negative, even with supporting documentation and building control approval
and yes it was fine (even if the structural surveyor said that while
covering his back against litigation).

If your mortgage company is happy to lend to you, then I wouldn't be
worried, they baulk at giving money to problem properties.
--
Big Al


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