"DGDevin" wrote in message
...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


Well now days with most every thing charged on the credit card it is easy
to charge the customer again if they don't rreturn the defective part.
That is how most deal with insuring a legitimate claim.

So the customer disputes the charge and his credit card company will side
with him unless the merchant can convince them the customer pulled a fast
one. Not only does the customer get his money back, the merchant pays a
service fee for the disputed charge if they can't show they're in the
right.


You cannot charge the customer's CC "after the fact" just because you happen
to have his number. You can, however, take the CC info with the stipulation
that it will be charged if the return merchandise is not received in X days.
I've done that a few times for expedited service.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:26:43 -0500, "Leon" wrote:


"DGDevin" wrote in message
...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I am going to start off with the fact that I like Lee Valley. I do
however agree that 2 weeks turn around is not good service especially
when the service to begin with, receiving a dinged tool, is a wash even
if you get the replacement next day. Good service is making sure your
customer does not have to call you back about a damaged part.

Way back when I worked for a company with a mail order division the policy
was the replacement shipped when the returned item was received and found
to be a legitimate return. Sad to say, but the company had learned the
hard way that there are just enough unscrupulous customers who wouldn't
return the supposedly defective item, or would return something that had
clearly been damaged by their hand, that it was unwise to ship a
replacement on trust. I recall other tricks, like returning an item
actually purchased from another supplier, or removing a desired accessory
and shipping back everything else, or in effect renting various tools to
try them out and returning them on some feeble excuse (the same guy doing
it over and over). It's the old story of the bad apples making it less
pleasant for everyone else.

Well now days with most every thing charged on the credit card it is easy to
charge the customer again if they don't rreturn the defective part. That is
how most deal with insuring a legitimate claim.

Some of the companies I've dealt with will cross-ship parts, with the
agreement that if they don't receive the defective part within a certain
period they'll charge the CC. Sometimes they'll take the CC number up-front
(if they don't already have it).

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:35:25 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote:

On 03/21/2011 06:24 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
I am going to start off with the fact that I like Lee Valley. I do
however agree that 2 weeks turn around is not good service especially
when the service to begin with, receiving a dinged tool, is a wash even
if you get the replacement next day. Good service is making sure your
customer does not have to call you back about a damaged part.

Honestly, that's sounds a little screwy, especially for Lee Valley. A
Starrett carbide scriber I bought almost a year ago from them, broke about
1/8" of the tip off. Contacting LV, they immediately sent me a replacement
with instructions to send the defective one back in the same box with
included postage paid return label attached.

I'd suspect that the delay might well be attributed to our vaunted postal
delivery system. Compared to what you guys have in the US with really fast
delivery times, our Canadian system is mired some place back many decades.
Yes, the order was regular delivery schedule, but the cost for overnight
or rush type delivery is exorbitant under the Canadian postal service. One
thing people can do with shipped orders from Lee Valley is get the
tracking number from their online account info page and then track it
through the post office.

I think our postal system is faster because it has less to deliver and the
same amount of people. Cheaper for over night because they are trained to
loose money.
On line tracking? LOL. That gets updated for the first time about 1 day
after you receive the package.

I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of our illustrious
gubmints?

Half of the FedEx stuff is delivered by the USPS, here.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:43:45 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


wrote

The most successful mail-order businesses ship the same day. I got an
order from McMaster-Carr within 48 hours (8:00PM Monday to Wednesday's
mail)
of placing the online order.

That would be an exception for me. McMaster delivery is next day if I have
the order in by 5. The rare exception is if the item has to ship from
another location. Our shipments come out of Chelmsford, MA.

Don't remember where the order came out of, but it came US Mail, which adds to
my amazement. ;-)

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 04:33:54 -0500, "Upscale" wrote:


wrote in message
It's inexcusable to leave money on the table a second longer than
necessary,
IMO. The most successful mail-order businesses ship the same day. I got
an
order from McMaster-Carr within 48 hours (8:00PM Monday to Wednesday's
mail)
of placing the online order.

Again, you're talking about US postal and shipping service. It's really
expensive to get anything close to US service in the
Canadian market. In many ways, especially this one, we are not competitive.
Add to that border delays and tax concerns and you begin to see the problem.

But he said LV only shipped it the previous Thursday. They had it two weeks,
no?

"DGDevin" wrote in message
...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


Well now days with most every thing charged on the credit card it is easy
to charge the customer again if they don't rreturn the defective part.
That is how most deal with insuring a legitimate claim.

So the customer disputes the charge and his credit card company will side
with him unless the merchant can convince them the customer pulled a fast
one. Not only does the customer get his money back, the merchant pays a
service fee for the disputed charge if they can't show they're in the
right.


That is not an absolute, the merchant has equal chance of winning the
dispute. Been there, done that, both winning and loosing a dispute.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 06:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Mar 21, 5:33*am, "Upscale" wrote:
wrote in message
It's inexcusable to leave money on the table a second longer than
necessary,
IMO. *The most successful mail-order businesses ship the same day. *I got
an
order from McMaster-Carr within 48 hours (8:00PM Monday to Wednesday's
mail)
of placing the online order.

Again, you're talking about US postal and shipping service. It's really
expensive to get anything close to US service in the
Canadian market. In many ways, especially this one, we are not competitive.
Add to that border delays and tax concerns and you begin to see the problem.

Not that you were suggesting it, but FYI...Canada Post is not a
government owned corporation. As they own 90% of Purolator, which _is_
profitable, a lot of resources are focussed in that direction. A very
good friend of mine retired from his job at Canada Post a few years
ago. He was the Marketing Director. He made it clear that a lot of
work is being done to smooth the interface between USPS and CP. It is
of benefit to both countries that we can exchange goods as quickly as
possible.

That interface has been pretty seamless, IME, at least in this direction. I've
ordered a number of things from eBay-ers on that side of the borDER without
problems.

Americans forget that Canada is the largest trading partner the USA
has... unless you look at the EU as a single entity.

I helped. I have rather hefty investment in JessEm stuff. ;-)

Of course, if you throw the TSA in the mix..well all bets are off.
They have to fondle EVERY package...:-)

Um, did they fondle your package? Was it as good for you as it was for them?

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"DGDevin" wrote in message
...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


Well now days with most every thing charged on the credit card it is
easy to charge the customer again if they don't rreturn the defective
part. That is how most deal with insuring a legitimate claim.

So the customer disputes the charge and his credit card company will side
with him unless the merchant can convince them the customer pulled a fast
one. Not only does the customer get his money back, the merchant pays a
service fee for the disputed charge if they can't show they're in the
right.


You cannot charge the customer's CC "after the fact" just because you
happen to have his number. You can, however, take the CC info with the
stipulation that it will be charged if the return merchandise is not
received in X days. I've done that a few times for expedited service.
Most merchants will indicate that a new unit will be shipped out but unless
the defective unit is returned a charge will be made against his credit
card. Customer agrees or does not get the replacement. If it is legit,
there is no reason for the customer to disagree. Pretty common practice.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:26:43 -0500, "Leon" wrote:


"DGDevin" wrote in message
...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I am going to start off with the fact that I like Lee Valley. I do
however agree that 2 weeks turn around is not good service especially
when the service to begin with, receiving a dinged tool, is a wash even
if you get the replacement next day. Good service is making sure your
customer does not have to call you back about a damaged part.

Way back when I worked for a company with a mail order division the
policy
was the replacement shipped when the returned item was received and
found
to be a legitimate return. Sad to say, but the company had learned the
hard way that there are just enough unscrupulous customers who wouldn't
return the supposedly defective item, or would return something that had
clearly been damaged by their hand, that it was unwise to ship a
replacement on trust. I recall other tricks, like returning an item
actually purchased from another supplier, or removing a desired
accessory
and shipping back everything else, or in effect renting various tools to
try them out and returning them on some feeble excuse (the same guy
doing
it over and over). It's the old story of the bad apples making it less
pleasant for everyone else.

Well now days with most every thing charged on the credit card it is easy
to
charge the customer again if they don't rreturn the defective part. That
is
how most deal with insuring a legitimate claim.

Some of the companies I've dealt with will cross-ship parts, with the
agreement that if they don't receive the defective part within a certain
period they'll charge the CC. Sometimes they'll take the CC number
up-front
(if they don't already have it).

Yes, that is the practice I have seen for quite a few years, IIRC as far
back as 1988 in my case.

On 3/21/2011 1:35 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 03/21/2011 06:24 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
I am going to start off with the fact that I like Lee Valley. I do
however agree that 2 weeks turn around is not good service especially
when the service to begin with, receiving a dinged tool, is a wash even
if you get the replacement next day. Good service is making sure your
customer does not have to call you back about a damaged part.

Honestly, that's sounds a little screwy, especially for Lee Valley. A
Starrett carbide scriber I bought almost a year ago from them, broke
about
1/8" of the tip off. Contacting LV, they immediately sent me a
replacement
with instructions to send the defective one back in the same box with
included postage paid return label attached.

I'd suspect that the delay might well be attributed to our vaunted
postal
delivery system. Compared to what you guys have in the US with really
fast
delivery times, our Canadian system is mired some place back many
decades.
Yes, the order was regular delivery schedule, but the cost for overnight
or rush type delivery is exorbitant under the Canadian postal
service. One
thing people can do with shipped orders from Lee Valley is get the
tracking number from their online account info page and then track it
through the post office.

I think our postal system is faster because it has less to deliver and
the
same amount of people. Cheaper for over night because they are trained to
loose money.
On line tracking? LOL. That gets updated for the first time about 1 day
after you receive the package.

I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of
our illustrious gubmints?

They are now using UPS here in the states, must have got a better deal.
I have had no problems with any of there shipments. 2-3 days from NY
to Wis.

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of
our illustrious gubmints?

It may depend on package size and/or value. In the end, whoever the carrier
is, they're initially operating in Canada and that means it's going
somewhere at a fraction of the speed that's enjoyed in the US.

"Leon" wrote in message
...


So the customer disputes the charge and his credit card company will side
with him unless the merchant can convince them the customer pulled a fast
one. Not only does the customer get his money back, the merchant pays a
service fee for the disputed charge if they can't show they're in the
right.


That is not an absolute, the merchant has equal chance of winning the
dispute. Been there, done that, both winning and loosing a dispute.

In my experience the merchant needs backup (like UPS tracking) while the
customer usually gets by on his say-so. I've had bank employees tell me
they believe my story, they just can't accept it without evidence.

On 20/03/2011 10:38 PM, Bill wrote:
Steve Turner wrote:
On 3/20/2011 5:18 PM, DGDevin wrote:


wrote in message ...

It's inexcusable to leave money on the table a second longer than
necessary,
IMO. The most successful mail-order businesses ship the same day. I
got an
order from McMaster-Carr within 48 hours (8:00PM Monday to
Wednesday's mail)
of placing the online order. Same for New-Egg and Amazon (my drill
press took
six days (Tuesday to Monday - the trucker called Friday afternoon to
arrange
delivery, Monday).

Funny you should mention Newegg, I'd never order from them again.

I use Tiger Direct for most all of my computer and electronics purchases
and they've been great; I've never had a single complaint with their
service.


I've heard at least 2 people complain about the products they sell. As
if they might be selling "seconds" or something.

I've been dealing with Tiger Direct through the internet almost
exclusively for computer parts and equipment (I build custom computers
for others) for over six years and have never had a problem. In that
time I returned one mother-board that was 'duff' and had the replacement
in two days. Yes, they sell 'refurbished' equipment, as well as new. But
the refurbished equipment is identified as such and is heavily
discounted price wise.

Gil

wrote in message ...


Some of the companies I've dealt with will cross-ship parts, with the
agreement that if they don't receive the defective part within a certain
period they'll charge the CC. Sometimes they'll take the CC number
up-front
(if they don't already have it).

I've also had companies do rush shipping of replacements with a full charge
which is refunded to my card when they get the return, I don't mind that.

"Jim in Milwaukee" wrote in message
They are now using UPS here in the states, must have got a better deal. I
have had no problems with any of their shipments. 2-3 days from NY to Wis.

UPS eh? We have UPS too. United Polar Express. Our polar bears are the
fasted delivering bears around except when they stop to dine on a seal that
gets too close. The only downside is when the bears get to a customer's
front door to deliver their packages. For some reason, people won't open
their doors to sign for their deliveries. Well, that's not quite correct.
One person did open their door and then he disappeared. Authorities searched
far and wide with no resolution to the sudden disappearance. Only noticeable
thing that was different at the time was that the delivering polars bears
had a lot of gas and were burping frequently.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...


"Leon" wrote in message
...


So the customer disputes the charge and his credit card company will
side with him unless the merchant can convince them the customer pulled
a fast one. Not only does the customer get his money back, the merchant
pays a service fee for the disputed charge if they can't show they're in
the right.


That is not an absolute, the merchant has equal chance of winning the
dispute. Been there, done that, both winning and loosing a dispute.

In my experience the merchant needs backup (like UPS tracking) while the
customer usually gets by on his say-so. I've had bank employees tell me
they believe my story, they just can't accept it without evidence.

It is not unusual for a company to have a good solid reason for contesting a
charge protest or claim. Never ever have I had a situation where my word
over the telephone was enough. I have always had to additionally fill out a
claim form with all details and wait for an investigation for a "permanent"
credit. Typically I get an immediate and conditional reversal of charges
however that is not an absolute guarantee of a permanent reversal.

"Leon" wrote in message
credit. Typically I get an immediate and conditional reversal of charges
however that is not an absolute guarantee of a permanent reversal.

Hmmm. It's been the opposite with me. The two times I've contested a charge
on my Mastercard by filling out a claim form, I've waited up to a month for
the charge back to be credited to my account. At the time, Mastercard has
emailed me to say that the resolution is complete.

On 2011-03-21 14:35:25 -0400, Steve Turner said:

I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of
our illustrious gubmints?

The sholder plane I ordered Sunday was shipped Monday UPS ground and
arrived today. Yes, it was pressed into IMMEDIATE service.

Not too bad for free shipping, huh?

Steve wrote:

On 2011-03-21 14:35:25 -0400, Steve Turner said:

I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of
our illustrious gubmints?

The sholder plane I ordered Sunday was shipped Monday UPS ground and
arrived today. Yes, it was pressed into IMMEDIATE service.

Not too bad for free shipping, huh?
Well glad that free shipping tip came in handy.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

I thought Lee Valley used FedEx and not the postal service of either of our illustrious
gubmints?

--


they do... I requested that LV ship any order by UPS, and they were
happy to oblige. Gotta love them

shelly

I was ok with the turnaround time. I didn't call them to return it, I
just dropped it in the mail with their return slip.
I had it back 2 weeks 1 day. Not bad. If I had called it would be a
different story. I'm happy, they sent me a new blade, I am happy with
the quality of their merchandise and will use them again.

On 3/20/2011 1:43 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
I just bought a LV low angle Jack Plane and 2 blades. I already had a
jack, but I needed a high angle for some tough figure. The low angle
Jack fit the bill, since I can easily change blades...
One of them came in dinged. I didn't feel like sharpening the O2 that
far in... the ding was extensive. So I sent it back for an exchange.
Its 2 weeks already, so I sent an email yesterday and they said it
shipped Thursday. Good service. No shipping cost for the replacement.
That's good service. Most companies you pay the cost to ship it back.
That sucks big time, since it is costing you to cover their mistake or
lack of QC.

I will be ordering some things next week from LV... Good company, good
service. But like others, you pick and choose what you are willing to
pay for.

On 3/20/2011 5:36 AM, Bill wrote:
Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
It's interesting (to me at least) how they are offering a discount
while
not "cheapening their brand". They want you to get accustomed to those
high prices! ; )

Cheapening their brand could well cheapen their other outstanding
product.
That product is service. I'd estimate that out of all their products
I've
bought, I've returned 10-15% of their products for a full, unquestioned
refund. Whether it's the product's unsuitablity or just my change of
heart,
I've never had any type of argument or hint of refusal to return
something.
Be it three weeks or three months, it's all the same. That type of
customer
service costs money and time, a type of service many other companies
toss
by the wayside. Id much rather pay the expense of that type of service
and
received immediate, unquestioned response than benefit from the
occasional
'cheapening' of their brand.


Not me. I buy my cars used from auto dealerships, and that mean "As-Is,
Where-Is", without even a warrantee of fitness for any purpose. I'd
rather buy products from Lee Valley or Lie Nielson on similar terms, and
avoid the costs associated with being an "expensive customer" to
service. Unfortunately, expensive customers (and I have known some)
raise the prices for everyone.

Bill