I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
include the access port to the attic and the garage door).

Comments are welcome (of course). You know who you are who have taught
me a thing or three. Thank you!

Bill

Bill wrote in :

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew
this was a 2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why
I modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
include the access port to the attic and the garage door).

Comments are welcome (of course). You know who you are who have
taught me a thing or three. Thank you!

Bill


How far are the two doors? One thing I really wish I had in my garshop
was some form of switchable light near the back door so I could see to
get across to the front door. (Or simply get to the battery charger.)

I used some threaded inserts to make my vise removable. It doesn't get
moved much, but since it's at the end of my CMS stand I sometimes need
to take it out. If you wanted to do something similar, and make the
bench on the side mobile, you could possibly use it as an infeed or
outfeed table for the saw.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, Bill wrote:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Cool.


I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
end vise on 'er, wot?


I'm still working on the lighting situation (some things you can't see
include the access port to the attic and the garage door).

Looks a bit too dense right now if everything is proportional. Check
out daylight bulbs. They're much brighter and whiter than the standard
soft whites. You can get them from electrical distributors much more
cheaply than any other store.
Paint the walls, ceiling, and floor with an eggshell -pure- white and
it will double the available light, plus make it easier to find those
stray pieces of hardware which hit the floor with a "Pinnnnnnng! ting
ting tang bump tingtingting rattle."

--
If you're looking for the key to the Universe,
I've got some good news and some bad news.

The bad news: There is no key to the Universe.

The good news: It was never locked.
--Swami Beyondananda

On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, wrote:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Cool.


I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
end vise on 'er, wot?

I was trying to comply with NEC:

Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
greater.

Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
outward too.

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

Bill

How much actual space between table saw and the bench ???

Remember, long pieces require the same space coming and going.

If those panels on the floor are 4' in width, you have just over 8' to
start any sort of rip operation. Outfeed area always surprises people
in their design. Imagine ripping an entire sheet of plywood and how
much space that takes.

On 10/25/2010 1:20 AM, Bill wrote:
I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

In article ,
says...

On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, wrote:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Cool.


I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
end vise on 'er, wot?

I was trying to comply with NEC:

Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
greater.

Is it 30 inches from the right edge of the smaller panel to the door?
If so you're covered.

In any case, if the bench is movable it doesn't count as far as code
goes. The empty space has to pass inspection, not the space with all
portable furnishings in place. If you're putting a bank vault in front
of the panel that's another story, but a work bench that one person can
easily drag out of the way isn't any more of a code issue than sticking
your stool under the panel would be.

Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
outward too.

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

Bill

On 10/25/2010 11:08 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
How much actual space between table saw and the bench ???

Remember, long pieces require the same space coming and going.

If those panels on the floor are 4' in width, you have just over 8' to
start any sort of rip operation. Outfeed area always surprises people
in their design. Imagine ripping an entire sheet of plywood and how
much space that takes.

Yes, my thought there is that I will be able to push the saw forward
towards the garage door as much as I need to. Although I will make a
few cabinets, I'm not building a cabinet shop and I anticipate that the
number of full sheets that I need to rip will be quite modest. In fact,
I may find it easier to halve sheets with my circular saw. I'm looking
forward to (learning to do) the M-T work on these benches, work with my
router, etc. I don't think I have enough space to build very many big
items! Maybe somebody will ask me to build something for them
someday? I have made a few things, but I have never made a drawer
before. Building the benches ought to keep me off the streets for a
while... I may start with a small one for my bench grinder.

Bill


On 10/25/2010 1:20 AM, Bill wrote:
I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:49:45 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 8:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:20:12 -0400, wrote:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one ready
to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this was a
2nd bench.

If anyone is curious, here's a link.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Cool.


I feel like somethings may be "wrong" with the picture, but that's why I
modeled it--to help me think. As many of you already know, the
electrical is basically now a reality, though the outlets won't go up
until after I finish painting in the spring.

Long bench looks too close to shorter bench. Drag it left and put an
end vise on 'er, wot?

I was trying to comply with NEC:

Article 110.26(A)(2) - Specifies that the width of the working
space in front of the electrical equipment (my sub-panel) shall be the
width of the equipment or 30 in. (762 mm), whichever is
greater.

Not only that, but I believe the "workspace" needs to extends 36"
outward too.

OK, then turn the long bench out from the wall and have them parallel.


Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

--
If you're looking for the key to the Universe,
I've got some good news and some bad news.

The bad news: There is no key to the Universe.

The good news: It was never locked.
--Swami Beyondananda

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price (obviously!).

I need to read up on this (my bad).

Bill

On 10/25/10 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?


I switched my entire shop over to "Daylight" fluorescent tubes and it
made a world of difference in getting better color results. Not only
that, but I think it makes one more productive and helps one's overall
mental health.

Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
of the nice breeze.

FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
direct sunlight at high noon. If you're concerned with color matching
stains and such, go with one or the other and don't mix-n-match, so you
don't get different colors depending on where you are in your shop. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
of the nice breeze.

Count me in. I like nice daylight too.

FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
direct sunlight at high noon.

Hmmm... so 5000k is brighter than 6000k. That's counter-intuitive, I
need to do my homework (on it). Thank you!

Bill

On 10/25/10 6:11 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

Regular fluorescent tubes are so green and nasty in color and IMO, are a
real strain on your eyes. The Daylight tubes cast such a wonderful
tone... they just brighten everything up, literally and figuratively.
Think about it... everyone likes to be outside and it's not just because
of the nice breeze.

Count me in. I like nice daylight too.

FWIW, the Daylight lamps are up around 6000k and are a little more light
natural morning or overcast light, which I prefer. 5000k is more like
direct sunlight at high noon.

Hmmm... so 5000k is brighter than 6000k. That's counter-intuitive, I
need to do my homework (on it). Thank you!

Bill


No, no... it's not brighter, it's bluer.
That scale is not a measurement of brightness, it's a measurement of
color.
The higher the number, the more blue, the lower the number, the more red.

google: color temperature


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I prefer the SP-6500 bulbs. Easy to get, most hardware stores (HD included)
and cheap as the ugly ones.

The 6500K bulbs are a little purple looking for the first few days and then
it disappears as the colour warms slightly.

The fluorescent tubes don't seem to be as blue and weak (thin?) as the CFLs
rated in the same temperature.



"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
No, no... it's not brighter, it's bluer.
That scale is not a measurement of brightness, it's a measurement of
color.
The higher the number, the more blue, the lower the number, the more red.

google: color temperature

Someone asked what the benches would look like end-to-end.
Well, I was curious, and here ya go.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I explained to my wife it was "his & hers", but she didn't buy it.

BTW, this is sort of a subtle advertisement for Google's currently free
SketchUp program. Admittedly, I have about $100 into SU-related books.
The title, "Automatic SketchUp" arrived in the mail today. I was able
to read the first 3 chapters online for free. But, if you are not a
programmer, then you probably don't want that book.

BTW2, I should mention that I sweated very little and incurred no
splinters or strained extremities in quickly moving the benches around
by myself. I didn't even have to get up from my seat in my den. : )

Bill

On 2010-10-25 16:07:36 -0400, Bill said:

I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price
(obviously!).

The Indy Habitat for Humanity surplus store had a whole slew of T-5
fixtures (w/bulbs), new, in-box, when I was in there a month of so ago.
Don't remember the pricing, but it didn't strike me as much more the
the bare-nekkid flourescent fixtures at Lowes.

These had grating over the bulbs, which might be a asset in a shop.

On 2010-10-25 01:20:12 -0400, Bill said:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this
was a 2nd bench.

You really don't need a second bench just for a machinist's vice. Just
take a board the same depth as the jaws on your wood vice, screw & glue
a second board perpendicular to the first, and mount your metalworking
vice to the second (i.e., horizontal) board. Don't need to use the
metal vice? Unclamp it and stow it away.

Now, perhaps you're using the "need" for this extra vice to justify a
second workbench to someone (does your wife pay the bills?), in which
case, never mind.

Steve wrote:
On 2010-10-25 01:20:12 -0400, Bill said:

I updated my SketchUp vision of my workshop tonight to include
two workbenches. I grew up using a machinist's vise and I have one
ready to install. The main point I was thinking about when I drew this
was a 2nd bench.

You really don't need a second bench just for a machinist's vice. Just
take a board the same depth as the jaws on your wood vice, screw & glue
a second board perpendicular to the first, and mount your metalworking
vice to the second (i.e., horizontal) board. Don't need to use the metal
vice? Unclamp it and stow it away.

I don't think you grasp the degree of abuse that my metalworking vise is
likely to incur. -MIKE- relies on the tranquility of sunshine, I rely on
the tranquility of sunshine and a hammer! : ) Screw and glue a second
board perpendicular to the first, ha! ; )

Bill

On 10/25/10 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
I don't think you grasp the degree of abuse that my metalworking vise is
likely to incur. -MIKE- relies on the tranquility of sunshine, I rely on
the tranquility of sunshine and a hammer! : ) Screw and glue a second
board perpendicular to the first, ha! ; )

Bill


haha.
I, too, know what a good sledge hammer or splitting wedge can do for the
soul.
I'm one of those guys who actually loves spitting logs into firewood.
Good for my soul, not so good for my back.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store. You'll either love or hate the
color. It's not amber, it's more of a bluish white, but it's my
favorite. I found that the 13W 5000k 880 lumen bulbs appeared almost
as bright as the 23W 2,700k 1,600 lumen CFLs I bought. It blew me
away. I'm using a 5000k CFL in task lighting in the shop now, and it
looks great, much better than the cool white. (I wouldn't own soft or
warm white bulbs, the ****-brindle things.)

If you stain (Blech!) wood, you'll want several different light source
types to check your damage, I mean "work", with. What looks good
under your fluor lighting can look like crap under incandescents in
the home. Keep some halogen task lighting handy in the shop, too.


(2 source, I haven't shopped either yet)

http://1000bulbs.com/product/6460/F-40T12D50.html
2,200 lumens, T12, 5000k
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page...trum/F32T8-750
2,800 lumens, T8

Tube brightness varies, even from the same mfgr. Check specs!


Also, be sure to buy low-temp (if you're in cold country) electronic
ballasts. I bought some cheap ones which ate bulbs like candy (24 in
3 years in 4 fixtures.) I switched bulbs and am getting a whole lot
longer life from them. I should have paid more money for good fixtures
and moved to T8 when I had the chance. Lesson learned. Once I run
out of this case of bulbs, I'll most probably be switching to better
(and T8) fixtures.


I'm assuming that T-8 is the best choice, but have not decided whether
to go with the 4-bulb or 2-bulb (4 foot) fixtures. What factors do you
think should affect my choice concerning this, besides price (obviously!).

I prefer a couple more 2-tubes than fewer 4-tubes due to the more even
spread of the light. You still end up with fewer tubes altogether.
My 20x24' 2-car shop has 4 2-tube T12 fixtures with cool-white bulbs
right now. It was much brighter when I had fresh white paint and
didn't have the extra 8 tons of crap on the floor (and everywhere
else), but it's well-lit now, even with that. Some day, I'll have
more than a 4' wide deer path when I navigate my shop. sigh


I need to read up on this (my bad).

Good man. Always research before buying! Ask, research heavily, ask
again with your findings to confirm, and only then make your decision.


While I have your attention, I should bring up 3 disparate things you
won't believe ever got together to party: Roy Underhill, a southern
fried chicken leg, and a SawStop 'lectric saur. http://fwd4.me/jsi


--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store.

:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::


I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?

Bill

In article ,
says...

On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store.

:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::


I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?

By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
some pictures)?

If so, the standard sizes are 22 watt 8 inch diameter, 32 watt 12 inch,
and 40 watt 16 inch--they're sized so that a fixture can be made that
takes the three bulbs nested together. There are also some oddballs
that have two tubes in one unit and the like but they're relatively
rare.

40 watt circline fixtures are rare--they aren't enough smaller than a
2x20w straight tube fixture to be worthwhile.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:36:10 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store.

:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::


I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?

Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
far.

What do you mean by "wrap around"? Frosted covers? I'd suggest bare
lamps since the frosted covers take away too much of the light.

On second thought, you might like the style with the grates on the
front if you're considering hitting them all the time with your
project pieces.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On 10/26/10 6:01 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
far.


I'll second that.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Puckdropper wrote:

I used some threaded inserts to make my vise removable. It doesn't get
moved much, but since it's at the end of my CMS stand I sometimes need
to take it out. If you wanted to do something similar, and make the
bench on the side mobile, you could possibly use it as an infeed or
outfeed table for the saw.

Puckdropper

Thank you for your comment. The idea of using benches as an outfeed
table crossed my mind too. The TS I am considering is 40" and
independent of that I decided that 40" was an ideal height for my bench
(based on a mock-up setup of cardboard boxes with a plane in my hands).
So with a mobile base on the TS, that will leave me just a few inches
to compensate for, and in the right direction too! I got lucky on that
one, but I'm not sure it will be so easy to move the benches around.

Bill

-MIKE- wrote:
On 10/26/10 6:01 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Home Depot? Whatever you do, do NOT buy anything from a brand called
Lights of America. It's worse than trash in every experience I've had
with them for myself, my family, and my friends. Trash 12/Quality 0 so
far.


I'll second that.

I think that's about the only brand of fluorescent lighting they sell at
Mennards. That's why I visited Home Depot! : )

Here's the point of view I've acquired about my BORGS:

Mennards--priced best.
Home Depot -- 10% higher
Lowes --20% higher.

The Home Depot people seem to try the hardest. But the Home Depot
drywall knives were crappy even at $10.49 ("insta-rust"). I like the
ones I got from Lowes. One thing I like about my location is I can visit
all 3 stores in about an hour. One thing I don't like about it is that I
don't have weather like Lew has.

Bill

J. Clarke wrote:
In ,
says...

On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store.

:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::


I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?

By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
some pictures)?


This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...mar ketID=276

In article , says...

J. Clarke wrote:
In ,
says...

On 10/26/2010 12:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:07:36 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/25/2010 3:09 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you for your paint (color) and lighting suggestions. I'm going to
follow them, except I'm not planning to paint the floor white, at least
not yet.

You're welcome. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference.

Larry,

Someone mentioned (in another thread) that the 5000K bulbs were good,
and then I read somewhere else that they don't produce as much
brightness. Do you agree that they are a good choice for a shop
environment?

Check them out at a lighting store.

:: Lots of useful stuff and a chicken wing snipped :::


I was looking at the "wrap around" style lights at Home Depot.
They were 32W units. Then when I looked at the bulbs I thought I wanted
to use, they were 40W. It could be that the 40W were T-12, I don't
recall. They didn't have any 40W "wrap around" style light fixtures on
hand. Could you help me resolve my confusion about this?

By "wrap around" do you mean "circline" (google that and you'll find
some pictures)?


This is what I was looking at (Lithonia Lighting Square White Basket
2-Bulb 32 Watt T8 Wraparound Lens Ceiling Fixture)

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...mar ketID=276

Oh, that just takes a standard 4 foot T8 tube. My local HD has them in
a variety of colors--if you don't see them on the shelf then scream
bloody Hell at the manager.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
Fluorescent Light

http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-...ent-work-light

The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."

Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
to diffuse the light?

Thanks,
Bill

On 2010-10-26 20:09:57 -0400, Bill said:

Mennards--priced best.
Home Depot -- 10% higher
Lowes --20% higher.

Menard's is a more-depressing place to shop that Walmart. And filthy --
even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.

Bill wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
Fluorescent Light

http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-...ent-work-light


The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."

Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
to diffuse the light?

Thanks,
Bill

It seems strange to me that the description indicates that the color
temperature is 3500K when it doesn't even come with bulbs.

The description indicates that it has a "magnetic ballast". Is that
something that should concern me (I thought I was advised to seach for
an electronic ballast). Do you think this one is okay for cool
temperatures?

Thanks,
Bill

Steve wrote:
On 2010-10-26 20:09:57 -0400, Bill said:

Mennards--priced best.
Home Depot -- 10% higher
Lowes --20% higher.

Menard's is a more-depressing place to shop than Walmart.

What makes you say that? I might agree that it is less
color-coordinated or thematic than the other 2 stores I named.


And filthy --
even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.


I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
What did you see that upset you?

My criticism of the store would be that some of the salespeople know
what they are talking about and some of the rest of them fake it--and
sometimes you don't find out until you get home which sort "helped" you.

Bill

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:54:33 -0400, Bill wrote:

Bill wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Better choice for a shopLithonia Lighting 2-Light Flush-Mount Industrial
Fluorescent Light

http://milo.com/lithonia-lighting-4-...ent-work-light


The description says: "This light is ideal for areas requiring
low-to-medium light levels including utility rooms and storage areas."

Does the description indicate it's suitable for "low-to-medium light
levels", rather than "high" light levels because it lacks a lens/cover
to diffuse the light?

It was probably the 4' length which prompted that statement. While
covers do diffuse light, they also absorb and diminish it. Forget the
Borgs and shop at a lighting/electrical distributor such as Platt.
Prices might be ten bucks higher, but you'll get much higher quality.


It seems strange to me that the description indicates that the color
temperature is 3500K when it doesn't even come with bulbs.

The description indicates that it has a "magnetic ballast". Is that
something that should concern me (I thought I was advised to seach for
an electronic ballast). Do you think this one is okay for cool
temperatures?

If it doesn't indicate a temperature range, it's likely NOT good for
freezing temps. The magnetic ballast raised my fur, too.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

Bill wrote:
I've already installed a
new switch on the wall, and have 12-2 running through the switch with
plenty up in the attic just for this application.

Planning four T8-32W 2-bulb fixtures running in parallel from 1 hot
through a switch.

Anything inherently wrong with this model? Strobe effect?

I'm going to try shopping for lighting in some places besides BORGS.

Thanks,
Bill

On 2010-10-27 01:23:47 -0400, Bill said:

And filthy --
even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.


I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
What did you see that upset you?

Perhaps you're shopping at a better class of Menard's store -- my most
recent expereince was W 38 & I-465... When I first moved to Indy 35
years ago*, I lived just a couple blocks from there. Guess you could
say the area has declined somewhat.

*Damn! where does the time go?

Steve wrote:
On 2010-10-27 01:23:47 -0400, Bill said:

And filthy --
even for a hardware store-cum-lumberyard.


I don't remember seeing anything there that made me feel that way.
What did you see that upset you?

Perhaps you're shopping at a better class of Menard's store -- my most
recent expereince was W 38 & I-465... When I first moved to Indy 35
years ago*, I lived just a couple blocks from there. Guess you could say
the area has declined somewhat.

*Damn! where does the time go?

The Menards I usually go to is in Greenwood. It's only a mile or two
from there to Home Depot and Meijers, so they are probably reminded that
they have competition. I've just been in that part of town for a year
and a half; 12 years in IN.

Bill

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:23:07 -0400, Bill wrote:

Bill wrote:
I've already installed a
new switch on the wall, and have 12-2 running through the switch with
plenty up in the attic just for this application.

Planning four T8-32W 2-bulb fixtures running in parallel from 1 hot
through a switch.

Anything inherently wrong with this model?

Nope. The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
(9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.


Strobe effect?

If you notice a strobe effect (highly doubtful and extremely RPM
dependent) just add an incan task lamp there.


I'm going to try shopping for lighting in some places besides BORGS.

Bueno idea, señor Bill.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
(9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.

Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?

I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.

Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
possible with a 2' chain). I assume it's preferable to install a longer
cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges. Are the fixtures
generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?

Thanks,
Bill

On 10/28/10 12:29 PM, Bill wrote:
On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
(9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.

Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?

I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.

Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
possible with a 2' chain). I assume it's preferable to install a longer
cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges. Are the fixtures
generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?

Depends upon the fixture you buy, some have cords, some are designed for
direct wiring. I'd go with the chains and direct wire them, use BX
armoured cable and tie wrap it to the chain.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:29:30 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 10/28/2010 9:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
The nice thing about fluor fixtures is that you can move them
around and add more if necessary. Mine are on 2" chains from a higher,
(9') ceiling. If you get the style with the reflector, they can be
bent out some to allow a better distribution of the light in the
shop, too. Put them on a carpeted area and apply a forearm or
crepe-soled shoe and they uncurl pretty easily.

Hmmm..my ceiling are 9' too. I hadn't considered using chains. I assume
you mean chains that are 2 feet in length above?

They came with chains and metal grates, which I've bumped a couple
times. And that's two inches, not feet. They hug the ceiling.


I thought about it in my sleep, evidently. I woke and it occurred to me
hat the "best" way to power my fixtures may be to install two duplex
outlets on the perimeter of my attic, and plug them in there. That's
much like Lew suggested, except my wiring would be in the attic.

I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.


Assume that the 5' cords on the fixtures don't quite reach (especially
possible with a 2' chain).

It wouldn't have fit with 2', but the 2" hug keeps them out of my way
and gave me enough cord.


I assume it's preferable to install a longer
cord on the fixture than to use an extension cords. I'm not sure why I
believe this--except that certain pieces of machinery are recommended to
be powered directly (no plug). Of course, lighting amperages being very
small, this may be like comparing apples and oranges.

Yeah, just plug and play.


Are the fixtures
generally designed so that one can replace the cord (easily) with a
screwdriver (or would you use extension cords)?

Yes, cord replacement is a snap. Pair of pliers to remove the strain
relief, a couple wire nuts, and a ground screw.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On 10/28/2010 2:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I had a duplex pointing down from the ceiling, and there was a quad
box on top (filled with insulation, unfinished attic) to which I added
outlets. I knocked holes in the sheetrock and pulled the plugs for the
lights through, then sealed the holes. If I had it to do over, I'd
have added that quad beneath, facing the shop, and let the fixture
wiring show. Replacement would have been much easier in the future.

It's nice to get the benefit of the voice of experience.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is my finished ceiling. If I
install duplex outlets in the ceiling, they will necessarily be "cut in
box" variety that attach to the drywall, and I can see myself replacing
the ceiling within the next 10 years. I'll have to wait for the dust to
settle and see what I think. A few minutes ago, I was thinking,
excitedly, gosh I'm going to have Lights AND Electric. : ) Reminds me
of the kind of thinking that must have taken place in the early part of
the 20th century. Maybe I'll even have Plumbing someday! ; )

Thanks,
Bill