I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I will
be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the substrate.
The last counter was made from laminate and particle board substrate and the
partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am wondering what material
would be best for substrate, something that could hold up to the ocasional
saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,
second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended
green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad choice.

--
Greg O

"Greg O" wrote
My question is the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and
particle board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO
plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,

That would be my choice.


second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended
green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad
choice.

Agree, I'd not use it.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Greg O" wrote
My question is the substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and
particle board substrate and the partical board got wet and of course,
expanded. I am wondering what material would be best for substrate,
something that could hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO
plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,


Not sure where you are going to get your laminate.

I did mine a few years ago and found a Wilson Art distribution center in the
Boston area. They sold to the public and the prices and selection blew away
the big retail guys. They even sold the bevel edge for the front which made
it look real professional.

Just a thought

Larry C

On Apr 30, 12:09*am, "Greg O" wrote:
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I will
be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the substrate..
The last counter was made from laminate and particle board substrate and the
partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am wondering what material
would be best for substrate, something that could hold up to the ocasional
saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out of,
second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended
green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad choice.

--
Greg O

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops. http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro. Spend a few dollars and make sure they
seal all the exposed edges, like inside sink holes and tap holes and
all along the entire back. To get a good seam, if there's going to be
one, is not that easily done.
I would investigate solid surface, acrylic, non-DuPont Corian (too
expensive in most cases) like Meganite, LG and HiMacs.
Nothing to worry about substrates, you get to undermount your sink and
the surface is non-staining and can be refinished in case of damage
or scratches.
There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

There is such a thing as cabinet grade particle board.

It's not sold in lumber companies or home centers.
It doesn't die with water contact and should be covered
with laminate anyway.

Plywood is a bad idea because of warping.

I would look around for either solid surface or
factory made counter tops with rolled edges and
back splash.

Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
accomplish with typical home owner tools.

Long runs that require joining edges also requires special
router tools to do a professional job.

A cheap counter top is a bad move.(think water in your cabinets)

Greg O wrote:
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate.

On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy wrote:

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
others.

Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
can be *quite* expensive.

The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
"well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
money and learned a lot along the way".

There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
start to finish, depending on the complexity.

Then they haul off the old tops. You have a nice job, the sink hole
is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
is hook the plumbing back up.

Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
and ask for a recommended installer.

Robert

wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy wrote:

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
others.

Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
can be *quite* expensive.

The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
"well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
money and learned a lot along the way".

There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
start to finish, depending on the complexity.

Then they haul off the old tops. You have a nice job, the sink hole
is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
is hook the plumbing back up.

Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
and ask for a recommended installer.

Robert


The last two posters bring up a good point. How long is the job to last?
What I mean is, I did mine because we were going to redo the whole kitchen
and get some solid counter tops (insert recession here). So the job was to
last just a couple of years and I went on the cheap about 2 weeks before the
family holiday party - 4 years ago.

Get a few prices first.

Larry C

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 12:09 am, "Greg O" wrote:
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will
be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the substrate.
The last counter was made from laminate and particle board substrate and
the
partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am wondering what
material
would be best for substrate, something that could hold up to the ocasional
saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff they make road signs out
of,
second chice would be good old exterior grade plywood. someone recommended
green treated, but it is in a food prep area so that makes it a bad
choice.

--
Greg O

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops. http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Ummm, no thanks, I am doing it myself!
This is my forth venture into laminate in as many years. The stuff don't
scare me at all, and I refuse to pay someone 3 times the price of what I can
do it for myself. The top I am looking at replacing is "L" shaped, 92x42
inches across the backsplash., one 4x8 sheet of substrate, one 4x8 sheet of
Formica, the tools I have. One afternoon in the shop watching NASCAR and a
couple beers should do it. The whole she-bang should be less than $150. I
got one qoute already for $600!
Greg

"Larry C" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy wrote:

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
others.

Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
can be *quite* expensive.

The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
"well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
money and learned a lot along the way".

There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
start to finish, depending on the complexity.

Then they haul off the old tops. You have a nice job, the sink hole
is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
is hook the plumbing back up.

Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
and ask for a recommended installer.

Robert


The last two posters bring up a good point. How long is the job to last?
What I mean is, I did mine because we were going to redo the whole kitchen
and get some solid counter tops (insert recession here). So the job was
to last just a couple of years and I went on the cheap about 2 weeks
before the family holiday party - 4 years ago.

Get a few prices first.

Larry C

I got prices, no way! Too high! Like I said in my other post I have done
this before, just looking for recommendations for substrate. It ain't rocket
science!
As far as hauling of the old tops, we have a huge roll off dumpster at work
that just gobbles this stuff up!
I know about the quick kitchen fix, this is the second redo in 15 years. No
counter top the first time! I refuse to spend any more money on it than
necessary because it will get all torn out sooner than later! I will not put
good, high priced tops on these old cabinets as the whole works needs to go
away. When we finally do a gut job on the kitchen then I will look into
solid surface, maybe granite.
Greg

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
There is such a thing as cabinet grade particle board.

It's not sold in lumber companies or home centers.
It doesn't die with water contact and should be covered
with laminate anyway.

Plywood is a bad idea because of warping.

I would look around for either solid surface or
factory made counter tops with rolled edges and
back splash.

Be aware that a counter with a turn is difficult to
accomplish with typical home owner tools.

Long runs that require joining edges also requires special
router tools to do a professional job.

A cheap counter top is a bad move.(think water in your cabinets)

Greg O wrote:
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate.


Solid surface is out because of the cost.

Factory made is out because I don't want the seam in the coner of the "L".

That leaves me with custom, which I can do myself.

I have the tools!
Greg

"Greg O" wrote in message
...
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that could
hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior grade
plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep area
so that makes it a bad choice.

--
Greg O



Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY group
to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
ready made!
Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let the
pros do the work!
I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.

"confused!"

On Apr 30, 4:15*pm, "Greg O" wrote:
"Greg O" wrote in message

...

I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that could
hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior grade
plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep area
so that makes it a bad choice.

--
Greg O

Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY group
to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
ready made!
Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let the
pros do the work!
I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.

"confused!"

You asked for advice without detailed information. You got that.
Now go learn some manners.

"Greg O" writes:

"Greg O" wrote in message
...
I need to replace a counter top, on the cheap, but I want it to last! I
will be making my own, with some sort of lamiate. My question is the
substrate. The last counter was made from laminate and particle board
substrate and the partical board got wet and of course, expanded. I am
wondering what material would be best for substrate, something that could
hold up to the ocasional saoking. I was thinging MDO plywood, the stuff
they make road signs out of, second chice would be good old exterior grade
plywood. someone recommended green treated, but it is in a food prep area
so that makes it a bad choice.

--
Greg O



Reading the posts about this got to me a bit! I thought this was a DIY group
to some extent! Seems most of the posts want me to hire a pro, or order
ready made!
Maybe we all should put our tools away and just buy factory made, or let the
pros do the work!
I have the tools, I have the ability, I just wanted a recommendation for
substrate, not warnings about the degree of difficulty.

"confused!"



Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Larry C" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 7:25 am, Robatoy wrote:

Heeeey.. I know something about countertops.http://www.topworks.ca
DIY laminate jobs are not for the amateur, really. By the time you
select your substrate and buy your glue, trim-bits and so on, is it
really worth doing? Hire a pro.

Sometimes, there are certain tasks best left to the expertise of
others.

Back 35 years ago, we used to do it out of necessity. I still have
the laminate trimmers, the bits, guides, etc. from when I stopped
doing it 20 years ago. It isn't brain surgery, but the learning curve
can be *quite* expensive.

The results from a first time lamination project are rarely
acceptable. And I don't want anything in my house that I have to say
"well, that was the first time I had ever tried that, but I saved some
money and learned a lot along the way".

There are guys around who will charge a fair dollar for solid surface
work. Stay away from the snooty high-end guys.

I would think that at this time you could find someone that would be
happy to do a job that for a fair price. A guy that does this all day
long can turn out a kitchen in post form laminate in a few hours from
start to finish, depending on the complexity.

Then they haul off the old tops. You have a nice job, the sink hole
is in the right place, the edges are all finished correctly, you have
a happy spouse, and you are finished in one day. All you have to do
is hook the plumbing back up.

Call the laminate suppliers and the solid surface guys in your area
and ask for a recommended installer.

Robert


The last two posters bring up a good point. How long is the job to last?
What I mean is, I did mine because we were going to redo the whole
kitchen and get some solid counter tops (insert recession here). So the
job was to last just a couple of years and I went on the cheap about 2
weeks before the family holiday party - 4 years ago.

Get a few prices first.

Larry C

I got prices, no way! Too high! Like I said in my other post I have done
this before, just looking for recommendations for substrate. It ain't
rocket science!
As far as hauling of the old tops, we have a huge roll off dumpster at
work that just gobbles this stuff up!
I know about the quick kitchen fix, this is the second redo in 15 years.
No counter top the first time! I refuse to spend any more money on it than
necessary because it will get all torn out sooner than later! I will not
put good, high priced tops on these old cabinets as the whole works needs
to go away. When we finally do a gut job on the kitchen then I will look
into solid surface, maybe granite.
Greg


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

Max

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...



Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they want
to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit that they
are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the posts
tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a little cranky!
As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither hard, or expensive, at
least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
expensive, and difficult to do!
Greg

On Apr 30, 9:16*pm, "Greg O" wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

...



Many *of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. *They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience..

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they want
to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit that they
are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the posts
tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a little cranky!
As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither hard, or expensive, at
least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
expensive, and difficult to do!
Greg

With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

"Greg O" wrote

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
expensive, and difficult to do!
Greg
You have obviously figured us all out. That is why we spend so much time
bitching and whining with one another. Cause woodworking is just
so...o...o...o...o...o...oo HARD.

On Apr 30, 10:05*pm, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:
"Greg O" *wrote

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can be
expensive, and difficult to do!
Greg

You have obviously figured us all out. That is why we spend so much time
bitching and whining with one another. Cause woodworking is just
so...o...o...o...o...o...oo HARD.

Duh, I yum getting a HAMMAR, LEE!

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after all
the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just sell all
my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
everything I need done around the house!
Greg

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg
Maybe you can arrange to do this without whining and complaining incessantly
on this forum.

PULEEEEZE.

On Apr 30, 9:27*pm, "Greg O" wrote:

I am a little puzzled myself why you didn't just web search for an
answer and have it instantly.

And for the record smartass, you didn't announce you had slapped
plastic until a day later, well after your first two posts.

No one here knew we were dealing with such an experienced talent.
After all, since you apparently post as much as 10 -12 times a year
here, it seems incredible we didn't know your name when you posted.
THEN we would have known the talent we were responding to in our
posts.

As it was, I thought you were a serious homeowner type that was
looking for some help. You could have done all here that tried to
help a bit by showing your smarmy attitude up front; it is a give
away as to the type of person you are when you think ANYONE owes you
the time of day, much less any respect.

I honestly think the folks here responded to your seeming innocent
question the best way they knew how, not knowing your self proclaimed
level of expertise.

Had I but recognized the name, I would have replied: DAGS

That would have been the end of it. Next time I will.

And really, I don't think any cares what you do; call someone, do it
yourself, set yourself on fire, eat **** and die, it's all the same.

I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, Lee
in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. Do you think we have
some kind of secret referral net? I wish.

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after all
the valuable information you guys have provided, *think I will just sell all
my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
everything I need done around the house!
Greg

Wow. Now that could be a great solution. If that means you will quit
coming around here (since you will have no tools to try to learn how
to use) over and over to taunt folks, troll for responses and to make
an ass out of yourself, I think that is great.

Sell them all!

Go away!

Robert

wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:27 pm, "Greg O" wrote:

I am a little puzzled myself why you didn't just web search for an
answer and have it instantly.

And for the record smartass, you didn't announce you had slapped
plastic until a day later, well after your first two posts.

No one here knew we were dealing with such an experienced talent.
After all, since you apparently post as much as 10 -12 times a year
here, it seems incredible we didn't know your name when you posted.
THEN we would have known the talent we were responding to in our
posts.

As it was, I thought you were a serious homeowner type that was
looking for some help. You could have done all here that tried to
help a bit by showing your smarmy attitude up front; it is a give
away as to the type of person you are when you think ANYONE owes you
the time of day, much less any respect.

I honestly think the folks here responded to your seeming innocent
question the best way they knew how, not knowing your self proclaimed
level of expertise.

Had I but recognized the name, I would have replied: DAGS

That would have been the end of it. Next time I will.

And really, I don't think any cares what you do; call someone, do it
yourself, set yourself on fire, eat **** and die, it's all the same.

I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, Lee
in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. Do you think we have
some kind of secret referral net? I wish.

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all
the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just sell
all
my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional to do
everything I need done around the house!
Greg

Wow. Now that could be a great solution. If that means you will quit
coming around here (since you will have no tools to try to learn how
to use) over and over to taunt folks, troll for responses and to make
an ass out of yourself, I think that is great.

Sell them all!

Go away!

Robert

Thanks for the help!
Greg

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
too.

Tile? Solid surface? Pass.

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg


Where do you live? ;-)

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...
"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg


Where do you live? ;-)

Lew ihas already spoken for all my Kmart tools, the rest I will hang onto!
Greg

On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...



Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
that they are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
be expensive, and difficult to do!

After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it. And in them.
Their real issue seems to be that they seem to think that they are
obligated to provide warranty service on a product someone else
installed with no expectation of a warranty.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive,
(unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or
patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old
and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job.
If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
too.

Tile? Solid surface? Pass.

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.


Hmm. Would a thin layer of foam suffice?

Max (I'd rather break dishes than chip countertops)
ps: what's a "microway"? G

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg


You can laugh if you want to but I have considered the economics and with my
propensity to collect tools the financial wisdom says to sell the tools.

Max (ain't gonna happen)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
too.

Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great but
grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.

Tile? Solid surface? Pass.

On 5/01/10 12:01 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:23:41 -0700, Larry
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:07 -0600, the infamous "Max"
scrawled the following:


I have to vote (again) for tile. It's easy to install, inexpensive, (unless
you use some exotic type) durable, and available in many colors or patterns.
I installed mine over 3/4" (exterior glue) plywood. It is 24 years old and
I'm replacing it only because I'm doing a whole cabinet replacement job. If
you don't have a tile saw, you can rent one. Personally, I wouldn't even
consider anything else that's available.

And I wouldn't even consider tile for most uses. It's ice cold on the
hands, so it's uncomfortable to rest against while waiting for the
coffee to get done or the microway to tick off seconds. It also
actively reaches out to each and every glass and brittle plastic item
int he kitchen, vying for little pieces of each to be strewn around
the entire area. It's noisy and it can chip when we set tools on it,
too.

Tile is colder or harder than granite or concrete? IMO, tile is great but
grout is not, so no tile countertops for us.

Tile? Solid surface? Pass.

Exactly, I hate linoleum, we did our kitchen about ten years ago.
Granite counter, and about 4" of backsplash, tile from there up to the
cabinets, looks great, easy to clean, and no stains yet.

Granite was installed by a pro including sink cutout, they had a
template came with the new sink we purchesed, I did the sink install and
tile backsplash.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

Larry Jaques wrote:

I have to vote (again) for tile.
snip

Tile, especially grout, sucks.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

Larry Jaques wrote:

I have to vote (again) for tile.
snip

Tile, especially grout, sucks.

Lew

Is it the grout lines? They get dirty? I use either a contrasting color
(in the case of light colored tile) or a dark color with dark tile.
*And* I seal the grout with (silicone sensitive, hide your eyes) silicone.
Works for me.

Max

On May 1, 10:47*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:







"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
.. .

Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
that they are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
be expensive, and difficult to do!

After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.

Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
is flammable?
Cite please.
If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
that you talk out of your ass.

love,

Rob

On 5/01/10 1:35 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On May 1, 10:47 am, "J. wrote:
On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:







"Scott wrote in message
...

Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience.

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
that they are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
be expensive, and difficult to do!

After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.

Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
is flammable?
Cite please.
If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
that you talk out of your ass.

Rob, send it to Iceland, maybe they can get my granite counter top to go
up in flames. It just isn't going to happen in my kitchen.

My wife has tried.
;-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Apr 30, 11:58*pm, "
wrote:


I still haven't figured out how Rob in Canada, Lew in California, *Lee
in Texas, Ed up northeast way and all the other contributors would
benefit from you hiring someone to do your work. *Do you think we have
some kind of secret referral net? *I wish.


*I* wish. I'd keep you and others buried in work and in no time we'd
be having scotch and cigars on an head office balcony at the end of
each day. GregO can come and watch....once.

On May 1, 1:42*pm, FrozenNorth
wrote:
On 5/01/10 1:35 PM, Robatoy wrote:



On May 1, 10:47 am, "J. *wrote:
On 4/30/2010 9:16 PM, Greg O wrote:

"Scott *wrote in message
.. .

Many of the posters who responded "hire a pro" _are_ countertop
fabricators
and installers. They have a vested interest, and a bit of experience..

scott

I figured that out!
I see on other groups where the pros tell posters that what ever they
want to do is to difficult, hire a pro! To me it kind of stinks a bit
that they are trying to protect their job.

I suppose I came across as a smart ass, but geez, after most of the
posts tell me it is way to hard, or expensive for a DIY'er, I get a
little cranky! As far as I am concerned, setting laminate is neither
hard, or expensive, at least not compared to hiring it out!

Like I said, maybe we should all put our tools away, as woodworking can
be expensive, and difficult to do!

After hearing from the "pros" here how persnickety, fragile, and
flammable solid surface was, I lost all interest in it.

Somebody here stated that solid surface (quartz, granite, Corian-like)
is flammable?
Cite please.
If you can't cite (which I know you can't) it just proves once again
that you talk out of your ass.

Rob, send it to Iceland, maybe they can get my granite counter top to go
up in flames. *It just isn't going to happen in my kitchen.

My wife has tried.
;-)

--
Froz...

The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

Corian and -like products have high fire ratings which allow them to
be installed in the most demanding applications. People who actually
do their homework know this.
Granite is hard to light, LOL... even in Iceland they, at best, would
be able to melt it.. but burn? Naaa... that takes a bit more.

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

" Rumple Stiltskin" wrote in message
...
"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 9:16 pm, "Greg O" wrote:


With all that ability and knowledge, you couldn't figure out something
as simple as what substrate to use?

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a
professional to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg


Where do you live? ;-)

Lew ihas already spoken for all my Kmart tools, the rest I will hang onto!
Greg


Damn. I was hoping to score the trim router ...

We bought a upper scale house 30 years ago - it was a 747 pilot
house - he had some money. Nice and all - but the kitchen -

It was in tile. - tops and back sides. It was a total pain.

Pans don't sit still and glass dishes ride high on the edges and
skitter around.

My wife used kitchen towels and trivets with rubber feet.

Go to a synthetic material instead of top end before tiles.

Martin

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

I have to vote (again) for tile.
snip

Tile, especially grout, sucks.

Lew

"Max" wrote in message
...

I know what I can use, I was just looking for other opionions, but after
all the valuable information you guys have provided, think I will just
sell all my tools on a rumage sale this weekeend, and hire a professional
to do everything I need done around the house!
Greg


You can laugh if you want to but I have considered the economics and with
my propensity to collect tools the financial wisdom says to sell the
tools.

Max (ain't gonna happen)

True enough!
Nice thing about a well equiped shop is very often you can spend a bunch of
cash, and the weekend building something you could have bought for $50.
Greg

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...


Carpet on a countertop???
..


I never would have thought of that!
Greg