Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart

"Stuart Pearson" wrote in message
...
Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart


Not sure what you call it on your side of the pond but pegboard
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0502995&ucst=t
is a cheap template for holes on 1" centers.
Art

On 4/4/2010 3:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart

Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,180&p=40089

and have the CNC outfit drill the holes in your jig to ensure precise
spacing and straight holes.

I have _both_ setups, and much prefer the CNC for precision - but you
can have the precision and the re-usability _and_ save moneyif you have
the CNC folks drill six holes for you.

Use a piece of 1/4" drill rod or the shank end of a 1/4" drill in one of
the holes for registration.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/4/2010 4:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Both are overkill. The Veritas works a treat but it's a lot of money to
do a simple job and there's no need to use CNC to drill a few holes
unless you're like Morris and have the machine sitting there and like to
dink with it.

All you need is a shop made jig with four holes in it with the right
spacing. Carefully align and clamp your jig, drill the first two holes,
then put pegs in those and put the jig over the pegs, drill the next
two, put pegs in those, repeat, moving pegs as required.

As to how you make the jig, you don't say what tools you have. All
kinds of ways to make a jig--if you've got a drill press you do it one
way, if you've got a table saw you do it another, if you've got a router
table and an Incra jig you do it a third, if you've got a CNC machine
you do it a fourth. So whatcha got to work with?

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:15:01 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,180&p=40089

Hell, two of the desired size will do fine. Just keep registering the
hole you've just drilled to maintain accuracy. I bought a set of these
LV guides and they work great. Anything else other than some semi-pro
home set up is a waste of money.

If you are planning on doing this infrequently, I have several suggestions:

A. do as J Clarke suggested by making a 4 hole jig

B. If you have not selected your wood yet, check your building centre for
particle board / melamine panels that are pre-drilled. In my area the home
centres sell 16" wide, by 8' lengths that are pre-drilled for making book
cases.

C. If you still want to drill your holes in a custom manner, then I suggest
using a protractor or compass to mark repeatable distance marks on the 4
lines for the shelf holes. Determine how far from the front & back you want
the row of holes; lightly mark the 2 parallel lines on each side; determine
how far down from the top the holes should start - mark this onto all 4
lines; with the protractor / compass scribe the lines - using the
intersection as where to reset your protractor - repeat until all rows are
done; using a punch mark the holes better; drill each hole as appropriate
for your shelf pins.

D. As in C, but do this to a strip of plywood or aluminum or steel to make a
jig, then clamp it to your material and drill appropriately

E. read up on system 32 / European kitchen construction - they all show how
to drill those holes

F. look up books published by Danny Proulx -
http://www.cabinetmaking.com/pages/library.htm
He wrote several books on how to make cabinets and shows several methods
for marking the holes and making jigs.


The Veritas Jig is really cool, but overkill if you are making only one
shelf system.
And sending out to have the holes drilled will likely cost enough to take
the fun out of your own precision measure, mark and drill process

Hope this helps

"Stuart Pearson" wrote in message
...
Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am
currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I
am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on
a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 21:09:36 +0100, the infamous "Stuart Pearson"
scrawled the following:

Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...55&src=froogle and using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

You can save your $130 if you build one. Here's a freebie:
http://www.benchnotes.com/Shelf%20Ho...illing_jig.htm

Got pegboard?
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/ShelfPinHoles.php

Or buy a cheaper model:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5876 $25

http://fwd4.me/6wG $13

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

I will assume you can mark the location of the holes accurately, and your
concern is (as you did note): how to drill the holes accurately.

Use a brad point drill bit, of the right size for your shelf pins or
sleeves.
This type of drill bit has a sharp point to easily start your hole where you
want it to go.

Use a Drill Stop to limit the depth that you go so you do not blow through
the side.
Also, be careful to hold the drill steady and at a right angle to the board
being drilled.

Check this out: http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip021011wb.html
it is a drill stop and right angle helper.

Practice a few on a scrap bit of wood to make sure you have it right & are
comfortable doing it.


Matt

On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

http://fwd4.me/6wG $13


I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
done drilling with a simple one.

Spend the money on a good bit & stop system that don't stick or clog.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Apr 4, 4:15*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
On 4/4/2010 3:09 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:

Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.a...src=froogleand using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart

Let me offer yet another alternative - buy a half-dozen of these

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,180&p=40089

and have the CNC outfit drill the holes in your jig to ensure precise
spacing and straight holes.

I have _both_ setups, and much prefer the CNC for precision - but you
can have the precision and the re-usability _and_ save moneyif you have
the CNC folks drill six holes for you.

Use a piece of 1/4" drill rod or the shank end of a 1/4" drill in one of
the holes for registration.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris,

I haven't spent much time hanging out on this board, but I just
ran across your suggestion and decided to click on the link and check
it out. I had been struggling with the accuracy of my drilling for a
while and I am excited to try these out. I bought one of each, and
with shipping it was $22.00. Thanks so much for mentioning them as I
wouldn't have known about them otherwise.

Brian
Martelle, Iowa
ExtremelyAverage.com

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

http://fwd4.me/6wG $13


I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
done drilling with a simple one.

Spend the money on a good bit & stop system that don't stick or clog.


The Rockler jig comes with a brad poing vix type bit that is self clearing
and does not eat away at the jig.

On 4/5/2010 3:24 AM, ExtremelyAvg wrote:

I haven't spent much time hanging out on this board, but I just
ran across your suggestion and decided to click on the link and check
it out. I had been struggling with the accuracy of my drilling for a
while and I am excited to try these out. I bought one of each, and
with shipping it was $22.00. Thanks so much for mentioning them as I
wouldn't have known about them otherwise.

Brian...

It's always handy to know more "ways to skin a cat"...

AFAICT, they're the same bushings used in some of the doweling jigs and
if you want a gee-whiz custom drilling jig, you can screw the bushings
into an aluminum base with 1/2"-20 threads

With that kind of setup, you can share the bushings between multiple
jigs and not need to buy threaded inserts at all.

I'm such a cheapskate that I went out and bought the 1/2-20 tap.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On 4/5/10 7:57 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 4/4/10 11:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

http://fwd4.me/6wG $13


I use one very similar to that and it works perfectly.
By the time you set up some of the fancy, expensive ones, you could be
done drilling with a simple one.

Spend the money on a good bit& stop system that don't stick or clog.


The Rockler jig comes with a brad poing vix type bit that is self clearing
and does not eat away at the jig.


That's the same one I got from Woodcraft. Those bits are great, but
mine had trouble with clogging and the clog would make it stick in the
depressed position.

It got frustrating having to whack the thing every two or three holes to
clear the clog.
Maybe it was the plywood, maybe it was just a case getting what you paid
for, maybe they've improved the bits. Just FYI, for anyone looking into
it. Maybe buy it local, in you can, so you can return it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Apr 4, 1:09 pm, "Stuart Pearson" wrote:
Hi All

I am hoping someone may be able to give some insight, I wish to make some
fitted book selves. I intend to use pegs to support / adjust the shelves,
and I am concerned about how to drill the holes accurately. I am currently
considering two options, buying a jig like thishttp://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=788455&src=froogleand using
this or sending them to a local CNC routing company and having them do it.
As way of background I would say I am ok when it comes to woodwork but I am
certainly no cabinet maker. I am likely to build shelves again but not on a
regular basis. Any advice or alternative options would be appreciated.

Cheers
Stuart

Norm made one on The New Yankee Workshop. And CNC is a bit overkill.
You don't need that level of accuracy.
Phil Brown

"Morris Dovey" wrote

The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
wobble. ;-)

I use dado joints for my shelves. They don't wobble.

On Apr 6, 3:46*pm, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote

The overkill part is knowing in advance that none of the shelves will
wobble. ;-)

I use dado joints for my shelves. They don't wobble.

Not after the TiteBond-II sets, anyway.

On 4/6/2010 5:45 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:

That was my thoughts, the g code would take minutes to write and thus
would be very cheap particularly as a local company would of done them
in exchange for some repair work I did on a controller last year. Still
I have gone with a cheap jig and will keep that favor in the bank for
when cnc routing is a better fit.

The jig should do a passable job for you - and you shouldn't be misled
by my (smallish-minded) attempts to remind the Festool crowd that those
tools aren't the final word in speed, accuracy, and ease of use.

FWIW, I would expect that nearly all CNC routing shops already have a
code block to drill or rout holes on a parameter-controlled grid. Even
before my machine was delivered I had written that routine and another
to rout all the holes in Euro-style cabinets. I never made any kitchen
cabinets, but I've (re)used the grid-drilling code a fair amount. You
should probably revise their programming time to somewhere near zero.

Since you know enough to help them out with their controller, let me
encourage you to think about a project like

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/

Not only might you find something like fun to build and play with, but
it's a wonderful jig- and template-making tool.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 4/6/2010 5:45 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:

That was my thoughts, the g code would take minutes to write and thus
would be very cheap particularly as a local company would of done them
in exchange for some repair work I did on a controller last year. Still
I have gone with a cheap jig and will keep that favor in the bank for
when cnc routing is a better fit.

The jig should do a passable job for you - and you shouldn't be misled by
my (smallish-minded) attempts to remind the Festool crowd that those tools
aren't the final word in speed, accuracy, and ease of use.

FWIW, I would expect that nearly all CNC routing shops already have a code
block to drill or rout holes on a parameter-controlled grid. Even before
my machine was delivered I had written that routine and another to rout
all the holes in Euro-style cabinets. I never made any kitchen cabinets,
but I've (re)used the grid-drilling code a fair amount. You should
probably revise their programming time to somewhere near zero.

Since you know enough to help them out with their controller, let me
encourage you to think about a project like

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/

Not only might you find something like fun to build and play with, but
it's a wonderful jig- and template-making tool.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Now why did you have to go and suggest that, I was finally getting some of
my
projects completed and now you have given me the idea for a new one!

Must admit I have considered it before but is only with my recent house move
I have had the space and it does sound like a fun project. Nice site by the
way.

Cheers
Stuart

On 4/9/2010 2:06 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:

Now why did you have to go and suggest that, I was finally getting
some of my projects completed and now you have given me the idea for
a new one!

It's a good project to let simmer until winter, then stretch the design
work out until spring. It's not a big challenge so much as a collection
of tiny ones. At the end, the satisfaction from watching it work is all
out of proportion to the size of the machine and the work that went into
constructing it.

The most surprising part of the project for me was how much less
complicated the electronics were than I had imagined.

Must admit I have considered it before but is only with my recent
house move I have had the space and it does sound like a fun project.

If you decide to build one, you're invited to consider me a resource -
and if you have difficulty finding (or ordering) parts, I may be able to
help.

Nice site by the way.

Thanks - it's actual proof that if one can just take enough photos, at
least some few are bound to turn out as intended.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:43:39 -0500, the infamous Morris Dovey
scrawled the following:

On 4/9/2010 2:06 PM, Stuart Pearson wrote:
Nice site by the way.

Thanks - it's actual proof that if one can just take enough photos, at
least some few are bound to turn out as intended.

I ended up with 287 or so pics inside the Wildlife Safari in Winston,
OR that one morning I went. Digital cameras rule.

--
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace
will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will
blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.
-- John Muir