After thinking about the workbench I want to build for a while, I am leaning
towards using many facets of "Garrett Hack's Ultimate Workbench" (I first
saw it in the FWW, "Tools & Shops, annual issue", No. 209) as a guideline.
The publication has lots of details, but the following link contains a
picture at least.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-of-a-lifetime

Of course, I'm going with Lew's recipe for a SYP top. I'm ignoring Hack's
drawers, till, and other niceties, but I really like the look of the benches
foundation.

I find the base/feet especially attractive--though I'm not really sure how
to saw a semicircular-arc on the front and rear of the feet:
I was thinking it would be easier if I drilled a small hole/dimple at the
"center" of the circe having the semicircular-arc on its circumference--then
I could build a jig that would allow me to rotate the piece on my BS. Do
you think Hack did something like that?
I believe Hack uses double-tenons and pegged single-tenon joinery throughout
his bench (I better not be in a hurry, and I better practice...). He says
the bench is "rock solid".

I thought the base should be made of hard wood, but not sure what type.
Suggestions welcomed! I was just looking at a wood guide that Woodsmith
sent me, and it says "Yellow Pine is Hard" (wow, that comes as a surprise to
me!). Maybe SYP throughout? Other ideas?

Thank you,
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
After thinking about the workbench I want to build for a while, I am
leaning towards using many facets of "Garrett Hack's Ultimate Workbench"
(I first saw it in the FWW, "Tools & Shops, annual issue", No. 209) as a
guideline. The publication has lots of details, but the following link
contains a picture at least.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-of-a-lifetime

Of course, I'm going with Lew's recipe for a SYP top. I'm ignoring Hack's
drawers, till, and other niceties, but I really like the look of the
benches foundation.

I find the base/feet especially attractive--though I'm not really sure how
to saw a semicircular-arc on the front and rear of the feet:
I was thinking it would be easier if I drilled a small hole/dimple at the
"center" of the circe having the semicircular-arc on its
circumference--then I could build a jig that would allow me to rotate the
piece on my BS. Do you think Hack did something like that?
I believe Hack uses double-tenons and pegged single-tenon joinery
throughout his bench (I better not be in a hurry, and I better
practice...). He says the bench is "rock solid".

I thought the base should be made of hard wood, but not sure what type.
Suggestions welcomed! I was just looking at a wood guide that Woodsmith
sent me, and it says "Yellow Pine is Hard" (wow, that comes as a surprise
to me!). Maybe SYP throughout? Other ideas?

Thank you,
Bill


I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder than
poplar for instance.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Bill" wrote in message
...
After thinking about the workbench I want to build for a while, I am
leaning towards using many facets of "Garrett Hack's Ultimate Workbench"
(I first saw it in the FWW, "Tools & Shops, annual issue", No. 209) as a
guideline. The publication has lots of details, but the following link
contains a picture at least.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-of-a-lifetime

Of course, I'm going with Lew's recipe for a SYP top. I'm ignoring
Hack's drawers, till, and other niceties, but I really like the look of
the benches foundation.

I find the base/feet especially attractive--though I'm not really sure
how to saw a semicircular-arc on the front and rear of the feet:
I was thinking it would be easier if I drilled a small hole/dimple at the
"center" of the circe having the semicircular-arc on its
circumference--then I could build a jig that would allow me to rotate the
piece on my BS. Do you think Hack did something like that?
I believe Hack uses double-tenons and pegged single-tenon joinery
throughout his bench (I better not be in a hurry, and I better
practice...). He says the bench is "rock solid".

I thought the base should be made of hard wood, but not sure what type.
Suggestions welcomed! I was just looking at a wood guide that Woodsmith
sent me, and it says "Yellow Pine is Hard" (wow, that comes as a surprise
to me!). Maybe SYP throughout? Other ideas?

Thank you,
Bill


I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.

You don't like the feet on the bench I linked to above? His vertical
supports are each joined
with double T&M joinery. You must be in a hurry! ; )

Bill



But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the
whole thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than poplar for instance.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than poplar for instance.


The "index card" that Woodsmith sent me lists White Pine as soft and Yellow
Pine as hard. It just occurred to me: maybe they mean in the sense of
actually working the wood, rather than it's "botanical classification"!

Bill

On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:36:40 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder than
poplar for instance.

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:36:40 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the
whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than
poplar for instance.

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.


You really would like one of those? Better not try to plane on it...
And did you see the feet and legs? Oh, the humanity...




--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles
Darwin

"Bill" wrote in message
...

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-of-a-lifetime

I'm not really sure how
to saw a semicircular-arc on the front and rear of the feet:
I was thinking it would be easier if I drilled a small hole/dimple at the
"center" of the circe having the semicircular-arc on its
circumference--then I could build a jig that would allow me to rotate the
piece on my BS.


Okay, assume the problem is to "cut a 3.5" radius arc off the end of a 4 by
4 with a BS (note that 4 by 4s are actually about 3.5" by 3.5"). Assume 1/4"
blade--so the blade is a non-issue.

I tried using my noggin for about 20 minutes and here's what I came up with:

1) Hammer a 3+" nail though a suitably large piece of plywood and clamp that
to the BS table
with the nail vertical and about 3.5" to the right of the cutting edge of
the blade.
2) Hammer 1 or 2 small nails into the side vertically aligned, , and about
3.5" from the end of the 4 by 4.
(the hole left by these nails will not be visible in the project).

3) Now the 4 by 4 can be held and rotated with the meeting point of the
short nails and the workpiece
held flush against the long nail (and the supporting plywood underneath)
through the cut.

Please critique, if you will, my solution to the problem. This fixture/jig
surely represents some of the most out-of-the-box
thinking I have ever done in my brief experience in woodworking (I've a long
way to go, huh? : ) ).

Bill

Oh, please. *Just go get thehttp://fwd4.me/KBxand do the gloat,
damnit. *We can handle it. *

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Charles Darwin

Festool is having a sale from now until the end of May. I am
considering getting that table. But I don't think I would gloat
afterwards.

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 01:05:34 -0400, the infamous "Bill"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:36:40 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the
whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than
poplar for instance.

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.

You really would like one of those?

No, only if it were given to me. But the Festool Three would.


Better not try to plane on it...
And did you see the feet and legs? Oh, the humanity...

Piece of cake. Just plug in the planer over there and...
/silly Normite response I carry a #4 with me in the truck and used
it to touch up the mess the circ saw (dull blade, no spare with me)
made on ripping the tubasix PT board. My client helped by holding the
board steady. He was amazed at how quickly it took the ripple off and
put a radius on the top of the cut edge. He played with the shavings
for awhile afterward. That was fun to watch.

Vive le Galoot! Vive Satanley! Vive Roy Underhill!

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 03:07:37 -0400, the infamous "Bill"
scrawled the following:


"Bill" wrote in message
...

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-of-a-lifetime

I'm not really sure how
to saw a semicircular-arc on the front and rear of the feet:
I was thinking it would be easier if I drilled a small hole/dimple at the
"center" of the circe having the semicircular-arc on its
circumference--then I could build a jig that would allow me to rotate the
piece on my BS.


Okay, assume the problem is to "cut a 3.5" radius arc off the end of a 4 by
4 with a BS (note that 4 by 4s are actually about 3.5" by 3.5"). Assume 1/4"
blade--so the blade is a non-issue.

It'll be extremely dicey with an 8' tubafore and nigh onta impossible
with a 20' length. What's your length, Bill?

That kind of move is typically done with either a sabre saw or recip
saw. Occasionally it's done with a portable bandsaw. (HINT: This is a
_perfect_ time to go buy a new portable bandsaw, Bill.


I tried using my noggin for about 20 minutes and here's what I came up with:

1) Hammer a 3+" nail though a suitably large piece of plywood and clamp that
to the BS table

You misspelled "bolt that to the BS table"


with the nail vertical and about 3.5" to the right of the cutting edge of
the blade.
2) Hammer 1 or 2 small nails into the side vertically aligned, , and about
3.5" from the end of the 4 by 4.
(the hole left by these nails will not be visible in the project).

3) Now the 4 by 4 can be held and rotated with the meeting point of the
short nails and the workpiece
held flush against the long nail (and the supporting plywood underneath)
through the cut.

Please critique, if you will, my solution to the problem. This fixture/jig
surely represents some of the most out-of-the-box
thinking I have ever done in my brief experience in woodworking (I've a long
way to go, huh? : ) ).

It could work, and that is the ideal saw for smaller work of this
nature, but moving long sticks into a blade can get wonky in a hurry.

I ran 8' tubasixes through the bandsaw to build curves into my bridge
base. That was fun, but I had set up infeed and outfeed tables for
it. You'll need a similar suport for the fourbafour if you do it that
way. You didn't say how many of these you're doing.

No matter how you cut them, you'll have to sand the cut ends afterward
anyway. If you don't have short (3' or less) pieces to cut, it might
be safer to hand/sabre/recip saw the cuts and use a belt sandah on the
thing to do final shaping.

G'luck!

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...

It goes without saying, the router is in a table.


I'm glad you mentioned that--though it will be difficult to turn my back on
an idea which makes so much sense.
The technique you described has been printed and saved, maybe for use on
bench #2; surely for use somewhere.


Definitely not free hand work.

Lew


In answer to those that asked, there are four 4 by 4s, about 30"
long--hopefully not too unwieldy. If I start with one 36" long, I can
practice the cut! : )

Right after I posted the description of "my solution", it occurred to me
that rather than using "2 small nails", I should nail a small wooden block
to the side of the workpiece to leverage against. At first, I thought
"clamp a small wooden block", but reading the posts I better realize that 4
by 4s are not toys...

Bill

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Okay, assume the problem is to "cut a 3.5" radius arc off the end of a 4
by
4 with a BS (note that 4 by 4s are actually about 3.5" by 3.5"). Assume
1/4"
blade--so the blade is a non-issue.

It'll be extremely dicey with an 8' tubafore and nigh onta impossible
with a 20' length. What's your length, Bill?


Thanks for your replies, Larry, you provided several helpful comments that I
found quite insightful.

I just have two, 30" four-by-fours, seeking a quarter-circle on each end.
Like the feet in this workbench:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Proje....aspx?id=33067

Bill

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:40:50 -0400, the infamous "Bill"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
Okay, assume the problem is to "cut a 3.5" radius arc off the end of a 4
by
4 with a BS (note that 4 by 4s are actually about 3.5" by 3.5"). Assume
1/4"
blade--so the blade is a non-issue.

It'll be extremely dicey with an 8' tubafore and nigh onta impossible
with a 20' length. What's your length, Bill?


Thanks for your replies, Larry, you provided several helpful comments that I
found quite insightful.

Thanks and jewelcome.


I just have two, 30" four-by-fours, seeking a quarter-circle on each end.
Like the feet in this workbench:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Proje....aspx?id=33067

Yeah, easy enough on the bandsaw. You could pivot the piece on the
nail on your locator board instead of using extra nailsif you wanted.
That's what I'd probably do.

I cut these freehand, bottoms and ends. http://fwd4.me/6oE

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Like the feet in this workbench:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Proje....aspx?id=33067

Yeah, easy enough on the bandsaw. You could pivot the piece on the
nail on your locator board instead of using extra nailsif you wanted.
That's what I'd probably do.

I cut these freehand, bottoms and ends. http://fwd4.me/6oE


Nice. I like the "hollow" in the base between the ends of the feet.
Garrett Hack sketches a hollow
in his workbench diagram, but the feature does not appear in his actual
bench.

Intuitively, seems like stability would be easier to obtain with hollow
(less contact area) but that the
hollow could create a point of weakness. Maybe there's no such thing as a
weak 4 by 4, I'm not sure.
I like the look of it though.

Bill




--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:21:27 -0400, the infamous "Bill"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

Like the feet in this workbench:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Proje....aspx?id=33067

Yeah, easy enough on the bandsaw. You could pivot the piece on the
nail on your locator board instead of using extra nailsif you wanted.
That's what I'd probably do.

I cut these freehand, bottoms and ends. http://fwd4.me/6oE


Nice. I like the "hollow" in the base between the ends of the feet.
Garrett Hack sketches a hollow
in his workbench diagram, but the feature does not appear in his actual
bench.

Intuitively, seems like stability would be easier to obtain with hollow
(less contact area)

True!

but that the
hollow could create a point of weakness. Maybe there's no such thing as a
weak 4 by 4, I'm not sure.

There is if you cut 3" away.


I like the look of it though.

Ditto. It's the traditional look/style.

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

"Bill" wrote in message
...




I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple,
2x4 and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.

You don't like the feet on the bench I linked to above? His vertical
supports are each joined
with double T&M joinery. You must be in a hurry! ; )


That is a fine design but I want a work bench...to build projects. I don't
want a work bench project. ;~)

"Bill" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than poplar for instance.


The "index card" that Woodsmith sent me lists White Pine as soft and
Yellow Pine as hard. It just occurred to me: maybe they mean in the sense
of actually working the wood, rather than it's "botanical classification"!

Bill


SYP is a hard "softwood". IIRC hard and soft woods are classified as to the
width of the leaves on the tree. Long and narrow/thin leaf, soft wood.
Broad leaf, hard wood.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:36:40 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the
whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than
poplar for instance.

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.


Ok ok ok ok,, I'll go get "2". I'll tell my wife you siad it would be ok.
;~)

"ExtremelyAvg" wrote in message
...

Oh, please. Just go get thehttp://fwd4.me/KBxand do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

Festool is having a sale from now until the end of May. I am
considering getting that table. But I don't think I would gloat
afterwards.

Table not on sale.... Only the track saws and accessories for the track
saw.

Leon wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...


I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple,
2x4 and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
You don't like the feet on the bench I linked to above? His vertical
supports are each joined
with double T&M joinery. You must be in a hurry! ; )


That is a fine design but I want a work bench...to build projects. I don't
want a work bench project. ;~)

I understand completely. In my situation, I don't mind undertaking the
workbench project as a project. I know I'll learn a lot from it. I
already have.

Best,
Bill

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:05:48 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:36:40 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

I am considering a simple design that WoodSmith on TV showed. Simple, 2x4
and 2x6 construction for the bottom with MDF reinforcement panels to
stabilize the legs and a 4 layer MDF top.
But I am also considering the same design and using BB plywood for the
whole
thing, just laminate/build up to achieve 2x4 and 2x6 dimensions.
SYP is pretty hard considering it is clasified as a hsoft wood, harder
than
poplar for instance.

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.


Ok ok ok ok,, I'll go get "2".

Right. One for each hand? Seems reasonable.


I'll tell my wife you siad it would be ok. ;~)

Don't you DARE!

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:05:48 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:

Oh, please. Just go get the http://fwd4.me/KBx and do the gloat,
damnit. We can handle it.


Ok ok ok ok,, I'll go get "2".

Right. One for each hand? Seems reasonable.


Well 1 just does not seem expensive enough. ;~)