Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.

TB2 is a good, all purpose wood glue. Elmer's white softens easily with
water, TB2 doesn't; it doesn't creep as much either.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:50:00 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.

TB2 is a good, all purpose wood glue. Elmer's white softens easily with
water, TB2 doesn't; it doesn't creep as much either.

Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.

krw wrote:
....
Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.

TB-III (3) passes ANSI Type-2 waterproof test; TB-II (2) only Type-I (I
know, that TB product #3 is a #2 test is cornfoozing).

The difference is the level of water resistance; neither is truly
waterproof as epoxy/resorcinal/etc. but use TB-III for exterior work
that does get wet; otherwise no real reason to use it. Well, there is
actually one other reason but not particularly related to the
water-resistance issue; TB-III has quite a lot lower chalk temperature
(I forget the exact number and am too lazy to look it up at the moment
, after all it is Labor Day vbg) but it's roughly 50F. That can be
a benefit in exterior use as well.

--

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.

TB-I /-II are yellow carpenters' glues that are equivalent to any other
on the market--I've used it by the 5-gal bucket over the years. I
recommend it highly although there's little to commend it over any other
reputable similar product; they're all essentially equivalent. In
larger-volume times I've used the Woodworkers' Supply "Ol' Yeller"
that's about 20% or so cheaper as well but one has to be in large
production environments for the cost of "ordinary" glues to be sizable
enough an expense to even be noticed.

All in all, use what's locally available at good pricing/convenience;
there's really very little to pick one over another.

The only really significant difference is w/ the TB-III (and similar)
products--they satisfy a higher level of water resistance and are
indicated for exterior use or as noted in another response where the
lower chalk temperature is a desirable trait.

--

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:50:00 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.

TB2 is a good, all purpose wood glue. Elmer's white softens easily with
water, TB2 doesn't; it doesn't creep as much either.

Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.


My understanding is that TB2 sets rapidly, while TB3 has a longer setting
time, thus allowing more time for adjustments in aligning complex glue-ups.

dpb wrote:
....
TB-I /-II are yellow carpenters' glues that are equivalent to any other
on the market--I've used it by the 5-gal bucket over the years. I
recommend it highly although there's little to commend it over any other
reputable similar product; they're all essentially equivalent. ...

Sorry, forgot to add that the primary difference between the two is that
TB-II passes the ANSI test for water resistance (note not water"proof")...

--

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:50:00 -0400, "dadiOH"

Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.


There was a test done about 5 years ago compairing the wood glues. TB3
"claims" water proof over weather resistant for TB2. The magazine test
showed TB2 to actually be more water resistant than TB3.
If you read the fine print on the back of the bottle of TB3 you find that
there is a reference to the testing lab qualifications for "water proof".
Other than "Water Proof" being mentioned in the title of the test
standard, from that point forward water resistant is the only compairison.
The TB3 lable is as misleading as hell.

That said, TB3 is still a pretty good glue. Price wise 30-40% better than
TB 2, IMHO no.
I mostly buy TB3 because of the color of the product. It is tan in color
and dries to a medium brown. For me the medium brown color looks better
than YELLOW.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:27:50 -0500, dpb wrote:

The difference is the level of water resistance; neither is truly
waterproof as epoxy/resorcinal/etc. but use TB-III for exterior work
that does get wet; otherwise no real reason to use it. Well, there is
actually one other reason but not particularly related to the
water-resistance issue; TB-III has quite a lot lower chalk temperature
(I forget the exact number and am too lazy to look it up at the moment
, after all it is Labor Day vbg) but it's roughly 50F. That can be
a benefit in exterior use as well.

TB3 also has a slightly longer open time than TB2 and is less runny than
TB2.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Leon wrote:
"krw" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:50:00 -0400, "dadiOH"

Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.


There was a test done about 5 years ago compairing the wood glues. TB3
"claims" water proof over weather resistant for TB2. The magazine test
showed TB2 to actually be more water resistant than TB3.
If you read the fine print on the back of the bottle of TB3 you find that
there is a reference to the testing lab qualifications for "water proof".
Other than "Water Proof" being mentioned in the title of the test
standard, from that point forward water resistant is the only compairison.
The TB3 lable is as misleading as hell.
....

I disagree; the label says what ANSI test the product(s) pass -- there
is quite a lot of difference between the two test procedures and it is
TB states the glue isn't to be used for locations that are immersed but
is suitable for continuous moisture exposure.

Basically the difference is a water-resistant glue passes muster against
the ANSI Type 2 Standard. TB didn't write the Standard; they simply
developed products (as did all the other manufacturers) that meet the
published specifications.

The Type 2 test is repeated cycle of a four-hour soaking of the cured
glue joint followed by a dry bake. IIRC, the repeat count is also four.
After this, the joint is tested for integrity.

The Type-1 ANSI Standard test for "waterproof" designation is similar
except the test joint is boiled for four hours (instead of simply being
soaked), then baked. The boil sequence is repeated then the sample is
cooled w/ running water and tested for integrity while still wet.

What some other testing regimen may have done could be interesting if it
represented some particular application one had in mind, but doesn't
have much bearing on the specific qualification of any product to meet
the ANSI Standard.

The ANSI Standard is simply what it is--a test regimen that indicates
the ability of the product to withstand the test cycle as specified. It
is simply a consistent measurement against which different products can
be compared. It's really nothing different than a specific UL rating
for other products; it has some meaning in that the product met the test
requirements but one can't draw conclusions other than those directly
observable from the results of the tests.

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:


Sorry, forgot to add that the primary difference between the two is that
TB-II passes the ANSI test for water resistance (note not water"proof")...


Note: The ANSI Water Proof test that TB3 passes has nothing to do with
being water proof, only water resistance. Kind misleading, huh?

Larry Blanchard wrote:
....
TB3 also has a slightly longer open time than TB2 and is less runny than
TB2.

There are also versions of TB-II that are more viscous (less runny) high
tack. Particularly useful for trim, etc., but shorter open time.

Want to say it seems I recall that perhaps there's another that is
longer open time but not absolutely positive w/o looking at full-line
catalog. There's a darker Type-I as well that's less expensive than
-III if want the color; don't recall about that for --II for sure, either.

All in all, if look at full product line, there's about anything one
might want...

--

Leon wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

Sorry, forgot to add that the primary difference between the two is that
TB-II passes the ANSI test for water resistance (note not water"proof")...


Note: The ANSI Water Proof test that TB3 passes has nothing to do with
being water proof, only water resistance. Kind misleading, huh?

Not in my view, no--see other longer response. They meet the Standards
stated; no more, no less.

From the TB site--

TB-III TB-II TB-I
Strength* 4,000 psi 3,750 psi 3,600 psi
Open Time 10 min. 5 min. 5 min.
Chalk Temp 47° F 55° F 50° F
Viscosity 4,200 cps. 3,200 cps 3,400 cps
Exterior Use Yes** Yes*** No

* Maple to maple (ASTM D-905)
** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance
*** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance

--

Leon wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:

Sorry, forgot to add that the primary difference between the two is that
TB-II passes the ANSI test for water resistance (note not water"proof")...


Note: The ANSI Water Proof test that TB3 passes has nothing to do with
being water proof, only water resistance. Kind misleading, huh?

Not in my view, no--see other longer response. They meet the Standards
stated; no more, no less.

From the TB site--

TB-III TB-II TB-I
Strength* 4,000 psi 3,750 psi 3,600 psi
Open Time 10 min. 5 min. 5 min.
Chalk Temp 47° F 55° F 50° F
Viscosity 4,200 cps. 3,200 cps 3,400 cps
Exterior Use Yes** Yes*** No

* Maple to maple (ASTM D-905)
** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance
*** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance

--

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:27:50 -0500, dpb wrote:

krw wrote:
...
Along those lines... What, besides the markeering on the bottle, is
the difference between TB2 and TB3. Price, I know.

TB-III (3) passes ANSI Type-2 waterproof test; TB-II (2) only Type-I (I
know, that TB product #3 is a #2 test is cornfoozing).

Now someone here is confused... I know I am. ;-)

http://www.titebond.com/ProductLineT...ne=2&prodcat=1
"Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is the only leading brand, one-part
wood glue that passes the ANSI Type II water-resistance
specification. It is ideal for exterior woodworking projects,
including outdoor furniture, birdhouses, mailboxes, planters and
picnic tables."


The difference is the level of water resistance; neither is truly
waterproof as epoxy/resorcinal/etc. but use TB-III for exterior work
that does get wet; otherwise no real reason to use it. Well, there is
actually one other reason but not particularly related to the
water-resistance issue; TB-III has quite a lot lower chalk temperature
(I forget the exact number and am too lazy to look it up at the moment
, after all it is Labor Day vbg) but it's roughly 50F. That can be
a benefit in exterior use as well.

Didn't know what "chalk temperature" was so

According to the Titebond site, TB2 is good to 55F and TB3 to 46F. Not
too much of a difference.

The bottle also says that TB3 has a longer set-up time, which can be a
benefit for klutzes like me.

krw wrote:
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:27:50 -0500, dpb wrote:

....
Now someone here is confused... I know I am. ;-)
....

Yeah, I realized later I'd turned the ANSI numbers around--see, I _told_
you it was confoozing...

You caught it before I got back to correct meself...thanks.

--

Bob-tx wrote:
Very interesting discussion on TB glues, but probably more info than
the op was asking.
....

Ya' think????!!!!

--

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:41:01 -0500, dpb wrote:

Bob-tx wrote:
Very interesting discussion on TB glues, but probably more info than
the op was asking.
...

Ya' think????!!!!

But why should the OP be the only one to learn something here. ;-)

Very interesting discussion on TB glues, but probably more info than
the op was asking.

In my years of using glue, I have always been well satisfied with
TBs.

Bob

"dpb" wrote in message
...


...

I disagree; the label says what ANSI test the product(s) pass -- there is
quite a lot of difference between the two test procedures and it is TB
states the glue isn't to be used for locations that are immersed but is
suitable for continuous moisture exposure.

Basically the difference is a water-resistant glue passes muster against
the ANSI Type 2 Standard. TB didn't write the Standard; they simply
developed products (as did all the other manufacturers) that meet the
published specifications.

The Type 2 test is repeated cycle of a four-hour soaking of the cured glue
joint followed by a dry bake. IIRC, the repeat count is also four. After
this, the joint is tested for integrity.

The Type-1 ANSI Standard test for "waterproof" designation is similar
except the test joint is boiled for four hours (instead of simply being
soaked), then baked. The boil sequence is repeated then the sample is
cooled w/ running water and tested for integrity while still wet.

What some other testing regimen may have done could be interesting if it
represented some particular application one had in mind, but doesn't have
much bearing on the specific qualification of any product to meet the ANSI
Standard.

The ANSI Standard is simply what it is--a test regimen that indicates the
ability of the product to withstand the test cycle as specified. It is
simply a consistent measurement against which different products can be
compared. It's really nothing different than a specific UL rating for
other products; it has some meaning in that the product met the test
requirements but one can't draw conclusions other than those directly
observable from the results of the tests.

Regardless of your interpritation of the fine details,

If you see a lable that says "WaterProof" would you expect more performance
out of it than simply "Water Resistant"
The lable is misleading as the glue is not "Water Proof".

"dpb" wrote in message
...

Not in my view, no--see other longer response. They meet the Standards
stated; no more, no less.

From the TB site--

TB-III TB-II TB-I Strength* 4,000 psi
3,750 psi 3,600 psi
Open Time 10 min. 5 min. 5 min.
Chalk Temp 47° F 55° F 50° F
Viscosity 4,200 cps. 3,200 cps 3,400 cps
Exterior Use Yes** Yes*** No

* Maple to maple (ASTM D-905)
** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance
*** Passes ANSI/HPVA Type II water-resistance

In bold letters the lable states Water Proof. The glue is not water proof.
No stipulations unless you look elsewhere.

Leon wrote:
....
If you see a lable that says "WaterProof" would you expect more performance
out of it than simply "Water Resistant"
The lable is misleading as the glue is not "Water Proof".
....
Depends on what the meaning of "is" is, I guess...

I've been aware of the ANSI Standards for so long I guess I'm totally
desensitized to the question/concern you're try to raise.

As for the determination that it doesn't perform better, I don't see any
basis for the claim--they meet the standard they say they do and I've
certainly never had a failure of TB-III in it's stated environmental
usage to see there's anything whatever to complain about.

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...
If you see a lable that says "WaterProof" would you expect more
performance out of it than simply "Water Resistant"
The lable is misleading as the glue is not "Water Proof".
...
Depends on what the meaning of "is" is, I guess...


Yeah! LOL


I've been aware of the ANSI Standards for so long I guess I'm totally
desensitized to the question/concern you're try to raise.

And if you are aware that is another case. I now know better. The trouble
is the lable is bright green and pretty, it will attract the unaware.


As for the determination that it doesn't perform better, I don't see any
basis for the claim--they meet the standard they say they do and I've
certainly never had a failure of TB-III in it's stated environmental usage
to see there's anything whatever to complain about.

IIRC it was Wood magazine that did a test on the products. There were 10 or
so brands and types including the plyurethane glues. TB III and TB II were
in the test and the tsts included water sprays, and soaks IIRC. Any way the
article pointed out that TB II was superior to TB III in their test. There
was a lot of noise about it after the article came out. As a result of the
article I contacted Franklin and went back and forth with the Product
Manager. He claimed that he was aware of the article and would be getting
to the bottom of the situation. He sent me a case of TB III to give out to
friends and I have not heard anything about it since. IMHO the lable should
indicate "More Water Resistant" because to the comon knowledge customer,
WaterProof is,

adj.
1.. Impervious to or unaffected by water.
2.. Made of or coated or treated with rubber, plastic, or a sealing agent
to prevent penetration by water.
n.

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:38:57 -0500, dpb wrote:

Want to say it seems I recall that perhaps there's another that is
longer open time but not absolutely positive w/o looking at full-line
catalog.

There is, but IIRC it's more like TB1 than 2 or 3.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

krw wrote:
....

Didn't know what "chalk temperature" was so

According to the Titebond site, TB2 is good to 55F and TB3 to 46F. Not
too much of a difference.

Almost 10F and that _can_ be key in cooler weather, particularly
outdoors or in an unheated shop.

Note, of course, that not only the glue but the wood being glued needs
to be at least as warm as the chalk temperature else it will simply cool
the glue to below the threshold. Once there before set up and cured, it
will not bond at all and will turn powdery (hence the term "chalk"
temperature).

The bottle also says that TB3 has a longer set-up time, which can be a
benefit for klutzes like me.

Doesn't have to be klutzy; complicated glueups can tax the skills of
most anybody so the time is often useful indeed as well...

--

On Sep 7, 2:41*pm, dpb wrote:
Bob-tx wrote:
Very interesting discussion on TB glues, but probably more info than
the op was asking.

...

Ya' think????!!!! *

--

No actually, this thread is great.

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 07:46:05 -0700 (PDT), "Thomas G. Marshall"
wrote:


Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things. This TB II
stuff claims to be for exterior use as well (water resistance, etc.)

The hardware store says that of all the wood-specific glues, they sell
by far the most of the TB II. And of all the glues total, it's the
one with the least complaints (none), and the glue with the most
complaints is the elmer's wood.

Looking for experienced comments here. Having used everything to
repair chairs before (from plain vanilla elmer's white to PL-400 ----
don't ask) I'm always looking for a great glue. When clamped properly
the EWG was superb.


I've used Elmer's Woodworkers glue for over 30 years, probably gallons
of the stuff. It's strong and never had a complaint. I suspect
there is little difference between the major brands. I don't use the
waterproof glue unless the application requires it.

dadiOH wrote:
Thomas G. Marshall wrote:
Does Tite Bond II have any track record with you guys? I was an
elmers wood glue guy, but am willing to try new things.

TB2 is a good, all purpose wood glue. Elmer's white softens easily
with
water, TB2 doesn't; it doesn't creep as much either.

Elmer's white glue is not Elmer's "Wood" glue. Elmer's Carpenter glue
is not white, it is yellow, same as TB. One of the major differences
from white glue and carpenters glue is creep. Elmer's yellow Carpenter
glue creeps less than white glue, just as TB does. Personally, I've
never had a problem with Elmer's Carpenters Glue, but would not hesitate
to buy Franklin's TB. If they were side by side, I'd buy the one with
the best price.

I don't particularly care what the salesman said about complaints, 35 or
so years personal experience with Elmer's Carpenters glue w/o a
complaint is enough for me. I have used TB and it was the same stuff,
far as I could tell.

--
Jack
Got Change: Red Commies ==== Green Commies!
http://jbstein.com