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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Here is Rockler's Dowel Pro Jig -
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...65730&pn=65730 And their Porter-Cable Bisquit Jointer- http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...90224&pn=90224 How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. Thanks. Sonny |
#2
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 11, 8:11*pm, Sonny wrote:
Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. *To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. No question, the biscuit joiner is a lot faster. Lay out you boards, mark a line every foot or so using your square, an go for it. But it might have a little more slop in the alignment as not all biscuits are created equal and you might move the machine an infinitesimal amount. I prefer to use cauls and clamps. Or you might consider the Lee Valley panel clamps & glue up a whole bunch at once. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...81&cat=1,43838 Luigi |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Sonny" wrote: How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. You don't need to buy a busquit joiner if you have a router. A 5/32" slot cutter and a 5/32 straight bit and you you're covered for #20 biscuits. Lew |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Sonny" wrote: How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. You don't need to buy a busquit joiner if you have a router. A 5/32" slot cutter and a 5/32 straight bit and you you're covered for #20 biscuits. Lew I use my biscuit slot cutter all the time, works like a charm. -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Sonny wrote:
Here is Rockler's Dowel Pro Jig - http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...65730&pn=65730 And their Porter-Cable Bisquit Jointer- http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...90224&pn=90224 How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. Biscuits go very quickly, and the limited depth means that they can be used where dowels aren't really practical. On the other hand they shouldn't be used as a substitute for a mortise and tenon like dowels can. For limited production you can cut biscuit slots with a router and a slot cutter, but it's not nearly as convenient as using the purpose-made tool. |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards
aligned, than is using dowels? *I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. *I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. *I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. All I will do is vote with some of the previous posts. Biscuits are quick and do add some strength; but they do not guarantee smooth joints in themselves. You will still have to check joint smoothness or do some sanding/planing afterward. BTW, 1,200 bd ft will build a lot of entertainment center. Would love to see pics when done (or in process). RonB |
#8
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... "Sonny" wrote: How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. You don't need to buy a busquit joiner if you have a router. A 5/32" slot cutter and a 5/32 straight bit and you you're covered for #20 biscuits. Lew Only good for th edges/ends of a board. Yo need a biscuit jointer if you want to have a shelf in the middle of a panel. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Sonny" wrote in message ... Here is Rockler's Dowel Pro Jig - http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...65730&pn=65730 And their Porter-Cable Bisquit Jointer- http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...90224&pn=90224 Snip The PlateJoiner will be less fussy with left and right alingment. It will also be a faster process. A warning however, alswys use the fence to index the plat joiner and have the edge/ end of the wood always hang over the end of the bence. This will help insure that the plate jointer does not rest on the table/bench top. Debris under the work piece and or plate joiner will throw off slot locations. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 11, 11:11*pm, Sonny wrote:
Here is Rockler's Dowel Pro Jig -http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=9976&filter=65730&pn=65730 And their Porter-Cable Bisquit Jointer-http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1309&filter=90224&pn=90224 How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? *I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. *I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. *I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. *To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. Thanks. Sonny Domino. Best of both worlds. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 12, 3:35*pm, Angela Sekeris wrote:
On Jul 11, 11:11*pm, Sonny wrote: Here is Rockler's Dowel Pro Jig -http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=9976&filter=65730&pn=65730 And their Porter-Cable Bisquit Jointer-http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1309&filter=90224&pn=90224 How much better (and faster) is using bisquits, for keeping boards aligned, than is using dowels? *I don't have a bisquit jointer, but I do have the dowel jig. *I'm considering getting the bisquit jointer. I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. *I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. *To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. Thanks. Sonny Domino. Best of both worlds. Buying me one? |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
I Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- You don't need to buy a busquit joiner if you have a router. A 5/32" slot cutter and a 5/32 straight bit and you you're covered for #20 biscuits. Lew ------------------------------------------------------ "Leon" wrote: ===================================== Only good for th edges/ends of a board. Yo need a biscuit jointer if you want to have a shelf in the middle of a panel. ================================== Read again. Think that 5/32" straight bit might be ueful for something? Lew |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
BTW, 1,200 bd ft will build a lot of entertainment center. Would love to see pics when done (or in process). RonB Last year, I inherited a partial woodshop and a shed of lumber.... about the same amount of cherry and, also, lots of white oak and walnut. Some of you may recall, back then, I had asked about an old 1950s Craftsman table saw and lathe. I did donate the table saw to a worthy cause. A machinist friend made an extension for the lathe bed, so now I can turn items nearly 8' long. I gave the old lathe cabinet (on wheels - custom made) to a local young woodworker. I re-wired the shaper (dry rotted wiring) and am debating keeping it or giving it. There is a work table (2 solid doors hinged together, ie., flip top), such that, not flipped, the table top work space is 30" X 7'. Flipping half of the top, opened to a 60" X 7' work surface.... pretty neat! I'm debating giving away this work table. Some time ago, I bought the house next door and have been remodeling it for a woodshop. Some of these inherited items don't fit my remodel/set-up ideas/plans. Actually, I've been looking at the cherry, also, so I'm not dead set on using the mahogany. I've pulled out about 300 bd ft of each and have been inspecting and trying to decide what might be best for the project. Most boards are 1" X 8" X 12' (some 14 & 16 footers) and many with coon/possum/roach/spider **** and other similar surface stains. A light planing has taken care of most of the stains. Today, I made 12 sets of panel clamps, 2" X 3" X 40" long to 60" long, so buying them won't be necessary. My widest (back) panel will be 50". I'm still debating buying a bisquit jointer. I've been looking at the slot cutters. I'll probably get both. I do have an inspiration picture, but I can't post on abpw. I can email the pic for those who want to see. Sonny |
#14
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Angela Sekeris" wrote in message Domino. Best of both worlds. Worst of the 'paying for it' world though. But, it's one of those things that exemplifies 'you get what you pay for'. Only real consideration is how often might it be used? If it's three or four times a year on relatively small jobs, then it's just not worth the cost IMHO. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Angela Sekeris" wrote in message ... Domino. Best of both worlds. Well, I was gunna say that but it is a bit more expensive. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 12, 2:37*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 12, 3:35*pm, Angela Sekeris wrote: Domino. Best of both worlds. Buying me one? Jeez.... I know you love to stir stuff up a bit, but let's not start sock puppet theater. ;^) We're watching, you know. Robert |
#17
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 13, 9:24*am, "
wrote: On Jul 12, 2:37*pm, Robatoy wrote: On Jul 12, 3:35*pm, Angela Sekeris wrote: Domino. Best of both worlds. Buying me one? Jeez.... I know you love to stir stuff up a bit, but let's not start sock puppet theater. * ;^) We're watching, you know. Robert LMAO!. The visual cracks me up. Angela started up something with Google, I'm not sure what. I plop my ass down in her study (adjacent to the kitchen) and go online while the green tea steeps. I don't always check who is logged in.... obviously. Her comment? "You talking to yourself now?" r |
#18
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Robatoy" wrote Her comment? "You talking to yourself now?" ========================== Well......., you rarely get into trouble talking to yourself. And people tend to leave you alone too. It is like buying presents for yourself. You always get what you want. No need to suggest or change topics. With yourself, you are always on topic. |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Peter Huebner wrote:
In article 04f87b86-dd7f-4670-828b-96a38e19e938 @r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com, says... I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. If you're really slow and super-careful I am sure dowels will be more accurate - I can be really careful with bisquits and still sometimes get an alignment error of 1/2mm or so (that's around 0.02 inches). It cleans up with the minimal glue squeezeout. I have a doweling jig and used it once when I was a beginner ww, it sucked, was really hard to use. Then I used the table saw to run a grove and used a plywood spline, easier, but a pita. I then got a glue joint for my molding head, still a pita. I then learned joints simply need glued, no reason for dowels, splines or fancy glue joints. I never used a biscuit joiner but I've seen them in use and they look simple as all get out. On the other hand, I use clamps and cauls as needed and never had a problem. I just glue the stuff up and get joints just as accurate as you get with a biscuit jointer, and never once had a glue up failure. I guess if I were in a small production commercial shop, I would look into the biscuit thing in place of cauls? I know I see Norm and Scott on TV use about a hundred biscuits every couple of feet. I think the most I would need in an 8' glue up would be 4, which is about one more than should be needed? How warped is that wood? I guess if I spent $700+ on a biscuit joiner that wasn't needed for strength, and only lined things up a bit easier than using cauls, but not any better, I'd use the thing. Otherwise, spend the money on a bunch of various types of clamps of which you can never have too many and have at it:-) -- Jack Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/ http://jbstein.com |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Lee Michaels" wrote in
: Well......., you rarely get into trouble talking to yourself. And people tend to leave you alone too. It is like buying presents for yourself. You always get what you want. No need to suggest or change topics. With yourself, you are always on topic. If you argue with yourself, don't forget the other guy's an idiot. :-) Puckdropper -- "The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on rec.woodworking To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 13, 11:00*am, Jack Stein wrote:
Peter Huebner wrote: In article 04f87b86-dd7f-4670-828b-96a38e19e938 @r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com, says... I have 1200 bd ft of mahogany and am drawing out plans for an entertainment center (12'W X 8'H X 25"D) .... no plywood on this project. *I have had, somewhat, similar panel projects in the past, but not as big. Is using bisquits a faster process than using dowels. *To me, in the past, using dowels took lots of time, since I seem to measure and cut each one individually, more so than using a standard measure/stop for drilling holes and cutting the dowels (or most of them) to a set length. If you're really slow and super-careful I am sure dowels will be more accurate - I can be really careful with bisquits and still sometimes get an alignment error of 1/2mm or so (that's around 0.02 inches). It cleans up with the minimal glue squeezeout. I have a doweling jig and used it once when I was a beginner ww, it sucked, was really hard to use. *Then I used the table saw to run a grove and used a plywood spline, easier, but a pita. *I then got a glue joint for my molding head, still a pita. *I then learned joints simply need glued, no reason for dowels, splines or fancy glue joints. I never used a biscuit joiner but I've seen them in use and they look simple as all get out. *On the other hand, I use clamps and cauls as needed and never had a problem. *I just glue the stuff up and get joints just as accurate as you get with a biscuit jointer, and never once had a glue up failure. I guess if I were in a small production commercial shop, I would look into the biscuit thing in place of cauls? *I know I see Norm and Scott on TV use about a hundred biscuits every couple of feet. *I think the most I would need in an 8' glue up would be 4, which is about one more than should be needed? *How warped is that wood? I guess if I spent $700+ on a biscuit joiner that wasn't needed for strength, and only lined things up a bit easier than using cauls, but not any better, I'd use the thing. *Otherwise, spend the money on a bunch of various types of clamps of which you can never have too many and have at it:-) -- Jack Using FREE News Server:http://www.eternal-september.org/http://jbstein.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - My father has a biscuit jointer, and I borrowed it once for doing some edging. After a bit of trying, I found that no matter how careful I was, I ended up getting errors as often as not(about 1/2 mm or so), which added a lot of extra work. It might have been the model of biscuit jointer, or my inexperience, I don't know. In any case, I got out my router, and cut some splines. I got no error whatsoever after many edges, so that's my prefered method now. |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 12, 4:16*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Angela Sekeris" wrote in message Domino. Best of both worlds. Only real consideration is how often might it be used? If it's three or four times a year on relatively small jobs, then it's just not worth the cost IMHO. A tool not worth the cost?????? You simply do not understand and are committing a serious heresy with those words. Do you really belong on the wreck or are you just trolling? :-) Luigi |
#23
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 12, 11:17*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Angela Sekeris" wrote in message ... Domino. Best of both worlds. Well, * * * *I was gunna say that *but it is a bit more expensive. A good tool will (almost) always find a way for it to be used. I allows you to tackle jobs you might not have otherwise. (Mr. Watson, did you notice I inserted the *(almost)* nebulizer? Keeps the anal nit-picking ****s away from my nits. G) |
#24
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Leon wrote:
"Angela Sekeris" wrote in message ... Domino. Best of both worlds. Well, I was gunna say that but it is a bit more expensive. Unfortunately, it's probably not. Way back when the biscuit joiner was introduced, people were running around touting it as the best thing since sliced bread. Then everyone started using them and... they're just not. They're great for alignment, certainly, but they're really not going to add any strength to your joints and you can certainly do a lot better. Now the tool is ubiquitous. The same will be true of the Domino. Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! Sure, but does it make them strong? Not according to all the tests I've seen. In the end, the Domino will just be another piece of early-adopter junk, in a few years everyone will have their own versions out, you can pick a cheap one up at Harbor Freight for $30 and we'll be back to making our own tenons because we realize it's not really a better way, just a faster way. |
#25
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message Domino. Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! Sure, but does it make them strong? Not according to all the tests I've seen. Perhaps, you'd like to quote those tests depicting some of those weaker joints? |
#26
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
On Jul 14, 2:34*am, "Upscale" wrote:
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message Domino. *Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! *Sure, but does it make them strong? *Not according to all the tests I've seen. Perhaps, you'd like to quote those tests depicting some of those weaker joints? EVERYthing you always wanted to know about biscuits adding strength, and more. Scientific enough for me to prove that biscuits add strength. http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...abstract1.html |
#27
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Upscale wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message EVERYthing you always wanted to know about biscuits adding strength, and more. "Brian Henderson" wrote in message cheap one up at Harbor Freight for $30 and we'll be back to making our own tenons because we realize it's not really a better way, just a faster way. NOT biscuits. Documentation that Domino joints are weaker and not a better way. FWW did a pretty comprehensive set of joint style/fit/glues test a year or two ago at the lab at (iirc) Case Western. I _believe_ I remember that loose tenons came in _slightly_ behind integral ones; not greatly, but a little iirc. -- |
#28
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Jack Stein wrote:
.... ... There is little doubt that a properly fitted biscuit joint is comparable to a properly fitted mortise and tenon joint. ... I think there's a _great_deal_ of doubt about that. I don't think the biscuits will even remotely approach a m&t, loose tenon or not... OK, now you've done it; I'm going to have to go see if the FWW tests included biscuits--I don't recall. -- |
#29
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"dpb" wrote in message
... Jack Stein wrote: ... ... There is little doubt that a properly fitted biscuit joint is comparable to a properly fitted mortise and tenon joint. ... I think there's a _great_deal_ of doubt about that. I don't think the biscuits will even remotely approach a m&t, loose tenon or not... OK, now you've done it; I'm going to have to go see if the FWW tests included biscuits--I don't recall. Biscuits came out far worse than loose tenons. Loose tenons in turn are slightly, but consistently and measurably weaker than real tenons. He tested both initial failure and residual strength after first failure. |
#30
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
dpb wrote:
Jack Stein wrote: ... ... There is little doubt that a properly fitted biscuit joint is comparable to a properly fitted mortise and tenon joint. ... I think there's a _great_deal_ of doubt about that. I don't think the biscuits will even remotely approach a m&t, loose tenon or not... OK, now you've done it; I'm going to have to go see if the FWW tests included biscuits--I don't recall. A mortise and tenon will support weight without any glue, will a biscuit joint do that? |
#31
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
"Robatoy" wrote in message EVERYthing you always wanted to know about biscuits adding strength, and more. "Brian Henderson" wrote in message cheap one up at Harbor Freight for $30 and we'll be back to making our own tenons because we realize it's not really a better way, just a faster way. NOT biscuits. Documentation that Domino joints are weaker and not a better way. |
#32
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
MikeWhy wrote:
.... Biscuits came out far worse than loose tenons. Loose tenons in turn are slightly, but consistently and measurably weaker than real tenons. He tested both initial failure and residual strength after first failure. That's exactly what one would expect given the mechanical differences between them--and I was pretty sure I remembered the test results confirming it for the two m&ts, but didn't remember whether the biscuits were included in that set of testing or not. I'd never think of using them for the purpose for anything other than simply holding a face frame together or some other similar non-critical, non-stressed location. -- |
#33
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Upscale wrote:
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message Domino. Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! Sure, but does it make them strong? Not according to all the tests I've seen. Perhaps, you'd like to quote those tests depicting some of those weaker joints? Perhaps he meant strongER. Edge gluing long grain to make panels rather than using plywood is what the guy was asking about. It is well known today's glue makes long grain joints stronger than the wood itself. Ergo, the only purpose of dowels or biscuits in this type of joint is alignment, not strength. My experience is to just glue up the joint with no dowels, biscuits, splines or anything else is easy and sufficient. IF I had a nice biscuit joiner, I might use it sparingly to align things easily, but not for strength. It is also well known that end grain joints require more than glue, and need mortise and tenons, biscuits or dowels for strength. There is little doubt that a properly fitted biscuit joint is comparable to a properly fitted mortise and tenon joint. The biscuit joint is a heck of a lot faster to make. Dowel joints suck and are difficult to make without the proper equipment, and the little dowel jigs sold at hardware stores ain't the proper equipment, in my limited experience. From watching all the tool salesman on TV, they seem to use biscuits mostly for edge gluing, and they use like a million of them on each edge, with glue squirting out everywhere. Really lame. Mortise and tenon is occasionally still used by Norm to sell the Delta mortiser I reckon, but Scott tends to use the Kreg Pocket hole machine for about everything. I do have the pocket hole thingee, also have a mortise machine. Not sure why the $700 Festool gadget is not used for this stuff, as it seems it's mainly what it's good for. -- Jack Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/ http://jbstein.com |
#34
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
OK, now you've done it; I'm going to have to go see if the FWW tests
included biscuits--I don't recall. A mortise and tenon will support weight without any glue, will a biscuit joint do that? That's a silly question. You would never use a biscuit w/o glue. Biscuits are compressed at manufacture so that the glue will expand them for a tight fit upon *proper* installation. So... you are asking how well a product performs when improperly installed. By contrast the M&T joint was designed before the invention of modern glue. Back in the day, when glue could be expected to fail over time, that was a real consideration. -Steve |
#35
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
StephenM wrote:
OK, now you've done it; I'm going to have to go see if the FWW tests included biscuits--I don't recall. A mortise and tenon will support weight without any glue, will a biscuit joint do that? That's a silly question. You would never use a biscuit w/o glue. Biscuits are compressed at manufacture so that the glue will expand them for a tight fit upon *proper* installation. So... you are asking how well a product performs when improperly installed. Google "rhetorical question". By contrast the M&T joint was designed before the invention of modern glue. Back in the day, when glue could be expected to fail over time, that was a real consideration. ROF,L. If you think that glue never fails you have a big fat surprise coming. |
#36
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Upscale wrote:
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message Domino. Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! Sure, but does it make them strong? Not according to all the tests I've seen. Perhaps, you'd like to quote those tests depicting some of those weaker joints? They did one a month or so ago in Popular Woodworking, if I'm not mistaken, comparing the strength of different joints. The Domino did not perform very well. I'm just not anywhere where I can go back and look at the moment. |
#37
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
ROF,L. If you think that glue never fails you have a big fat surprise
coming. I never say never |
#38
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
StephenM wrote:
ROF,L. If you think that glue never fails you have a big fat surprise coming. I never say never When rely on glue and glue alone to hold up someone you care about, you _are_ saying "never". And if your wife or mother ends up with a chair leg up her butt because you made the chair with biscuits instead of dowels or mortise and tenon then you will never hear the end of it. |
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
Brian Henderson wrote:
: Upscale wrote: : "Brian Henderson" wrote in message : Domino. Ooh look, it makes loose tenon joints easy! Sure, but does it : make them strong? Not according to all the tests I've seen. : : Perhaps, you'd like to quote those tests depicting some of those weaker : joints? : They did one a month or so ago in Popular Woodworking, if I'm not : mistaken, comparing the strength of different joints. The Domino did : not perform very well. I'm just not anywhere where I can go back and : look at the moment. Their initial 2007 review was extremely positive: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/ar..._From_Festool/ They also gave it a "best new tool" award a couple of years ago. I couldn't find a strength test (or more recent review) on their site. -- Andy Barss |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Bisquit Jointer vs Dowel Pro Jig
J. Clarke wrote:
StephenM wrote: ROF,L. If you think that glue never fails you have a big fat surprise coming. I never say never When rely on glue and glue alone to hold up someone you care about, you _are_ saying "never". And if your wife or mother ends up with a chair leg up her butt because you made the chair with biscuits instead of dowels or mortise and tenon then you will never hear the end of it. Most modern glues are stronger than the woods we use them on, if something fails, it's invariably the wood, not the glue itself. Therefore, the consideration, as you point out, is the joints we use, we cannot put forces on the joints that exceed their breaking strength and far too many people overestimate the strength of joints because they're fast or easy. The best joints are always going to be integral M&T and dovetail, I wouldn't risk anything ending up my wife's backside by using less. |
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