This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

On 22 June, 10:50, Topaz wrote:

Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

Try the wikipedia article on steel squares, and contacting the author
of the majority of that article. They're clearly someone who knows
their squares and is possibly going to have a copy of such a book.

Nearest I can do from my shelves is Audel's, "New Catechism of the
Steam Engine", which isn't quite the same thing 8-)

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 22 June, 10:50, Topaz wrote:

Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

Try the wikipedia article on steel squares, and contacting the author
of the majority of that article. They're clearly someone who knows
their squares and is possibly going to have a copy of such a book.

Nearest I can do from my shelves is Audel's, "New Catechism of the
Steam Engine", which isn't quite the same thing 8-)

It's book 3 that has the information on framing squares, in stock at Amazon
for 25 bucks (order fast if you want one--they say there's only one left in
stock).

http://www.amazon.com/Carpenters-Bui.../dp/076457115X

They also have several copies of the 1923 edition of the full set for prices
ranging from 25 bucks on up depending on condition.
http://www.amazon.com/Audels-Carpent.../dp/B000KM5PBM

If you go to Amazon and search on "steel square" you'll find several other
books covering that territory as well. Horner's "Essential Guide to the
Steel Square"
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Guid.../dp/1565233425
for 14 bucks covers it in excruciating detail in 200 pages vs 30 for the
Audels book.

On Jun 22, 5:50*am, Topaz wrote:
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. *Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. *The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Try:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/z_media/a...uare-Vol.1.pdf

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 22 June, 10:50, Topaz wrote:

Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

Try the wikipedia article on steel squares, and contacting the author
of the majority of that article. They're clearly someone who knows
their squares and is possibly going to have a copy of such a book.


Wow! Really good article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_square

"Topaz" wrote in message
...
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Yes it is on page 264 book 1 of the 4th edtion copy right 1976 . Where do
you want it posted

Well I'll be darned..... Had to run down to the workshop
and drag out the framing square. Never took a real close
look at this thing but was thrown for a loop. I recall
a few years ago I was building an octagon table and spent
some time laying out the cuts.... and there is was on the
framing square all the time! sheesh

Marty

DLB wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:50 am, Topaz wrote:
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Try:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/z_media/a...uare-Vol.1.pdf

Thanks for your replies everyone.
Many reactions refer to the current Octagon scales - showing how to
"plane" a 4-side to an 8-side (eg the wiki).
My OP said that was not what I wanted: what I want is
the Eagle square from about 1900 to 1923 (when Eagle were swallowed
by Stanley) which had a different set of scales as my OP described.

Sweet Sawdust, before we start posting, please can you be really sure
that
the copy you have describes the old Octagon scales ?

(I have put a scan of the scales on Flickr but I dont know how to post
a link to
the single image here. Help anyone?)

Greetings.

On 22 jun, 16:07, "sweet sawdust" wrote:
"Topaz" wrote in message

...



This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. *Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. *The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Yes it is on page 264 book 1 of the 4th edtion copy right 1976 . *Where do
you want it posted



- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Topaz wrote:
....
(I have put a scan of the scales on Flickr but I dont know how to post
a link to the single image here. Help anyone?)

....

Copy the url while displaying it and pasting (bracketed in "..." so it
won't be wrapped, maybe??? Don't know if there's something unusual
about Flickr that prevents that/makes it incorrect link...

--

Marty wrote:
Well I'll be darned..... Had to run down to the workshop
and drag out the framing square. Never took a real close
look at this thing but was thrown for a loop. I recall
a few years ago I was building an octagon table and spent
some time laying out the cuts.... and there is was on the
framing square all the time! sheesh

You're lucky you got one with the scales. They don't all have them anymore.

Marty

DLB wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:50 am, Topaz wrote:
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be
"wrong" - but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Try:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/z_media/a...uare-Vol.1.pdf

I am not sure if this is it but here is part of it:

Octagon table or eight-square scale

This tale on the square is usually located along the middle of the tongue
face and is used for laying off lines to cut an eight- square or
octagon-shaped piece of timber form a square timber. In Fig. 2o, let abcd
represent the end section, or but, of a square of 6" x 6" timber. Through
the center the lines ab and cd parallel with the sides and at right angles
to each other. With dividers take as many squares (6) from the scale as
there are inches in width of the piece of timber, and lay off this square on
either side of the point a, such as Aa and Ah; lay off in the same way the
same spaces from point b, as Bd and Be; also lay off Cb, Cc, Df,and Dg.
Then draw the lines ab, cd, ef, and gh. Cut off the edges to lines ab, cd,
ef, and gh, thus obtaining the octagon or 8-sided piece

It makes perfect since with the pictures in the book, but sounds wierd here.




"Topaz" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your replies everyone.
Many reactions refer to the current Octagon scales - showing how to
"plane" a 4-side to an 8-side (eg the wiki).
My OP said that was not what I wanted: what I want is
the Eagle square from about 1900 to 1923 (when Eagle were swallowed
by Stanley) which had a different set of scales as my OP described.

Sweet Sawdust, before we start posting, please can you be really sure
that
the copy you have describes the old Octagon scales ?

(I have put a scan of the scales on Flickr but I dont know how to post
a link to
the single image here. Help anyone?)

Greetings.

On 22 jun, 16:07, "sweet sawdust" wrote:
"Topaz" wrote in message

...



This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

Yes it is on page 264 book 1 of the 4th edtion copy right 1976 . Where do
you want it posted



- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk
bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:50:38 -0700 (PDT), Topaz
wrote:

This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz




My Audel's says the following:

"Table of Octagon Rafters

The complete framing square is provided with a table for cutting
octagon rafters, as shown in Fig. 34. In this table, the first line
of figures from the top gives the length of the octagon hip rafters
per foot of run. The second line of figures gives the length of the
jack rafters spaced 1 foot from the octagon hip. The third line of
figures gives the reference to the graduated edge that will give the
side cut for octagon hip rafters. The fourth line of figures gives
the reference to the graduated edge that will give the side cuts for
jack rafters."


Is this what you are looking for?



Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Topaz writes:
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

Second page of the book (1928 reprint, gilt edges, embossed leather bound):

The lines radiating from division 12 on the tongue of the square
to various points on the blade as seen in Figure M, ar inclinations
corresponding to various roof pitches for common rafters.

For octagon, or hip rafters, use mark 13 or 17 respectively.

The pitch (ratio of blade to tongue) is identical for 12, 13 or 17
(i.e. 12/24, 13/24, 17/24 are all pitch of 1, 12/18, 13/18, 17/18
are all pitch of 3/4 etc.)

scott

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:50:38 -0700 (PDT), Topaz
wrote:

This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how
the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz




http://www.construction-resource.com...ad.php?p=39856


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Sweet Sawdust, thanks for the effort you took, but it is not the
octagon scale
I want.

Tom Watson, that looks more promising. In Fig 34, are there the
phrases
"use XXX" and "use VVV" at the end of the third and fourth lines of
the table?
If so, any explanation about XXX and VVV in the text ?
Or what they mean by "graduated edge" ? Thanks in advance.

Scott, You also appear to have the real thing, although what you
describe sounds
like a protractor enscribed on the square. In the "original", the
description I am
looking for appears on pages (22,23) but especially 24 and 25, with
figure on 26.
How is it in your copy ?
Greetings,
Topaz



On 22 jun, 19:38, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
Topaz writes:
This is an appeal to rec.ww's.
Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and
Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares?
It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how
to use the Octagon table. *Not the table on a modern square, used to
turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. *The Eagle square
made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of
rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"
- but it can't be !

Second page of the book (1928 reprint, gilt edges, embossed leather bound):

* *The lines radiating from division 12 on the tongue of the square
* *to various points on the blade as seen in Figure M, ar inclinations
* *corresponding to various roof pitches for common rafters.

* *For octagon, or hip rafters, use mark 13 or 17 respectively.

* *The pitch (ratio of blade to tongue) is identical for 12, 13 or 17
* *(i.e. 12/24, 13/24, 17/24 are all pitch of 1, 12/18, 13/18, 17/18
* * are all pitch of 3/4 etc.)

scott