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#1
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and
plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#2
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Yeah. We just built a house and we are in the process of finishing
it. Our framer actually did an exceptional job of keeping everything very straight and plumb. Except once. We had one entry closet door that was a little out of plumb on one side; and a little out in the opposite direction on the other side. And the damned thing was a narrow 20" door. We fought the thing with me on the inside of the tiny closet and the wife outside trying to get it workable. When I started trimming, I ended up removing it, rehanging it and modifying every bit of trim to make it work. Glad I didn't have to do that on every door. RonB |
#3
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
evodawg wrote:
Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? Fortunately we did were renting but one house we lived in was the worst out of square house I ever lived in. The good thing was the lazy cat. He would lay on the floor for hours hit the ball up the floor and watch it roll back to him. After living in the house for several years we moved, to a house that was more square with the world. The cat was frustrated for months because he would have to get up and chase his ball as it would not roll back to him. |
#4
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Keith Nuttle wrote:
evodawg wrote: Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? Fortunately we did were renting but one house we lived in was the worst out of square house I ever lived in. The good thing was the lazy cat. He would lay on the floor for hours hit the ball up the floor and watch it roll back to him. After living in the house for several years we moved, to a house that was more square with the world. The cat was frustrated for months because he would have to get up and chase his ball as it would not roll back to him. 10 years ago when we were house hunting I went to a building site to talk with a builder. It was all framed up. They had used warped, bowed and/or twisted studs. Sighting down a wall it went in and out like a snake. I called it to the attention of the builder. He said, "The sheet rock will pull it all straight". I thought Yeah, right. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA There's always the temptation to let other people think you're normal. |
#5
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
10 years ago when we were house hunting I went to a building site to talk with a builder. It was all framed up. They had used warped, bowed and/or twisted studs. Sighting down a wall it went in and out like a snake. I called it to the attention of the builder. He said, "The sheet rock will pull it all straight". I thought Yeah, right. It is the the painter's responsibility to make the framing, drywall and trim look good. |
#6
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"evodawg" wrote in message ... Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? I can honestly say that I have never seen walls that are plumb or door openings that are square. I have done the prehung door thing many times on less than desirable walls and openings. Thank goodness the door openings are bigger than necessary, HUH? |
#7
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
wrote in message ... Yeah. We just built a house and we are in the process of finishing it. Our framer actually did an exceptional job of keeping everything very straight and plumb. Except once. We had one entry closet door that was a little out of plumb on one side; and a little out in the opposite direction on the other side. And the damned thing was a narrow 20" door. We fought the thing with me on the inside of the tiny closet and the wife outside trying to get it workable. When I started trimming, I ended up removing it, rehanging it and modifying every bit of trim to make it work. Glad I didn't have to do that on every door. You guys ever hear of using a persuader to move the bottom of the wall at the door openings? Often saves a lot of horsing around... even with rock hanging and taped it works pretty well. ;~) John |
#8
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message ... Yeah. We just built a house and we are in the process of finishing it. Our framer actually did an exceptional job of keeping everything very straight and plumb. Except once. We had one entry closet door that was a little out of plumb on one side; and a little out in the opposite direction on the other side. And the damned thing was a narrow 20" door. We fought the thing with me on the inside of the tiny closet and the wife outside trying to get it workable. When I started trimming, I ended up removing it, rehanging it and modifying every bit of trim to make it work. Glad I didn't have to do that on every door. You guys ever hear of using a persuader to move the bottom of the wall at the door openings? Often saves a lot of horsing around... even with rock hanging and taped it works pretty well. ;~) John hmmmm, not with trim and a wood floor already installed and the plate Ramset in. I swear some Illegal freakin Mexican Framed this house. I'm just glad they don't want Crown Molding, hahaha -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#9
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Leon wrote:
"evodawg" wrote in message ... Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? I can honestly say that I have never seen walls that are plumb or door openings that are square. I have done the prehung door thing many times on less than desirable walls and openings. Thank goodness the door openings are bigger than necessary, HUH? These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#10
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Subject
By definition a house is little more than a poorly built boat. Lew |
#11
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"Leon" wrote in message I can honestly say that I have never seen walls that are plumb or door openings that are square. Ahhh, but how many of them are out of plumb/square from the get go and how many of them have shifted over time from incorrect installation or shrinkage/wood movement? |
#12
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
evodawg wrote:
Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? If only two things are messed up in a framing job it will be the master bedroom ceiling and the front entrance door framing. basilisk |
#13
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On Wed, 06 May 2009 19:44:45 -0700, evodawg
wrote: These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. 1/2" is pretty bad but there are some things you can try depending on the size and style of trim. As has been suggested, move the bottom of the wall if possible. If you can't do that, you can try to spread the problem around the door on all four corners. Lets say you're standing outside the door the door is closed and the top lock side of the door is hanging out 1/2" past the jamb. Push the top hinge side in 1/8" past the rock and pull the bottom hinge side toward you past the rock 1/8". With the door closed, now the door should only be hanging out 1/4" at the top. Now do the opposite to the lock side jamb. Pull the top 1/8" towards you and push the bottom of the lock side jamb in 1/8". Now the door should close against the stop. Although all four corners will be off, no corner will be off more than 1/8". Basically that still makes it a pain to trim and if you are using 1x material it can still be quite difficult. If your jambs are beveled and the casing does have some relief cut, you should be able to handle the 1/8" without too much problem. If you are using mitered corners (with casing that has a detail) you'll have to adjust the angles since the casing will no longer be laying flat on the wall. I feel your pain. Good luck. Mike O. |
#14
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Mike O. wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 19:44:45 -0700, evodawg wrote: These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. 1/2" is pretty bad but there are some things you can try depending on the size and style of trim. As has been suggested, move the bottom of the wall if possible. If you can't do that, you can try to spread the problem around the door on all four corners. Lets say you're standing outside the door the door is closed and the top lock side of the door is hanging out 1/2" past the jamb. Push the top hinge side in 1/8" past the rock and pull the bottom hinge side toward you past the rock 1/8". With the door closed, now the door should only be hanging out 1/4" at the top. Now do the opposite to the lock side jamb. Pull the top 1/8" towards you and push the bottom of the lock side jamb in 1/8". Now the door should close against the stop. Although all four corners will be off, no corner will be off more than 1/8". Basically that still makes it a pain to trim and if you are using 1x material it can still be quite difficult. If your jambs are beveled and the casing does have some relief cut, you should be able to handle the 1/8" without too much problem. If you are using mitered corners (with casing that has a detail) you'll have to adjust the angles since the casing will no longer be laying flat on the wall. I feel your pain. Good luck. Mike O. Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? On one of them I just divided the difference on the lock side. The door at the top is sticking out a bit and in a bit at the bottom. I did take the stop off and reposition it. It looks alright, and I doubt anyone will notice. I already told the homeowner about the problem and he's aware of it and just told me to do the best I can. Thanks -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#15
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
basilisk wrote:
evodawg wrote: Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? If only two things are messed up in a framing job it will be the master bedroom ceiling and the front entrance door framing. basilisk I can only hope its 2 -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#16
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"evodawg" wrote in message ... Leon wrote: less than desirable walls and openings. Thank goodness the door openings are bigger than necessary, HUH? These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. Yeah, I see that quite often. AAMOF my last 2 prehung door job, presented the same problem. Remember, the casing moldings are not necessarily there to "pretty up" the door opening. |
#17
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On May 7, 2:55*am, evodawg wrote:
Mike O. wrote: On Wed, 06 May 2009 19:44:45 -0700, evodawg wrote: These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. 1/2" is pretty bad but there are some things you can try depending on the size and style of trim. *As has been suggested, move the bottom of the wall *if possible. *If you can't do that, you can try to spread the problem around the door on all four corners. Lets say you're standing outside the door the door is closed and the top lock side of the door is hanging out 1/2" past the jamb. *Push the top hinge side in 1/8" past the rock and pull the bottom hinge side toward you past the rock 1/8". *With the door closed, now the door should only be hanging out 1/4" at the top. * Now do the opposite to the lock side jamb. *Pull the top 1/8" towards you and push the bottom of the lock side jamb in 1/8". * Now the door should close against the stop. *Although all four corners will be off, no corner will be off more than 1/8". Basically that still makes it a pain to trim and if you are using 1x material it can still be quite difficult. *If your jambs are beveled and the casing does have some relief cut, you should be able to handle the 1/8" without too much problem. *If you are using mitered corners (with casing that has a detail) *you'll have to adjust the angles since the casing will no longer be laying flat on the wall. I feel your pain. Good luck. Mike O. Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? On one of them I just divided the difference on the lock side. The door at the top is sticking out a bit and in a bit at the bottom. I did take the stop off and reposition it. It looks alright, and I doubt anyone will notice. I already told the homeowner about the problem and he's aware of it and just told me to do the best I can. Thanks -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Addresshttp://rentmyhusband.biz/ Put the frame up flush with everything, then take the door off and toss it in the back yard for a few days. Stick some tile under the correct corners and toss a few cinder blocks on top. That should warp the door enough that it should look straight in the frame! :-) -Nathan |
#18
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
nhurst wrote:
On May 7, 2:55Â*am, evodawg wrote: Mike O. wrote: On Wed, 06 May 2009 19:44:45 -0700, evodawg wrote: These openings are 1/2" out from top to bottom. You know what that does to the door? Half of it is either to far in on the casing or sticking out from the casing. Then you have to reset the stop, its a mess. 1/2" is pretty bad but there are some things you can try depending on the size and style of trim. Â*As has been suggested, move the bottom of the wall Â*if possible. Â*If you can't do that, you can try to spread the problem around the door on all four corners. Lets say you're standing outside the door the door is closed and the top lock side of the door is hanging out 1/2" past the jamb. Â*Push the top hinge side in 1/8" past the rock and pull the bottom hinge side toward you past the rock 1/8". Â*With the door closed, now the door should only be hanging out 1/4" at the top. Â* Now do the opposite to the lock side jamb. Â*Pull the top 1/8" towards you and push the bottom of the lock side jamb in 1/8". Â* Now the door should close against the stop. Â*Although all four corners will be off, no corner will be off more than 1/8". Basically that still makes it a pain to trim and if you are using 1x material it can still be quite difficult. Â*If your jambs are beveled and the casing does have some relief cut, you should be able to handle the 1/8" without too much problem. Â*If you are using mitered corners (with casing that has a detail) Â*you'll have to adjust the angles since the casing will no longer be laying flat on the wall. I feel your pain. Good luck. Mike O. Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? On one of them I just divided the difference on the lock side. The door at the top is sticking out a bit and in a bit at the bottom. I did take the stop off and reposition it. It looks alright, and I doubt anyone will notice. I already told the homeowner about the problem and he's aware of it and just told me to do the best I can. Thanks -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Addresshttp://rentmyhusband.biz/ Put the frame up flush with everything, then take the door off and toss it in the back yard for a few days. Stick some tile under the correct corners and toss a few cinder blocks on top. That should warp the door enough that it should look straight in the frame! :-) -Nathan You forgot the part where you spray water all over it everyday until it forms to the correct specifications. -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#19
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On Wed, 06 May 2009 16:04:20 -0700, evodawg
wrote: Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? I lived in a house like that for 30 years. The back wall of the carport was out of plumb 1.5 inches from top to bottom. When I enclosed the carport, I ripped 2x4's into long shims to have vertical studs for hanging the finish wall. There was also some plumbing that repeatedly clogged - the drains had no slope. Probably not too bad a job of building from people who were structurally illiterate - not knowing square, plumb, or level. John |
#20
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
In the past decade, the Nashville area has had a housing boom, probably
rivaled only by Las Vegas. I don't know if it's the fact that Nashville has become a sanctuary city for illegals and the State turns a blind eye to their hiring, or the houses are just going up too darn fast and builders don't care about quality or a combination of those factors, but I've run across some ridiculous gaffs in half million dollar homes around here. A friend wanted to separate a second story (third, if you count the dug-out garage/basement at ground level) master suite into two bedrooms (as per the original home plans-- first owner left out the wall to make one huge suite). No big deal, I go in and build a simple 14-or-so foot stud wall and lift into place. My helper and I lift the wall up and discover a gap you could fit a 2x4 in sideways at the top of the wall, where it t-bones the exterior load-bearing wall. That's right, the wall is leaning out at the top, 3-1/2 inches. You don't even need a 4' level to see something like that. I'm wondering how no one caught this. We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#21
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... In the past decade, the Nashville area has had a housing boom, probably rivaled only by Las Vegas. I don't know if it's the fact that Nashville has become a sanctuary city for illegals and the State turns a blind eye to their hiring, or the houses are just going up too darn fast and builders don't care about quality or a combination of those factors, but I've run across some ridiculous gaffs in half million dollar homes around here. A friend wanted to separate a second story (third, if you count the dug-out garage/basement at ground level) master suite into two bedrooms (as per the original home plans-- first owner left out the wall to make one huge suite). No big deal, I go in and build a simple 14-or-so foot stud wall and lift into place. My helper and I lift the wall up and discover a gap you could fit a 2x4 in sideways at the top of the wall, where it t-bones the exterior load-bearing wall. That's right, the wall is leaning out at the top, 3-1/2 inches. You don't even need a 4' level to see something like that. I'm wondering how no one caught this. We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -- -MIKE- that's a design feature, not a bug |
#22
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
charlie wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... In the past decade, the Nashville area has had a housing boom, probably rivaled only by Las Vegas. I don't know if it's the fact that Nashville has become a sanctuary city for illegals and the State turns a blind eye to their hiring, or the houses are just going up too darn fast and builders don't care about quality or a combination of those factors, but I've run across some ridiculous gaffs in half million dollar homes around here. A friend wanted to separate a second story (third, if you count the dug-out garage/basement at ground level) master suite into two bedrooms (as per the original home plans-- first owner left out the wall to make one huge suite). No big deal, I go in and build a simple 14-or-so foot stud wall and lift into place. My helper and I lift the wall up and discover a gap you could fit a 2x4 in sideways at the top of the wall, where it t-bones the exterior load-bearing wall. That's right, the wall is leaning out at the top, 3-1/2 inches. You don't even need a 4' level to see something like that. I'm wondering how no one caught this. We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -- -MIKE- that's a design feature, not a bug Yeah. lol The designation was assigned somewhere between the architect and final inspection. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#23
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
In article ,
evodawg wrote: Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. ...snipped... not level or plumb is bad enough, just try it when they aren't even _flat_ -- The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. (Winston Churchill) Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#24
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:44:28 -0500, basilisk
wrote: If only two things are messed up in a framing job it will be the master bedroom ceiling and the front entrance door framing. Re. the MBR ceiling - this excerpt from a letter from a WWI soldier to his wife: "Honey, take a good look at the floor, because when I get home all you are going to see is the ceiling." Tim Douglass http://www.DouglassClan.com Definition of a teenager: God's punishment for enjoying sex. |
#25
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"charlie" wrote in message ... "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -MIKE- that's a design feature, not a bug You must work with software... LOL John |
#26
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ... A friend wanted to separate a second story (third, if you count the dug-out garage/basement at ground level) master suite into two bedrooms (as per the original home plans-- first owner left out the wall to make one huge suite). No big deal, I go in and build a simple 14-or-so foot stud wall and lift into place. My helper and I lift the wall up and discover a gap you could fit a 2x4 in sideways at the top of the wall, where it t-bones the exterior load-bearing wall. That's right, the wall is leaning out at the top, 3-1/2 inches. You don't even need a 4' level to see something like that. I'm wondering how no one caught this. We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. All right - enough of this crap. It's my turn to throw in a horror story. So - back in '94 our house suffered some snow weight damage while I was out of town every week, for months at a time. It's a log home and the walls bowed out by inches - maybe close to 6 inches at the point where the second floor joists are. No big deal - get the snow load off, call the insurance company, get a contractor on the job, and in short order it's all supposed to be fine. Well... the insurance company insisted on who I used for a contractor - didn't know any better at the time so I let them. They brought in two local hacks that clearly have never worked on a real project and produced a professional result in their lives. As part of the project, we agreed to build an addition off the back of the house - a two story 13x18 extension that would serve to buttress the back wall after pulling it back into plumb. (that's a whole 'nother story...). I brought in an excavator and had him dig a basement hole for the addition. Had him dig it 4 feet wider on all exposed sides to allow for work room, drainage tiles, drainage to the tiles, etc. I come home from a trip and find the contractor had poured the footers and laid up the block. Not a damned thing straight, plumb, or at a right angle. I called a stop work. The contractor had the audacity to tell me that there is no way to build a basement wall perpendicular to an existing wall on a log home because logs are round. After considering just how stupid this person really was, I explained to him that the foundation he was working off of was a standard block wall and those logs on top of it really did not affect his below grade work. He was lost with that concept and was a slob - the job site was an absolute disaster. Nailed boards laying all over, debris all over, no safety fence, kids, etc. Fired him. On the spot. Insurance company tried to tell me I could not fire him - but I did anyway. So - they brought in another. He could not figure out how to overcome the problems created by the first contractor, and decided (I guess...) to simply continue in the same spirit of crummy workmanship. He built the two story structure and added to it the slight problem of being out of plumb by two inches over a 20 foot span. Get this - he was proud of his work! Fired the ignorant fool. Finally I told the insurance company to cut me a check and I would contract out the work myself and GC the project. They came back with a proposal I finally accepted, which resulted in another crew on the site. One and a half years later, I finally fired the damned insurance company (Nationwide). I had been advising them of theft of materials from my job site, double billings, work either undone or done to less than generally acceptable standards, and they turned a blind eye. So - I insisted that I would be my own GC and their GC company was out of here. Submitted new invoices and estimates for the remaining work and farmed it out to people I could trust. Documented the **** out of everything. Got the job completed in a matter of months. I felt I had been pretty damned diligent - let the insurance company have their way (for way too long...) and allowed them to provide their "preferred contractors", advised them of losses they were incurring daily, closed out the job at a fraction of what the remaining schedule was, only to be... dropped on my anniversary date. Oh well... -- -Mike- |
#27
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"evodawg" wrote in message
... Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? The house I live in now is around 50 years old... The builder was a real genius and unfortunately dead or I'd sue him... It's built on a slab with no foundation underneath. the slab is at ground level in front of the house. Behind the house the property slants into the house foundation so water runs up to, down and under the house. The kitchen sink's drain, at the back of the house went into the slab but was never connected to the main drain so for 30 years we ran dishwashing water including a dishwasher down there and eroded away the dirt... The center of my house is stable. The back left corner is stable. The front left corner is down 4". The front right corner is down 4.5" and the rear right corner was down almost 8". I just finished lifting the house and re-leveling the entire thing, putting in foundations and new basement walls as well as a poured floor and a channel around the exterior of the floor to catch any water that may someday be there. Regraded the outside of the house. Fixed the aluminum siding (half was installed pre-settle and half post-settle!) While lifting, the copper drain pipe from the second floor separated from the main drain. The cast iron did not. Had to fix that. I've had a storage container in my driveway for 6 months. The entire 2nd floor was done after the house settled. Half of the first floor was remodeled mid-settle. I have 14 doors to rehang inside and two entrance doors. I have a garage door to hang but the slab is cracked and heaved 3" in the center of the doorway so I have to fix that first... I have to fix stress cracks, replace windows, fix buckled siding and paint it all. I have until the end of June to do this. Why? Because I want to move before my two kids start school in September. I haven't decided whether I'm balding or just loosing my hair. grin -- Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com V8013-R |
#28
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"charlie" wrote in message ... "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -MIKE- that's a design feature, not a bug You must work with software... LOL John Kinda sorry I started this thread. Did realize there's some really ****ty workmanship out there and wondered how any of them keep their license. Guess that's why in tough times the ones with the reputation are still busy. I seem busier then when things were going nuts. I know I'm in a business that is sometimes looked at like lawyers, used car salesman, and Politicians. I just do the best I can and at the end ask the customer if their happy and if there's something they're not happy with? I usually get a big smile and a NO. Do your homework!!!!! -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#29
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"evodawg" wrote in message ... Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? HA Ha. You should see some of the old buildings i work on. The level wasn't invented when they went up, and neither was the straight timber. Last year I was working on a floor wearing hard plastic knee pads and I found if I put too much weight on my knees I slid down the floor and hit the wall. Tim W |
#30
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Last year I
was working on a floor wearing hard plastic knee pads and I found if I put too much weight on my knees I slid down the floor and hit the wall. Tim W SPEW! lmao! -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#31
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On Wed, 06 May 2009 16:04:20 -0700, evodawg
wrote: Any of you guys tried to install pre-hung doors when walls aren't level and plumb? What a pain in the ass. Installed 5 and they took forever. I have never seen a house this bad. Nothing is square or plumb and I get to install the kitchen cabinets too. Oh I can't wait!! I wonder if the framers even used a level? I have installed a few. Pre-hung doors are fairly straightforward. I make my own wooden shims from the scrap pile, after seeing what they cost. Rough framing is rarely square and plumb. And walls are bowed or sunken, a challenge when installing crown molding. I am currently fixing a door jamb so the trim can be installed properly. Jobs usually take longer than you might think, and when it's my house I'll fuss with it until it is right. If a door (or drawer) does not open/close sweetly, you'll be reminded every time you use it. |
#32
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"evodawg" wrote in message ... John Grossbohlin wrote: "charlie" wrote in message ... "-MIKE-" wrote in message ... We go outside to look at the wall from the exterior... it's brick. I look straight up the wall, from the garage door opening, and can see each row of bricks is sitting out further than the next, by at least 1/8 inch. The wall looks like a little staircase with tiny steps going in reverse, up the entire wall. -MIKE- that's a design feature, not a bug You must work with software... LOL John Kinda sorry I started this thread. Did realize there's some really ****ty workmanship out there and wondered how any of them keep their license. Guess that's why in tough times the ones with the reputation are still busy. I seem busier then when things were going nuts. I know I'm in a business that is sometimes looked at like lawyers, used car salesman, and Politicians. I just do the best I can and at the end ask the customer if their happy and if there's something they're not happy with? I usually get a big smile and a NO. Do your homework!!!!! Reminds me of a situation maybe 10-15 years ago when a bunch of McMansions were being built where my favorite hunting woods once stood. There was a real dumb a... I knew of from high school working as a laborer on some of those houses... spent his youth doing burglaries, and using and selling drugs. The guy who owned the contracting business wouldn't let the DA do anything resembling thinking work. This because the DA ruined material and pretty much everything needed rework. I didn't see the DA around for a few years and then ran into him in a restaurant. He proceeded to tell me he had been earning a 6 figure income for the prior two years building western style homes in Japan! I didn't know how to respond to that information as it was unfathomable... Probably put a serious hurting on the industry in Japan too once people started to understand what garbage work the guy really did! LOL My problem is I do construction like it's furniture. ;~) I know it, and I also know it's nuts! LOL The facia and soffits on my house are, after renovation, perfectly level in all directions and in one plane... come put a laser level on it and see for yourself! LOL When the day comes that all the interior renovation work is completed it will be of similar caliber... assuming I get it all done in the next 20-25 years. ;~) John |
#33
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
John Grossbohlin wrote:
My problem is I do construction like it's furniture. ;~) I know it, and I also know it's nuts! LOL The facia and soffits on my house are, after renovation, perfectly level in all directions and in one plane... come put a laser level on it and see for yourself! The sad part is that you have to jokingly refer to that kind of attention to detain as doing it "like it's furniture." There is no reason for it to be any different. I've always said, "There are a million ways to do something, and one right way." You did it the right way. There is no reason for anything in a house to be out of plumb or out of square or not in a straight line. I think the main issues are unskilled, often illegal, workers, coupled with the fact that there are no GC's who do everything or use the same crews anymore. If the framers know they're going to catch heck from the drywallers, and the drywallers know they're going to catch heck from the trim guys and cabinet guys, and the plumbers and HVAC guys know that the GC is going to rip them a new one for cutting giant holes in the wrong places in joists, then they have accountability. But they're all fly-by-nighters now and no one knows or cares who did the job or who screwed it up. The "Home Builder" is an LLC and he'll cookie-cutter as many McMansions as fast as he can, make a couple million, go bankrupt and move to the Keys until he runs out of money... then start up all over again under a different name. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#34
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
On Wed, 06 May 2009 23:55:33 -0700, evodawg
wrote: Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? Nail the jamb near the top and bottom of each jamb side near the hinges on that side and about the same place on the lock side. Get the door pretty much set (level and plumb) with your shims. Only the 4 nails are still holding things close. Tap the jambs in or out, where you need them, and add nails as you go. Check your clearance along the way. Mike O. |
#35
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Mike O. wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 23:55:33 -0700, evodawg wrote: Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem I have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this shifting? Nail the jamb near the top and bottom of each jamb side near the hinges on that side and about the same place on the lock side. Get the door pretty much set (level and plumb) with your shims. Only the 4 nails are still holding things close. Tap the jambs in or out, where you need them, and add nails as you go. Check your clearance along the way. Mike O. That's the way I normally do it. But when the wall is out by 1/2" the other side is a bit difficult to keep the door in line with the stops or drywall edge. Either the bottom of door sticks out of the jam or the top is to far inside the jam. Then it's time to get the Sawzall out and readjust the hinge side. -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
#36
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Phisherman wrote in
: I have installed a few. Pre-hung doors are fairly straightforward. I make my own wooden shims from the scrap pile, after seeing what they cost. Rough framing is rarely square and plumb. And walls are bowed or sunken, a challenge when installing crown molding. I am currently fixing a door jamb so the trim can be installed properly. Jobs usually take longer than you might think, and when it's my house I'll fuss with it until it is right. If a door (or drawer) does not open/close sweetly, you'll be reminded every time you use it. I was in a motel one time where the bathroom door shut sweetly. I've never seen it before, and unfortunately will probably never see it again. The door simply shut quietly, and with a little reveal all around. It really didn't need the trim stop piece in the middle, the fit was so perfect. We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load. Puckdropper -- This signature was typed manually. |
#37
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load. Any chance it's caused by wood shrinkage/movement or can you now see some space between hinge leaves? |
#38
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
In , Upscale dropped this bit of wisdom: "Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load. Any chance it's caused by wood shrinkage/movement or can you now see some space between hinge leaves? Like Puckdropper, I have much the same problem. My slab is still perfect (steel), however, the lock side jamb has warped such that it takes some grunting to open or close. I have tried the big screw to the problem area with no improvement. Anyone know of a good way to prevent this happening that I can apply to my new pre-hung door?? P D Q |
#39
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
Mike Marlow wrote:
One and a half years later, I finally fired the damned insurance company (Nationwide). snip I felt I had been pretty damned diligent - let the insurance company have their way (for way too long...) and allowed them to provide their "preferred contractors", advised them of losses they were incurring daily, closed out the job at a fraction of what the remaining schedule was, only to be... dropped on my anniversary date. Oh well... How can that be? Nationwide is "On Your Side"! -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
#40
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Doors and Out of Plumb Walls
PDQ wrote:
In , Upscale dropped this bit of wisdom: "Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load. Any chance it's caused by wood shrinkage/movement or can you now see some space between hinge leaves? Like Puckdropper, I have much the same problem. My slab is still perfect (steel), however, the lock side jamb has warped such that it takes some grunting to open or close. I have tried the big screw to the problem area with no improvement. Anyone know of a good way to prevent this happening that I can apply to my new pre-hung door?? P D Q Sounds like it's time to get out the planner and build some muscle. -- "You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK" Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586 Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/ |
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