In ,
evodawg dropped this bit of wisdom:
PDQ wrote:



In ,
Upscale dropped this bit of wisdom:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year
old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't
installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the
load.

Any chance it's caused by wood shrinkage/movement or can you now see
some space between hinge leaves?

Like Puckdropper, I have much the same problem. My slab is still
perfect (steel), however, the lock side jamb has warped such that it
takes some grunting to open or close. I have tried the big screw to
the problem area with no improvement. Anyone know of a good way to
prevent this happening that I can apply to my new pre-hung door??

P D Q
Sounds like it's time to get out the planner and build some muscle.

Already did that and gave up when I detetrmined how much really had to disappear.
Didn't want to pull the jambs just to shave off some swelling.

That is why I now have a new pre-hung door to install. I have been toying with the idea of painting the backside of the jambs in an effort to seal them before installation.

P D Q

On Fri, 8 May 2009 12:32:53 -0300, "PDQ" wrote:

Like Puckdropper, I have much the same problem. My slab is still perfect (steel), however, the lock
side jamb has warped such that it takes some grunting to open or close.
I have tried the big screw to the problem area with no improvement.
Anyone know of a good way to prevent this happening that I can apply to my new pre-hung door??

You might try taking the trim off the lock side and see what's holding
it from moving with your screw. It may be that some of the insulation
needs to be removed (especially if it's foam) or, worst case, it may
be up against the framing already.

Mike O.

On 08 May 2009 06:55:01 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old
that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed
straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load.

It's pretty rare that the hinges would give up in a year.

What's it doing?
Can you see poor clearances anywhere now?
Does it seem like one side is dropping?
Could the door be warping?

Mike O.

PDQ wrote:



In ,
evodawg dropped this bit of wisdom:
PDQ wrote:



In ,
Upscale dropped this bit of wisdom:
"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year
old that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't
installed straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the
load.

Any chance it's caused by wood shrinkage/movement or can you now see
some space between hinge leaves?

Like Puckdropper, I have much the same problem. My slab is still
perfect (steel), however, the lock side jamb has warped such that it
takes some grunting to open or close. I have tried the big screw to
the problem area with no improvement. Anyone know of a good way to
prevent this happening that I can apply to my new pre-hung door??

P D Q
Sounds like it's time to get out the planner and build some muscle.

Already did that and gave up when I detetrmined how much really had to
disappear. Didn't want to pull the jambs just to shave off some swelling.

That is why I now have a new pre-hung door to install. I have been toying
with the idea of painting the backside of the jambs in an effort to seal
them before installation.

P D Q
Never heard of that, think that might be going a little to far. Just install
it with enough of a gap that if it does swell you're covered. I live in a
dry area and when it rains it does swell. I leave about 1/8th of an inch.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Mike O. wrote:
On 08 May 2009 06:55:01 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old
that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed
straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load.

It's pretty rare that the hinges would give up in a year.

What's it doing?
Can you see poor clearances anywhere now?
Does it seem like one side is dropping?
Could the door be warping?

Mike O.

Those cheap pre-hungs have such thin casements that they can bow out if
not shimmed and nailed in enough.

Around here, it's very common to see them installed with only the
pre-attached trim nailed through the drywall and *no* nails or shims
through the casement. Not kidding.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

Mike O. wrote:
On 08 May 2009 06:55:01 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old
that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed
straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load.

It's pretty rare that the hinges would give up in a year.

What's it doing?
Can you see poor clearances anywhere now?
Does it seem like one side is dropping?
Could the door be warping?

Mike O.

Those cheap pre-hungs have such thin casements that they can bow out if
not shimmed and nailed in enough.

Around here, it's very common to see them installed with only the
pre-attached trim nailed through the drywall and *no* nails or shims
through the casement. Not kidding.



Ive seen that in your lower cost tract house, (500,000 Moderate home price
here a few years back). No shims and the casement or trim holding the door
in place. I couldn't believe it when I first saw it. I thought what a neat
trick, to bad it doesn't work.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Mike O. wrote in
:

On 08 May 2009 06:55:01 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

We've got a prehung door in the house now that is less than a year old
that's already having trouble shutting. Either it wasn't installed
straight enough or the hinges were insufficient for the load.

It's pretty rare that the hinges would give up in a year.

What's it doing?
Can you see poor clearances anywhere now?
Does it seem like one side is dropping?
Could the door be warping?

Mike O.

The door misses the catch consistently, and has to be lifted via the knob
to engage it.

I just checked with the level. The frame is straight, but installed
skewed. Over 4', the frame is out of plumb by 1/4". (I bet this is
where the problem is.)

The hinges aren't that great either, the top hinge allows quite a bit of
play between the two halves. Lifting the door can align or mis-align the
hinges by 1/32-1/16". Several of the frame-side screws have stripped
out, and a few of them were working their way out. The door-side screws
were all tight, though.

Puckdropper
--
Deep drawer: A shallow drawer with thought provoking words.

On Fri, 08 May 2009 20:20:17 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

Around here, it's very common to see them installed with only the
pre-attached trim nailed through the drywall and *no* nails or shims
through the casement. Not kidding.

The exterior doors on the manufactured home I live in were pretty much
installed that way. They had a dozen or so 3" staples through the
brick-mould and that was about it. Getting those doors to function in
anything like a "normal" manner took a bit of doing.

--
Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

I started out with nothing and after years of hard work have finally managed to double it!

The door misses the catch consistently, and has to be lifted via the knob
to engage it.

I just checked with the level. The frame is straight, but installed
skewed. Over 4', the frame is out of plumb by 1/4". (I bet this is
where the problem is.)

The hinges aren't that great either, the top hinge allows quite a bit of
play between the two halves. Lifting the door can align or mis-align the
hinges by 1/32-1/16". Several of the frame-side screws have stripped
out, and a few of them were working their way out. The door-side screws
were all tight, though.

Puckdropper

I'm sure you know this, but someone lurking may not.

It's a good idea to replace one hinge screw (casement side) per hinge,
with a long (3+") screw, that goes all the way through the casement,
shims, jack stud and king stud. For heavy doors, like thick solid wood
panel doors, replacing two per hinge can do wonders for keeping
everything straight and operating properly.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Around here, it's very common to see them installed with only the
pre-attached trim nailed through the drywall and *no* nails or shims
through the casement. Not kidding.

The exterior doors on the manufactured home I live in were pretty much
installed that way. They had a dozen or so 3" staples through the
brick-mould and that was about it. Getting those doors to function in
anything like a "normal" manner took a bit of doing.

--
Tim Douglass


I think I've seen that, too.
I talked to a rep from a door company, who was at Lowes for whatever
reason. I was asking him about those "clam-shell" doors with the
pre-installed trim. He said those staples were never intended to be the
final attachment fasteners. He said they're just in there to hold the
trim on through shipping and to help square the door during
installation. They always recommend finish nails installed on site.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 09 May 2009 04:48:29 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

The door misses the catch consistently, and has to be lifted via the knob
to engage it.

I just checked with the level. The frame is straight, but installed
skewed. Over 4', the frame is out of plumb by 1/4". (I bet this is
where the problem is.)

The hinges aren't that great either, the top hinge allows quite a bit of
play between the two halves. Lifting the door can align or mis-align the
hinges by 1/32-1/16". Several of the frame-side screws have stripped
out, and a few of them were working their way out. The door-side screws
were all tight, though.

I've seen the hinge screws come loose on jambs before, especially on
particle board jambs. Probably stripped when they were manufactured.
You can try to glue some toothpicks or something in the holes and try
the screws again. If they still strip you can use some long utility
screws and go into the trimmer stud. Either method might pull the
door back toward the hinge side jamb enough to let it latch.

If not, and the clearances on the sides look okay but you see more gap
at the header on the lock side than the hinge side you can take the
trim off the hinge side (and maybe the two header pieces) and pry from
the bottom to lift the hinge side jamb.
This won't fix the out of plumb situation but it will let you put the
trim back where it was (except for height) so you don't have to paint
the walls again.

We had a pretty similar situation on a new house. We had trimmed the
house and after about 6 months the builder called to tell us that
there was a door that would no longer latch.
I went over to fix it. The door was at the head of the stairs and
sure enough the hinge side had dropped and the door wouldn't latch.
I got out my levels and the door was still plumb but the header was no
longer level. I re-set the door and told the builder that I thought
that the floor was sagging on one side of the stairs. He didn't
really think so but we got it fixed and all was okay.
Within the next year we had repaired the same door in three different
houses all of which were the same plan. On the last two you could see
the cracks in the sheet rock running from the corner of the opening
towards the ceiling. He finally believed me but it took him a while.
After that they extended the stair wall in the basement to pick up one
more floor truss. We never had to fix another one.

Mike O.

On Sat, 09 May 2009 11:52:33 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

The door misses the catch consistently, and has to be lifted via the knob
to engage it.

I just checked with the level. The frame is straight, but installed
skewed. Over 4', the frame is out of plumb by 1/4". (I bet this is
where the problem is.)

The hinges aren't that great either, the top hinge allows quite a bit of
play between the two halves. Lifting the door can align or mis-align the
hinges by 1/32-1/16". Several of the frame-side screws have stripped
out, and a few of them were working their way out. The door-side screws
were all tight, though.

Puckdropper

I'm sure you know this, but someone lurking may not.

It's a good idea to replace one hinge screw (casement side) per hinge,
with a long (3+") screw, that goes all the way through the casement,
shims, jack stud and king stud. For heavy doors, like thick solid wood
panel doors, replacing two per hinge can do wonders for keeping
everything straight and operating properly.

Make sure you put shims behind the casement right where the screws go
before driving those long screws. Most cheap door installations don't
have any shims behind the hinges, so that whole side flexes and if you
put a long screw in you will make things much worse.

DAMHIKT

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

My laptop knows me too well - it just announced "your battery is low!"

Tim Douglass wrote:
It's a good idea to replace one hinge screw (casement side) per hinge,
with a long (3+") screw, that goes all the way through the casement,
shims, jack stud and king stud. For heavy doors, like thick solid wood
panel doors, replacing two per hinge can do wonders for keeping
everything straight and operating properly.

Make sure you put shims behind the casement right where the screws go
before driving those long screws. Most cheap door installations don't
have any shims behind the hinges, so that whole side flexes and if you
put a long screw in you will make things much worse.


Yes, I should have typed shims in all caps. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mike O. wrote in
:


I've seen the hinge screws come loose on jambs before, especially on
particle board jambs. Probably stripped when they were manufactured.
You can try to glue some toothpicks or something in the holes and try
the screws again. If they still strip you can use some long utility
screws and go into the trimmer stud. Either method might pull the
door back toward the hinge side jamb enough to let it latch.

If not, and the clearances on the sides look okay but you see more gap
at the header on the lock side than the hinge side you can take the
trim off the hinge side (and maybe the two header pieces) and pry from
the bottom to lift the hinge side jamb.
This won't fix the out of plumb situation but it will let you put the
trim back where it was (except for height) so you don't have to paint
the walls again.

We had a pretty similar situation on a new house. We had trimmed the
house and after about 6 months the builder called to tell us that
there was a door that would no longer latch.
I went over to fix it. The door was at the head of the stairs and
sure enough the hinge side had dropped and the door wouldn't latch.
I got out my levels and the door was still plumb but the header was no
longer level. I re-set the door and told the builder that I thought
that the floor was sagging on one side of the stairs. He didn't
really think so but we got it fixed and all was okay.
Within the next year we had repaired the same door in three different
houses all of which were the same plan. On the last two you could see
the cracks in the sheet rock running from the corner of the opening
towards the ceiling. He finally believed me but it took him a while.
After that they extended the stair wall in the basement to pick up one
more floor truss. We never had to fix another one.

Mike O.


Thanks for all the advice Mike. When I get a chance, I'll pull the trim
off the hinge side and get a good idea what's there. Then I'll take your
advice about replacing one screw per hinge with a 3" screw that goes
through a shim.

The catch only misses by a small amount, so as long as the door is stable
moving the catch plate would probably permanently solve the problem.

Puckdropper
--
Running Windows 7 RC. It's better than Vista.

-MIKE- wrote in
:


I'm sure you know this, but someone lurking may not.

It's a good idea to replace one hinge screw (casement side) per hinge,
with a long (3+") screw, that goes all the way through the casement,
shims, jack stud and king stud. For heavy doors, like thick solid wood
panel doors, replacing two per hinge can do wonders for keeping
everything straight and operating properly.


That sounds like a good suggestion, -MIKE-. I plan on taking it.

Puckdropper

Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in
:

I'm sure you know this, but someone lurking may not.

It's a good idea to replace one hinge screw (casement side) per hinge,
with a long (3+") screw, that goes all the way through the casement,
shims, jack stud and king stud. For heavy doors, like thick solid wood
panel doors, replacing two per hinge can do wonders for keeping
everything straight and operating properly.


That sounds like a good suggestion, -MIKE-. I plan on taking it.

Puckdropper

Like another guy reiterated, make sure you shim it or it will keep
pulling.

That actually can come in handy. When I run across a door sticking in
its jam, first thing I try is putting a long screw in the opposite hinge
to see if it will pull back in line. Works a lot of the time.

Usually, if it were done to start, it would never had sagged.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Mike O." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 May 2009 23:55:33 -0700, evodawg
wrote:

Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem
I
have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this
shifting?

Nail the jamb near the top and bottom of each jamb side near the
hinges on that side and about the same place on the lock side. Get
the door pretty much set (level and plumb) with your shims. Only the
4 nails are still holding things close. Tap the jambs in or out,
where you need them, and add nails as you go. Check your clearance
along the way.

I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!

"evodawg" wrote in message
...

Kinda sorry I started this thread. Did realize there's some really ****ty
workmanship out there and wondered how any of them keep their license.
Guess that's why in tough times the ones with the reputation are still
busy. I seem busier then when things were going nuts. I know I'm in a
business that is sometimes looked at like lawyers, used car salesman, and
Politicians. I just do the best I can and at the end ask the customer if

How dare you spell "politician" with a capital "P"!

1D10T wrote:


How dare you spell "politician" with a capital "P"!


You're right Lowercase applies

1D10T wrote:
"Mike O." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 May 2009 23:55:33 -0700, evodawg
wrote:

Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only problem
I
have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all this
shifting?
Nail the jamb near the top and bottom of each jamb side near the
hinges on that side and about the same place on the lock side. Get
the door pretty much set (level and plumb) with your shims. Only the
4 nails are still holding things close. Tap the jambs in or out,
where you need them, and add nails as you go. Check your clearance
along the way.

I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!


Just curious. What do you do to the screw heads?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
1D10T wrote:
"Mike O." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 May 2009 23:55:33 -0700, evodawg
wrote:

Thanks for that detailed explanation of what I should do. The only
problem I
have with it is how do you hold the door frame when you're doing all
this
shifting?
Nail the jamb near the top and bottom of each jamb side near the
hinges on that side and about the same place on the lock side. Get
the door pretty much set (level and plumb) with your shims. Only the
4 nails are still holding things close. Tap the jambs in or out,
where you need them, and add nails as you go. Check your clearance
along the way.

I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!

Just curious. What do you do to the screw heads?

Probably what you do to the nail heads. It's no more of an issue with screws
than with nails. As with nails, I do try to place them where they'll be
under the stop molding, which also leaves nail heads to be dealt with.

1D10T wrote:
I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!
Just curious. What do you do to the screw heads?

Probably what you do to the nail heads. It's no more of an issue with screws
than with nails. As with nails, I do try to place them where they'll be
under the stop molding, which also leaves nail heads to be dealt with.


Ever try those trim screws with the little heads?
I've used them on other things and they're nice, but easy to pull through.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
1D10T wrote:
I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!
Just curious. What do you do to the screw heads?

Probably what you do to the nail heads. It's no more of an issue with
screws than with nails. As with nails, I do try to place them where
they'll be under the stop molding, which also leaves nail heads to be
dealt with.

Ever try those trim screws with the little heads?
I've used them on other things and they're nice, but easy to pull through.

No I haven't, but with the small heads they're probably as bad as using
casing or finishing nails. The two reasons I like screws are the head size
and the ability to move or loosen them easily.

1D10T wrote:
and the ability to move or loosen them easily.


Tru dat.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On May 10, 3:30*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
1D10T wrote:
and the ability to move or loosen them easily.

I used them to install window jamb extensions to accommodate our 2x6
walls. They pulled the jamb in nice and tight but I also used glue.
Basically they acted as clamps.

RonB

On Sun, 10 May 2009 15:15:02 -0500, "1D10T" wrote:


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
1D10T wrote:
I never use nails to install/repair a door. Screws for me!
Just curious. What do you do to the screw heads?

Probably what you do to the nail heads. It's no more of an issue with
screws than with nails. As with nails, I do try to place them where
they'll be under the stop molding, which also leaves nail heads to be
dealt with.

Ever try those trim screws with the little heads?
I've used them on other things and they're nice, but easy to pull through.

No I haven't, but with the small heads they're probably as bad as using
casing or finishing nails. The two reasons I like screws are the head size
and the ability to move or loosen them easily.

I've used a bunch of trim-head #7 SS square head recess screws for
such things. They do have the (dis)advantages you state; small head
and potential to modify the installation. However, the screw head
isn't small enough disappear. They have their use and beat nails all
to hell, but aren't a panacea. They don't replace the big honkin'
screw through the hinges either. I too had an exterior door (almost)
held on by the brickmold). :-(