It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

None of the tree books I have that describe Horsechestnut say anything
about the properties of the lumber, but they do say that it's an
"introduced" member of the Buckeye family, native to Asia and
southeastern Europe. However, "The Encyclopedia of Wood" by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:

========
Buckeye consists of two species, yellow buckeye (Aesculus octandra) and
Ohio buckeye (a. glabra). These species range from the Appalachians of
Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina westward to Kansas, Oklahoma,
and Texas. Buckeye is not customarily separated from other species when
manufactured into lumber and can be used for the same purposes as aspen
(Populus), basswood (Tilia), and sapwood of yellow-poplar (Liriodendron
tulipifera).

The white sapwood of buckeye merges gradually into the creamy or
yellowish white heartwood. The wood is uniform in texture, generally
straight grained, light in weight, weak when used as a beam, soft, and
low in shock resistance. It is rated low on machinability such as
shaping, mortising, boring, and turning.

Buckeye is suitable for pulping for paper; in lumber form, it has been
used principally for furniture, boxes and crates, food containers,
wooden ware, novelties, and planing mill products.
========

Based on all that, I don't think I would bother having it milled...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Steve Turner wrote:
wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?
If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

None of the tree books I have that describe Horsechestnut say anything
about the properties of the lumber, but they do say that it's an
"introduced" member of the Buckeye family, native to Asia and
southeastern Europe. However, "The Encyclopedia of Wood" by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:

========
Buckeye consists of two species, yellow buckeye (Aesculus octandra) and
Ohio buckeye (a. glabra). These species range from the Appalachians of
Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina westward to Kansas, Oklahoma,
and Texas. Buckeye is not customarily separated from other species when
manufactured into lumber and can be used for the same purposes as aspen
(Populus), basswood (Tilia), and sapwood of yellow-poplar (Liriodendron
tulipifera).

The white sapwood of buckeye merges gradually into the creamy or
yellowish white heartwood. The wood is uniform in texture, generally
straight grained, light in weight, weak when used as a beam, soft, and
low in shock resistance. It is rated low on machinability such as
shaping, mortising, boring, and turning.

Buckeye is suitable for pulping for paper; in lumber form, it has been
used principally for furniture, boxes and crates, food containers,
wooden ware, novelties, and planing mill products.
========

Based on all that, I don't think I would bother having it milled...

Sounds like it might be good for carving though, depending on how soft
it is. You mention Aspen along with Poplar. Poplar is reasonably hard
while aspen is much like basswood.

"Steve Turner" wrote:

Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:

Don't know about the DofA definition, but in Ohio a Buckeye is defined
as a worthless nut.

OSU fans not included.grin

Lew

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:57:53 -0500, Steve Turner
wrote:

wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

None of the tree books I have that describe Horsechestnut say anything
about the properties of the lumber, but they do say that it's an
"introduced" member of the Buckeye family, native to Asia and
southeastern Europe. However, "The Encyclopedia of Wood" by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:

========
Buckeye consists of two species, yellow buckeye (Aesculus octandra) and
Ohio buckeye (a. glabra). These species range from the Appalachians of
Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina westward to Kansas, Oklahoma,
and Texas. Buckeye is not customarily separated from other species when
manufactured into lumber and can be used for the same purposes as aspen
(Populus), basswood (Tilia), and sapwood of yellow-poplar (Liriodendron
tulipifera).

The white sapwood of buckeye merges gradually into the creamy or
yellowish white heartwood. The wood is uniform in texture, generally
straight grained, light in weight, weak when used as a beam, soft, and
low in shock resistance. It is rated low on machinability such as
shaping, mortising, boring, and turning.

Buckeye is suitable for pulping for paper; in lumber form, it has been
used principally for furniture, boxes and crates, food containers,
wooden ware, novelties, and planing mill products.
========

Based on all that, I don't think I would bother having it milled...

I don't want it myself. I used to do a little woodworking, but not
anymore. I just thought I'd see if is worth offering it to anyone.

It sounds like it is too soft for most uses.

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
: wrote:
: It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
: taken out. Is the wood good for anything?
:
: If so, who might want it?
:
: The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
: there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several
places.
:
: None of the tree books I have that describe Horsechestnut say
anything
: about the properties of the lumber, but they do say that it's an
: "introduced" member of the Buckeye family, native to Asia and
: southeastern Europe. However, "The Encyclopedia of Wood" by the
U.S.
: Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:
:
: ========
: Buckeye consists of two species, yellow buckeye (Aesculus octandra)
and
: Ohio buckeye (a. glabra). These species range from the
Appalachians of
: Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina westward to Kansas,
Oklahoma,
: and Texas. Buckeye is not customarily separated from other species
when
: manufactured into lumber and can be used for the same purposes as
aspen
: (Populus), basswood (Tilia), and sapwood of yellow-poplar
(Liriodendron
: tulipifera).
:
: The white sapwood of buckeye merges gradually into the creamy or
: yellowish white heartwood. The wood is uniform in texture,
generally
: straight grained, light in weight, weak when used as a beam, soft,
and
: low in shock resistance. It is rated low on machinability such as
: shaping, mortising, boring, and turning.
:
: Buckeye is suitable for pulping for paper; in lumber form, it has
been
: used principally for furniture, boxes and crates, food containers,
: wooden ware, novelties, and planing mill products.
: ========
:
: Based on all that, I don't think I would bother having it milled...
:
: --

If it's that similar to basswood, someone who does a lot of carving
or whittling might be interested in it.

Len

In article , wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

I've never done any woodworking with it -- but it makes *damn* good firewood.
If you're anywhere near Indianapolis, I'd be happy to take it for that
purpose.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:29:55 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

I've never done any woodworking with it -- but it makes *damn* good firewood.
If you're anywhere near Indianapolis, I'd be happy to take it for that
purpose.

About 2,000 miles away ;-) We're not allowed to burn anything in
fireplaces around here. :-(

Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.


On Mar 17, 9:50*am, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:29:55 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

I've never done any woodworking with it -- but it makes *damn* good firewood.
If you're anywhere near Indianapolis, I'd be happy to take it for that
purpose.

About 2,000 miles away ;-) We're not allowed to burn anything in
fireplaces around here. :-(

In article , wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:29:55 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

I've never done any woodworking with it -- but it makes *damn* good firewood.
If you're anywhere near Indianapolis, I'd be happy to take it for that
purpose.

About 2,000 miles away ;-)

Too far for me to bother bringing a trailer, I guess. g

We're not allowed to burn anything in
fireplaces around here. :-(

People's Republic of California?

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:26:11 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"Steve Turner" wrote:

Department of Agriculture has this to say about Buckeye:

Don't know about the DofA definition, but in Ohio a Buckeye is defined
as a worthless nut.

OSU fans not included.grin

Lew



I'm an OSU graduate and I witnessed plenty of nuts along High Street,
especially after beating Michigan in football. Woody Hayes was a nut
of another kind, all by himself. The buckeyes are very good for
dropping down crawdad holes.

(Doug Miller) writes:
In article , wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:29:55 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

I've never done any woodworking with it -- but it makes *damn* good firewood.
If you're anywhere near Indianapolis, I'd be happy to take it for that
purpose.

About 2,000 miles away ;-)

Too far for me to bother bringing a trailer, I guess. g

We're not allowed to burn anything in
fireplaces around here. :-(

People's Republic of California?

Fires and fireplaces are legal in California. Some municipalities no
longer allow fireplaces in new construction (but that's not state-wide)
and some areas forbid burning on nights when there is an inversion layer
(10 or so nights per winter) (also not state-wide).

soctt

Nucular Reaction wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

My plan is to agree with everything Obama says or does because thank God
he isn't Bush. Yep, that's my plan....

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Phisherman" wrote:

I'm an OSU graduate and I witnessed plenty of nuts along High
Street,
especially after beating Michigan in football. Woody Hayes was a
nut
of another kind, all by himself. The buckeyes are very good for
dropping down crawdad holes.

Have two sons that are both OSU graduates.

Love that bumper sticker you see in Columbus:

Directions to Ann Arbor,
North till you smell it,
West till you step in it.

If you travelled north west Ohio during football season as I did, you
best not go into a restaurant or bar before you found out if it was a
Buckeye or Wolverine establishment.

They take their college football very seriously.

Lew

"Scott Lurndal" wrote:

Fires and fireplaces are legal in California. Some municipalities
no
longer allow fireplaces in new construction (but that's not
state-wide)
and some areas forbid burning on nights when there is an inversion
layer
(10 or so nights per winter) (also not state-wide).

An even larger threat is posed by the possibility of an errant spark
during fire season.

You can have a 10,000 acre brush fire in a heart beat, especially if
the winds are blowing.

Lew

Common Uses
Baskets
Boxes and crates
Broom handles
Brush backs & handles
Brush backs & handles
Building materials
Cabinetmaking
Carvings
Decorative plywood
Flooring
Food containers
Furniture
Handles: general
Interior construction
Interior trim
Moldings
Plywood
Pulp/Paper products
Sporting Goods
Tables
Textile equipment
Toys
Turnery
Veneer
Veneer: decorative

Easy to saw, very easy to glue. Good results in Moulding. Very Stable.

Easy to work with hand tools. Fair to good results with turning or some report easy.

That is a good idea.

wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

On Mar 17, 11:57*pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:
Common Uses
Baskets
Boxes and crates
Broom handles
Brush backs & handles
Brush backs & handles
Building materials
Cabinetmaking
Carvings
Decorative plywood
Flooring
Food containers
Furniture
Handles: general
Interior construction
Interior trim
Moldings
Plywood
Pulp/Paper products
Sporting Goods
Tables
Textile equipment
Toys
Turnery
Veneer
Veneer: decorative

Easy to saw, very easy to glue. Good results in Moulding. *Very Stable.

Easy to work with hand tools. Fair to good results with turning or some report easy.

That is a good idea.

wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

If so, who might want it?

The trunk is about 2-3 feet across near the bottom. It looks like
there might be some interesting burl-like pieces in several places.

A LOT like poplar. Watch the bugs.

On 17 Mar, 01:05, wrote:
It looks like we are going to have to a large horse chestnut tree
taken out. Is the wood good for anything?

Sweet chestnut yes, horse chestnut not so good.

It's OK. It's not terrible, but it's not good either. It's usable for
most things, but there's always something that's better suited, better
looking, or better lasting. You'd use it if you have it, but you
wouldn't seek it out. It's also a bit variable and much depends on
your individual tree.

(I'm in the UK, your local climate and species might change this)

As to carving it, I'd expect it to be workable but quite hard going.
It's certainly not basswood.

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

Maybe our government will start taxing the generation of sawdust of
various species because until we woodworkers liberate it from it's
storage in a board where it is safely compressed and kept from
becoming an irritant to some people it is of no harm. But once we have
expanded it into sawdust, we should pay a tax to offset the cost to
society for our injurious behavior.

On Mar 17, 1:52*pm, Nucular Reaction wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

wrote:
Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

Maybe our government will start taxing the generation of sawdust of
various species because until we woodworkers liberate it from it's
storage in a board where it is safely compressed and kept from
becoming an irritant to some people it is of no harm. But once we have
expanded it into sawdust, we should pay a tax to offset the cost to
society for our injurious behavior.

And so it already is, at least in Alabama, the bigger wood working
industries in the state have emissions from dust collectors, cyclones and
baghouses tested for volume of wood particulates and are charged by
weight for actual emissions.

See dreams can come true

basilisk


On Mar 17, 1:52 pm, Nucular Reaction wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

wrote:
Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

basilisk wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

Maybe our government will start taxing the generation of sawdust of
various species because until we woodworkers liberate it from it's
storage in a board where it is safely compressed and kept from
becoming an irritant to some people it is of no harm. But once we have
expanded it into sawdust, we should pay a tax to offset the cost to
society for our injurious behavior.

And so it already is, at least in Alabama, the bigger wood working
industries in the state have emissions from dust collectors, cyclones and
baghouses tested for volume of wood particulates and are charged by
weight for actual emissions.

See dreams can come true

Build long-life, non-polluting passive solar heating panels to generate
carbon credits to offset your sawdust taxes. Build engines that run on
sunshine and you should be able to swim in carbon credits.

Where do I get mine? Is there a long line? )

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?

Maybe our government will start taxing the generation of sawdust of
various species because until we woodworkers liberate it from it's
storage in a board where it is safely compressed and kept from
becoming an irritant to some people it is of no harm. But once we have
expanded it into sawdust, we should pay a tax to offset the cost to
society for our injurious behavior.

On Mar 17, 1:52*pm, Nucular Reaction wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

wrote:
Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?


Maybe our government will start taxing the generation of sawdust of
various species because until we woodworkers liberate it from it's
storage in a board where it is safely compressed and kept from
becoming an irritant to some people it is of no harm. But once we have
expanded it into sawdust, we should pay a tax to offset the cost to
society for our injurious behavior.

On Mar 17, 1:52Â*pm, Nucular Reaction wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:01:36 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

wrote:
Maybe you can buy some carbon credits from some third world country
that has a good allocation from the new world government but has no
infrastructure yet to generate much carbon on their own. Zimbabwai or
Nambia come to mind, they could use the cash.

Oh wait, Obama hasn't had his cap-and-trade and world government
budget passed yet. Maybe next year.

And your plan is what? I suppose you would have voted for Bush again.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

wrote:


You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?
Yes. "Global Warming" is the biggest political propaganda scam to
hit this planet in centuries.

"An Inconvenient Truth" is the single most wildly successful
Propaganda film ever made - I'd call it Science Fiction, except that
there is not one tiny scrap of actual "Science" in the thing. Nor any
"Truth" for that matter.

-Kevin in Indy
To reply, remove (+spamproof+) from address........

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

Umm, yes. Lots of bombast, little, if any, real science.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:09:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

The earth is not warming, and hasn't been for years. The data is
suspect. The "scientists" promoting AGW have been caught in data
forgery and lies.

The geological record shows that CO2 increase as a RESULT of warming.

And the lack of the start of the expected sunspot cycle strongly
suggests we may entering another "little ice age" where the earth cools
for 50 - 75 years, as it did about 400 years ago. See "Maunder
Minimum",

And don't get me started ont he Vladivostok Staion Antarctic ice core
data, or the bogus data from weather monitoring stations sitting under
air conditioning exhaust fans or between runways in Reno, or...

My conclusion: global warming is a non-existant, fabricated problem
designed to hurt what we call "western democracies" in favor of China,
India and other "developing nations".

Let me see if I got this right. There is a giant cabal of (mostly
Western) scientists that have cooked up this global warming conspiracy
to help China and India?

Whoa, skippy. You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Flat Earth
Society, would you?

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

Umm, yes. Lots of bombast, little, if any, real science.

If you live within 20-30 feet of sea level and plan to live more than
40-50 years, I suggest you sell and move to higher ground.

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:24:48 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:09:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

The earth is not warming, and hasn't been for years. The data is
suspect. The "scientists" promoting AGW have been caught in data
forgery and lies.

The geological record shows that CO2 increase as a RESULT of warming.

And the lack of the start of the expected sunspot cycle strongly
suggests we may entering another "little ice age" where the earth cools
for 50 - 75 years, as it did about 400 years ago. See "Maunder
Minimum",

And don't get me started ont he Vladivostok Staion Antarctic ice core
data, or the bogus data from weather monitoring stations sitting under
air conditioning exhaust fans or between runways in Reno, or...

My conclusion: global warming is a non-existant, fabricated problem
designed to hurt what we call "western democracies" in favor of China,
India and other "developing nations".

Let me see if I got this right. There is a giant cabal of (mostly
Western) scientists that have cooked up this global warming conspiracy
to help China and India?

Whoa, skippy. You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Flat Earth
Society, would you?


Global warming comes from 2 sources. Burning horsechestnut wood, and
arguing off-topic. Change the subject if you want to keep on
blabbering off topic.

Well from what I can make of all the confusing hype written about sea
level increase on Wikipedia, written by global warming alarmist is
from 18 to 80 inches in the next 100 years, although all of that is
prefaced on a rapid expansion beyond todays consistent rate of about 1
to 2 mm per year.

I assume that this global warming will wipe us out since the
population explosion, ice age and famine all predicted by the same
wack jobs seemed to have never materialized.


On Mar 20, 10:28*am, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita





wrote:
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:49:53 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

Well from what I can make of all the confusing hype written about sea
level increase on Wikipedia, written by global warming alarmist is
from 18 to 80 inches in the next 100 years, although all of that is
prefaced on a rapid expansion beyond todays consistent rate of about 1
to 2 mm per year.

I assume that this global warming will wipe us out since the
population explosion, ice age and famine all predicted by the same
wack jobs seemed to have never materialized.

Stay tuned.

wrote:

Global warming comes from 2 sources. Burning horsechestnut wood, and
arguing off-topic. Change the subject if you want to keep on
blabbering off topic.

And here I thought global warming was the result of all the hot air
generated by Al Gore.

writes:
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:09:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

The earth is not warming, and hasn't been for years. The data is
suspect. The "scientists" promoting AGW have been caught in data
forgery and lies.

The geological record shows that CO2 increase as a RESULT of warming.

And the lack of the start of the expected sunspot cycle strongly
suggests we may entering another "little ice age" where the earth cools
for 50 - 75 years, as it did about 400 years ago. See "Maunder
Minimum",

And don't get me started ont he Vladivostok Staion Antarctic ice core
data, or the bogus data from weather monitoring stations sitting under
air conditioning exhaust fans or between runways in Reno, or...

My conclusion: global warming is a non-existant, fabricated problem
designed to hurt what we call "western democracies" in favor of China,
India and other "developing nations".

Let me see if I got this right. There is a giant cabal of (mostly
Western) scientists that have cooked up this global warming conspiracy
to help China and India?

It is certainly not a _giant cabal_. In reality, the IPCC report was
written by a small handful of scientists; and any disagreement with
each of the chapter editors was met with silence or derision.

When a soi disant scientist recommends prison for anyone who disagrees
with him, he stops being a scientist (James Hanson).

While there is no doubt that the climate has changed since the beginning
of the last interglacial, and sea level has risen over one hundred meters
in the last 10,000 years, one should not expect either to become static
in the 20th (or 21st) centuries.

The statistical manipulations used to attempt to tease out a global average
temperature 200 years ago (much less 1000 years ago) have been pretty
roundly criticized by real statisticians (see Wegner, et. al., M&M 2007
and the NAS panel report).

The idea the a precipitation proxy (tree ring widths in thousand year
old strip-bark trees in the Sierra Nevada) is also a viable temperature
proxy (with tenth of a degree C accuracy) is ludicrous; yet much of
Dr. Mann's dendrochronological research (and spurious results such as
the so-called hockey stick) based on such proxies has been shown to be
flawed statistically and methodologically.

Science, in any discipline, is never "settled".

scott

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

Umm, yes. Lots of bombast, little, if any, real science.

If you live within 20-30 feet of sea level and plan to live more than
40-50 years, I suggest you sell and move to higher ground.

I sure am not going to plan my life around the pseudo-science of the
global warming alarmists. Their science is so bad, that the label is
now "climate change" since their predictions of warming have kind of been
blown away by the nasty fact that global average temperatures have not
increased since 1998. So, now, if the temperature goes up -- the cause is
global man-made climate change, if the temperature goes down -- the cause
is global man-made climate change. More storms than usual? Global
man-made climate change. Less storms than usual? Global man-made climate
change.

So, given the fact that anything that happens is now "proof" of global
man-made climate change, what would be required to disprove the hypothesis?



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Mark &
Juanita wrote:

So, given the fact that anything that happens is now "proof" of global
man-made climate change, what would be required to disprove the hypothesis?

Considering the latest pronouncements are along the lines of "Yeah,
well it may be on hold NOW, but just wait 30 or 50 years years and it's
all going to happen AT ONCE" I think the hypothesis has been pretty
much disproven.

Of course, that won't stop world governments from using the issue as
another excuse to steal money.

I might suggest that you Google (didn't somebody say that Google is your
friend?) on "climate changes". For some basic information look at the
EPA web pages and perhaps Wikipedia. This will get you past Rush at
least. Utilize some of the references given in these sites to pursue
specific areas of your interest. A LOT of scholarship is available to
bring you up to speed on the various forces involved in climatic changes.

mahalo,
jo4hn

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , jo4hn
wrote:

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Mark &
Juanita wrote:

So, given the fact that anything that happens is now "proof" of global
man-made climate change, what would be required to disprove the hypothesis?
Considering the latest pronouncements are along the lines of "Yeah,
well it may be on hold NOW, but just wait 30 or 50 years years and it's
all going to happen AT ONCE" I think the hypothesis has been pretty
much disproven.

Of course, that won't stop world governments from using the issue as
another excuse to steal money.
I might suggest that you Google (didn't somebody say that Google is your
friend?) on "climate changes". For some basic information look at the
EPA web pages and perhaps Wikipedia. This will get you past Rush at
least. Utilize some of the references given in these sites to pursue
specific areas of your interest. A LOT of scholarship is available to
bring you up to speed on the various forces involved in climatic changes.

You're believing that Wikipedia is a valid source for scientific
reference on anything beyond basic geometry? Seriously?

I actually drafted a longer reply with citations and web links to real
research, but this is way off topic, and you wouldn't listen anyway.

Oh, BTW... who's this "Rush" you refer to? I don't live in the US, so I
may have an imperfect understanding of how ****ed up your country is at
this particular point in time, though from what I'm reading about your
president (PBUH) and your congress, things seem pretty bad there, what
with all the people in power getting cash from AIG while screaming
about $165 out of $180,000. I'd add the zeros, but it seems like the
American public doesn't understand the decimal system, and scaling.

And, of course, the fact that Obamessiah and Dodd both got over
$100,000 from AIG means nothing...

How's THAT for hijacking a thread?
I have found that there are some posters here who will repeat
ideologically based statements as fact (Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer
who expects that his suppositions be believed as fact). I will
occasionally try to point out a couple of places where very basic
information can be obtained and where links to other sources are
offered. More than that is a waste of time as far as I am concerned.
However if you want to supply that information, you certainly have my
blessing. Be careful to avoid "junk science" as that will only prolong
the agony of ignorance.

There are some of us here who do understand .1% and that much of that
money is going to people who are trying to fix the problem. As to
campaign contributions and other bribes, that is the way of life in this
country. There are many other ways of doing elections, one of which I
put forth in this forum a few months ago.

Bliss need not involve ignorance.

mahalo,
jo4hn

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:09:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

The earth is not warming, and hasn't been for years. The data is
suspect. The "scientists" promoting AGW have been caught in data
forgery and lies.

The geological record shows that CO2 increase as a RESULT of warming.

And the lack of the start of the expected sunspot cycle strongly
suggests we may entering another "little ice age" where the earth cools
for 50 - 75 years, as it did about 400 years ago. See "Maunder
Minimum",

And don't get me started ont he Vladivostok Staion Antarctic ice core
data, or the bogus data from weather monitoring stations sitting under
air conditioning exhaust fans or between runways in Reno, or...

My conclusion: global warming is a non-existant, fabricated problem
designed to hurt what we call "western democracies" in favor of China,
India and other "developing nations".

Stunning ignorance -- truly stunning.

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

Umm, yes. Lots of bombast, little, if any, real science.

....and your degree is in what? Did you even finish high school?

Lurfys Maw wrote:

On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:57:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

I am not a Bush defender, I am a tax hater and a liberty lover.

I think it really sucks that governments just pick a thing and tax it.
This cap-and-trade crap will tax our industries into the ground while
China and others not only keep freely trashing our planet but also
sell credits from the regions of wasteland where they haven't
developed any industry yet.

And *your* plan is.....?


Why does he need a plan to solve a non-existant, fabricated "problem"?

You think global warming is a "non-existant, fabricated problem"?

Umm, yes. Lots of bombast, little, if any, real science.

...and your degree is in what? Did you even finish high school?

As I said, lots of bombast, little science. I guess I should also have
added "with a bunch of ad hominem thrown in".

Just to assuage your petty little taunt: Master of Science in Electrical
Engineering. I've spent a number of years doing modeling and simulation as
well as work analyzing and evaluating both models and system performance
for various systems. I KNOW the difficulty, even when I have direct
control of a large number of a CONTROLLED test's parameters to obtain
results from very sophisticated models that accurately predict a system's
performance in statistically meaningful terms. That is one reason I laugh
in derision at all of these so-called experts using their models to predict
catastrophic climate change resulting from predicted temperature changes at
single or decimal increments of degrees based upon data that includes such
silliness as using tree-ring data to assess temperature data thousands of
years ago and attempting to predict the behavior of a chaotic system with
so many variables and closed-loop control cycles such that model fidelity
to that level of precision is ridiculous.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough