Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a jobsite
here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer, five for the
"hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

This morning, watched while one of them ripped a 4x12x20' cedar beam to
width, to match two butting LVL's ... took less time to "rip" than to
"report". No guide, no line, just a pencil mark to start, and a 'finger on
edge' to guide the cut. Result: perfect match to the LVL's, and the 9/16"
off cut does not vary by 1/32 for the entire 20' length.

Try that with 20' 4x12 stock on your table saw!

Can't express how good it is to see that type of "skill" is still being
wielded once again in these parts ... notable/rare enough for picture proof:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/A.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/B.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/C.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/D.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/E.jpg

Even rarer these days : sit in a the construction trailer and listen to
measurement 'call outs' in English, and SRV on the jobsite radio.

Now, if only Paul Harvey would be around to signal lunch time ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a
jobsite here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer,
five for the "hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

This morning, watched while one of them ripped a 4x12x20' cedar beam to
width, to match two butting LVL's ... took less time to "rip" than to
"report". No guide, no line, just a pencil mark to start, and a 'finger on
edge' to guide the cut. Result: perfect match to the LVL's, and the 9/16"
off cut does not vary by 1/32 for the entire 20' length.

Try that with 20' 4x12 stock on your table saw!

Can't express how good it is to see that type of "skill" is still being
wielded once again in these parts ... notable/rare enough for picture
proof:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/A.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/B.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/C.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/D.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/E.jpg

Even rarer these days : sit in a the construction trailer and listen to
measurement 'call outs' in English, and SRV on the jobsite radio.

Obviously the Sketchup plans that they were referencing was a big help in
making those accurate cuts. ;~)

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:46:04 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a jobsite
here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer, five for the
"hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

....I've recently dragged my 77 out for a couple of jobs and it's been
a *time* machine. I love that saw...it really is a part of my arm
when I'm using it...Swingman, you probably wouldn't like the way mine
looks, tho; there is *no* guard. I own three of them and all the
guards are in a little nook in the shop. I know, I know...but that's
how we learned out here on the "tracts" and anytime I use a circular
saw *with* a guard I feel I'm gonna hurt myself! I suppose if I were
on a "real" job (meaning one involving other workers and apt to get
OSHA inspections) I'd have to conform, though. Funny aside, I was at
a yard the other day at the counter. So I see this gizmo out of the
corner of my eye...you know, an impulse-buy display, and it was a
Skilsaw guard holder-upper. Well, I joked with the sales guy who's
about my age that I wouldn't be needing *that* anytime soon. He came
back with, "...yeah, there was a guy in here this morning who said
'...now, what do they think I'm going to do with my pencil?'"

This morning, watched while one of them ripped a 4x12x20' cedar beam to
width, to match two butting LVL's ... took less time to "rip" than to
"report". No guide, no line, just a pencil mark to start, and a 'finger on
edge' to guide the cut. Result: perfect match to the LVL's, and the 9/16"
off cut does not vary by 1/32 for the entire 20' length.

....the man's been at it for awhile! The real advantage of that saw to
one who knows how to handle it is *speed*...gobs of power...I LOVE the
sound of Skilsaws in the morning!


Try that with 20' 4x12 stock on your table saw!

Can't express how good it is to see that type of "skill" is still being
wielded once again in these parts ... notable/rare enough for picture proof:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/A.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/B.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/C.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/D.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/E.jpg

Even rarer these days : sit in a the construction trailer and listen to
measurement 'call outs' in English, and SRV on the jobsite radio.

Now, if only Paul Harvey would be around to signal lunch time ...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a
jobsite here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer,
five for the "hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

F8ck!!!! They had to travel half the country to find work?!!

"MikeWhy" wrote
"Swingman"
Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a
jobsite here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer,
five for the "hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

F8ck!!!! They had to travel half the country to find work?!!


Yeah, Bubba ... and I'm damn glad of it.

Don't want to sound non-PC, but good gawd almighty the difference!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Charlie Groh" wrote

...I've recently dragged my 77 out for a couple of jobs and it's been
a *time* machine. I love that saw...it really is a part of my arm
when I'm using it...Swingman, you probably wouldn't like the way mine
looks, tho; there is *no* guard. I own three of them and all the
guards are in a little nook in the shop. I know, I know...but that's
how we learned out here on the "tracts" and anytime I use a circular
saw *with* a guard I feel I'm gonna hurt myself! I suppose if I were
on a "real" job (meaning one involving other workers and apt to get
OSHA inspections) I'd have to conform, though. Funny aside, I was at
a yard the other day at the counter. So I see this gizmo out of the
corner of my eye...you know, an impulse-buy display, and it was a
Skilsaw guard holder-upper. Well, I joked with the sales guy who's
about my age that I wouldn't be needing *that* anytime soon. He came
back with, "...yeah, there was a guy in here this morning who said
'...now, what do they think I'm going to do with my pencil?'"

Yep, nary a guard in sight.

Funny thing, one of 77's was used to "chop" down an 8" diameter tree that
was leaning over the framed area and in the way of installing TJI's. A
relief cut on one side, the coup de grace cut on the opposite, tree down,
five minutes, back to work.

I gotta admit that's the first time I've ever seen a "circular saw" used to
remove a tree.

Keep in mind that around here it would take an application, complete with
name, rank, serial number, genus and phylum of every tree on that, and
adjacent, properties; an inspection prior to that; erection a "tree
protection fence" around adjacent trees; another inspection of said fence
installation; a week for the actual "tree removal permit"; a licensed
professional "arborist" to do the deed for $250 minimum; a request to remove
the "tree protection fence", apres mort; another inspection following that
providing $100/diameter inch was paid to the city "tree fund"; AND, required
replacement with an equal number of circumference inches of a tree on the
"approved list", and within 2000 feet of the construction site, and that
must live for at least five years.

No, I'm not kidding ... we actually had one builder here in WestU accused of
"tree murder"!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 2009-03-06, Swingman wrote:
Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters.........

There's still such a thing as union carpenters? I've heard of such things
in myth.

nb

On Mar 6, 3:07*pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Yeah, Bubba ... and I'm damn glad of it.

Don't want to sound non-PC, but good gawd almighty the difference!

I'll bet. What I wouldn't give to pull a cork with those guys.

Just last week I had to run off a carpentry crew that was rebuilding a
roof section that was collapsing on my job. These were "experts" and
"professionals" that had been "doing it all their lives".

The final straw was that we were to shim a roof joists (nearly flat
roof) to take out the dip in one corner of the roof. So we needed
straight wedges 60" long, 7/8" to nothing. Then one 3/4" to nothing,
etc., while getting shorter all the while. Then we needed to feather
out the shims as needed around the low spot across the rest of the
joists, kind of like a sunburst.

Those guys screwed around trying to cut those wedges for more than an
hour. What a waste of time. The head banana said to me "well, if it
is so ****ing easy, why don't you do it?"

OK.. they go something right, I'll admit it.

At 10:00 am I fired the carpenters and kept the helpers, went home,
got my nail bags, saw, cords, etc. and crawled my pudgy middle aged
ass up and down that ladder all day and did all of it myself with two
guys that couldn't read a tape, measure a board or cut. They hauled a
lot of material, but they couldn't speak but a little English, and
their Spanish wasn't all that great either.

At the end of the day, the cut out section of framing was replaced
(17' x 24' ), decked, 4 new skylights set, joist hangers nailed out
and bridging all set. All in a section that was 2 1/2" out of square
with a 2" sag in two different places.

20 years ago I wouldn't have hired someone that couldn't do that in a
day. But the job budget had TWO days allowance in it, allowing for
today's unqualified labor force. (I was glad there was a two day
allowance; I used the money I saved on ibuprofin!)

If I worked with some guys like you are describing I might tell
everyone I was joining the circus and leave with them.

How did you find them?

Robert

wrote

If I worked with some guys like you are describing I might tell
everyone I was joining the circus and leave with them.

How did you find them?

Foundation contractor on this particular job, an old time Aggie
acquaintance, is married to one of the guy's sister. The guy, who owned his
own framing company in Washington for the last 25 years, was bit by hard
times in the area and just moved to Bryan, and, as luck would have it, was
looking for work. I had him bid the job, along with four others, and he came
in in the middle (I liked that his was a fair bid, a tad on the high side
for the times, but it showed an obvious knowledge of the work required, and,
just importantly his worth in it ... no low balling just to get the work)
Although I'd never met the guy before meeting with him on the RFQ, the
entire family is known for their work ethic, the connections were there, and
I had a good feeling about him. Soon as the contract was awarded, he flew in
his old right hand man from Washington for the job, and hired some local
hands to fill out the crew.

How lucky can you get ...

Bubba, I can tell you one thing for sure ... I wish like hell I had six more
to build right this minute, with these two guys as bell cows, we'd be hell
to stop!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

wrote

today's unqualified labor force. (I was glad there was a two day
allowance; I used the money I saved on ibuprofin!)

Know the feeling ... having all these relatively young studs around the last
couple weeks and, in my *mind's* eye, I'm still the same, so I humped a
couple trusses this week, or tried to. Paying the price as we speak ... thus
the margarita, in hand.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mar 6, 9:23*pm, "Swingman" wrote:

How lucky can you get ... *

Ask any contractor... he'll tell you...

YOU SUCK!

Sorry.... ;^)

A find like those guys only comes along once or twice. You know that.

Bubba, I can tell you one thing for sure ... I wish like hell I had six more
to build right this minute, with these two guys as bell cows, we'd be hell
to stop!

You know, the moon and stars haven't lined up that well for me over
the last few years. I have the work, but no qualified subs. I have
the subs, but not enough work to hold onto them for long.

And it has been years since I have seen a craftsman that is of the
level of mastery that make me actually admire what he does. Not
necessarily the work, but the way he goes about it; no lost motion, no
unsure decisions, no extraneous activity, no loud talking, etc.

Just set up, and go to work. Stop for lunch. Honestly take only 30
minutes. Give an additional material list if needed, a progress
report if asked, and a heads up on a possible problem. Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert

Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert


Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he
might leave early?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

wrote

And it has been years since I have seen a craftsman that is of the
level of mastery that make me actually admire what he does. Not
necessarily the work, but the way he goes about it; no lost motion, no
unsure decisions, no extraneous activity, no loud talking, etc.

A good predictor of that .. and, while you would appreciate the single
biggest factor why this guy got the bid, many won't ... he simply asked the
right questions.

Amazing the depth of knowledge that one act can reveal.

(I had two bids that were lower than this crew, and one higher, and the
lowest $5K lower ... as you know, that's pretty damn hard to explain to a
client).

Where did all those guys go?

Lost to the prevailing attitude that nobody but an idiot would put money
into a building where it can't be seen by a buyer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

-MIKE- wrote:

Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert


Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he
might leave early?

That shows he left home early in case there was a traffic delay on the way,
it demonstrates a commitment to the job that is often lacking in those who
allow just barely enough time to get there a minute before starting time.
It ain't the single most important quality in a worker, but things like that
tend to be part of a pattern.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...
Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert


Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he might
leave early?

Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g

No offense, Mike, but the change in times and attitude is nicely reflected
in your question. It wasn't Robert that "expected" anything, it was the dude
himself, who was hired to do the job, that expected it of himself as part of
the job!

I agree, it's not a prevailing attitude today, thus the discussion.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"DGDevin" wrote

That shows he left home early in case there was a traffic delay on the
way, it demonstrates a commitment to the job that is often lacking in
those who allow just barely enough time to get there a minute before
starting time. It ain't the single most important quality in a worker, but
things like that tend to be part of a pattern.

Very will put!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mar 7, 2:52*pm, -MIKE- wrote:

Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he
might leave early?

About the only thing I would be ****ed about is an idiot that puts
words in my mouth.

Did I indicate anywhere that I EXPECTED him to be there early. You,
the one that has admonished others for not being as literal as
possible, not adhering to the written word exactly as it has been
recorded.
You have done this before when responding to my posts, reacting by
putting you own thoughts down as my words.

Read my post again. If you are unclear of its commentary, post your
questions here.

Don't put words in my mouth or pretend to read my thoughts, asshole.

Robert

On Mar 7, 3:11*pm, "Swingman" wrote:

It wasn't Robert that "expected" anything, it was the dude
himself, who was hired to do the job, that expected it of himself as part of
the job!

Exactly. Precisely. For this man, it was something that others here
obviously just don't get. It is a standard that he held himself to,
his own standard that goes beyond the norm. As seen here, it totally
escapes some - beyond their comprehension, and even their imagination.

The particular man I had in my mind's eye when I typed that just
thought that was the way the world worked. It was the way I was
expected to act when I started in the trades. It was that way before
me, and no doubt before that.

Years ago, there were NO acceptable excuses for being late. If you
were there every day on time (which my first boss considered 20
mintues before actually starting so he could get a head count while
you were getting your tools out), you were given a pass on that rare
day there was a traffic pile up, a sick kid, etc.

I agree, it's not a prevailing attitude today, thus the discussion.

And how well any employer would understand that.

Robert

wrote

The particular man I had in my mind's eye when I typed that just
thought that was the way the world worked. It was the way I was
expected to act when I started in the trades. It was that way before
me, and no doubt before that.

Hell, and my recent IME, many of today's young worker's want to be patted on
the back and rewarded with a raise for just showing up.

Damn if we don't sound like a couple of old farts ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"DGDevin" wrote in message
m...
-MIKE- wrote:

Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert


Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he
might leave early?

That shows he left home early in case there was a traffic delay on the
way, it demonstrates a commitment to the job that is often lacking in
those who allow just barely enough time to get there a minute before
starting time. It ain't the single most important quality in a worker, but
things like that tend to be part of a pattern.

amen, brother!

My boss hired someone who was late to her interview despite the old adage
not to.

She was late to work everyday after that.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
wrote

The particular man I had in my mind's eye when I typed that just
thought that was the way the world worked. It was the way I was
expected to act when I started in the trades. It was that way before
me, and no doubt before that.

Hell, and my recent IME, many of today's young worker's want to be patted
on the back and rewarded with a raise for just showing up.

Damn if we don't sound like a couple of old farts ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)



Yeah, and they consider showing up in flip flops to a business office to be
a fashion statement.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8628616/

jc

Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert

Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he might
leave early?

Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g

No offense, Mike, but the change in times and attitude is nicely reflected
in your question. It wasn't Robert that "expected" anything, it was the dude
himself, who was hired to do the job, that expected it of himself as part of
the job!

I agree, it's not a prevailing attitude today, thus the discussion.


I knew the answer. I wanted to hear it from him. There *are* bosses who
expect people to be early and work late, then bitch about paying for it.

Don't get me started on smoking breaks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

wrote:
On Mar 7, 2:52 pm, -MIKE- wrote:

Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that he
might leave early?

About the only thing I would be ****ed about is an idiot that puts
words in my mouth.

Did I indicate anywhere that I EXPECTED him to be there early. You,
the one that has admonished others for not being as literal as
possible, not adhering to the written word exactly as it has been
recorded.
You have done this before when responding to my posts, reacting by
putting you own thoughts down as my words.

Read my post again. If you are unclear of its commentary, post your
questions here.

Don't put words in my mouth or pretend to read my thoughts, asshole.

Robert


Wow. I'll be sure to note for future reference that you have a short
fuse to go along with being passive aggressive.

Did I talk too loud? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Swingman wrote:
Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g


And please! We're the first one in and the last one out because of all
this crap we have to haul. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:46:04 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a jobsite
here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer, five for the
"hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).

This morning, watched while one of them ripped a 4x12x20' cedar beam to
width, to match two butting LVL's ... took less time to "rip" than to
"report". No guide, no line, just a pencil mark to start, and a 'finger on
edge' to guide the cut. Result: perfect match to the LVL's, and the 9/16"
off cut does not vary by 1/32 for the entire 20' length.

Try that with 20' 4x12 stock on your table saw!

Can't express how good it is to see that type of "skill" is still being
wielded once again in these parts ... notable/rare enough for picture proof:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/A.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/B.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/C.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/D.jpg
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/E.jpg

Even rarer these days : sit in a the construction trailer and listen to
measurement 'call outs' in English, and SRV on the jobsite radio.

Now, if only Paul Harvey would be around to signal lunch time ...



Unfortunately they are mostly gone! Dead, retired, working for peanuts
because nobody will pay for the quality workmanship anymore! Around
here it's all about the low bidder. How cheap and can I get it
yesterday! Hell, The good ones show up sober and ready to work. The
great ones know how to work! It doesn't take any extra time to do most
things the right way. takes a helluva lot longer to fix all the
f**kups. I've thought about headin your way for work but sadly I aint
up to the task anymore. The old bones just dont work that way anymore.
Nobody wants to hire us old farts anymore. We are dinosaurs [they say]
and the wetbacks will do it so cheap that we can't compete anymore.
It's a sad state of affairs for sure! Enjoy those men while ya can
swingman. They are a dying breed and soon enough they will all be
gone. then we be in realy deep ****!

skeez

-MIKE- wrote:
Stop work at
the end of the day (not rolling up 30 minutes before quitting time)
roll up, go home. At the job the next day with coffee in hand 20
minutes before starting time.

Where did all those guys go?

Robert

Why do you expect him there 20 minutes early, but are ****ed that
he might leave early?

Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g

No offense, Mike, but the change in times and attitude is nicely
reflected in your question. It wasn't Robert that "expected"
anything, it was the dude himself, who was hired to do the job, that
expected it of himself as part of the job!

I agree, it's not a prevailing attitude today, thus the discussion.


I knew the answer. I wanted to hear it from him. There *are* bosses
who expect people to be early and work late, then bitch about paying
for it.
Don't get me started on smoking breaks.

Coming from the other end, I have trouble with the kind of boss who's
standing there with his stopwatch making snotty remarks when you come in
thirty seconds late, but he was long gone when you went home at 2 AM the
night before.

On Mar 7, 5:23*pm, "Swingman" wrote:

Hell, and my recent IME, many of today's young worker's want to be patted on
the back and rewarded with a raise for just showing up.

Absolutely. And I have had more than one that wanted a raise
because they had not only attended several day in a row, but wanted a
reward for not being late.

Except of course, the times it wasn't their fault.

My first boss in construction had been trained by the union. If you
were late by one minute, you had to wait 1/2 hour in your truck before
you could start. If you were more than 10 minutes late, you had to
wait an hour before you could start. You had to wait in your vehicle
so you couldn't fudge and say you were working.

If you protested too much, he sent you home. If you did it more than
a couple of times you were fired. There were no exceptions. With
that kind of rigidity, none of us ever gave a thought to being a 20
minutes early so we could catch up on things a bit before we cranked
up the machines. Everyone was on time.

His personal philosophy was that he paid us to WORK for 8 hours. Work
did not mean "getting your tools out" or "putting your tools up". He
always held himself to that same standard. As another bonus, he was
unconcerned with your watch. His was the only one that counted.

If things poorly on the job, just to screw with us, he used to set his
watch back about ten minutes so we would get upset and he could yell
at us for something else. It seemed to kind of keep things in
balance.

I actually liked and respected that man more than anyone I ever worked
for or around. He was a rigid taskmaster, but boy were we all proud
of he work we turned out when working with him. We felt like real
first class MOFOs when we worked on his crew.

Sadly, when he retired from work he was so confused about today's work
force he was completely miserable. It made him old before his time.

Damn if we don't sound like a couple of old farts ...

*chuckles*

Yeah, we do. I'll admit there is a little fartage coming on....

I wish some of those children that work for me from time to time would
quit calling me "an old dude", though.

Whippersnappers!

Robert

-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g


And please! We're the first one in and the last one out because of all
this crap we have to haul. :-)

Yeah, and if we get stuck in traffic and *don't* get there before
everybody else, setup is a nightmare because you have to trip over
everybody else's junk and grouse at them to move it so there's enough
room to set up the drums!

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
Wow. I'll be sure to note for future reference that you have a short
fuse to go along with being passive aggressive.

Did I talk too loud? :-)

No, he got aggravated that you didn't take the time to understand what you
read and then compounded it by replying to something he didn't say.

Maybe you like responding to people who don't listen to what you're saying,
but most people don't.

Steve Turner wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
Swingman wrote:
Just like a drummer, used to showing up on the downbeat! g


And please! We're the first one in and the last one out because of all
this crap we have to haul. :-)

Yeah, and if we get stuck in traffic and *don't* get there before
everybody else, setup is a nightmare because you have to trip over
everybody else's junk and grouse at them to move it so there's enough
room to set up the drums!


Or like the lead singer who gets there first and sets up his $3000
acoustic on a $10 guitar stand, right in the middle of the stage while
everyone with road cases has to tip-toe around the thing, which he
plays out of tune on 3 songs.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Upscale wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message
Wow. I'll be sure to note for future reference that you have a short
fuse to go along with being passive aggressive.

Did I talk too loud? :-)

No, he got aggravated that you didn't take the time to understand what you
read and then compounded it by replying to something he didn't say.

Maybe you like responding to people who don't listen to what you're saying,
but most people don't.


I've been doing this usenet thing for more than a decade and this group,
without a doubt, contains some of the most thinned skinned, crotchety,
sense-of-humor-less, hair-triggered folks of any group I've frequented.

If R.W. were a bar, there would be a big section of guys kidding around
with each other, taking jesting jabs at one another, laughing it up, and
there'd be one booth in the corner with 4 guys whining and moaning about
youngsters who don't respect their elders, pining away about the old days.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote

I've been doing this usenet thing for more than a decade and this group,
without a doubt, contains some of the most thinned skinned, crotchety,
sense-of-humor-less, hair-triggered folks of any group I've frequented.

If R.W. were a bar, there would be a big section of guys kidding around
with each other, taking jesting jabs at one another, laughing it up, and
there'd be one booth in the corner with 4 guys whining and moaning about
youngsters who don't respect their elders, pining away about the old days.

Beg to differ ... ran a FidoNet node back in the 70's, and co-wrote the very
first Windows mail software for Fido ... IME, nothing has changed in that
regard whatsoever.

Just ask Jack about the OS wars back then ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 2009-03-08, -MIKE- wrote:

Or like the lead singer who gets there first and sets up his $3000
acoustic on a $10 guitar stand, right in the middle of the stage while
everyone with road cases has to tip-toe around the thing, which he
plays out of tune on 3 songs.

ROFL!.....

nb

On 2009-03-08, -MIKE- wrote:

I've been doing this usenet thing for more than a decade and this group,
without a doubt, contains some of the most thinned skinned, crotchety,
sense-of-humor-less....

I don't know. I thought your other post was hilarious.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2009-03-08, -MIKE- wrote:

I've been doing this usenet thing for more than a decade and this group,
without a doubt, contains some of the most thinned skinned, crotchety,
sense-of-humor-less....

I don't know. I thought your other post was hilarious.

nb

That's why I wrote,"some of." :-)
I've been in other groups and a majority of guys see the usenet for the
pub-like atmosphere that it is.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2009-03-08, -MIKE- wrote:

That's why I wrote,"some of." :-)
I've been in other groups and a majority of guys see the usenet for the
pub-like atmosphere that it is.

Agreed. I've jes been reading for a couple days and already like it. Lotta
geezers with old work ethic, like myself. I find older crowd to still have
tolerance and humor. Granted, lotta curmudgeons, but good humored
curmudgeons.

nb -- g/h curm

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:46:04 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

Framing crew on a current construction project is being run by two union
carpenters from Washington state. Both of these guys are "old school", to
say the least (it's been years since I've seen exclusively 77's on a jobsite
here in Texas, and these guys pulled seven out of the trailer, five for the
"hired help", and a "personal" 77 a piece).


Still keep my 77 greased and ready to kick ass. It's the 1911 of
jobsite saws. I regret selling my Rockwell 315, which handled a lot
of the lighter chores.

The 77 is heavy but, if you use it right, it and gravity are your
friends.

Once we got the ribbons up we flopped up the joists and eyeballed the
cuts, holding the 77 vertical and the joist resting on our boots.
Would have made an OSHA dude crazy but it was a fast way to frame up
flat work.




Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"DGDevin" wrote

That shows he left home early in case there was a traffic delay on
the way, it demonstrates a commitment to the job that is often
lacking in those who allow just barely enough time to get there a
minute before starting time. It ain't the single most important
quality in a worker, but things like that tend to be part of a
pattern.

Very will put!

--

I've always showed up for work 20 minutes early, I started with the
Bell System
and was a union member from the first moment I was allowed to join
until I retired
32 years later, then went to work the next 5 years working in a shop
fabricating
laminate for custom closets, Still got to work 20 minutes early and
waited outside
the shop till they opened it. It just never felt right to me to be
showing up as they were
opening the doors. I get to the doctors office early too. I hate being
late, just ruins my day
I see the younger guys drive up and park just as they were opening the
doors to the shop
and wonder how they could live with that. Guess new values, or is it
lack of pride in self and
work ethics
CC
CC

CC wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"DGDevin" wrote

That shows he left home early in case there was a traffic delay on
the way, it demonstrates a commitment to the job that is often
lacking in those who allow just barely enough time to get there a
minute before starting time. It ain't the single most important
quality in a worker, but things like that tend to be part of a
pattern.

Very will put!

--

I've always showed up for work 20 minutes early, I started with the
Bell System

That's a great trait

and was a union member from the first moment I was allowed to join
until I retired

I'm impressed, from what I've seen, union membership often sucks the
initiative right out of motivated workers.

.... snip I get to the doctors office early too. I hate being
late, just ruins my day

I'll do that the first time or so. If the doctor or other professional
keeps *me* waiting more than 10 or 15 minutes, I take that into account for
future visits and am not quite so fussy about getting there on time. I'll
allow for a bad day the first time this happens, but after the second time
in a row, I take this as an attitude on the part of the office that
clients' time is cheap while their time is valuable, so making the client
wait is the way to keep the office humming properly. I am also a
professional and my time is valuable as well -- if they don't value *my*
time as much as they expect me to value theirs, I get a bit snippy about
that and am likely to start factoring in the standard office delay when
timing my future visits.


I see the younger guys drive up and park just as they were opening the
doors to the shop
and wonder how they could live with that. Guess new values, or is it
lack of pride in self and
work ethics

Working as a non-hourly employee, I can't directly relate to that. I've
always put in more than a regular day, so start and stop times are a bit
fuzzy. When one's regular shift is 9 hours and one normally works 10+
hours, I'm not sure how to count "showing up on time" except in the sense
of making sure one makes scheduled meetings on time.


CC
CC

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

I've always showed up for work 20 minutes early, I started with the
Bell System and was a union member from the first moment I was
allowed to join until I retired 32 years later, then went to work the
next 5 years working in a shop fabricating laminate for custom
closets, Still got to work 20 minutes early and waited outside the
shop till they opened it. It just never felt right to me to be
showing up as they were opening the doors. I get to the doctors
office early too. I hate being late, just ruins my day I see the
younger guys drive up and park just as they were opening the doors to
the shop and wonder how they could live with that. Guess new values,
or is it lack of pride in self and work ethics
CC
CC

Lord knows I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth or anything, so
help me understand this.
I get showing up early to do what you have to do in order to start
"working" at clock-in.

But these guys can't even get in the shop doors, right?
Are you saying they should show up and sit in the parking lot for 20
minutes?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply