I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some of
you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning rearranging
and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

Ron

"ron" wrote in
:


Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to
take up the room you have.


No. You will always accumulate *more* stuff than you have space for,
regardless of how much space you have!

--
sm@ug dot ichorfang
at gmail dot com

As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.


Wow. I'd trade a thumb and two marbles for that space.

I've been woodworking in the front half of a two car garage for almost
20 yrs, it measures 19' X 9'. In addiion to my wood tools and
supplies, I also store my mechanics tools and lawn equipment.

Needless to say, I have very little make-up space, so I make small
projects. And, to use the TS, I have to move stuff to the bench. To
use the bench, I have to move stuff to the TS. I store my good boards
in my office.

Anyway, "small shop syndrome" is an ugly condition, but it can be
overcome.

-Zz

(Zz Yzx rhymes with "Isaacs")

ron wrote:

I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some
of you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning
rearranging
and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to
take up the room you have.

Most definitely one tends to take up the available space. That said,
having more space does allow for more options.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"ron" wrote in message
...
I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some
of you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning
rearranging and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting
places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to
take up the room you have.

Ron



Mobil bases! I work out of a garage 18 x 25. In it is a Honda Accord,
freezer, washer & dryer, water heater, 2 tall tool chests, drill press, drum
sander, dust collector, router table, 15" stationary planer, jointer,
cabinet saw 50", band saw, spindle sander, disk sander, lathe, work bench,
file cabinet, Festool vac and sanders and domino, compressor and then all
the small stuff. It takes me about 15 minutes to clean up put away
equipment and park the car in the garage.

On Aug 16, 3:02 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"ron" wrote in message

...



I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some
of you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning
rearranging and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting
places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to
take up the room you have.

Ron

Mobil bases! I work out of a garage 18 x 25. In it is a Honda Accord,
freezer, washer & dryer, water heater, 2 tall tool chests, drill press, drum
sander, dust collector, router table, 15" stationary planer, jointer,
cabinet saw 50", band saw, spindle sander, disk sander, lathe, work bench,
file cabinet, Festool vac and sanders and domino, compressor and then all
the small stuff. It takes me about 15 minutes to clean up put away
equipment and park the car in the garage.

I've pretty much finished a book on woodworking shops. My conclusion
(added to looking around my own 25' x 48' shop) is that guys who are
naturally neat tend to set things up the best, but still accumulate
more than the available space will comfortably hold.

Not being naturally neat, I find my shop is a mess almost all the
time. When I built this place, my wife finished nailing down the floor
(hey, she bought it for me for a Christmas present, and she got a kick
out of using a coil nailer, so why not?), she said, You'll never fill
this space." Shortly after we finished the exterior walls and got the
wiring in, I got an assignment to test contractor's saws. That
eventually found 11 saws in the shop, in various stages of assembly
and use. Whadda mess!

There is no such thing as too much space for a shop. I bought my
2 bdrm house BECAUSE it had a four car detached garage. Ran 220,
water line, sewer line and gas to it. Finished half of the garage - for
a jewelry shop and converted that for stained glass. Took over the
other half for woodworking. Eventually converted the stained glass
space to a a layout/ assembly/finishing space - with ply storage as
well. There are wood racks under the eaves behind the shop. STILL
don't have enough room - and that's with a 5 function combination
machine (table saw with sliding table, shaper, joiner, planer,
horizontal
mortiser) which has a relatively small footprint - with a "mobility kit"
which lets you turn the unit or move it - a little (it's 1100 pounds).

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/TheShop/ShopMap.html

It's not just the square footage to consider - but "wood alleys"
and human paths. A table saw location that allows you to open a garage
door or shop door on the infeed side will let you rip 4x8 sheets of ply
lengthwise - a LOT of space needed if you can't use "outside" space.

And table top height - if most are at or above table saw table height
they may do double duty as outfeed tables - but don't count on that
since ALL horizontal surface above floor level get occupied fairly
quickly.

Start with 600 - 800 sf or more. More is always better - just like
clamps ; )

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:50:24 -0500, "ron"
wrote:

I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some of
you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.

that's what mine is without the closed off section

Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning rearranging
and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

I've not tested that theory to infinity, but, as far as I've gone, yes
it is true.

The new shop (and house) are on the drawing board. House will shed
1400 sq.ft. and the shop will grow from 384 to 864

Frank

Ron

On Aug 16, 12:50 pm, "ron" wrote:
I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some of
you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning rearranging
and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

There is no such thing as a full shop, only woodworkers who haven't
gotten around to the next reorganizing.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...


I've pretty much finished a book on woodworking shops. My conclusion
(added to looking around my own 25' x 48' shop) is that guys who are
naturally neat tend to set things up the best, but still accumulate
more than the available space will comfortably hold.

Not being naturally neat, I find my shop is a mess almost all the
time. When I built this place, my wife finished nailing down the floor
(hey, she bought it for me for a Christmas present, and she got a kick
out of using a coil nailer, so why not?), she said, You'll never fill
this space." Shortly after we finished the exterior walls and got the
wiring in, I got an assignment to test contractor's saws. That
eventually found 11 saws in the shop, in various stages of assembly
and use. Whadda mess!

I'd like to get a copy when it is published Charlie. I am relative
organized and neat, adding the dust collector and Festool Vac after some 25
years of doing with out has helped more than I could have imagined.
If your book is not finished you should add a chapter on keeping the work
bench cleared off. Perhaps the ability to tilt the bench top to a 45 degree
angle at the end of the day. ;~)

Now lets see here.... 25 x 48 shop 2.6 times bigger than mine,,, 11 Table
Saws..... Yeah you are/were crowded. LOL

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:50:24 -0500, "ron" wrote:

I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some of
you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning rearranging
and moving all my larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

Ron

IMHO, you can never have too much space, but the more space, the more stuff you
seem to have in it..

16x24'?
Not what most folks would consider small.. ;-]

Mine's 18x22 and after working in a 2 car garage filled with family stuff for
most of my life, my shop seems HUGE.. lol

OTOH, in my case only the lathes, bandsaw and hand tools are IN the shop, the
rest are in the carport..


I think that size needed also depends on what you do in the shop... If you're
ripping 12 or 16' boards, you need more space or different dimensions than if
you're making jewelry boxes or segmented bowls..

Personally, I find that I prefer a smaller area and am forced to keep it more
organized than I would in a larger area..
When I found that I'd rather have stuff like the TS, planner, router table and
sharpening stuff outside, I gave my wife the back 6' of the shop for storage..

Being lazy, I appreciate that my bench is now about 3or 4' from the lathe,
instead of almost 10'.. It's a bitch getting old..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:40:09 -0700, Zz Yzx wrote:

I've been woodworking in the front half of a two car garage for almost
20 yrs, it measures 19' X 9'. In addiion to my wood tools and
supplies, I also store my mechanics tools and lawn equipment.

Needless to say, I have very little make-up space, so I make small
projects. And, to use the TS, I have to move stuff to the bench. To
use the bench, I have to move stuff to the TS. I store my good boards
in my office.

Anyway, "small shop syndrome" is an ugly condition, but it can be
overcome.

-Zz

I feel your pain.. worked that way for years, which is the main reason that
almost everything I have is on wheels.. The driveway was where most of the tools
were when in use, then rolled back in later..
I remember using the washer & dryer for a glue-up area several times..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 19:18:38 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

I'd like to get a copy when it is published Charlie. I am relative
organized and neat, adding the dust collector and Festool Vac after some 25
years of doing with out has helped more than I could have imagined.
If your book is not finished you should add a chapter on keeping the work
bench cleared off. Perhaps the ability to tilt the bench top to a 45 degree
angle at the end of the day. ;~)

I'm pretty anal about my tools.. each tool, down to bench screw drivers and
center punch, has it's place and I want it there when I reach for it..
I vacuum or sweep several times a day when I'm turning, partly because I want
to, partly because the shop is part of the house..
My wife knows that if she uses a tool and isn't SURE where to put it back, then
it goes on the bench and I'll put it away..

We're both sort of amazed how clean and organized the shop is, because the rest
of my life, trucks, desk, etc. are definitely NOT clean or organized.. ;-]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote

I remember using the washer & dryer for a glue-up area several times..


Washer and dryer, eh?

I used to unplug the dryer and plug in a heavy duty 220 extension cord I
made up to power a welder.

Lee Michaels wrote:
"mac davis" wrote

I remember using the washer & dryer for a glue-up area several
times..


Washer and dryer, eh?

I used to unplug the dryer and plug in a heavy duty 220 extension
cord I made up to power a welder.

My dryer outlet has at various times powered a RAS, a band saw, and a
5 HP cyclone, before I got around to wiring dedicated outlets for
each. Of course it also has been known to power a dryer on occasion.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Aug 16, 12:50*pm, "ron" wrote:
I am at best a wood working hobbyist, certainly not in the league of some of
you guys posting here.
I have a small shop 16x24 with an 8 foot square section closed off for
storage, compressor and the like.
Having just finished a gun cabinet project, I spent the morning rearranging
and moving all my *larger tools back into their nesting places.
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work space, I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

Ron

20' x 50' is justabout right for a small commercial shop. If you do a
lot of flat stuff, like countertops, that won't do.

Being lazy, I appreciate that my bench is now about 3or 4' from the lathe,
instead of almost 10'.. It's a bitch getting old..


mac

Getting old isn't for sissies

On Aug 18, 4:27 am, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:
Being lazy, I appreciate that my bench is now about 3or 4' from the lathe,
instead of almost 10'.. It's a bitch getting old..

mac

Getting old isn't for sissies

True. These days I get up in the morning with more aches than I had
for my entire time at Parris Island.

Less than two months to my next zero.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:27:23 +0300, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Being lazy, I appreciate that my bench is now about 3or 4' from the lathe,
instead of almost 10'.. It's a bitch getting old..


mac

Getting old isn't for sissies

No ****... It's a major adjustment.. lol
Hardest part was probably when I started asking the kids to move stuff for me
because they heal faster..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Self
wrote:

On Aug 18, 4:27 am, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:
Being lazy, I appreciate that my bench is now about 3or 4' from the lathe,
instead of almost 10'.. It's a bitch getting old..

mac

Getting old isn't for sissies

True. These days I get up in the morning with more aches than I had
for my entire time at Parris Island.

Less than two months to my next zero.

I think I'm a few years behind ya, Charlie..
A little over 2 months before I can get ol' farts money, if they don't run out
first..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:27:23 +0300, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Getting old isn't for sissies

No ****... It's a major adjustment.. lol
Hardest part was probably when I started asking the kids to move stuff for me
because they heal faster..

I hear you. I've started building "helpers" to make it easier to move
stuff around the shop. I suspect you've already seen my panel/sheet cart
(photos at link below)...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/PanelCart/

I have 1500 sqft and I have to walk around things
to go through the shop. The design is very basic
30x50 and it's amazing how the space just disappears.


ron wrote:

Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

Ron

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I have 1500 sqft and I have to walk around things
to go through the shop. The design is very basic
30x50 and it's amazing how the space just disappears.

You sucketh!

On Aug 18, 6:44*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Pat Barber" wrote in message

...

I have 1500 sqft and I have to walk around things
to go through the shop. The design is very basic
30x50 and it's amazing how the space just disappears.

You sucketh!

Guess I better keep _my_ mouth shut then, eh?

Yes. I wouldn't call these "big", but here's mine:

http://www.spaco.org/myshop.htm

This is all super clean for me. When I can't stand it anymore, I move
stuff to outbuildings. People who are neater than I am are always
offering me the stuff they don't want to have cluttering up THEIR shops.
At age 69, I am finally starting to say "no", but the damage has
already been done.

Just Google "my shop" and see what others do----

Pete Stanaitis
------------------------------


ron wrote:
snip
I
couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops, have the same
space problems.
Is it really true, what they say? You will always find enough stuff to take
up the room you have.

Ron

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Lee Michaels wrote:
"mac davis" wrote

I remember using the washer & dryer for a glue-up area several
times..


Washer and dryer, eh?

I used to unplug the dryer and plug in a heavy duty 220 extension
cord I made up to power a welder.

My dryer outlet has at various times powered a RAS, a band saw, and a
5 HP cyclone, before I got around to wiring dedicated outlets for
each. Of course it also has been known to power a dryer on occasion.


Ah, there's nothing like freshly frozen clothes brought in from the line
in 20F temperatures. :-)

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Puckdropper wrote:

Ah, there's nothing like freshly frozen clothes brought in from the line
in 20F temperatures. :-)

Wrinkle-free!

On 24 Aug 2008 06:22:50 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

My dryer outlet has at various times powered a RAS, a band saw, and a
5 HP cyclone, before I got around to wiring dedicated outlets for
each. Of course it also has been known to power a dryer on occasion.


Ah, there's nothing like freshly frozen clothes brought in from the line
in 20F temperatures. :-)

Puckdropper

Hell, we're cold here if it's 20C...
After almost 2 years in Mexico, I think my wife has used the dryer twice.. She
loves line drying..

Doesn't make a lot of difference to me, though, because in this house, the dryer
is in the kitchen so I can't steal the plug for tools like I did in the garage
in the States..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

ron wrote:

As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work
space, I couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops,
have the same space problems. Is it really true, what they say? You
will always find enough stuff to take up the room you have.

More or less. My shop is 50'x50' and is used for prototyping and
production of solar heating panels that are typically either 4'x6' or
8'x6', so there's a need for machining, assembly, finishing, and packing
sizable objects.

My problem hasn't so much been that I keep finding stuff to take up the
room as that I keep building new tools and shop accessories to make the
work easier - and I've discovered that there's a point of diminishing
returns beyond which each new labor-saving accessory reduces the
available space so as to make the job less easy.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Aug 24, 10:34*am, Morris Dovey wrote:
ron wrote:
As I was finishing up and day-dreaming about having a larger work
space, I couldn't help but wonder if some of y'all with big shops,
have the same space problems. Is it really true, what they say? You
will always find enough stuff to take up the room you have.

More or less. My shop is 50'x50' and is used for prototyping and
production of solar heating panels that are typically either 4'x6' or
8'x6', so there's a need for machining, assembly, finishing, and packing
sizable objects.

My problem hasn't so much been that I keep finding stuff to take up the
room as that I keep building new tools and shop accessories to make the
work easier - and I've discovered that there's a point of diminishing
returns beyond which each new labor-saving accessory reduces the
available space so as to make the job less easy.


Oh boy, do I know what you mean. Countertops are notoriously flat, big
and awkward and in many cases need to be worked on from all angles.
Just to make the strips which are then used in the fabrication
process. Too floppy for unsupported transport between the table saw
and the shaper, that combo alone 8 x 24. And, as with all horizontal
surfaces, quickly covered in sanders, boxes, sinks, 30 x 144" sheet
inventories which have to be stored flat and 4 x 8' stock//and then
rolls of laminate.... almost 2000 sq ft and all that's left is a
narrow path to the coffee machine. And I haven't even mentioned the
General Gorilla yet.

But... there's a salmon swimming in Georgian Bay which doesn't have a
clue that the next item it bites into has a line attached to a Robbie
at the other end. Light the Q, food is coming.
I am soooooooooo outta here.

*poof*

Robatoy wrote:

But... there's a salmon swimming in Georgian Bay which doesn't have a
clue that the next item it bites into has a line attached to a Robbie
at the other end. Light the Q, food is coming.
I am soooooooooo outta here.

*poof*

What time is dinner?

I'll bring desert, got an apple pie, vanilla ice cream, and some old
cheddar.

/me loads cooler and hops in the car.
--
Froz...

Google "My Workshop" (use the quotes!)