Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

Wow! I don't know of one, but what a cool idea! I wonder how much insurance
would cost?

wrote

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to work
with their hands.

Sorry, I can't help you with that but your question got
me to thinking that maybe local job-shops ought to offer
people the chance to use their equipment and learn how
to run a mill/lathe/ect, while getting some free work out
of them?

For example, I run a (manual) vertical mill at work but
would also like to learn how to use a CNC mill and lathe.

I'd be willing to stop by after work for a few of hours a
week and work for "Joe Blow's Machine Shop", turning
out parts on his CNC mill and/or lathe, in exchange for
him teaching me how to use these machines.

I'd get some experience and training for free and he'd get
some work done for free.

There would also be the added benefit of "cross-pollination"
of potential employee/employer; He may need someone to
replace an employee who leaves and would already know
of a possible replacement and I may need a job in the future
and would already know of a shop that might hire me.

Any of you shop owners think an idea like this might work
and what issues would need to be considered before you'd
be willing to give it a try?

"Kelly Jones" wrote in message news:ssudnVSk-
Wow! I don't know of one, but what a cool idea! I wonder how much
insurance
would cost?


Insurance cost?......Exactly one of the top reasons you don't see this type
of business anywhere.

This concept existed...may still exist....up north (Ohio)...in the sixties
for auto-repair. They supplied the lifts, tools, etc...and had a
knowledgeable person on site to assist without actually doing the labor.
They also had competitively priced common parts available on site.

I would assume that anything like this nowadays would be impossible from an
insurance perspective, and even if it were, the first insurance settlement
would destroy it.



wrote in message
ups.com...
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

people the chance to use their equipment and learn how
to run a mill/lathe/ect, while getting some free work out
of them?


"learn how" costs would only be second to "insurance costs"

Prior to retirement, I ran a number of navy shops and hobby shop facilities
and "learning how" was very time consuming and generally hard on equipment
and tooling. Hence, only qualified shop personnel were allow to operate shop
equipment. In the hobby shops, we would have indoctrination sessions about
once a week and verified that hobbyist had enough knowledge to not hurt
themselves, other and finally, not damage the machines or tooling.

Assistance in set up, tool selection, machine speed, etc. can require
considerable supervisory attention in a learning or hobby shop setting.

I'm not a very knowledgeable machinist, although I have been a supervisor of
a medium size machine shop (yep! that was me.) Only now that I'm fully
retired, go hang out with other metal workers and exchange ideas and shop
practices. If I'm lucky, they might let me do a job on one of their
machines. However, it is always evident that they would rather I make my
mistakes on my own machines. Hence I am now, at the age of 68, setting up a
medium size machine shop, plus my usual welding, wood working and metal
fabrication equipment. The jobs I do will never justify the amount I am
spending or the space it takes up, but at least I'm not working with someone
else's prized machine.


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW

Steve

wrote:
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.



Just this past year, someone on this NG posted a link to just such a
place here in the Peoples Republik of Massachusetts. I wnat to say that
it was in Woburn, but am not 100% sure on that. A quick search did not
find it, but maybe some more skillful googling could.

The place had a website that showed wood and metal shop machines and a
forge with "more to come"... I think you had to sign up and take a
saftey course to use the machines and you could purchase memberships for
cheaper rates on shop time, classes and other benifits. Woburn is maybe
25 minutes from here, but I never went to see it, though I found the
concept interesting.


Not sure if they still exist. My brain has lost any further details.
Maybe someone else here can recall the discussion.

Al A.

PS - PLEASE! somebody find it so that I know I was not imaganing it all...

I occasionally see ads for shared shop space. Typically this is for
floor space plus access to a big table saw and whatever else is in the
space. Plan on hundreds of $$$ per month.

I have also seen flyers for auto shop with lift. $20 an hour or so.

A local community center may have wood (and other) shop space for the
casual user.

wrote:

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

"Hari Seldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to work
with their hands.

Sorry, I can't help you with that but your question got
me to thinking that maybe local job-shops ought to offer
people the chance to use their equipment and learn how
to run a mill/lathe/ect, while getting some free work out
of them?

For example, I run a (manual) vertical mill at work but
would also like to learn how to use a CNC mill and lathe.

I'd be willing to stop by after work for a few of hours a
week and work for "Joe Blow's Machine Shop", turning
out parts on his CNC mill and/or lathe, in exchange for
him teaching me how to use these machines.

I'd get some experience and training for free and he'd get
some work done for free.

There would also be the added benefit of "cross-pollination"
of potential employee/employer; He may need someone to
replace an employee who leaves and would already know
of a possible replacement and I may need a job in the future
and would already know of a shop that might hire me.

Any of you shop owners think an idea like this might work
and what issues would need to be considered before you'd
be willing to give it a try?


While I am no longer running my machines for gain, without question, I
wouldn't permit *ANYONE* that is not a seasoned machinist to touch my
machines. That includes family members. Machine tools are costly, and
easily damaged by those that have little or no experience.

Harold

On 29 Jan 2006 08:51:24 -0800, "
wrote:

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

Insurance would be a killer. Some dude did something stupid, or simply
ding himself slightly..and the lawsuits would fly.

I personally keep an "open shop". Most folks are invited to come over
and play..but they break anything..they fix it. They hurt themselves
and try to sue..well..I have acess to a backhoe and 2500 square miles
of desert. Such folks are really pretty nice, down deep.

Gunner

"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits"
John Griffin

wrote:
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.



Found it!
It was called "Sparqs Industrial Arts Club" located in Woburn Mass.
it appears to have fallen prey to any and all of the issues mentioned in
this thread, and is now out of business. If you google the name, you
will find links to a few articles that state that they ran out of funding.

I don't have much need for such a service, but I thought the concept
was cool.


Link to the original RCM thread he

http://tinyurl.com/8zdvl


AL A.

The best way I know of handling such a situation is to join a model
making club (model engineering, model live steam, model ships, etc.) in
your area, and get to know the better knowledgable members well.

Then for the services a member provides for you, you offer something of
value in return (free legal, dental, medical, sevices etc. are always
welcome)!

That's how I do it, but not just restricted to the list above, which is
a little, but only a little, tongue-in-cheek. Eg. offer to buy a
nice-to-have tool which could otherwise not be justified.

Under NO circumstances would I allow anyone to operate my machinery,
for the very good reasons given by others here. A band saw or drill
press might be an exeption.

The only alternative I can think of is to take machine shop classes at
your community college. Once you have learned the basics of machine
tool operation you can talk to the professor and he would cut you some
slack to make your own stuff........I certainly would have.

But, without good and demonstrable machining skills it is highly
unlikely that you will get to use privately owned machines.

Trust this helps.

Wolfgang

I just acquired and am moving into a 2650 sqft shop and I am planning to
expand that by another 1600 sqft.

Now most might question why anyone would need 4000+ sqft of shop if not in
business. The answer, I live in the rainy Pac. NW, have many interests and
hobbies and frequently jump from one to another. Hence, many incomplete
project to protect. Vehicles take up a lot of space and spare parts vehicles
take up some more.

My original intent was to rent out half the space to another hobbyist but
along came my brother who is heavy into VWs and 2/3 of the original floor
plan has been absorbed my his collection.. Funny, I don't see a rent check
coming every month (so far). However I have installed a separate power
circuit and meter to his end of the building.

Now, I must figure out how to contain him to 1/3rd of the space.

My point, check around for a family member or friend who might have some
space to rent.

Another prospect and I did this in San Diego. Rent a storage unit where the
manager will look the other way while you work in you space. The place I
found had one group of 12X20 unit which opened to the exterior of,
otherwise, fenced compound. This allow less security but did allow 24hr/day
access and no need to go thru the gate. There were a couple Mexican
mechanics working out of their units. The draw back was very limited
electric power. Mainly it was the lighting circuit with drop cords and you
had to be sure no one else was loading it down when your compressor was
turned on.

There may be some smallish industrial parks that could offer a small portion
of a Co-op leased area for an individual to rent/lease and then provide your
own machines or maybe share some common machines.

Just my thoughts.

Steve



"RoyJ" wrote in message
nk.net...
I occasionally see ads for shared shop space. Typically this is for floor
space plus access to a big table saw and whatever else is in the space.
Plan on hundreds of $$$ per month.

I have also seen flyers for auto shop with lift. $20 an hour or so.

A local community center may have wood (and other) shop space for the
casual user.

wrote:

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

A few years ago, in the San Fran. area, the old Hunters Point (former) navy
shipyard was mostly vacant and the city was offering loft or shop space for
about $.25/sq ft. Not bad. You could get a small area for your hobby or
Cottage Industry. The last time I was there, it was still mostly, under
utilized.

Just a thought

Steve

wrote in message
ups.com...
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

According to :
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

The followups which I have seen so far have focused on the
reasons why such are rare at best.

But -- unless you have free air fare to anywhere, and lots of
time, I would think that such a question would be best accompanied with
a rough idea of where you live, so someone could have an idea whether an
existing facility would be close enough to you to make it practical.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I do this sometimes for people I like or for interesting projects. I
don't make a business of it though.

Sometimes something is so hard without the right tools, but so easy
with the right tools. In that situation I'm happy to help out.

I just finished up with someone a few minuets ago. Nice university
student from my old school (NCSU, yay wolfpack). He is an engineering
student and the captain of their race team. I let them come and use my
shop for some special parts for their car. They basically know what
they're doing, but don't have the equipment or special skills for
certain things.

They bring their own cutters (which won't work sometimes and end up
using mine), their own material and CAD files. I'll program the CNC and
stand there if necessary. They can use the BP or lathe if they know
how, but I'm out there when they do. They do all their own "indicating
in" and tool setting. I'll write the program from their CAD data and
send it over. If the program is running smooth and is going to take a
while I'll show them where the big red button is and go do something
else.

They pay for machine time and cutters, and supply their own labor and
material, but my time is free because I like them and what they're
doing. He has had two weekends and made a number of parts, and the
total cost was, well, not much.

I'm north of Charlotte NC - if you are in this area and you have
something that would be just so simple if you just had access to a
Mill, lathe, CNC, TIG, Plasma, heat treat or other basic shop type
stuff you can send me an email with specifics and we'll talk about it.

"I personally keep an "open shop". Most folks are invited to come over

and play..but they break anything..they fix it. They hurt themselves
and try to sue..well..I have acess to a backhoe and 2500 square miles
of desert. Such folks are really pretty nice, down deep. "

heh heh. Thats good Gunner. I like it.

Steve wrote
Hari Seldon wrote

people the chance to use their equipment and learn how
to run a mill/lathe/ect, while getting some free work out
of them?

"learn how" costs would only be second to "insurance costs"

True, but one could start on simple stuff or only do one operation
at a time and I'm looking at this as the employer/"teacher" only
dealing with working machinists as "students", not newbies who
have no idea what's going on.

And maybe a way to deal with the insurance issue is for the "student"
to be treated as a contractor, exchanging work done for the employer
for skills learned?

"Kelly Jones" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

Wow! I don't know of one, but what a cool idea! I wonder how much
insurance would cost?


It's not a matter of cost, it's a matter of availability. I thought about
doing something like this a few years ago and had my insurance broker check
around. Not even one of the specialty insurance companies would touch it.

Steve.

On 29 Jan 2006 08:51:24 -0800, "
wrote:

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

Community college?

ArtP

Al A. wrote:
....
It was called "Sparqs Industrial Arts Club" located in Woburn Mass.
... is now out of business. ...

I was the one who posted about Sparqs. I dropped in once, out of
curiosity and spoke to the owner. It was a nice setup and he was/is a
nice guy. I said something about insurance, about it must be a killer.
His reply was no, the insurance isn't so bad - the killer is the rent.
He needed quite a bit of space and it had to be in a good
(convenient = expensive) location. Nobody was going to go to the
boondocks to use machines. He had dreams of franchising it. Didn't
last long, too bad.

Bob

Here in Louisville back in the 1970's there was a garage called Rent A
Wrench or something like that, that would rent out space and/or tools
as needed. They provided a lift, compressed air, wrenches and any other
tools that would be used for ordinary parts replacement-type work at so
much per hour. Customers could, of course, bring their own tools if
they had them. They closed down around 1979, don't know if it was due
to lack of demand, lack of money or what, and since then there have not
been any other shops in the area that do this.
If the unavailability or high cost of insurance is the problem, one
way around this might be to just operate without it, and advertise that
fact, therefore (in theory) discouraging lawsuits since there would not
be enough money available to make it worth a lawyer's time.
The concept of a co-op machine shop open to the public is a good one
up to a point, but if I was the owner I would want to be able to verify
that the customer knew how to operate the equipment before turning them
loose with it.

Mike

Hari Seldon wrote:

wrote

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to work
with their hands.

Sorry, I can't help you with that but your question got
me to thinking that maybe local job-shops ought to offer
people the chance to use their equipment and learn how
to run a mill/lathe/ect, while getting some free work out
of them?

For example, I run a (manual) vertical mill at work but
would also like to learn how to use a CNC mill and lathe.

I'd be willing to stop by after work for a few of hours a
week and work for "Joe Blow's Machine Shop", turning
out parts on his CNC mill and/or lathe, in exchange for
him teaching me how to use these machines.

I'd get some experience and training for free and he'd get
some work done for free.

There would also be the added benefit of "cross-pollination"
of potential employee/employer; He may need someone to
replace an employee who leaves and would already know
of a possible replacement and I may need a job in the future
and would already know of a shop that might hire me.

Any of you shop owners think an idea like this might work
and what issues would need to be considered before you'd
be willing to give it a try?




It all depends on the individual and his basic skills and how he
handles himself around machinery. I have no problem letting some one
run my machines if he has good basic skills with tools.

John

There was a guild - old name - of wood workers where I used to live. They had
a small shop and trained each other on the machines.
The year before I got to town - '86 or such - two of the men really wanted 1 plank
of wood. It was bought in a batch for the group. The men got into a fight
and one died. So sometimes there can be problems that are not expected.
The guild disbanded - the shop on someones land stayed locked. I guess
the county will get it or some un-suspecting family member down the line.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Al A. wrote:
wrote:

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.



Found it!
It was called "Sparqs Industrial Arts Club" located in Woburn Mass.
it appears to have fallen prey to any and all of the issues mentioned in
this thread, and is now out of business. If you google the name, you
will find links to a few articles that state that they ran out of funding.

I don't have much need for such a service, but I thought the concept
was cool.


Link to the original RCM thread he

http://tinyurl.com/8zdvl


AL A.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "
wrote on 29 Jan 2006 08:51:24 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands.

I used to know of such places, but that was before the plague of
lawyers drove the insurance companies to ban anyone not certified from
using the machines.
Power tools are dangerous, and can maim you before you can say "that's
gonna hurt."

All said, the only place I know of which would let you do your own
projects, and learn a bit, are the tech schools. Talk to the instructor,
get their input/permission, and sign up for the night classes Just accept
the fact that what you make is going to be "way" expensive. I've two sets
of 1-2-3 blocks. One set was $25 plus tax, the other closer to $400. The
difference is I bought the first set in a pawnshop, the second set I made
in class. Milled, heat treated and ground to size. They are "mostly"
flat, and square.

Any information would be appreciated.

Good luck.

pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote on Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:12:26 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

There would also be the added benefit of "cross-pollination"
of potential employee/employer; He may need someone to
replace an employee who leaves and would already know
of a possible replacement and I may need a job in the future
and would already know of a shop that might hire me.

Any of you shop owners think an idea like this might work
and what issues would need to be considered before you'd
be willing to give it a try?


While I am no longer running my machines for gain, without question, I
wouldn't permit *ANYONE* that is not a seasoned machinist to touch my
machines. That includes family members. Machine tools are costly, and
easily damaged by those that have little or no experience.

I'd be a little leery about allowing seasoned mechanists near the
machines. They can make mistakes which are much more intricate and costly.
Co-worker managed to get things a little messed up, shut down a good 40% of
the production.
Seems he tried something clever (that only a clever person would know
about) and wound up with the machine thinking that it had Pallet A in hand,
which it wants to swap with the one in ... station ... A. Yes, it 'wants'
to put this pallet 'back' where there already is a pallet, but the
interlocks have prevented this crash (yeah team) but in the mean time ...
nothing can be done. It's unlocked, and nothing seems to work. Even the
unplug and replug option doesn't clear things.
Ooops.

I asked him what he did, and he rightly answered it was something I
wouldn't understand. Like I said, clever people make for better idiots,
they don't make simple mistakes. They make complex, complicated,
"intere$ting" mistakes.
--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

Try a community college.

Woodworking, metalworking, welding etc. can be had for just
the price of a course. I'm amazed that they can still have
these courses available due to insurance and injuries.

I took TIG welding a year ago and in one of the stick
welding classes a lady cut her fingers off on on hand with
the iron worker. Was pushing a piece of steel in there to
cut just an inch off it. All of us got some "special
education" on the use of the steel worker and additional
guards were added. I always used a pusher piece of scrap cuz
I had alot of respect for a shear that can cut 1/2" steel plate.

I can't imagine how the issue was settled and I don't even
want to imagine being in the shop when it happened.

UGH!

And you want to do this at a private company?

Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.

Jim Newell wrote:
This concept existed...may still exist....up north (Ohio)...in the sixties
for auto-repair. They supplied the lifts, tools, etc...and had a
knowledgeable person on site to assist without actually doing the labor.
They also had competitively priced common parts available on site.

I would assume that anything like this nowadays would be impossible from an
insurance perspective, and even if it were, the first insurance settlement
would destroy it.



wrote in message
ups.com...

Is anyone aware of any businesses or co-op's where a person can go in
and use woodworking, metal, or other types of tools and machinery for
personal or hobby use. A place designed for the person that doesn't
have the cash, space, or need for specialize tools but does like to
work with their hands. Any information would be appreciated.

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote on Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:12:26 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

There would also be the added benefit of "cross-pollination"
of potential employee/employer; He may need someone to
replace an employee who leaves and would already know
of a possible replacement and I may need a job in the future
and would already know of a shop that might hire me.

Any of you shop owners think an idea like this might work
and what issues would need to be considered before you'd
be willing to give it a try?


While I am no longer running my machines for gain, without question, I
wouldn't permit *ANYONE* that is not a seasoned machinist to touch my
machines. That includes family members. Machine tools are costly, and
easily damaged by those that have little or no experience.

I'd be a little leery about allowing seasoned mechanists near the
machines. They can make mistakes which are much more intricate and
costly.
Co-worker managed to get things a little messed up, shut down a good 40%
of
the production.
Seems he tried something clever (that only a clever person would know
about) and wound up with the machine thinking that it had Pallet A in
hand,
which it wants to swap with the one in ... station ... A. Yes, it
'wants'
to put this pallet 'back' where there already is a pallet, but the
interlocks have prevented this crash (yeah team) but in the mean time ...
nothing can be done. It's unlocked, and nothing seems to work. Even the
unplug and replug option doesn't clear things.
Ooops.

I asked him what he did, and he rightly answered it was something I
wouldn't understand. Like I said, clever people make for better idiots,
they don't make simple mistakes. They make complex, complicated,
"intere$ting" mistakes.
--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

OK----that settles it. NO ONE touches my machines. A good friend let a
somewhat experienced "machinist" (mail delivery person full time, part time
machinist) on his 17" More-Seiki and was rewarded with a carriage rammed
into the chuck while threading. Cost him the lead screw and other minor
damage.

I the past, I've gone on and on extolling the differences between
machinists and people who make chips. They're not the same thing. It takes
years of machine time to get proficient, and it can be damned costly along
the way. I can't tell you the number of killer expensive magnesium castings
I scrapped in the process of learning to run a mill. Sigh! Luckily, I
don't recall ever damaging a machine. Maybe I was lucky. Sure had some
close calls, though.

Harold

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote on Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:35:35 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

OK----that settles it. NO ONE touches my machines. A good friend let a
somewhat experienced "machinist" (mail delivery person full time, part time
machinist) on his 17" More-Seiki and was rewarded with a carriage rammed
into the chuck while threading. Cost him the lead screw and other minor
damage.

I hope the friend offered to at the least help to defray the costs of
repairs.

I the past, I've gone on and on extolling the differences between
machinists and people who make chips. They're not the same thing. It takes
years of machine time to get proficient, and it can be damned costly along
the way. I can't tell you the number of killer expensive magnesium castings
I scrapped in the process of learning to run a mill.

That is why the company starts people on the Robomills, making the
"cheap" parts, before putting them on something more expensive.

Sigh! Luckily, I
don't recall ever damaging a machine. Maybe I was lucky. Sure had some
close calls, though.

I haven't damaged a machine, permanently, but I have had to dial one
(or two) back in after crashing it.
I hate it when that happens.




--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

I am posting to my own question rather than thank each of you who
provided input on my posting. I appreciated all of your comments.
To clarify, I am in Minnesota and am interested in starting such a
business here. The insuruance issue is obviously a big one, but the
others issues raised also pose interesting questions some of which may
kill the idea before it goes to far.

--The bottom line: yes they do exist, but the scary downside is some
newbie that goes for it, makes a bloody mess then sues every one in sight.
IMO the best way to have a go at something co-op is to make pals with the
shop foreman at the local adult ed facility. If there isn't one start
lobbying to get one going.
--I didn't get your location; where are you? Maybe someone on the
list can suggest stuff in your neck of the woods?

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : I can make damn near anything
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : ...except money, sigh.
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
snip-----

I hope the friend offered to at the least help to defray the costs of
repairs.

I don't recall how it all ended, but I do recall that a new lead screw was
well over $1,000. My buddy ended up buying some Acme all thread and making
a new one instead of buying one from the factory. A questionable solution
as far as I'm concerned, but he apparently got by well enough with the
repair. Due to a health condition, he has since sold his business and is
in sales. I recall that he wasn't a happy camper having let the novice
run his lathe.

Harold

Our local auto repair co-op declined at least in part because the
tools disappeared constantly. The ones that lasted were in awful
condition.

Jim Newell wrote:
This concept existed...may still exist....up north (Ohio)...in the sixties
for auto-repair. They supplied the lifts, tools, etc...and had a
knowledgeable person on site to assist without actually doing the labor.
They also had competitively priced common parts available on site.

I would assume that anything like this nowadays would be impossible from an
insurance perspective, and even if it were, the first insurance settlement
would destroy it.

Yep, inside everybody is ... soft and pink.
(Would you let someone use the backhoe and some of that desert?)

Gunner wrote:
I personally keep an "open shop". Most folks are invited to come over
and play..but they break anything..they fix it. They hurt themselves
and try to sue..well..I have acess to a backhoe and 2500 square miles
of desert. Such folks are really pretty nice, down deep.

steamer wrote:

--The bottom line: yes they do exist, but the scary downside is some
newbie that goes for it, makes a bloody mess then sues every one in sight.
IMO the best way to have a go at something co-op is to make pals with the
shop foreman at the local adult ed facility. If there isn't one start
lobbying to get one going.
--I didn't get your location; where are you? Maybe someone on the
list can suggest stuff in your neck of the woods?


There is another way. I found a need for a volunteer at a local
highschool that teaches metal shop and filled it. 4 bridgports
8 Clausing Metosas an old surface grinder a horizontal
bandsaw and 2 verticals couple of large drill presses an
ironworker, etc.etc. I help with the students on the lathes and
mills and then build things for myself or for the school the
rest of the time. Aint retirement great. :-)
...lew...

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
news | Al A. wrote:
| ...
| It was called "Sparqs Industrial Arts Club" located in Woburn Mass.
| ... is now out of business. ...
|
| I was the one who posted about Sparqs. I dropped in once, out of
| curiosity and spoke to the owner. It was a nice setup and he was/is a
| nice guy. I said something about insurance, about it must be a killer.
| His reply was no, the insurance isn't so bad - the killer is the rent.
| He needed quite a bit of space and it had to be in a good
| (convenient = expensive) location. Nobody was going to go to the
| boondocks to use machines. He had dreams of franchising it. Didn't
| last long, too bad.
|
| Bob

Years ago, before kids came along and ruined any thoughts of working for
myself, I spent a lot of time looking into this very kind of business.
Insurance wasn't that bad, unlike what appeared to be the case. My rules
would have been that each vehicle had to have had liability insurance on it
(I would want proof) and that all those present in the shop had to have the
appropriate safety gear on. Tools were checked in and out, and inventoried
at each transaction. You check out a set and you buy the whole thing if
it's not complete when I get it back. I would rent space out for a number
of reasons: Average Joe doing his oil change, Average Joe doing maintenance
of any kind on his vehicles, and how much stall rent he paid would depend on
how long he needed it. The longer he needed the space, the less it cost.
Occasionally dealerships get a recall and their shops get slammed, and I'd
lease them space. Auto shop safety and your basic women's pink shop rag
training classes would bring in a few bucks also. There would be a library
of just about every manual and text I could get my hands on, and you had to
have clean hands to get in. If I didn't have a major tool you needed, your
rent would go to zero until I got that tool or we worked something out. I
wouldn't sell much in the way of supplies or parts, but the nearest one or
two auto shops would provide me with a kickback for pointing sales their
direction, and would make a small cut of parts deliveries to the shop.
There also had to be some outside storage, storage racks, and a pressure
washing area.
What I couldn't get over is that in order to break even, I needed at
least about 15 stalls, and the more the better, which is quite a good sized
building. Tool control inventory software (actually, an accounting package
seemed to have the best modules to do all the charging and leases) was also
incredibly expensive. Here in the Pacific Northwest about October the
weather goes to **** for several months, so the demand would start up around
then. The things that concerned me most were location (duh!) and proximity
to sources of parts and supplies for the patrons. Any location that met
those needs had to have the right zoning, and thus was incredibly expensive.
The other thing was the stall cost to the patron. The target market is the
fellow that wants to work on his car but doesn't have the facilities, but a
particularly nasty subset of those is the trash that you see all too often
with a cinder block holding up a tire while they replace a starter. Car, of
course, parked on the side of a busy road, and liquor stores nearby. The
way to weed those guys out was to come up with a price that would keep the
trash out while not penalizing the fellow who really needs the facilities
and is willing to use his brain while there. Environmental issues were just
getting expensive, and I wasn't able to get a handle on how much of those
items I would be dealing with. I also needed to find skilled employees who
had better people skills than I have. It would have been ideal to find some
shot up former mechanics, but those guys are really hard to find. It turned
out to be way more than I had time for.
When I looked at startup costs (a ****load of money is tied up in good
quality tools!) the actual cost wasn't that high, as far as businesses go,
so that I didn't concern myself with that so much. Since there was no
inventory going in and out, and the valuable items theoretically never left
the shop, it wouldn't be such a huge loss to bail on the business if I had
to bail, hoping that is that one of those aforementioned pieces of trash
didn't try to make a few dimes off of me.

"Hari Seldon" wrote:

For example, I run a (manual) vertical mill at work but
would also like to learn how to use a CNC mill and lathe.

I'd be willing to stop by after work for a few of hours a
week and work for "Joe Blow's Machine Shop", turning
out parts on his CNC mill and/or lathe, in exchange for
him teaching me how to use these machines.

I'd get some experience and training for free and he'd get
some work done for free.

And risk damage to a 140K+ machine. Ain't going to happen.

Wes S
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