Not exactly a woodworking question, but who better
to ask.

I'm in the market for 5 new entry doors for my house.
Choises are steel, smooth fiberglass and wood grained
fiberglass. (I guess wood is an option, but I didn't
price any of those.)

Price roughly doubles as you move from steel to
smooth fiberglass, and doubles again when you move
to wood grained fiberglass.

So who's got an opinion about the material and if its
worth the price jump. Who makes a good door? a
bad door?

thanks

p.s. If you want to write up a quote, I need one 3-0(36"),
three 2-8(32"), and one 2-6(30") fire door, all with 5 1/4" jams,
no brick mold.

p.p.s. Any leads on a replacement for the 6-8 double
door for the back of my garage.

wrote:

Choises are steel, smooth fiberglass and wood grained
fiberglass. (I guess wood is an option, but I didn't
price any of those.)

Price roughly doubles as you move from steel to
smooth fiberglass, and doubles again when you move
to wood grained fiberglass.

So who's got an opinion about the material and if its
worth the price jump. Who makes a good door? a
bad door?

Without question, fiberglass is superior to steel, but I'm biased.

I built a fiberglass, not a steel boat.

Is it worth a 2:1 cost difference?

If you plan on staying in the house, yes.

Wood grained fiberglass requires a more complex mold, thus higher
cost.

Ask yourself a question:

If you chose steel, wouldn't it be smooth?

If so, why not smooth fiberglass?

Lew

Unless you are going to do this yourself, I would just go to a local
contractor and start there with him.

All steel doors are not the same, nor are their cores. The same with
fiberglass. The skins on both steel and fiberglass vary quite a bit
in thickness as do the composition of their cores and their respective
"R" ratings.

Ditto if you get prehung. With the actual product varying all across
the map, so do the prices. And since you will be relying on pricing
in your area as well as the exact manufacturer of the units sold
locally, it would be a bit of a stretch to make a qualified remark.

You should also consider your finishing skills. When I do a steel
entryway door, I use commercial alkyd paints mixed with different
thinners and a metallic hardener and sprayed in multiple coats. I
found no one wants to see brush strokes from using a can of Rustoleum
on a brand new door.

Fiberglass can present its own problems with adhesion, and with latex
finishes, no matter what the manufacturers say, I have always had
problems with adhesion in high traffic areas.

Staining fiberglass to look like wood.... take a class if they offer
it. Getting the color on isn't difficult, but getting it on evenly on
a semi slick surface is a trick. Then of course, you have to seal it.

Good luck.

Robert

I put in a Pella wood grained fiberglass door a couple of years ago
(new construction). We painted it and it looks great.

Len
---------------------

wrote:
Unless you are going to do this yourself, I would just go to a local
contractor and start there with him.

All steel doors are not the same, nor are their cores. The same with
fiberglass. The skins on both steel and fiberglass vary quite a bit
in thickness as do the composition of their cores and their respective
"R" ratings.

Ditto if you get prehung. With the actual product varying all across
the map, so do the prices. And since you will be relying on pricing
in your area as well as the exact manufacturer of the units sold
locally, it would be a bit of a stretch to make a qualified remark.

You should also consider your finishing skills. When I do a steel
entryway door, I use commercial alkyd paints mixed with different
thinners and a metallic hardener and sprayed in multiple coats. I
found no one wants to see brush strokes from using a can of Rustoleum
on a brand new door.

Fiberglass can present its own problems with adhesion, and with latex
finishes, no matter what the manufacturers say, I have always had
problems with adhesion in high traffic areas.

Staining fiberglass to look like wood.... take a class if they offer
it. Getting the color on isn't difficult, but getting it on evenly on
a semi slick surface is a trick. Then of course, you have to seal it.

Good luck.

Robert

wrote:

All steel doors are not the same, nor are their cores. The same
with
fiberglass. The skins on both steel and fiberglass vary quite a bit
in thickness as do the composition of their cores and their
respective
"R" ratings.

Gullible me.

Here I thought they would all use a standard urethane core.

Fiberglass can present its own problems with adhesion, and with
latex
finishes, no matter what the manufacturers say, I have always had
problems with adhesion in high traffic areas.

Time for the marine finishes.

High build epoxy primer followed by some good L/P which can be applied
with a mohair roller and tipped with a good brush.

Lew

On Jun 19, 8:23 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Gullible me.

Here I thought they would all use a standard urethane core.

You and me both. But after doing a lot of emergency repairs (kick-
ins) and replacements, I found that the insides range anywhere from
loose laid panels of styrofoam (sometimes glued to one side), random
squirts of urethane on the perimeter, all the way to solid urethane
cores.

I have even seen them where there is nothing in them except materials
glued in place to stiffen them up in the center and at the door lock
hole. (Hint: When you see an $89 metal entry door, think of this..)

Time for the marine finishes.

The material I am using is rated for marine use. It is a modified
urethane product, and you are right. It is perfect. It dries hard,
hard, hard. It is extremely abrasion resistant, and it looks like it
was baked on in a factory.

High build epoxy primer followed by some good L/P which can be applied
with a mohair roller and tipped with a good brush.

OK... now you overshot me. I don't know how to apply that stuff, and
I don't know anyone that would pay for it! My favorite is about $55 a
gallon (Coronado "Corotile" from their industrial line) and is rated
for "medium" industrial use for manufacturing and processing plant
application.

I can't imagine what your stuff would cost or how much it would cost
to apply it.

Just trying to make a living here, Lew.

;^)

Robert

wrote:

You and me both. But after doing a lot of emergency repairs (kick-
ins) and replacements, I found that the insides range anywhere from
loose laid panels of styrofoam (sometimes glued to one side), random
squirts of urethane on the perimeter, all the way to solid urethane
cores.

I have even seen them where there is nothing in them except
materials
glued in place to stiffen them up in the center and at the door lock
hole. (Hint: When you see an $89 metal entry door, think of
this..)

IMHO, a solid urethane core should be the minimum specfication.

After that, look at the skins.

The material I am using is rated for marine use. It is a modified
urethane product, and you are right. It is perfect. It dries hard,
hard, hard. It is extremely abrasion resistant, and it looks like
it
was baked on in a factory.

High build epoxy primer followed by some good L/P which can be
applied
with a mohair roller and tipped with a good brush.

OK... now you overshot me. I don't know how to apply that stuff,
and
I don't know anyone that would pay for it! My favorite is about $55
a
gallon (Coronado "Corotile" from their industrial line) and is rated
for "medium" industrial use for manufacturing and processing plant
application.

I can't imagine what your stuff would cost or how much it would cost
to apply it.

About the only thing more expensive than marine L/P are aviation
coatings.

Before crude oil prices went bonko, good marine L/P was about
$200/gal.

You can apply it with a mohair roller (1/4" nap) on a phenolic core.

Based on your description, stick with what you are usingG

Lew

On Jun 19, 11:25 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

About the only thing more expensive than marine L/P are aviation
coatings.

Before crude oil prices went bonko, good marine L/P was about
$200/gal.

*cough* *choke* *gasp*

Crap! I don't know a homeowner that would let me build in that kind
of finishing price. Couple with he fact that it probably has to be
colored at the plant and shipped, that would be an exciting day to get
the invoice on that stuff!!

Based on your description, stick with what you are usingG

Wow... no kidding. Like I said, just trying to make a living over
here...

Robert

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:11:01 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Not exactly a woodworking question, but who better
to ask.

I'm in the market for 5 new entry doors for my house.
Choises are steel, smooth fiberglass and wood grained
fiberglass. (I guess wood is an option, but I didn't
price any of those.)

Price roughly doubles as you move from steel to
smooth fiberglass, and doubles again when you move
to wood grained fiberglass.

So who's got an opinion about the material and if its
worth the price jump. Who makes a good door? a
bad door?

thanks

p.s. If you want to write up a quote, I need one 3-0(36"),
three 2-8(32"), and one 2-6(30") fire door, all with 5 1/4" jams,
no brick mold.

p.p.s. Any leads on a replacement for the 6-8 double
door for the back of my garage.


We have already replaced one steel door on the north side of the house
(water heater) with another steel door. On the south side of the
house, we replaced the steel entry door with a fiberglass door. Beinf
world-class procrastinators, we haven't yet applied any finish to the
fiberglass door. So far, it looks fine.

Ed

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

wrote:

*cough* *choke* *gasp*

Gives a whole meaning to that Texas phrase, "High Cotton"G.

Crap! I don't know a homeowner that would let me build in that kind
of finishing price.

Only if the H/O wanted the front door to color match their boatG.



Couple with he fact that it probably has to be
colored at the plant and shipped, that would be an exciting day to
get
the invoice on that stuff!!

Just curious, how does the door manufacturer finish a F/G door?

Gel coat, raw glass, paint primed, paint primed and finished?

Lew

On Jun 19, 8:41 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote:
Choises are steel, smooth fiberglass and wood grained
fiberglass. (I guess wood is an option, but I didn't
price any of those.)

Price roughly doubles as you move from steel to
smooth fiberglass, and doubles again when you move
to wood grained fiberglass.

So who's got an opinion about the material and if its
worth the price jump. Who makes a good door? a
bad door?

Without question, fiberglass is superior to steel, but I'm biased.

I built a fiberglass, not a steel boat.

Is it worth a 2:1 cost difference?

If you plan on staying in the house, yes.

Wood grained fiberglass requires a more complex mold, thus higher
cost.

Ask yourself a question:

If you chose steel, wouldn't it be smooth?

If so, why not smooth fiberglass?

Lew

All these wood-grained accouterments make me scratch my head. When you
side a house with clapboard, the clapboard, if wood, is smooth. If
vinyl, it's grained. Of course, that may have something to do with
how cheesy vinyl looks when smooth.

My fiberglass front door is grained, and "oak" colored. I'll paint it
someday soon, I guess, but with the oval glass, that's going to be a
PITA. I can pop the hardware before painting, but I'll be triple
dipped if I want to remove the glass.

On Jun 20, 1:23 am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote:
*cough* *choke* *gasp*

Gives a whole meaning to that Texas phrase, "High Cotton"G.

Crap! I don't know a homeowner that would let me build in that kind
of finishing price.

Only if the H/O wanted the front door to color match their boatG.

Couple with he fact that it probably has to be
colored at the plant and shipped, that would be an exciting day to
get
the invoice on that stuff!!

Just curious, how does the door manufacturer finish a F/G door?

Gel coat, raw glass, paint primed, paint primed and finished?

Lew

Depends on the door. Given the color and the way mine is flecking, I'd
say chocolate chips thinned with horse ****.

On Jun 20, 12:23 am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Just curious, how does the door manufacturer finish a F/G door?

Gel coat, raw glass, paint primed, paint primed and finished?

There are a few that sell them finished, but less and less. The
prefinished doors are too easy to damage in transit, and by the folks
that sell them.

So (like Thermatru, Jeld Wen which are a couple sold around here) they
sell finishing kits. The kits have a tiny (but good quality) can of
stain, and a water based poly with their respective names on it. The
stain is great, but the top coat isn't.

Currently, no one in town sells prefinished doors unless they are
solid colored. In that case, one of the doors I saw a few months ago
had a dark brown gel coat and from looking at the edges it was
probably a colored resin as well. The homeowner told me it came in a
bark brown, hunter green, and merlot.

The fiberglass doors I have finished have some kind of strange "paint
grip" type of finish on them. It isn't a good marine grade gel coat,
and it isn't UV resistant. It isn't smooth, but it isn't rough,
either. When it isn't finished, it will hold up for a year or so,
then the finished powders, and you are screwed. Whatever that stuff
is (mold release?) it isn't made to be left in the raw.

But if you clean it and finish it right away, it seems to do well, but
only with solvent based finishes. No matter what they do to the
surface, waterborne just doesn't stick as well. The stuff they send
with the door kit I usually toss. I don't know whose product it is,
so I won't use it.

As a sidebar, I have gone to many client's houses that have steel
doors installed, and they thought the priming was the protective
finish! Surprisingly, it does quite well, and a good cleaning and you
can start finishing if there is no rust. I have finished doors that
have probably been installed for 2 - 3 years with no adverse effects
to the top coat of paint.

Robert

wrote

As a sidebar, I have gone to many client's houses that have steel
doors installed, and they thought the priming was the protective
finish! Surprisingly, it does quite well, and a good cleaning and you
can start finishing if there is no rust. I have finished doors that
have probably been installed for 2 - 3 years with no adverse effects
to the top coat of paint.


One possible explanation for that is a universal lack of color sensibility.

In my house the missus is the color expert. I am the color idiot/savage,
according to the resident color expert.

Soooo......, to a lot of folks, a primer coast may look like a finish
color/coat. But even I think I can tell a primer coat from a finish one.

On Jun 20, 11:50 am, "Lee Michaels" wrote:

Soooo......, to a lot of folks, a primer coast may look like a finish
color/coat. But even I think I can tell a primer coat from a finish one.

I'll bet you can!

I got a chuckle out of that one. Most of the folks I run into that
don't paint are just HOPING that the flat finish on the door is
actually some kind of protective finish.

I think they all know better.

Robert

On Jun 20, 1:24 pm, Steve wrote:

I recently installed a new front metal-clad door for a client. The
warranty was void if it wasn't painted within (I seem to recall) three
months.

That would make a lot of good sense. From what I understand, that
primer is some kind of specially formulated super fast dry stuff, with
little or no resins in it for any kind durability.

Since you are "up the road" from me in San Antonio, do you mind me
asking what you use for finish on your metal doors?

I would love to hear what you are charging these days for a standard
entry installation with new trims, with the door and trims painted, if
you don't mind. I'll swap pricing with you if you want.

If you don't want others to see, I can be reached at


just take out "the trash" and the "can" at the end if you are
interested.

Thanks -

Robert

On 20 Jun 2008 18:24:38 GMT, Steve wrote:

As a sidebar, I have gone to many client's houses that have steel
doors installed, and they thought the priming was the protective
finish! Surprisingly, it does quite well, and a good cleaning and you
can start finishing if there is no rust. I have finished doors that
have probably been installed for 2 - 3 years with no adverse effects
to the top coat of paint.

I recently installed a new front metal-clad door for a client. The
warranty was void if it wasn't painted within (I seem to recall) three
months.

I worked for 2 different window and door companies a few years back,
and if the doors were painted any dark colour the warranty was also
void - as was it if a "storm door" was installed (heat build-up
issues)

The best finish was a sprayed catalyzed automotive enamel - and we had
a LOT of them done by a couple of automotive paint shops.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **