On Wed, 28 May 2008 19:59:35 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



The '76 460 Lincoln that's slowly rusting away in my driveway (sooner
or later I hope to restore it--it was my mother's car and has
sentimental value) usually did about the same.


Cool car!

I had a '78 2 door with a 460, in the early 1990's. Somebody gave it
to me.

It would pass anything but a gas station! I think it had a 38 gallon
tank...

It was a fun car to drive, but I would have killed for 12/16. Mine
got more like 10 overall. I was able to replace the Mark with a
brand new 1992 Mazda Protege for my wife's commute between Meriden and
East Hartford, CT. The Protege's monthly payment, fuel, taxes, and
full insurance coverage were less than the monthly gas bill on the
Lincoln. G

Every time I backed the Lincoln up for first time of the day, I got a
shower from the sunroof!

I always got a kick out of the fact that my Ex-Ryder '86 Ford E350
dualie 14' hi-cube, one of my PA trucks, was lighter than the Lincoln
when empty (5800 vs. 6000). The 10,000+ GVW hi-cube only had a
351...

The Lincoln was the only car I ever saw that could fit a 4x12 Marshall
half-stack and a guitar in the trunk!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Wed, 28 May 2008 19:57:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Well, the ones with the Harley stickers are forgivable--they need the
truck to haul the bike to and from the bar.


There you have it! G


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On May 28, 6:58*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote in messagenews:a5nr34lavk83djkdhhos3d5uc81f3ukka3@4ax .com...



On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:13:03 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

Foreigh I have owned, Isuzu, Acura, VW, Honda, and Toyota. *The VW's were
constantly in the shop.

I've *loved* my Toyotas, Subarus, and Hondas! * All made in the USA,
too.

I've heard some VW horrors, as well. *However, no VW could possibly
compete with my Jeeps for shop time... *G

I think I have my wife headed towards a MINI Clubman in '09 or '10 to
replace the '99 Wrangler.

My son has stepped in my shoes for car enthusiast. *He has read that the
MINI is one of the most economical to operate and maintain. *Pretty reliable
IIRC.

I had, at one time, 5 (five) Minis ( parts for 8) My one Cooper S had
5 different colour doors/boot/fenders etc. I loved that car. I spent a
part of my student loan on Mini-Lite wheels. I always carried a spare
fuel pump, fan belt and tool kit. I knew that thing inside-out. Great
fun blowing people away at traffic lights. I got to know the look of
Camaro grilles by seeing them in my rear-view mirrors. Eventually,
they'd catch me, because they had the cubes, but what a laugh.

Great mileage too.

r

B A R R Y wrote:


The Lincoln was the only car I ever saw that could fit a 4x12 Marshall
half-stack and a guitar in the trunk!

I had a '58 Cadillac that could carry 4x8 sheets of plywood in the
trunk. They stuck out a bit, but I did it many times. There was enough
room between the bumper and the radiator I could put a stool there to
sit on when I was working on the engine.

Man, those were the days.

On May 28, 7:17*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:58:30 -0500, "Leon"

wrote:

My son has stepped in my shoes for car enthusiast. *He has read that the
MINI is one of the most economical to operate and maintain. *Pretty reliable
IIRC.

The Cooper is too small for my wife's teaching "work wagon" she carts
back and forth every day, but the Clubman is about a foot longer, with
all the cool features of the Cooper intact.

Your son should see the Coopers whip around Lime Rock Park. *G

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYQYbH0Bdw&mode=related&search=

Check out the air he catches ~ 00:59, you'll hear it in the RPM's. *I
also like the Porsche waving him by... * G

I've had the *good fortune to do some Skip Barber class days @ LRP,
given as a gift, it's really fun!

Thems not 'real' Cooper S's. EG Fast and fun, no doubt, but
expensive FRAUDS!!!...LOL ( I paid $ 800.00 for a 1275 S engine with a
Weber on it)

"charlieb" wrote in message
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

Rather than blame US car makers, blame the people that insist they need
those big vehicles and buy them so they can go to the grocery store for a
loaf of bread. . Don't forget to add the Toyota V-8 5+ liter too. No one
forces us to buy gas guzzlers.

"Richard Evans" wrote in message
...

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

That engine was a real sleeper. I had a friend that had a Torino with the
CobraJet 428 ? 9?. Sounded pathetic, as I recall the AIR pump was the
loudest thing under the hood, but blew away 396 Malibu's.

"Leon" wrote:


"Richard Evans" wrote in message
.. .

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

That engine was a real sleeper. I had a friend that had a Torino with the
CobraJet 428 ? 9?. Sounded pathetic, as I recall the AIR pump was the
loudest thing under the hood, but blew away 396 Malibu's.

It was rated at 325 HP, but I read years later that it was
intentionally underrated to get it by the insurance companies. Actual
output was something over 400 HP. Mine was the only one I've ever
seen. I read on the Web that there were only something like 126 made.

Good set of pictures here.

http://www.streetrodshack.com/images...Cyclone_07.JPG

Mine was flame orange.

"Leon" wrote in message
And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40
cents per gallon. I guess if the American oil companies were not selling
gasoline to other countries and also buying gasoline from other countries
there would not be as many mark-ups.


Oil companies are only part of the equation though. Speculators are buying
and selling amongst themselves and driving up prices while making millions
at our expense. Same with de-regulated electricity.

Richard Evans wrote:

"Leon" wrote:


"Richard Evans" wrote in message
. ..

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

That engine was a real sleeper. I had a friend that had a Torino with the
CobraJet 428 ? 9?. Sounded pathetic, as I recall the AIR pump was the
loudest thing under the hood, but blew away 396 Malibu's.

It was rated at 325 HP, but I read years later that it was
intentionally underrated to get it by the insurance companies. Actual
output was something over 400 HP. Mine was the only one I've ever
seen. I read on the Web that there were only something like 126 made.

Good set of pictures here.

http://www.streetrodshack.com/images...Cyclone_07.JPG


Sorry, that's only one picture. The collection is he

http://www.streetrodshack.com/details_1969Cyclone.htm

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40
cents per gallon. I guess if the American oil companies were not selling
gasoline to other countries and also buying gasoline from other countries
there would not be as many mark-ups.


Oil companies are only part of the equation though. Speculators are
buying and selling amongst themselves and driving up prices while making
millions at our expense. Same with de-regulated electricity.

Exactly!

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"charlieb" wrote in message
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

Rather than blame US car makers, blame the people that insist they need
those big vehicles and buy them so they can go to the grocery store for a
loaf of bread. . Don't forget to add the Toyota V-8 5+ liter too. No one
forces us to buy gas guzzlers.

In defense of my 5.7 Toyota. ;~) I traded my 5.0 Chevrolet that got worse
gas mileage with 150 less hp. The V6 version of my Toyota got 2 mpg better
in town and no better on the highway. The V8 had a much bigger rebate than
the V6 did and will take about 100 fill ups before the V6 starts to be
cheaper to operate. I fill up about 17 times a year.

charlieb wrote in news:483DA674.7BF0
@accesscom.com:

Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.


What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4 acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it. I wonder if I can get
more grass mowed per gallon by putting the next size larger deck on it...
Probably not.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On May 29, 12:01*am, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
charlieb wrote in news:483DA674.7BF0
@accesscom.com:



Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. *Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. *Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
* * * * *NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. *Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. *I've got around 4 acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it. *I wonder if I can get
more grass mowed per gallon by putting the next size larger deck on it...
Probably not.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

...and *I* have to learn NOT TO PUT FERTILISER on my lawn!!!!!!!!
WTF is next? A sprinkler system?? Would I be THAT stupid?

"Puckdropper" wrote:


What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4
acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it.

Goats.

They will even keep the shrubs under control.

Better than sheep with less residue.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:5bq%j.9428$nx6.4143@trnddc03...

"Puckdropper" wrote:
What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4
acres to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it.

Goats.
They will even keep the shrubs under control.
Better than sheep with less residue.

Lew

Residue? Do you mean manure?... AKA- fertilizer? Sheep manure is the best
fertilize on earth (tied with rabbit poop) but it makes grass grow very
fast.

Goats taste good on a barbeque, but they prefer rough forage (the shrubs,
trees, vines, flowers, etc)... not very good for mowing grass.
Buy short-legged cows to keep grass in check. Shetland ponies are fairly
good grass eaters too (and they will pull a home shop built wooden hay
wagon, a traction driven sickel bar mower, hay rake, etc.)... but not good
to eat, unless you like tough dog food.

Axel

On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:08:19 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"charlieb" wrote in message
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

Rather than blame US car makers, blame the people that insist they need
those big vehicles and buy them so they can go to the grocery store for a
loaf of bread. . Don't forget to add the Toyota V-8 5+ liter too. No one
forces us to buy gas guzzlers.



I have a Tundra V8. It took $78 to fill up yesterday, but I plan on
making that last a few weeks. Actually I need a truck to move
furniture, wood, landscaping material, etc but have cut out
restaurants, vacation and visits to help offset the cost. We want big
vehicles, but 40 mpg too! I am seeing more bicycles lately, which is
a very good thing for keeping in shape.

On 29 May 2008 04:01:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

charlieb wrote in news:483DA674.7BF0
:

Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.


What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4 acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it. I wonder if I can get
more grass mowed per gallon by putting the next size larger deck on it...
Probably not.

Puckdropper

I borrowed a friend's bigger chainsaw when I was putting in fence
posts. About 600 fence posts that I was putting points on before
hammering them in to the ground. My little Craftsman/Poulan with a 16"
blade and a small engine got a lot better hours per gallon than his
bigger saw. I keep wanting to replace the saw but it is so cheap to
run and it refuses to break. Stupid 25 year old saw.

I bought a 5' used Befco finish mower for behind my John Deere 870. It
mowed fast but made an awful racket. I took it apart to figure where
all the noise was from. Worn bearings cracked deck, loose sheet metal
and some broken welds on the blade shield sheet metal. It may take me
weeks to finish welding, patching and replacing bearings but it should
be quieter when I am done. I guess since I paid a third of new and I
do not pay myself any wages for hours of cleanup and welding time,
parts at $200 I am ahead? I really undervalue my free time labor as
rebuilding a mower deck is really not fun. It might be more fun if I
had bought a 60 gallon air compressor instead of 20 gallon compressor.
Sandblasting when you have 2 minutes of good air is pretty slow.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this
is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40
cents per gallon. I guess if the American oil companies were not
selling
gasoline to other countries and also buying gasoline from other
countries
there would not be as many mark-ups.


Oil companies are only part of the equation though. Speculators are
buying
and selling amongst themselves and driving up prices while making millions
at our expense.

It's a result of many factors, but "supply and demand" is indeed part of the
current scene just from the fact that global production levels have dropped
in the last few years.

That said, there is a _lot_ of crude sitting in tankers offshore in
"storage" (1980's deja vu?), so much so that tankers are in short supply as
storage containers, and Iran, whose oil is not the best refinery product, is
the leader of this pack. This, in my mind, _is_ the real reason why Bush was
blown off by the Saudi's recently, but not something you will see in the
media.

What is also notable is that you don't see the executives of big oil
companies scrambling to drill at these prices, which is strange as hell to
someone who has BTDT, albeit in a small domestic sense.

Whatever it is we'll sooner or later see. Because, if there is indeed a
speculative "index trader crude bubble, and it bursts as all bubbles are
wont and the price of crude _plummets_, that will be prima facie evidence of
the current record prices NOT being driven by "supply and demand".

In that event, it would be high time to inject some prudent, and possibly
global, regulatory restraints on the practice of commodities index trading
.... providing you can find an un-buyable politician with the balls/will to
lead the charge, if there is such a beast.

IMO, and in any event, and at the very least, some 'transparency' needs to
be regulated into the current practice of 'commodities index trading'.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Charlie,

Arizona is right behind you.

I remember the first time I paid $2.00 a gallon was in Beverly Hills, CA. .
Jill and I were looking for a museum and got lost. We stopped at a little
gas station and while I was pumping my gas a Bentley pulled up and a very
attractive gal got out to fill her tank. She was wearing a see thru gauze
top with no bra. I'm lucky I didn't spill my gas all over. I think I did
drool on my shirt. Jill just sat in the car laughing at me.

Take care,

cm


"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:59:20 -0400, Richard Evans
wrote:


Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

I miss my 62 Vette AND those gas prices..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On May 28, 4:15 pm, Tim S wrote:
Upscale coughed up some electrons that declared:



"Greg Neill" wrote in message
Bah! That's nothing. Here in Montreal the price is
at $1.42/L (142.4 cents) per liter. That translates
to $5.29 per US gal (ignoring the currently small
currency exchange rate).

Bah! That's nothing. Gasoline in the UK has reached $10.65 (US) a gallon
and that's certainly not the most expensive in Europe. Consider yourself
lucky.

I make it US$8.64 based on 115.2 pence/litre in mid Kent, SE England.
Remember US gallon != Imperial gallon[1]

Now, diesel - that is expensive at 127 pence/litre - I nearly had a heart
attack today filling up for the first time in 2 months. Good job my vehicle
gets just over 50mpg...

Still, original point still stands... I remember my old man whining when
petrol topped one pound per imperial gallon... Feck, that was long time
ago...

Cheers

Tim

[1] I got half way to the bottom of this anomoly the other days. Seems our
respective fluid-ounces are more or less the same (within a few percent),
but USians have 16 fl oz/pint and we, for some reason have 20. Everything
else scales from there. If anyone knows why, I'd be interested to hear it.

Back when I was a little younger, my old man flipped when he got five
gallons (US) and the attendant asked for $1.05. The week before, five
gallons had been a buck, and you still got the same service--oil
check, belt check, windshield and rear window washed. We're in one of
the cheapest areas in the U.S., and this morning, I paid $3.78.9, down
11 cents since the driving holiday. It's astonishing how that happens.
There's some excuse for a run-up before EVERY major driving holiday in
this country. Of course, it goes up a quarter and comes down a dime,
but, hey, that's bidness fer you. Someone has to get screwed, while
being told he's what's wrong with the world. AKA, Joe Consumer.

"Charlie Self" wrote:
Of course, it goes up a quarter and comes down a dime,
but, hey, that's bidness fer you. Someone has to get screwed, while
being told he's what's wrong with the world. AKA, Joe Consumer.

The power of the purse is still supreme.

Lew

On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:56:29 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:



Thems not 'real' Cooper S's. EG Fast and fun, no doubt, but
expensive FRAUDS!!!...LOL ( I paid $ 800.00 for a 1275 S engine with a
Weber on it)


They run THOSE on Vintage Weekend in September!


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On 29 May 2008 04:01:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:



What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4 acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it.

Goats!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

"Leon" wrote:


And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40 cents
per gallon.

The government subsidizes gasoline in Saudi. Without that, it would be the same
as anywhere else. -- Doug

On Thu, 29 May 2008 04:21:21 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Puckdropper" wrote:


What I want is a more fuel efficient LAWN MOWER. I've got around 4
acres
to mow, and it takes 4-5 gallons a week to do it.

Goats.

They will even keep the shrubs under control.

Better than sheep with less residue.

Lew



Good idea Lew. Can't wait to see the look on the faces of the board
members of the Homeowners Assocication when I tether that goat in my
front yard. That'll give em something to fret about.

Frank

On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:59:20 -0400, Richard Evans
wrote:

"Leon" wrote:


"Richard Evans" wrote in message
. ..
"J. Clarke" wrote:


Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.


Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same thing.
For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it wasn't
all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why) and big,
high performace cars were in demand again.

The original gas lines were because of the price freeze on every thing that
Nixon imposed. Oil companies said they could not make a profit and quit
buying expensive foreign oil. That caused a shortage. Once the price
freeze was lifted, so were the shortages and lines. Gas hogs and high
performance vehicles got less than 10 mpg back then,

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.


Sold my '73 Chevy Monte Carlo with the 454 for the same reason. 10/14
was the best it would do if babied. Sure did like that car though.

Frank

Douglas Johnson wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40 cents
per gallon.


The government subsidizes gasoline in Saudi. Without that, it would be the same
as anywhere else. -- Doug

The situation is similar in Venezuela, where gas is subsidized heavily.
Ostensibly it's to help out the poorer people, but most of them don't
own a vehicle and it's mostly the middle and upper classes that benefit.

Chris

Leon wrote:


Actually the larger and more expensice the vehicle the more profit and
percent of profit. Most of the profit goes to the workers and their
benefits, thank you Labor Unions.

And here all this time I thought "profit" was what was left after
expenses were deducted.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Frank Boettcher" wrote:


Good idea Lew. Can't wait to see the look on the faces of the board
members of the Homeowners Assocication when I tether that goat in my
front yard. That'll give em something to fret about.


The Condo Nazis will have a s**t fit.

Worth the price of admission just to see their reactions.

Lew

On Wed, 28 May 2008 18:54:49 -0400, B A R R Y wrote:

On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:34:34 GMT, PCPaul wrote:

The dear gubmint are still planning to put 2p/litre on in the Autumn to
'discourage unnecessary use' though(!)


At least you get BBC without having to buy an expensive package...

Not quite. *Everybody* with a TV in the UK has to pay the 'TV Licence'
for £130ish ($250) a year, even if they never watch the BBC. That's what
pays for the BBC...

"Nova" wrote in message
news:bmE%j.15496$2C.12861@trndny08...
Leon wrote:


Actually the larger and more expensice the vehicle the more profit and
percent of profit. Most of the profit goes to the workers and their
benefits, thank you Labor Unions.

And here all this time I thought "profit" was what was left after expenses
were deducted.


Sorry Jack, ;~)

The profit you are talking about is "Net" Profit. I should have clarified
that I was talking "Gross" Profit on each vehicle.
Typically the higher the GP margin the more you have to pay the wages and
benefits. After all those expenses and operating costs are deducted you end
up with the Net profit.

Leon wrote:
"Nova" wrote in message
news:bmE%j.15496$2C.12861@trndny08...

Leon wrote:


Actually the larger and more expensice the vehicle the more profit and
percent of profit. Most of the profit goes to the workers and their
benefits, thank you Labor Unions.

And here all this time I thought "profit" was what was left after expenses
were deducted.



Sorry Jack, ;~)

The profit you are talking about is "Net" Profit. I should have clarified
that I was talking "Gross" Profit on each vehicle.
Typically the higher the GP margin the more you have to pay the wages and
benefits. After all those expenses and operating costs are deducted you end
up with the Net profit.



"Gross profit is profit before Selling, General and Administrative costs
(SG&A), like depreciation and interest; it is the Sales less direct Cost
of Goods (or services) Sold (COGS),

Net profit after tax is after the deduction of either corporate tax (for
a company) or income tax (for an individual)."

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit


Wages fall into the COGS category.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Nova" wrote in message
newsrG%j.3761$3f1.2480@trndny02...


Sorry Jack, ;~)

The profit you are talking about is "Net" Profit. I should have
clarified that I was talking "Gross" Profit on each vehicle.
Typically the higher the GP margin the more you have to pay the wages and
benefits. After all those expenses and operating costs are deducted you
end up with the Net profit.

"Gross profit is profit before Selling, General and Administrative costs
(SG&A), like depreciation and interest; it is the Sales less direct Cost
of Goods (or services) Sold (COGS),

No, I'm sorry to say, Gross profit is profit of the pieces sold less the
cost of the good. If you sell a part for $5 and your cost of the part is $4
your Gross Profit is $1. Untill you sell you have no profit. You may have
an increased value in inventory but that is added in later to increase the
Net Profit.

Net profit after tax is after the deduction of either corporate tax (for a
company) or income tax (for an individual)."




Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit

From you source above,

In accounting, Gross profit or sales profit or gross operating profit is the
difference between revenue and the cost of making a product or providing a
service, before deducting overheads, payroll, taxation, and interest
payments.

Net sales are calculated:

Net sales = Sales - Sales returns and allowances
Gross profit is found by deducting the cost of goods sold:

Gross profit = Net sales - Cost of goods sold
Gross profit should not be confused with net income:

Net income = Gross profit - Total operating expenses


In business and finance accounting, net profit is equal to the gross profit
minus overheads minus interest payable plus/minus one off items for a given
time period (usualy: accounting period).

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:45:22 GMT, PCPaul wrote:

Not quite. *Everybody* with a TV in the UK has to pay the 'TV Licence'
for £130ish ($250) a year, even if they never watch the BBC. That's what
pays for the BBC...


I didn't know that...

I'm always impressed by the production value of the "Top Gear" film
segments. Now I know where the budget comes from.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:58:29 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

The Condo Nazis will have a s**t fit.

Worth the price of admission just to see their reactions.

Lew


How's David E's quote go?

"Every neighborhood has one..."

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Leon wrote:



Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit


From you source above,

In accounting, Gross profit or sales profit or gross operating profit is the
difference between revenue and the cost of making a product or providing a
service, before deducting overheads, payroll, taxation, and interest
payments.

Net sales are calculated:

Net sales = Sales - Sales returns and allowances
Gross profit is found by deducting the cost of goods sold:

Gross profit = Net sales - Cost of goods sold
Gross profit should not be confused with net income:

Net income = Gross profit - Total operating expenses


In business and finance accounting, net profit is equal to the gross profit
minus overheads minus interest payable plus/minus one off items for a given
time period (usualy: accounting period).

I think you're confusing gross receipts with gross profits.

From the IRS web site:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/ch07.html


"7. Figuring Gross Profit

Table of Contents

* Introduction
* Items To Check
* Testing Gross Profit Accuracy
o Example.
* Additions to Gross Profit

Introduction

After you have figured the gross receipts from your business (chapter 5)
and the cost of goods sold (chapter 6), you are ready to figure your
gross profit. You must determine gross profit before you can deduct any
business expenses. These expenses are discussed in chapter 8.

If you are filing Schedule C-EZ, your gross profit is your gross
receipts plus certain other amounts, explained later under Additions to
Gross Profit.

Businesses that sell products. If you are filing Schedule C, figure
your gross profit by first figuring your net receipts. Figure net
receipts on Schedule C by subtracting any returns and allowances (line
2) from gross receipts (line 1). Returns and allowances include cash or
credit refunds you make to customers, rebates, and other allowances off
the actual sales price.

Next, subtract the cost of goods sold (line 4) from net receipts (line
3). The result is the gross profit from your business."



Note the cost of good sold is subtracted from the net receipts to
determine the gross profit.

And
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/ch06.html



"Figuring Cost of Goods Sold on Schedule C Lines 35 Through 42

Figure your cost of goods sold by filling out lines 35 through 42 of
Schedule C. These lines are reproduced below and are explained in the
discussion that follows.

35 Inventory at beginning of year. If different from last year's
closing inventory, attach explanation
36 Purchases less cost of items withdrawn for personal use
37 Cost of labor. Do not include any amounts paid to yourself
38 Materials and supplies
39 Other costs
40 Add lines 35 through 39
41 Inventory at end of year
42 Cost of goods sold. Subtract line 41 from line 40.
Enter the result here and on page 1, line 4"

Note line #37

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Nova" wrote in message
news:r6I%j.4146$QW.3022@trndny04...


I think you're confusing gross receipts with gross profits.

No, I'm not confused.


As far as you comments below, I have been filing quarterly tax returns and
filing Schedule C and Schedule SE anually since 1995. I know how all that
works.

Jack, with all due respect I think we both know what we are talking about,
it's just that some where along the line one or both of us have left out a
comment that may have deriled one or both of us. I have been dealing with
running businesses since 1976.



From the IRS web site:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/ch07.html


"7. Figuring Gross Profit

Table of Contents

* Introduction
* Items To Check
* Testing Gross Profit Accuracy
o Example.
* Additions to Gross Profit

Introduction

After you have figured the gross receipts from your business (chapter 5)
and the cost of goods sold (chapter 6), you are ready to figure your gross
profit. You must determine gross profit before you can deduct any business
expenses. These expenses are discussed in chapter 8.

If you are filing Schedule C-EZ, your gross profit is your gross receipts
plus certain other amounts, explained later under Additions to Gross
Profit.

Businesses that sell products. If you are filing Schedule C, figure your
gross profit by first figuring your net receipts. Figure net receipts on
Schedule C by subtracting any returns and allowances (line 2) from gross
receipts (line 1). Returns and allowances include cash or credit refunds
you make to customers, rebates, and other allowances off the actual sales
price.

Next, subtract the cost of goods sold (line 4) from net receipts (line
3). The result is the gross profit from your business."



Note the cost of good sold is subtracted from the net receipts to
determine the gross profit.

And
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/ch06.html



"Figuring Cost of Goods Sold on Schedule C Lines 35 Through 42

Figure your cost of goods sold by filling out lines 35 through 42 of
Schedule C. These lines are reproduced below and are explained in the
discussion that follows.

35 Inventory at beginning of year. If different from last year's closing
inventory, attach explanation 36 Purchases less cost of items withdrawn
for personal use 37 Cost of labor. Do not include any amounts paid to
yourself 38 Materials and supplies 39 Other costs 40 Add lines 35 through
39 41 Inventory at end of year 42 Cost of goods sold. Subtract line 41
from line 40.
Enter the result here and on page 1, line 4"

Note line #37

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Thu, 29 May 2008 20:37:33 -0400, B A R R Y wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:45:22 GMT, PCPaul wrote:

Not quite. *Everybody* with a TV in the UK has to pay the 'TV Licence'
for £130ish ($250) a year, even if they never watch the BBC. That's what
pays for the BBC...


I didn't know that...

I'm always impressed by the production value of the "Top Gear" film
segments. Now I know where the budget comes from.

Yeah. Me. 8^(