Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:37:43 -0700, charlieb
wrote:

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day.

As Stacey David says, "...but it's a GIRL's car..."



--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"charlieb" wrote in message ...
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Bah! That's nothing. Here in Montreal the price is
at $1.42/L (142.4 cents) per liter. That translates
to $5.29 per US gal (ignoring the currently small
currency exchange rate).

On Wed, 28 May 2008 15:33:58 -0400, Greg Neill wrote:

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that, but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?). by
Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Bah! That's nothing. Here in Montreal the price is at $1.42/L (142.4
cents) per liter. That translates to $5.29 per US gal (ignoring the
currently small currency exchange rate).

Ha. If you want a gassing contest ours is currently £1.25/litre (124.9p/
l) which is US$9.37/US gallon.

Come back when your gas has *doubled* in price and then you can
complain :-(

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?
charlie b


This "ray of hope" I do not understand.....Increased CAFE standards simply
mean smaller and/or lighter vehicles...... There is no particular or secret
high mileage trick out there just waiting for a Gov. CAFE mandate. Instead
what we will get are fewer choices in the market place and most likely price
incentives or penalties (as though gas prices aren't incentive enough) to
force the market place where it may not wish to go. Vehicles will be less
able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large
and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in.
Certain things may require a forced mandate, as when not doing them provides
a competitive advantage for those who don't but better vehicle efficiency
can stand on its own merit without Gov. fiat or subsidy. Rod

Upscale coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Greg Neill" wrote in message
Bah! That's nothing. Here in Montreal the price is
at $1.42/L (142.4 cents) per liter. That translates
to $5.29 per US gal (ignoring the currently small
currency exchange rate).

Bah! That's nothing. Gasoline in the UK has reached $10.65 (US) a gallon
and that's certainly not the most expensive in Europe. Consider yourself
lucky.


I make it US$8.64 based on 115.2 pence/litre in mid Kent, SE England.
Remember US gallon != Imperial gallon[1]

Now, diesel - that is expensive at 127 pence/litre - I nearly had a heart
attack today filling up for the first time in 2 months. Good job my vehicle
gets just over 50mpg...

Still, original point still stands... I remember my old man whining when
petrol topped one pound per imperial gallon... Feck, that was long time
ago...

Cheers

Tim

[1] I got half way to the bottom of this anomoly the other days. Seems our
respective fluid-ounces are more or less the same (within a few percent),
but USians have 16 fl oz/pint and we, for some reason have 20. Everything
else scales from there. If anyone knows why, I'd be interested to hear it.

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:


"charlieb" wrote in message
...
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?
charlie b


This "ray of hope" I do not understand.....Increased CAFE standards
simply mean smaller and/or lighter vehicles...... There is no particular
or secret high mileage trick out there just waiting for a Gov. CAFE
mandate. Instead what we will get are fewer choices in the market place
and most likely price incentives or penalties (as though gas prices aren't
incentive enough) to force the market place where it may not wish to go.
Vehicles will be less able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles
that the tall, the large and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can
not sit comfortably in. Certain things may require a forced mandate, as
when not doing them provides a competitive advantage for those who don't
but better vehicle efficiency
can stand on its own merit without Gov. fiat or subsidy. Rod

$1.293/litre here in the Toronto Canada area, the dollar is close enough to
par to ignore, that works out to approx $4.88/US gallon. I am 6'5" tall
and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I can't
get comfortable in most of the little **** boxes on the roads these days.
I *need* a larger car, only driving a Grand Prix with a 3.8l 6 banger these
days, but I at least am comfortable driving it, and the performance for
highway driving isn't bad either.

--
Froz...

PCPaul wrote in news:XIi%j.10847$DZ6.7266
@text.news.virginmedia.com:


Come back when your gas has *doubled* in price and then you can
complain :-(


It *has* doubled in price. Two years ago, it was around $2.00 a gallon.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

charlieb wrote:
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.

Auto manufacturers do not hold guns to peoples' heads and force them
to buy specific models you know.

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

And if everything you need to carry fits into one then Miatas are
nice.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Greg Neill" wrote in message
Bah! That's nothing. Here in Montreal the price is
at $1.42/L (142.4 cents) per liter. That translates
to $5.29 per US gal (ignoring the currently small
currency exchange rate).

Bah! That's nothing. Gasoline in the UK has reached $10.65 (US) a gallon and
that's certainly not the most expensive in Europe. Consider yourself lucky.

"FrozenNorth" wrote:

I am 6'5" tall
and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I
can't
get comfortable in most of the little **** boxes on the roads these
days.

GM goes out of it's way to build IMHO, very difficult vehicles to
enter or exit.

FoMoCo seems to be getting the message, based on the last Ford I
rented.

The Europeans, especially Volkswagen build comfortable small vehicles.

Owned several for just that reason.

Today, I drive a 4 cyl, 5 spd stick "Tonka Toy".

Don't know why I waited so long to get one.

BTW, 6'-0" but long torso, and 250 lbs presents more than a few
challenges to Detroit.

IMHO, the last Detroit vehicle worth a hoot was my 65 Galaxy 500, 4 dr
hard top.

It's been all down hill since.

Lew

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
"charlieb" wrote in message
...
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?
charlie b


This "ray of hope" I do not understand.....Increased CAFE standards
simply mean smaller and/or lighter vehicles...... There is no
particular or secret high mileage trick out there just waiting for a
Gov. CAFE mandate. Instead what we will get are fewer choices in the
market place and most likely price incentives or penalties (as
though
gas prices aren't incentive enough) to force the market place where
it may not wish to go. Vehicles will be less able for many tasks and
there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large and the elderly
and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in. Certain
things may require a forced mandate, as when not doing them provides
a competitive advantage for those who don't but better vehicle
efficiency can stand on its own merit without Gov. fiat or subsidy.

CAFE has been the law since 1975. All that is changing is the mileage
target, which was frozen at 27.5 MPG in 1990, up from 18 mpg in 1978.

Light trucks, which includes most SUVs, also have a CAFE standard but
it is different from the one for passenger cars.

If you are opposed to CAFE, well, that ship has sailed.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tim S wrote in
:



Tim

[1] I got half way to the bottom of this anomoly the other days. Seems
our respective fluid-ounces are more or less the same (within a few
percent), but USians have 16 fl oz/pint and we, for some reason have
20. Everything else scales from there. If anyone knows why, I'd be
interested to hear it.


Because back just prior to the upstarts going thier own way, George III
parliment had to increase taxes to support the wars with France, holland
and Prussia. They chose to increase tax on beer - but because that would go
down too well they then decided to reduce the SIZE of the glass and so US
pints are 16oz and UK remained the imperial 20oz. Quarts, gallons and so on
are 20% smaller in the US..

After living here of 15 yrs it still feels strange to pick up a small pint.

Jerry coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote in
:



Tim

[1] I got half way to the bottom of this anomoly the other days. Seems
our respective fluid-ounces are more or less the same (within a few
percent), but USians have 16 fl oz/pint and we, for some reason have
20. Everything else scales from there. If anyone knows why, I'd be
interested to hear it.


Because back just prior to the upstarts going thier own way, George III
parliment had to increase taxes to support the wars with France, holland
and Prussia. They chose to increase tax on beer - but because that would
go down too well they then decided to reduce the SIZE of the glass and so
US pints are 16oz and UK remained the imperial 20oz. Quarts, gallons and
so on are 20% smaller in the US..

After living here of 15 yrs it still feels strange to pick up a small
pint.

Fascinating, ta.

Just goes to show that our (British) current government doesn't own the
monopoly on devious tax fiddling scams.

:-O

"J. Clarke" wrote:


Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.


Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same thing.
For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it wasn't
all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why) and big,
high performace cars were in demand again.

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

And what cracks me up is the oil companies are trying to say that this is
the world market price. SA in the middle east is paying less than 40 cents
per gallon. I guess if the American oil companies were not selling gasoline
to other countries and also buying gasoline from other countries there would
not be as many mark-ups.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:2Bj%j.3589$fk.2478@trnddc06...

"FrozenNorth" wrote:

I am 6'5" tall
and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I can't
get comfortable in most of the little **** boxes on the roads these days.

GM goes out of it's way to build IMHO, very difficult vehicles to enter or
exit.

FoMoCo seems to be getting the message, based on the last Ford I rented.

The Europeans, especially Volkswagen build comfortable small vehicles.

Comfortable yes, expensive and undependable, absolutely. At least that was
the way it was for our purchased new 1999 and 2000 VW's with less than 17K
and 40K respectively.

Owned several for just that reason.

Today, I drive a 4 cyl, 5 spd stick "Tonka Toy".

Foreigh I have owned, Isuzu, Acura, VW, Honda, and Toyota. The VW's were
constantly in the shop.


Don't know why I waited so long to get one.

BTW, 6'-0" but long torso, and 250 lbs presents more than a few challenges
to Detroit.

IMHO, the last Detroit vehicle worth a hoot was my 65 Galaxy 500, 4 dr
hard top.

IMHO the 70 & 71's were the last decent years.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 20:22:20 GMT, FrozenNorth
wrote:

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

I am 6'5" tall
and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I can't
get comfortable in most of the little **** boxes on the roads these days.
I *need* a larger car, only driving a Grand Prix with a 3.8l 6 banger these
days, but I at least am comfortable driving it, and the performance for
highway driving isn't bad either.

A mid-60's VW bug would be fine - you're one of the few who could
reach the pedals with the seat all the way back ;-)

John

Leon wrote:


"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:2Bj%j.3589$fk.2478@trnddc06...


BTW, 6'-0" but long torso, and 250 lbs presents more than a few
challenges to Detroit.

IMHO, the last Detroit vehicle worth a hoot was my 65 Galaxy 500, 4 dr
hard top.

IMHO the 70 & 71's were the last decent years.

I was 10 in 1970, so that generation of cars was getting a bit old before I
was driving age.

--
Froz...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
charlieb wrote:
Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.

Auto manufacturers do not hold guns to peoples' heads and force them
to buy specific models you know.

Actually the larger and more expensice the vehicle the more profit and
percent of profit. Most of the profit goes to the workers and their
benefits, thank you Labor Unions. If Detroit had been only building small
vehicles for the last 30 years Detroit would have been a ghost town long
ago.


charlie b

who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.

And if everything you need to carry fits into one then Miatas are
nice.

I currently drive an 07 Tundra and it gets almost 15 MPG in town, almost 20
on the highway. My wife drives an 04 Accord that gets 22 in town and 30 on
the highway. I'll give up the 5 and 10 mpg respectively for the comfort,
room, and ability to haul most anything that we want.

John wrote:

On Wed, 28 May 2008 20:22:20 GMT, FrozenNorth
wrote:

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:

I am 6'5" tall
and weigh about 215lbs, not a huge guy, but definitely tall, and I can't
get comfortable in most of the little **** boxes on the roads these days.
I *need* a larger car, only driving a Grand Prix with a 3.8l 6 banger
these days, but I at least am comfortable driving it, and the performance
for highway driving isn't bad either.

A mid-60's VW bug would be fine - you're one of the few who could
reach the pedals with the seat all the way back ;-)

A buddy had one, but that was a pain in winter, in Canada, having to scrape
the inside of the windshield while driving.

--
Froz...

"Richard Evans" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote:


Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.


Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same thing.
For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it wasn't
all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why) and big,
high performace cars were in demand again.

The original gas lines were because of the price freeze on every thing that
Nixon imposed. Oil companies said they could not make a profit and quit
buying expensive foreign oil. That caused a shortage. Once the price
freeze was lifted, so were the shortages and lines. Gas hogs and high
performance vehicles got less than 10 mpg back then, and get about 50%
better now.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:59:35 -0400, Richard Evans
wrote:

Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same thing.
For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it wasn't
all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why) and big,
high performace cars were in demand again.


The Saudis started selling us oil again, that's why prices dropped.

There isn't a singular reason right now why oil is climbing in the US,
so I'd think twice about jumping on that "great" deal on a gas
guzzler. Nowadays, we beg for oil on a world market with a weak
dollar, in full competition with other buyers, like India and China,
we are now in the genuine world market. India and China weren't there
in '72.

On the other hand, for those folks who really genuinely NEED a
powerful tow or hauling vehicle... Personally, I would have to
incorporate the lack of resale value into any gas guzzler purchased
today when analyzing a prospective purchase, but there are some real
"must sells" out there!

I bicycle to work ~ 150 days a year, and I'm amazed at the difference
in driving "spirit" I see this spring vs. last fall during my commute
displayed by "style trucks". Folks are driving with an egg under the
accelerator foot! Last year, these folks never missed an opportunity
to smoke it from traffic light to traffic light. I'm enjoying the
lack of noise. G

By "style truck", I'm describing the loaded to the gills, 4x4 w/ 20"
rims and low profile tires, leather quad-cab, short-bed, 3/4+ ton, and
Hemi trucks, usually with Harley stickers and fiberglass tonneau
covers with spoilers, used as commuter vehicles, as opposed to the
typical trades-rig with a long bed, racks and boxes and dirt on it.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Wed, 28 May 2008 13:05:50 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"
wrote:


"charlieb" wrote in message
...
A ray of hope - CAFE standards were FINALLY increased - after
only 30 years and "pre-owned" Hummers, Huged Sport Utes and
BIG Tire Monster Trucks are taking over what was formerly
known as Used Car Lots space - in abundance.

Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?
charlie b


This "ray of hope" I do not understand.....Increased CAFE standards simply
mean smaller and/or lighter vehicles...... There is no particular or secret
high mileage trick out there just waiting for a Gov. CAFE mandate. Instead
what we will get are fewer choices in the market place and most likely price
incentives or penalties (as though gas prices aren't incentive enough) to
force the market place where it may not wish to go. Vehicles will be less
able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large
and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in.
Certain things may require a forced mandate, as when not doing them provides
a competitive advantage for those who don't but better vehicle efficiency
can stand on its own merit without Gov. fiat or subsidy. Rod


My new truck is much easier on my herniated disk than my wife's Camry
- and the grab handles are better located. The mileage isn't
record-breaking at 21 city, 24+ highway with an automatic, but not bad
for a vehicle that can carry a 1300lb payload or pull a 3500lb
trailer.

Gas prices in the suburbs on the west side of Atlanta are about
$3.88/gallon today, with downtown Atlanta prices about $4.09/gallon.

For possible alternative near-future vehicles, look at some of the
contenders for the Automotive X-Prize, a $10 million competition for
fuel efficient vehicles:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...html?series=19

John

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:13:03 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:



Foreigh I have owned, Isuzu, Acura, VW, Honda, and Toyota. The VW's were
constantly in the shop.


I've *loved* my Toyotas, Subarus, and Hondas! All made in the USA,
too.

I've heard some VW horrors, as well. However, no VW could possibly
compete with my Jeeps for shop time... G

I think I have my wife headed towards a MINI Clubman in '09 or '10 to
replace the '99 Wrangler.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:22:36 GMT, FrozenNorth
wrote:


A buddy had one, but that was a pain in winter, in Canada, having to scrape
the inside of the windshield while driving.

As much as I liked mine, that was also a pain in Connecticut. I can
only imagine that car in Canada! G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Wed, 28 May 2008 20:23:58 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

PCPaul wrote in news:XIi%j.10847$DZ6.7266
@text.news.virginmedia.com:


Come back when your gas has *doubled* in price and then you can
complain :-(


It *has* doubled in price. Two years ago, it was around $2.00 a gallon.

Not quite that quickly here, but that's only because the tax (and the tax
on the tax) hasn't gone up as quickly as the underlying oil costs..

The dear gubmint are still planning to put 2p/litre on in the Autumn to
'discourage unnecessary use' though(!)

On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:37:43 -0700, charlieb wrote:

Granted this is California, and the San Francisco Bay Area at that,
but
earlier last week "regular" was $3.999 (who has a $0.009 coin?).
by Thursday it was $4.039. Six days later (today) it's $4.249.

Once the $4 /gallon threshold was crossed the dam weakened
and now is collapsing - and we're still in May. Can't wait to see
what The Summer Driving Season is gonna do to prices.

I feel your pain, Charlie...
Though we're lucky enough to live in Mexico and complain about unleaded going up
to $2.30 a Gal, we all make trips to the States..
My neighbor just got back from Fresno, the land of $5.50 a gal diesel.. He's
been paying $2.10 here..

We have to go to California on the July 4th weekend for our daughter's wedding
and expect the fuel cost to be more than the room charge for 2 nights...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Wed, 28 May 2008 22:34:34 GMT, PCPaul wrote:

The dear gubmint are still planning to put 2p/litre on in the Autumn to
'discourage unnecessary use' though(!)


At least you get BBC without having to buy an expensive package...

I hate TV, but absolutely *love* "Top Gear", with Clarkson, May, and
Hamster!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:13:03 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:



Foreigh I have owned, Isuzu, Acura, VW, Honda, and Toyota. The VW's were
constantly in the shop.


I've *loved* my Toyotas, Subarus, and Hondas! All made in the USA,
too.

I've heard some VW horrors, as well. However, no VW could possibly
compete with my Jeeps for shop time... G

I think I have my wife headed towards a MINI Clubman in '09 or '10 to
replace the '99 Wrangler.


My son has stepped in my shoes for car enthusiast. He has read that the
MINI is one of the most economical to operate and maintain. Pretty reliable
IIRC.

"Leon" wrote:


"Richard Evans" wrote in message
.. .
"J. Clarke" wrote:


Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is that
what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and not what
professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market to want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their large
ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case and when
incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do, and people want
large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.


Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same thing.
For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it wasn't
all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why) and big,
high performace cars were in demand again.

The original gas lines were because of the price freeze on every thing that
Nixon imposed. Oil companies said they could not make a profit and quit
buying expensive foreign oil. That caused a shortage. Once the price
freeze was lifted, so were the shortages and lines. Gas hogs and high
performance vehicles got less than 10 mpg back then,

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

charlieb wrote:
who appreciates my little white Miata more and more
each day. Lot nicer looking than the Prius - and a hell
of a lot more fun to drive.


How many MPG do you get in that Miata? I've been thinking about one for a long
time.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:58:30 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

My son has stepped in my shoes for car enthusiast. He has read that the
MINI is one of the most economical to operate and maintain. Pretty reliable
IIRC.


The Cooper is too small for my wife's teaching "work wagon" she carts
back and forth every day, but the Clubman is about a foot longer, with
all the cool features of the Cooper intact.

Your son should see the Coopers whip around Lime Rock Park. G

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYQYbH0Bdw&mode=related&search=

Check out the air he catches ~ 00:59, you'll hear it in the RPM's. I
also like the Porsche waving him by... G

I've had the good fortune to do some Skip Barber class days @ LRP,
given as a gift, it's really fun!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
Vehicles will be less
able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large
and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in.

Have you ever tried a Toyota Matrix? Lots of head and leg room. My
father-in-law recently had hip surgery and he figures the back seat of
our Matrix is the easiest thing around for him to get in/out.

Chris

Chris Friesen wrote:

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
Vehicles will be less
able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the
large and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit
comfortably in.

Have you ever tried a Toyota Matrix? Lots of head and leg room. My
father-in-law recently had hip surgery and he figures the back seat of
our Matrix is the easiest thing around for him to get in/out.

At least buy the Pontiac Vibe then, same thing but it has to help somehow.
--
Froz...

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:26:33 -0600, Chris Friesen
wrote:

Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
Vehicles will be less
able for many tasks and there will be more vehicles that the tall, the large
and the elderly and infirm can not get in or can not sit comfortably in.

Have you ever tried a Toyota Matrix? Lots of head and leg room. My
father-in-law recently had hip surgery and he figures the back seat of
our Matrix is the easiest thing around for him to get in/out.

A buddy of mine has one, and it's been a great daily driving,
runaround car. He doesn't have the 4WD version, but he still likes
the way it goes in snow. This guy gets tired of cars fast, and he's
kept the Matrix longer than anything I remember.

The sister Pontiac Vibe can sometimes be purchased for less, and it's
made in the same building as my Toyota Tacoma in Fremont, CA. I
believe the Matrix is built in Canada.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

"Leon" wrote in message
...
The original gas lines were because of the price freeze on every thing
that Nixon imposed. Oil companies said they could not make a profit and
quit buying expensive foreign oil. That caused a shortage. Once the
price freeze was lifted, so were the shortages and lines. Gas hogs and
high performance vehicles got less than 10 mpg back then, and get about
50% better now.

Actually it was more of OPEC flexing its new found power.....the first oil
embargo doubled gas from approx. 30 cents to 60 cents in 1973. The second
embargo in 1979 took it from 60 cents to approx. $1.20. Nixon's ill fated
inflation inspired price controls did raise havoc with beef and a wide
assortment of other products. Nonetheless oil price controls did interfere
with the market place since "old oil" was controlled, with new oil exempt
......it did make the lines longer as "well owners" withheld their old oil
from the market place.......Thus the 1973 lines were worse than the 1979
lines...both sucked. Rod

B A R R Y wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:59:35 -0400, Richard Evans
wrote:

Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same
thing. For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but it
wasn't all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why)
and
big, high performace cars were in demand again.


The Saudis started selling us oil again, that's why prices dropped.

There isn't a singular reason right now why oil is climbing in the
US,
so I'd think twice about jumping on that "great" deal on a gas
guzzler. Nowadays, we beg for oil on a world market with a weak
dollar, in full competition with other buyers, like India and China,
we are now in the genuine world market. India and China weren't
there
in '72.

On the other hand, for those folks who really genuinely NEED a
powerful tow or hauling vehicle... Personally, I would have to
incorporate the lack of resale value into any gas guzzler purchased
today when analyzing a prospective purchase, but there are some
real
"must sells" out there!

I bicycle to work ~ 150 days a year, and I'm amazed at the
difference
in driving "spirit" I see this spring vs. last fall during my
commute
displayed by "style trucks". Folks are driving with an egg under
the
accelerator foot! Last year, these folks never missed an
opportunity
to smoke it from traffic light to traffic light. I'm enjoying the
lack of noise. G

By "style truck", I'm describing the loaded to the gills, 4x4 w/ 20"
rims and low profile tires, leather quad-cab, short-bed, 3/4+ ton,
and
Hemi trucks, usually with Harley stickers and fiberglass tonneau
covers with spoilers, used as commuter vehicles, as opposed to the
typical trades-rig with a long bed, racks and boxes and dirt on it.x

Well, the ones with the Harley stickers are forgivable--they need the
truck to haul the bike to and from the bar.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Richard Evans wrote:
"Leon" wrote:


"Richard Evans" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote:


Attention: General Motors, Ford, Chrysler
NOW do you get IT!?

Yeah, they get it. They've always "gotten it". The trouble is
that what they've "gotten" has been what the market wanted and
not
what professional do-gooders such as yourself _want_ the market
to
want.

Now the gas prices are up to a point relative to incomes that
many
people want smaller vehicles instead of or in addition to their
large ones, and they'll "get" that as long as it remains the case
and when incomes rise to adjust for inflation, if they ever do,
and people want large vehicles again, they'll "get" that as well.


Anyone remember the gas crisis of '72? We went through the same
thing. For a brief period, you couldn't give away a gas hog, but
it
wasn't all that long until things levelled out (I can't say why)
and big, high performace cars were in demand again.

The original gas lines were because of the price freeze on every
thing that Nixon imposed. Oil companies said they could not make a
profit and quit buying expensive foreign oil. That caused a
shortage. Once the price freeze was lifted, so were the shortages
and lines. Gas hogs and high performance vehicles got less than 10
mpg back then,

Not necessarily. My '69 Mercury Cyclone Cobra Jet 428 got 12mpg
around
town and 16mpg on the highway. And I eventually traded it because
hi-test gas was too expensive at $.429 per gallon.

Damn, I miss that car.

The '76 460 Lincoln that's slowly rusting away in my driveway (sooner
or later I hope to restore it--it was my mother's car and has
sentimental value) usually did about the same.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
I feel your pain, Charlie...
Though we're lucky enough to live in Mexico and complain about unleaded
going up
to $2.30 a Gal, we all make trips to the States..
My neighbor just got back from Fresno, the land of $5.50 a gal diesel..
He's
been paying $2.10 here..

We have to go to California on the July 4th weekend for our daughter's
wedding
and expect the fuel cost to be more than the room charge for 2 nights...


mac

Hey Mac
Do you know if Mexico subsidizes the price of gas? A few of the oil
exporting countries sell gas locally well below world market prices (keeps
the natives happy). Rod