I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r

"Robatoy" wrote:

I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864


That's at least a 1,000 "Ah Sh*ts".

And the corporate culture seems to continue it's "F**K YOU" attitude
towards it's employees.

No wonder an employee doesn't want to get involved.

Lew

On May 8, 9:27*am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

That's at least a 1,000 "Ah Sh*ts".

And the corporate culture seems to continue it's "F**K YOU" attitude
towards it's employees.

No wonder an employee doesn't want to get involved.

Lew

It's not as if she ate the damn thing herself... even...

I wonder what that TimBit ( 16 cents) will end up costing TimHortons
by the time the dust settles...
My call? Fire the three managers! Hang them in a public square! Tattoo
the words: "I'm a public relations cluster****!!!" on their foreheads!

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r


Well I agree this is silly. Silly too, is what is not a sensational news
story, is not mentioned in the article. I don't think I would be so
gullible as to believe that this was not the straw that broke the camels
back.

Stupid is the call to fire her over this particular infraction.

Robatoy wrote in news:9670ca79-b34f-40bc-95c1-
:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

She was probably on the store's kill list because she had a good work ethic
and made the other employees look bad.

On May 8, 9:49*am, "Leon" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...

I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r

Well I agree this is silly. *Silly too, is what is not a sensational news
story, *is not mentioned in the article. *I don't think I would be so
gullible as to believe that this was not the straw that broke the camels
back.

Stupid is the call to fire her over this particular infraction.

Exactly... why hang her on a 16 cent TimBit? Obviously they didn't
quite think this thing through.
Tim Hortons is a corporate cluster****. Their coffee sucks too. Their
donuts are nothing but fat and sugar.
My middle daughter worked at Tim Hortons when she was in highschool.
The policy was not to charge cops and EMS types for products. Policy.
I don't like that outfit. (In case you didn't notice.)

"I cannot tell a lie. *I* put that envelope under that pile of
garbage..."

"Leon" wrote in message
...

Well I agree this is silly. Silly too, is what is not a sensational news
story, is not mentioned in the article. I don't think I would be so
gullible as to believe that this was not the straw that broke the camels
back.

Stupid is the call to fire her over this particular infraction.

Exactly what I was thinking. I suspect she had other "issues" relative
to her job performance and had possibly/probably been warned.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out this isn't the whole story.

Dave in Houston

On May 8, 10:09*am, "Dave in Houston" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message

...

Well I agree this is silly. *Silly too, is what is not a sensational news
story, *is not mentioned in the article. *I don't think I would be so
gullible as to believe that this was not the straw that broke the camels
back.

Stupid is the call to fire her over this particular infraction.

* * Exactly what I was thinking. *I suspect she had other "issues" relative
to her job performance and had possibly/probably been warned.



I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out this isn't the whole story.


Unfortunately for Tim Hortons it *is* the whole story. Besides..
whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?
If there were other issues, why chose this idiotic one?

"Robatoy" wrote in message
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making decisions.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" wrote

Unfortunately for Tim Hortons it *is* the whole story. Besides..
whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?

From a PR perspective, you are absolutely correct. Perception is
everything. Even if firing was justified for other reasons, this petty and
moronic act will do much damage to their reputation. If there is some
backbone or intelligence in this company, somebody could turn this thing
around and actually gain from it. Doesn't sound like that is likely though.

If there were other issues, why chose this idiotic one?

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.
Not that it matters much in the real world. Corporate management of many
companies is unfeeling or caring. Even if it costs the company business.

On May 8, 10:15*am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making decisions.

MMmmmm... never quite looked at it that way. I guess it is safe to
assume that the managers will be okay then... after all, that is all
that seems to matter. Screw the serfs.

There was just an update on the radio that one of the managers
admitted that the employee in question had never been written up for
anything in 3 years.

Tim Hortons's stuff is **** anyway.

"Lee Michaels" wrote

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.

.... and "business schools" are arguably at the root of many such problems.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" wrote in message

Swingman wrote:
Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to
relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making decisions.

MMmmmm... never quite looked at it that way. I guess it is safe to
assume that the managers will be okay then... after all, that is all
that seems to matter. Screw the serfs.

A "manager" will never be fired for enforcing a rule or policy, no matter
how ridiculous. He is, after all, "just doing his job".

.... there you have the hidden agenda/thrust behind a "zero tolerance"
policy.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to
relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making decisions.


Public school zero tolorance policies are not limited to your neck of the
woods. Some wild things that permanantly stain a student's record happen
all the time over nothing. I wish some outraged parents would sue the
*******s. A couple big judgements would reintroduce a little sanity into the
process.

If you read the fine print at the bottom of the article, she was rehired the
next day.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r

"Swingman" wrote

"Lee Michaels" wrote

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.

... and "business schools" are arguably at the root of many such problems.


Well, there is theory....., and there is practice.

Theoretically they learn from other's mistakes.

Realistically, they practice the corporate culture, regardless of
consequences, for anybody.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On May 8, 10:09 am, "Dave in Houston" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message

...

Well I agree this is silly. Silly too, is what is not a sensational news
story, is not mentioned in the article. I don't think I would be so
gullible as to believe that this was not the straw that broke the camels
back.

Stupid is the call to fire her over this particular infraction.

Exactly what I was thinking. I suspect she had other "issues" relative
to her job performance and had possibly/probably been warned.



I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out this isn't the whole story.


Unfortunately for Tim Hortons it *is* the whole story. Besides..
whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?

Well, the news article left out the reasons that might have given the store
the benefit of the doubt. I don't doubt the store may be of equal blame
but with out hearing the whole story the news agency has published a biased
article against the company.


If there were other issues, why chose this idiotic one?

Because the whole truth no longer matters if it may down play a sensational
head line.

"Bob Alexander" wrote in message
.. .
If you read the fine print at the bottom of the article, she was rehired
the next day.


Oooups! LOL

"Swingman" wrote:

Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public
schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to
relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making
decisions.

The "Peter Principle" personified.

Lew

On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:24:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.

... and "business schools" are arguably at the root of many such problems.

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point, although things may
have changed since I was in business school.

The emphasis was and, I believe, still is on "leading". rather than
"managing" to some set of strict rules. It was often emphasized that
if the rules were perfect, required no judgement, then there is no
need for a manager. Leading requires judgement within an environment
of consistency. Subordinates, as a group, are comfortable with a
proper "judgement" that fits the situation, much more so than strict
adherence to a rule when it is nonsense.

I doubt that the three supervisors went to business school. If they
did, they need to go back for a refresher course.

Managers are a dime a dozen. Leaders are hard to make or find.

I see that she was rehired?

Frank

Frank Boettcher wrote:

Managers are a dime a dozen. Leaders are hard to make or find.

I see that she was rehired?

Looks like they offered her a job at another location owned by the same
franchisee but managed by different people, and offered to make up any
financial difficulties caused by the firing.

Looks like Tim Hortons corporate people are stepping in to try and avoid
bad press.

Chris

Let 'em know how you feel. I did.






"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r

"Chris Friesen" wrote

Frank Boettcher wrote:

Managers are a dime a dozen. Leaders are hard to make or find.

I see that she was rehired?

Looks like they offered her a job at another location owned by the same
franchisee but managed by different people, and offered to make up any
financial difficulties caused by the firing.

Looks like Tim Hortons corporate people are stepping in to try and avoid
bad press.

I would be much more impressed if they fired those three morons who created
this debacle in the first place.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:24:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

I doubt that the three supervisors went to business school. If they
did, they need to go back for a refresher course.

All three may have been promoted from her position prior to her having
it!

Dave in Houston

So, will you offer her a job? The link also had a story that
she was hired back. Hmm. In the US, I have been employed
for the last 40 years by a variety of companies, some large,
some small with the understanding that I could be
let go at any time. I was laid off twice and decided
that was it and went off on my own. Best decision I
ever made. I have my own hours and make a fair wage
for what I do.

SWMBO has a brother-in-law who was laid off at
the mill twice before he could reach a pensionable age.
Went off, got a job that he loved, now is in retirement
in Florida. Not sure if he missed that old steel mill
job or not. Face it. Job's are NEVER permanent. Unless
you are some sort of high-end professional like a
doctor or lawyer. You will always be subject to
"redeployment" at anytime. Sad fact of life.

The alternative is the French and other European
country systems. You can't layoff anyone in France
unless you give them a LONG lead time - like 6 months!
Guess how much productivity goes down during that
time.

Bottom line - be prepared for surprises in life. Didn't
John Lennon say: "Life is what happens when you're busy
making ther plans?"

MJ Wallace

"Frank Boettcher"

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point, although things may
have changed since I was in business school.

The emphasis was and, I believe, still is on "leading". rather than
"managing" to some set of strict rules.

My point was that one learns the "leadership" necessary to successfully run
a specific business by first gaining a thorough knowledge of the specific
business. IOW, and contrary to current perception, "leadership" is rarely
gained by the act of attending "business school".

I've said this befo I theorize that much of what you see wrong with the
current corporate mentality started with a secret project during WWII to
train "managers" for the ramping up of manufacturing for military/war effort
needs, and has since evolved to the point that conventional wisdom dictates
a "business/MBA school" graduate needs to know little else but what is
taught therein to run any company he heads insofar as whatever widget it
produces.

Besides, ever notice that the rise of the "business/MBA school graduate", as
a practiced prerequisite for running a business, coincides nicely with total
disregard for the customer, doing whatever is expedient for the "bottom
line", and the concept of if it ain't illegal, do it, and morality be
damned?

(present company excluded, of course g)

IMO, we're now arguably seeing the results of this learned behavior in the
rapidly obvious conclusion that we've become a second rate nation with a
second rate economy ... just check out tonight's global business section for
ample evidence of that.

Me, I just want to buy a hamburger that actually looks like the one on the
commercials, or the pictures on the wall!

Let the little things slide in the name of the bottom line and before you
know it you got boxes specifically stating something's inside that isn't ...
and folks defending what's a wrong as a right.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 8, 10:24*am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.

... and "business schools" are arguably at the root of many such problems.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

My dad, a retired accountant, always said that going to business
school was like taking a correspondence course in boxing.

On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:29 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


"Frank Boettcher"

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point, although things may
have changed since I was in business school.

The emphasis was and, I believe, still is on "leading". rather than
"managing" to some set of strict rules.

My point was that one learns the "leadership" necessary to successfully run
a specific business by first gaining a thorough knowledge of the specific
business. IOW, and contrary to current perception, "leadership" is rarely
gained by the act of attending "business school".

Granted, and I agree wholeheartedly. My point is that the business
school doesn't teach improperly, but many corporations rely on the
credential so enthusiastically that they fast track their graduates so
that they never actually spend the time to learn the business. When
the relevant foundation isn't there then they revert to the math
because it is easy and comforts them with their decisions. That is a
problem that will bring very successful companies to their knees in a
flash. I got to live through it.

I've said this befo I theorize that much of what you see wrong with the
current corporate mentality started with a secret project during WWII to
train "managers" for the ramping up of manufacturing for military/war effort
needs, and has since evolved to the point that conventional wisdom dictates
a "business/MBA school" graduate needs to know little else but what is
taught therein to run any company he heads insofar as whatever widget it
produces.

Besides, ever notice that the rise of the "business/MBA school graduate", as
a practiced prerequisite for running a business, coincides nicely with total
disregard for the customer, doing whatever is expedient for the "bottom
line", and the concept of if it ain't illegal, do it, and morality be
damned?

(present company excluded, of course g)

Of course! I had a fortunate but rare advantage. My MBA came over a
period of five years after working from the very bottom over a period
of ten years. That early, valuable education eliminated the normal
delusions of grandeur that fresh MBA's roll out of school with.

IMO, we're now arguably seeing the results of this learned behavior in the
rapidly obvious conclusion that we've become a second rate nation with a
second rate economy ... just check out tonight's global business section for
ample evidence of that.

Me, I just want to buy a hamburger that actually looks like the one on the
commercials, or the pictures on the wall!

Fat chance my friend!

Let the little things slide in the name of the bottom line and before you
know it you got boxes specifically stating something's inside that isn't ...
and folks defending what's a wrong as a right.

On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:31:23 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"Chris Friesen" wrote

Frank Boettcher wrote:

Managers are a dime a dozen. Leaders are hard to make or find.

I see that she was rehired?

Looks like they offered her a job at another location owned by the same
franchisee but managed by different people, and offered to make up any
financial difficulties caused by the firing.

Looks like Tim Hortons corporate people are stepping in to try and avoid
bad press.

I would be much more impressed if they fired those three morons who created
this debacle in the first place.


They should fire the 3 morons and give HER the job. She was execising
good public relations. The morons wouldn't know good public relations
if it kicked them in the behind.
I'd say she was management material.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

When
the relevant foundation isn't there then they revert to the math
because it is easy and comforts them with their decisions.

I'm betting the existence of unspoken epic that could be sandwiched between
those lines. g

Of course! I had a fortunate but rare advantage. My MBA came over a
period of five years after working from the very bottom over a period
of ten years. That early, valuable education eliminated the normal
delusions of grandeur that fresh MBA's roll out of school with.

ROTFL ...

Me, I just want to buy a hamburger that actually looks like the one on
the
commercials, or the pictures on the wall!

Fat chance my friend!

Hehe .... "fat. Probably a good thing, that chance.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote:


Hehe .... "fat. Probably a good thing, that chance.

Recently saw a TV program on PBS describing how the US diet is
basically corn based.

Feed lots that fatten cattle using corn produce an obese animal that
would probably live little more than a few months past the normal
slaughter date, according to the program.

Don't eat much beef anymore, probably just as well.

Lew

Robatoy wrote:
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

r
Wasn't he in that Dr Seuss film called "Horton humps a who" ?
phnork.

On May 8, 10:15 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I don't care if there *is* more to the story... it is an outrage.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/422864

Sounds a (Tim)bit like the "zero tolerance" policy in our public schools
down thissaway, the sole purpose of which is not public good, but to relieve
incompetent administrators from the consequences of making decisions.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Oh, sweet Jesus, yeah. Admin types who nail an 8 year old for carrying
blunted scissors. Another charges a 7 or 8 year old with sexual abuse
because hepats a little girl on the fanny. What a world it has become.

There was a Tim Horton's in Parkersburg, back when Wendy's owned them
I think, that seemed pretty good to me. I'd hit there Sunday a.m.
early for coffee (my wife hated it, I loved it: Probably has something
to do with mess hall coffee) and donuts.

The reasons companies use these days when it comes time to let someone
go are incredible. A frigging miniature donut, though, is about as low
as it gets. There aren't any that I know of around here, but when I'm
elsewhere, I will make avoidance a point.

On May 8, 10:33 am, "Lee Michaels" wrote:
"Swingman" wrote



"Lee Michaels" wrote

This is exactly the kind of thing that is discussed in business schools.

... and "business schools" are arguably at the root of many such problems.

Well, there is theory....., and there is practice.

Theoretically they learn from other's mistakes.

Realistically, they practice the corporate culture, regardless of
consequences, for anybody.

Got a SIL who has an MBA, but who had already made VP before getting.
He does good with it. I worked for an MBA. It will never happen again,
at least not knowingly. We have an MBA President who has yet to figure
out that even governments cannot always spend far more than comes in
(I almost wrote "earn,").

On May 8, 12:16 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Frank Boettcher"

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point, although things may
have changed since I was in business school.

The emphasis was and, I believe, still is on "leading". rather than
"managing" to some set of strict rules.

My point was that one learns the "leadership" necessary to successfully run
a specific business by first gaining a thorough knowledge of the specific
business. IOW, and contrary to current perception, "leadership" is rarely
gained by the act of attending "business school".

I've said this befo I theorize that much of what you see wrong with the
current corporate mentality started with a secret project during WWII to
train "managers" for the ramping up of manufacturing for military/war effort
needs, and has since evolved to the point that conventional wisdom dictates
a "business/MBA school" graduate needs to know little else but what is
taught therein to run any company he heads insofar as whatever widget it
produces.

Besides, ever notice that the rise of the "business/MBA school graduate", as
a practiced prerequisite for running a business, coincides nicely with total
disregard for the customer, doing whatever is expedient for the "bottom
line", and the concept of if it ain't illegal, do it, and morality be
damned?

(present company excluded, of course g)

IMO, we're now arguably seeing the results of this learned behavior in the
rapidly obvious conclusion that we've become a second rate nation with a
second rate economy ... just check out tonight's global business section for
ample evidence of that.

Me, I just want to buy a hamburger that actually looks like the one on the
commercials, or the pictures on the wall!

Let the little things slide in the name of the bottom line and before you
know it you got boxes specifically stating something's inside that isn't ...
and folks defending what's a wrong as a right.


I second your motions, all of them.

I don't know whether to recommend closing all grad level business
schools, or forcing them to re-examine basic morality, as understand
in Christian society (and that comes from what is best described as a
non-practicing one-time sort of Christian, me).

On May 8, 5:20 pm, Charlie Self wrote:
On May 8, 12:16 pm, "Swingman" wrote:



"Frank Boettcher"

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point, although things may
have changed since I was in business school.

The emphasis was and, I believe, still is on "leading". rather than
"managing" to some set of strict rules.

My point was that one learns the "leadership" necessary to successfully run
a specific business by first gaining a thorough knowledge of the specific
business. IOW, and contrary to current perception, "leadership" is rarely
gained by the act of attending "business school".

I've said this befo I theorize that much of what you see wrong with the
current corporate mentality started with a secret project during WWII to
train "managers" for the ramping up of manufacturing for military/war effort
needs, and has since evolved to the point that conventional wisdom dictates
a "business/MBA school" graduate needs to know little else but what is
taught therein to run any company he heads insofar as whatever widget it
produces.

Besides, ever notice that the rise of the "business/MBA school graduate", as
a practiced prerequisite for running a business, coincides nicely with total
disregard for the customer, doing whatever is expedient for the "bottom
line", and the concept of if it ain't illegal, do it, and morality be
damned?

(present company excluded, of course g)

IMO, we're now arguably seeing the results of this learned behavior in the
rapidly obvious conclusion that we've become a second rate nation with a
second rate economy ... just check out tonight's global business section for
ample evidence of that.

Me, I just want to buy a hamburger that actually looks like the one on the
commercials, or the pictures on the wall!

Let the little things slide in the name of the bottom line and before you
know it you got boxes specifically stating something's inside that isn't ...
and folks defending what's a wrong as a right.

I second your motions, all of them.

I don't know whether to recommend closing all grad level business
schools, or forcing them to re-examine basic morality, as understand
in Christian society (and that comes from what is best described as a
non-practicing one-time sort of Christian, me).

And that might just work better as "understood" not "understand."

Time to get out of here and go see about raising some money for Toys
for Tots.

The following was sent to Customer service
=============================
Subject: Timbit Termination
==============================
Message: Basic screw up 101.
==================================

Lew

"Charlie Self" wrote

Probably has something
to do with mess hall coffee) and donuts.

LOL ... you're not one of those who, like me, actually looked forward to SOS
for breakfast, and mess hall corned beef at supper?

Funny what the service will do to you/your tastes. I also ate well trading
up for cans of C-Ration "scrambled" eggs ... a little Louisiana hot sauce,
and my shaker of combined garlic powder/salt and pepper, was all I needed
for a gourmand breakfast, relative speaking.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
They should fire the 3 morons and give HER the job. She was execising
good public relations. The morons wouldn't know good public relations
if it kicked them in the behind.
I'd say she was management material.

According to the news, orders from head office have her rehired and working
at different Tim Hortons.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:


Hehe .... "fat. Probably a good thing, that chance.

Recently saw a TV program on PBS describing how the US diet is
basically corn based.

Feed lots that fatten cattle using corn produce an obese animal that
would probably live little more than a few months past the normal
slaughter date, according to the program.

Don't eat much beef anymore, probably just as well.


A venison and beer diet keeps me from falling into that trap. 'course I
don't know exactly when MY slaughter date is, so I can't know whether
I've beaten the odds.