Enjoy

Lew
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

How to use Your IRS Rebate check...

As you may have heard, each of us will be getting a tax rebate check
to stimulate the economy.

If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If we purchase a computer it will go to India.

If we purchase fruits and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras,
and Guatemala.

If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan.

If we purchase useless stuff it will go to Taiwan and none of it will
help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America.

The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at

YARD SALES,

since those are the only businesses still in the US!

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:6kuQj.117$lc6.33@trnddc04...

If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

I can remember when WallyMart's advertsing touted their
Made-In-America-ness (I know; that's not a REAL word).

Dave in Houston

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Enjoy

Lew
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

How to use Your IRS Rebate check...

As you may have heard, each of us will be getting a tax rebate check
to stimulate the economy.

If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If we purchase a computer it will go to India.

If we purchase fruits and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras,
and Guatemala.

If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan.

If we purchase useless stuff it will go to Taiwan and none of it will
help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America.

The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at

YARD SALES,

since those are the only businesses still in the US!

That's freakin depressing. But freakin true. But I'm getting more and more
customers with money that want me to build them furniture. Guess they're
tired of throwing furniture out on the curb and sending money to china.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

evodawg coughed up some electrons that declared:

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Enjoy

Lew
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

How to use Your IRS Rebate check...

As you may have heard, each of us will be getting a tax rebate check
to stimulate the economy.

If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If we purchase a computer it will go to India.

If we purchase fruits and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras,
and Guatemala.

If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan.

If we purchase useless stuff it will go to Taiwan and none of it will
help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America.

The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at

YARD SALES,

since those are the only businesses still in the US!

That's freakin depressing. But freakin true. But I'm getting more and more
customers with money that want me to build them furniture. Guess they're
tired of throwing furniture out on the curb and sending money to china.

Join the club... I don't think the UK makes anything much either (I work at
a firm that *does* do electronics, but we're small).

I agree on the furniture - I've just inherited a load of furniture since my
father passed away. Most of it needs serious refinishing, but I've kept it
precisely because it is made of decent actual wood. Still better than that
chipboard and MDF crap than most of the sheds sell.

I was in Australia last month and they seem to be doing rather better - they
make a big thing of "Made in Oz". Apparently all your (USA) builders are
disappearing over there due a glut of housebuilding and a shortage of
workers.

BTW - at least you get an IRS rebate. Gordon the Fat Contoller and his
trusty manservant Captain Darling are making damn sure they're keeping all
my money. *******s!

Cheers

Tim

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa? I mean the cost of shipping oil all the way from Saudi Arabia
makes it even more expensive. We get some from there, but I thought it
was only when Africa oil distribution has been interrupted.

(the following is soap box comment, you may ignore it if you choose)
And this way (Canada, Mexico, Africa) the big oil companies owned by
Friends-of-Bush-and-Cheney can make all those huge profits but pay so
little taxes. (moved off-shore to hide profits and avoid taxes.)

That's freakin depressing. But freakin true. But I'm getting more and more
customers with money that want me to build them furniture. Guess they're
tired of throwing furniture out on the curb and sending money to china.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

I wonder if you are seeing a trend? I went to a low level Craft Show last
weekend, Weather was HORRIBLE!!!! Cold, Rainy, Windy! Gate was supposed to
be about 15000 but turned out to be about 500. All the vendors had to do
was walk around and grip about sales. The crafts could be put into the
following categories: High end crafts, midrange crafts, resale items, you
can eat it, jewelry. I noticed that High end crafters made a profit,
midrange went from making expenses to loss, jewelry was a loss, you can eat
it did very well, resale didn't make enough to pay for gas to get home (show
cost $150 and the best sales total from resale I heard of was $50). I have
noticed this as other shows too.
At a High Level show a few weeks ago the useable crafts such as furniture,
pottery etc did well, decorations ( including jewelry) did from good to bad
and food did from well to why am I here depending on whether it was for
commercial sales or home use (Nearly everyone made expenses for the show
about $700). The flea market nearby was dead with vendors willing to wheel
and deal to make expenses (A couple of them I talked to in the smoking area
didn't make booth fee ($100) and said it had been like that at other shows
too). The customers seem to have cash, Credit card sales are down, and are
willing to spend it but are getting more selective on what they buy and what
the quality is. If it is a trend I would like to see it grow.

We need to keep that money here in America.
The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at
YARD SALES,
since those are the only businesses still in the US!


LOL, then take the proceeds from the yard sale and splurge at Wal-Mart. I
would not describe yard sales as businesses, otherwise the profits go back
to Uncle Sam via Schedules C and D which will do no damn good for this
economy.

Regarding federal tax, years ago, we had a 10% investment credit and income
average over a five period - that was a better and equitable stimulus.

This stimulus means the treasury prints more paper money which results in
more federal debt - now at more than 9 trillion dollars. The Chinese just
buy it up, over one trillion dollars so far, $330 billion is US treasury
notes according to Wikipedia. This is a strange relationship - your enemy,
ideology wise, is also your friend.

"Phil Again" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?

Why can we just drill offshore, plenty of oil in the ocean bottom? Why can
we built more nuclear plants? Why we haven't built refineries for years?
This political correctness is killing us.



I mean the cost of shipping oil all the way from Saudi Arabia
makes it even more expensive. We get some from there, but I thought it
was only when Africa oil distribution has been interrupted.

(the following is soap box comment, you may ignore it if you choose)
And this way (Canada, Mexico, Africa) the big oil companies owned by
Friends-of-Bush-and-Cheney can make all those huge profits but pay so
little taxes. (moved off-shore to hide profits and avoid taxes.)

Frank wrote:
We need to keep that money here in America.
The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at
YARD SALES,
since those are the only businesses still in the US!


LOL, then take the proceeds from the yard sale and splurge at Wal-Mart. I
would not describe yard sales as businesses, otherwise the profits go back
to Uncle Sam via Schedules C and D which will do no damn good for this
economy.

Regarding federal tax, years ago, we had a 10% investment credit and income
average over a five period - that was a better and equitable stimulus.

This stimulus means the treasury prints more paper money which results in
more federal debt - now at more than 9 trillion dollars. The Chinese just
buy it up, over one trillion dollars so far, $330 billion is US treasury
notes according to Wikipedia. This is a strange relationship - your enemy,
ideology wise, is also your friend.


Over $4 trillion of the $9 trillion is intra governmental debt - the
result of taking the excess contributions of the 150 or so trust funds
and replacing them with non negotiable government notes. That leaves
the $5 trillion that is negotiable, some owned by foreign interests,
some owned by US funds and some owned by individuals in the form of
savings bonds and other government bonds.

BTW, if the debt were all paid off, it would require cashing in all
those IOUs and investing the $4 trillion portion in other things - in
short, privatizing the trust funds.

But all this is small potatos - the government has currently promised
over $50 trillion in unfunded social programs with politicians dreaming
up new ways to add to the tab to buy your votes.

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:38 -0500, Phil Again
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?

ummm... No.

I mean the cost of shipping oil all the way from Saudi Arabia
makes it even more expensive.

We get a lot of mid-east oil.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:47:16 -0700, " Frank"
wrote:

Why can
we built more nuclear plants?

I hear ya'!

Copy exactly!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:23:20 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:



Canada is the largest single energy supplier to the US, but we ship you
more natural gas than oil.

However, in 2006 we exported more crude than natural gas (in dollar
value, not energy units). In '05 we exported $16 billion of crude and
$32 billion of NG. In '07 it was $25B crude, $24B NG.


Canada provides lots of oil to the US.

However, the Mid-East _region_ supplies more oil to the US than
Canada:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_epc0_im0_mbbl_a.htm


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:38 -0500, Phil Again
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:


If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?
ummm... No.

Canada is the largest single energy supplier to the US, but we ship you
more natural gas than oil.

However, in 2006 we exported more crude than natural gas (in dollar
value, not energy units). In '05 we exported $16 billion of crude and
$32 billion of NG. In '07 it was $25B crude, $24B NG.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html

Dave Balderstone took a can of maroon spray paint on April 26, 2008 05:23 pm
and wrote the following:

In article , B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:38 -0500, Phil Again
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?

ummm... No.

Canada is the largest single energy supplier to the US, but we ship you
more natural gas than oil.

However, in 2006 we exported more crude than natural gas (in dollar
value, not energy units). In '05 we exported $16 billion of crude and
$32 billion of NG. In '07 it was $25B crude, $24B NG.

And if Obama or Clinton want to renegotiate NAFTA, do we get to increase the
price? And lower the price at our pumps? Why is my price of gas tied to
what they charge across the border, NAFTA says it must be, keep it in
Canada at a price they can afford to get it out of the ground.
--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

on 4/25/2008 8:04 PM Lew Hodgett said the following:
Enjoy

Lew
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++

How to use Your IRS Rebate check...

As you may have heard, each of us will be getting a tax rebate check
to stimulate the economy.

If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.

If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.
If we purchase a computer it will go to India.

If we purchase fruits and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras,
and Guatemala.

If we purchase a good car it will go to Japan.

If we purchase useless stuff it will go to Taiwan and none of it will
help the American economy.

We need to keep that money here in America.

The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at

YARD SALES,

since those are the only businesses still in the US!

I spent mine a year or two ago. That and most of the money I'll make in
the next few years.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

FrozenNorth wrote:

Dave Balderstone took a can of maroon spray paint on April 26, 2008 05:23
pm and wrote the following:

In article , B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:38 -0500, Phil Again
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?

ummm... No.

Canada is the largest single energy supplier to the US, but we ship you
more natural gas than oil.

However, in 2006 we exported more crude than natural gas (in dollar
value, not energy units). In '05 we exported $16 billion of crude and
$32 billion of NG. In '07 it was $25B crude, $24B NG.

And if Obama or Clinton want to renegotiate NAFTA, do we get to increase
the
price? And lower the price at our pumps? Why is my price of gas tied to
what they charge across the border, NAFTA says it must be, keep it in
Canada at a price they can afford to get it out of the ground.
Hey don't blame them, blame the US Gov. for doing nothing and allowing our
dollar to become worth almost nothing. The only one benefiting are the
products that still are made in this country. Which are few and far
between.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:44:48 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , B A R R Y
wrote:

However, the Mid-East _region_ supplies more oil to the US than
Canada:

I'm sure the REST OF THE ENTIRE WORLD supplies more oil to the US than
Canada.

Have a nice life.

Dave,

I'm not picking on you. The Mid East region is quite different from
the rest of the world, because the Mid East hates up.

Sorry if I fired you up.


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Dave Balderstone took a can of maroon spray paint on April 26, 2008 06:50 pm
and wrote the following:

In article , FrozenNorth
wrote:

And if Obama or Clinton want to renegotiate NAFTA, do we get to increase
the
price? And lower the price at our pumps? Why is my price of gas tied to
what they charge across the border, NAFTA says it must be, keep it in
Canada at a price they can afford to get it out of the ground.

NAFTA says nothing about tying the pump price of gasoline to the price
south of the border.

It DOES say that Canada can't apply restrictions on our exports to the
US that are more onerous than we apply on our domestic supplies.

THAT's the hammer we would have in any renegotiation of NAFTA.

Remove that clause, and we would have right to turn off the pipelines
to protect domestic supply. Under the current agreement, that's not
possible.

If it isn't in NAFTA there is some other agreement that requires pricing to
be tied to the nearest US city. I have heard it several times, just can't
remember the context.
--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

Dave Balderstone took a can of maroon spray paint on April 26, 2008 09:59 pm
and wrote the following:

In article , FrozenNorth
wrote:

Dave Balderstone took a can of maroon spray paint on April 26, 2008 06:50
pm and wrote the following:

In article , FrozenNorth
wrote:

And if Obama or Clinton want to renegotiate NAFTA, do we get to
increase the
price? And lower the price at our pumps? Why is my price of gas tied
to what they charge across the border, NAFTA says it must be, keep it
in Canada at a price they can afford to get it out of the ground.

NAFTA says nothing about tying the pump price of gasoline to the price
south of the border.

It DOES say that Canada can't apply restrictions on our exports to the
US that are more onerous than we apply on our domestic supplies.

THAT's the hammer we would have in any renegotiation of NAFTA.

Remove that clause, and we would have right to turn off the pipelines
to protect domestic supply. Under the current agreement, that's not
possible.

If it isn't in NAFTA there is some other agreement that requires pricing
to
be tied to the nearest US city. I have heard it several times, just
can't remember the context.

Here in Saskatoon, to tie any price to the "nearest US city" would be
insanity, and I'm sure the media would be full of it.

Methinks you're misremembering. If you do find out what that agreement
is, though, please let me know.

Ok, maybe you are right, but this is an interesting read:

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...en/02047e.html

--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

In article , wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:38 -0500, Phil Again
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:



If we spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't we in the USA get most of
our crude oil from Canada, Mexico, South America, and west coast of
Africa?

ummm... No.

Ummmm.... yes. Damn near two-thirds of it, actually.

Total U.S. oil imports in 2007: 3.656 billion barrels.

Canada: 680 million
Mexico: 514 million
South America: 557 million, broken out as follows
Venezuela: 420 million
Ecuador: 72 million
Argentina: 12 million
Boliva: 1 million
Columbia: 50 million
Peru: 2 million
west coast of Africa: 641 million, broken out as follows
Angola: 181 million
Nigeria: 395 million
Cameroon: 9 million
Congo: 23 million
Equatorial Guinea: 20 million
Gabon: 23 million

680 + 514 + 557 + 641 = 2393.

I mean the cost of shipping oil all the way from Saudi Arabia
makes it even more expensive.

We get a lot of mid-east oil.

Only about 20% of our oil comes from the Middle East.

The top ten oil suppliers to the U.S. are, in order, Canada, Saudi Arabia,
Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria, Angola, Iraq, Algeria, Ecuador, and Kuwait.

Only three of those are in the Middle East, and the last one, Kuwait, in tenth
place, accounts for a whopping one and three-quarters percent of the oil
imported into the U.S. in 2007.

Source for above is the U.S. Department of Energy:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...im0_mbbl_a.htm

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Join the UseNet Improvement Project: killfile Google Groups.
http://www.improve-usenet.org

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Download Nfilter at http://www.milmac.com/np-120.exe

" Frank" wrote in message

This stimulus means the treasury prints more paper money which results in
more federal debt - now at more than 9 trillion dollars. The Chinese just
buy it up, over one trillion dollars so far, $330 billion is US treasury
notes according to Wikipedia. This is a strange relationship - your enemy,
ideology wise, is also your friend.

How long before China controls the US?

I doubt our politician have ever read a history books and looked at the
superpowers of the world and what happened to them.

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:56:05 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

Sorry if I gave you that impression.

No problem!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
" Frank" wrote in message

This stimulus means the treasury prints more paper money which
results in more federal debt - now at more than 9 trillion dollars.
The Chinese just buy it up, over one trillion dollars so far, $330
billion is US treasury notes according to Wikipedia. This is a
strange relationship - your enemy, ideology wise, is also your
friend.

How long before China controls the US?

I doubt our politician have ever read a history books and looked at
the superpowers of the world and what happened to them.

I heard the Arabs were going to buy the US. They couldn't. I heard
that the Japanese were going to buy the US. They couldn't. Now
you're saying that China is going to do it. I'm not holding my
breath.

Find out what percentage of the national debt that 330 billion
represents. And how long it took China to accumulate it. And at what
rate the national debt is increasing.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil. Only
about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the rest
coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and Africa.
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:260420081644484282%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , B A R R Y
wrote:

However, the Mid-East _region_ supplies more oil to the US than
Canada:

I'm sure the REST OF THE ENTIRE WORLD supplies more oil to the US than
Canada.

Have a nice life.

--
Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:250420081849278956%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...

Dave, why did that happen in your reply? Was it something you did, or
is it something OE does?

I dunno; As is my custom, I hit the "REPLY GROUP" button assuming that
the subject line would remain that which it was when I opened the post [to
which I was responding]. Truth to tell, I never considered whether the post
[to which I'm responding] was originally O/T or not.
Good question, Dave. I'll surely pay more contention in the future. I
have to get to the bottom of this!

Dave in Houston

"Dave Balderstone" wrote

It's very, very frequent here that replies to a post labeled OT: or O/T
has that label stripped from it, starting another thread and defeating
the filters of people who want to NOT read off topic posts.

Dave, why did that happen in your reply? Was it something you did, or
is it something OE does?

My guess, and IIRC, in an RFC of yore, "delimiters" like "/", ":", "\" are
used for encoded words in message headers and are probably not being parsed
by OE.

(this may a rare case where MSFT actually follows an RFC instead of ignoring
those parts that are inconvenient to their purpose?)

IOW and IIRC again, include the example "O/T", or "OT:" in the Subject
header, under said RFC, the characters in parentheses wouldn't be displayed
by the mail/news client.

.... it's been a loooong while, however, so I may be all wet.

But ... the saving grace is the "reply" remains "threaded", which is much
less aggravating than when someone starts a new thread with the same subject
on purpose.

Just my tuppence/SWAG ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

How long before China controls the US?

I doubt our politician have ever read a history books and looked at
the superpowers of the world and what happened to them.

I heard the Arabs were going to buy the US. They couldn't. I heard
that the Japanese were going to buy the US. They couldn't. Now
you're saying that China is going to do it. I'm not holding my
breath.

Find out what percentage of the national debt that 330 billion
represents. And how long it took China to accumulate it. And at what
rate the national debt is increasing.

--
--
--John

And look at the rate that China is taking more of our money and has a much
stronger manufacturing base every ears while ours crumbles. I did not say
it would happen next week, but what if some despot leader in China decided
to play games, such as putting on an export tax of 100% or so, or stopped
exports in total to the US or a lot of other possibilities? Or if China
buys Wal Mart.

Just go back and look at powers of the world in the past such as
Constantinople, Rome, Venice, England etc. Follow the gold. It may not
happen in our lifetime, but it can, and probably will, happen some day be it
China or some other country.

"willshak" wrote

I spent mine a year or two ago. That and most of the money I'll make in
the next few years.

--


..... on What?

K.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:13:46 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil. Only
about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the rest
coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and Africa.

Has your BIL read the DOE website? G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

How long before China controls the US?

I doubt our politician have ever read a history books and looked
at
the superpowers of the world and what happened to them.

I heard the Arabs were going to buy the US. They couldn't. I
heard
that the Japanese were going to buy the US. They couldn't. Now
you're saying that China is going to do it. I'm not holding my
breath.

Find out what percentage of the national debt that 330 billion
represents. And how long it took China to accumulate it. And at
what rate the national debt is increasing.

--
--
--John

And look at the rate that China is taking more of our money and has
a
much stronger manufacturing base every ears while ours crumbles. I
did not say it would happen next week, but what if some despot
leader
in China decided to play games, such as putting on an export tax of
100% or so, or stopped exports in total to the US or a lot of other
possibilities? Or if China buys Wal Mart.

Such actions would hurt China far more than they would hurt the US.
Contrary to popular belief the US is not dependent on China for
_anything_.

As for China buying WalMart, that would actually be a very good move
for them, _if_ they could figure out how to keep it working, but I
fail to see how it would be bad for the US.

Just go back and look at powers of the world in the past such as
Constantinople, Rome, Venice, England etc. Follow the gold. It may
not happen in our lifetime, but it can, and probably will, happen
some day be it China or some other country.

So how does the "gold" figure into any of those you mentioned?

Yes, eventually the US will cease to be the predominant power in the
world. That's life. China has four times our population. If they
_don't_ eventually become the predominant power in the world then they
have something _wrong_ with them. But my GOD what a market that's
going to be!

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:04:18 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

[...snip...]

The only way to kee p that money here at home is to spend it at

YARD SALES,

since those are the only businesses still in the US!


Aww, wreckers should know what to do. Just buy a Lie-Neilsen tool, or
some wood...too bad it will be "unpatriotic" to get something from Lee
Valley.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Yes, eventually the US will cease to be the predominant power in the
world. That's life. China has four times our population. If they
_don't_ eventually become the predominant power in the world then they
have something _wrong_ with them. But my GOD what a market that's
going to be!

Maybe the Chinese will start exporting their manufacturing jobs to the
U.S. and it's cheap Mexican labor!
What goes around . . .

Dave in Houston

B A R R Y wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:13:46 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil. Only
about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the rest
coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and Africa.

Has your BIL read the DOE website? G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Question? Hope I'm asking the original poster. When coming through Utah last
summer on vacation with the kids. Stopped near a town, Vernal I think the
name was, but it was near Dinosaur National Park on the Utah/Colo. boarder.
Anyway this town was completely employed by oil companies building this oil
pipeline from Canada to I think Texas. It's funny cause I had never really
heard much about it from that point or since. You'd think it would be all
over the news because of the environmental impact on the Southwest. Anyway
does your brother in law know about this pipeline?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:13:46 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil. Only
about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the rest
coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and Africa.

Has your BIL read the DOE website? G
Probably not. He is an engineer and knows about everything and is willing
to tell you. Does a lot of work out of country mostly Russia.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

"evodawg" wrote in message
news:2e8Rj.272$Yo2.260@trndny01...
B A R R Y wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:13:46 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil. Only
about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the rest
coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and Africa.

Has your BIL read the DOE website? G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Question? Hope I'm asking the original poster. When coming through Utah
last
summer on vacation with the kids. Stopped near a town, Vernal I think the
name was, but it was near Dinosaur National Park on the Utah/Colo.
boarder.
Anyway this town was completely employed by oil companies building this
oil
pipeline from Canada to I think Texas. It's funny cause I had never really
heard much about it from that point or since. You'd think it would be all
over the news because of the environmental impact on the Southwest. Anyway
does your brother in law know about this pipeline?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

I'm sure he knows about it, but how much would be the question. He keeps up
with most of the pipelines being built to one degree or another and has
somepart in the design of a lot of them, mostly overseas but some in the US.
Works out of Alaska and did design work on the Alaskan pipeline back when it
was being built.Thats were he got his start.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Just go back and look at powers of the world in the past such as
Constantinople, Rome, Venice, England etc. Follow the gold. It may
not happen in our lifetime, but it can, and probably will, happen
some day be it China or some other country.

So how does the "gold" figure into any of those you mentioned?

Gold = wealth = power.
At one time all the powers mentioned (I forgot Spain) had the most gold in
the world. Its all in the history books.


Yes, eventually the US will cease to be the predominant power in the
world. That's life.

That is what I've been saying.

China has four times our population. If they
_don't_ eventually become the predominant power in the world then they
have something _wrong_ with them. But my GOD what a market that's
going to be!

But as long as we buy from them more than we sell, and keep moving our
manufacturing over there, they will keep gaining on us and have the
potential to control us.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:23:30 -0500, "Curran Copeland"
wrote:


"B A R R Y" wrote in message


Has your BIL read the DOE website? G
Probably not. He is an engineer and knows about everything and is willing
to tell you. Does a lot of work out of country mostly Russia.

Take a look:

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

January shows ~19% from Canada.


---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Apr 27, 11:10*pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:23:30 -0500, "Curran Copeland"

wrote:

"B A R R Y" wrote in message

Has your BIL read the DOE website? *G
Probably not. *He is an engineer and knows about everything and is willing
to tell you. *Does a lot of work out of country mostly Russia.

Take a look:

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbb...

January shows ~19% from Canada.

Glad to help out... what are friends for?

Curran Copeland wrote:


"evodawg" wrote in message
news:2e8Rj.272$Yo2.260@trndny01...
B A R R Y wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:13:46 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

According to brother in law who designs pipe line to move crude oil.
Only about 10% of US oil comes from Mid East, 60% come from Canada, the
rest coming from North/South/Central America (exculding Canada) and
Africa.

Has your BIL read the DOE website? G

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Question? Hope I'm asking the original poster. When coming through Utah
last
summer on vacation with the kids. Stopped near a town, Vernal I think the
name was, but it was near Dinosaur National Park on the Utah/Colo.
boarder.
Anyway this town was completely employed by oil companies building this
oil
pipeline from Canada to I think Texas. It's funny cause I had never
really heard much about it from that point or since. You'd think it would
be all over the news because of the environmental impact on the
Southwest. Anyway does your brother in law know about this pipeline?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

I'm sure he knows about it, but how much would be the question. He keeps
up with most of the pipelines being built to one degree or another and has
somepart in the design of a lot of them, mostly overseas but some in the
US. Works out of Alaska and did design work on the Alaskan pipeline back
when it was being built.Thats were he got his start.
I see, well thanks for the info. I was just curious why I'd not heard about
it before I traveled through that small town in Utah. Seems like it would
have been a news story.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Just go back and look at powers of the world in the past such as
Constantinople, Rome, Venice, England etc. Follow the gold. It
may
not happen in our lifetime, but it can, and probably will, happen
some day be it China or some other country.

So how does the "gold" figure into any of those you mentioned?

Gold = wealth = power.
At one time all the powers mentioned (I forgot Spain) had the most
gold in the world. Its all in the history books.

In which history book is there a cataloguing of the gold reserves of
each of these civilizations, and what, exactly, do you believe that
has to do with the Chinese economy?

Yes, eventually the US will cease to be the predominant power in
the
world. That's life.

That is what I've been saying.

So why are you on about it. You're going to die too, and if you spend
all your time obsessing about it you're not going to have much of a
life.

China has four times our population. If they
_don't_ eventually become the predominant power in the world then
they have something _wrong_ with them. But my GOD what a market
that's going to be!

But as long as we buy from them more than we sell, and keep moving
our
manufacturing over there, they will keep gaining on us and have the
potential to control us.

Look, the US can struggle to sell faucet washers against fourth-world
economies that can make faucet washers that are as good as ours for a
tenth the price, or we can just say to Hell with the faucet washer
market and concentrate on things that are more profitable. Which
makes more sense? And if the fourth world decides to cut off our
supply of faucet washers how long do you think it takes to get a
faucet washer production line going?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)