As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.

Yet we still question,
Mark

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.


Well getting less food is probably a good thing. We all probably need to
eat less.
As for the Borg pricing in Houston, the Borg has just about always been the
highest place to buy. Same items at the local hard ware store are less
expensive.
The Borg is convenient, and that is its only value IMHO.

"Leon" wrote:


"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.


Well getting less food is probably a good thing. We all probably need to
eat less.
As for the Borg pricing in Houston, the Borg has just about always been the
highest place to buy. Same items at the local hard ware store are less
expensive.
The Borg is convenient, and that is its only value IMHO.

Simple Marketing. Most people will notice a price change, MUCH
quicker than they will notice a quantity change. Which means a
quantity change will have less impact on sales than a price change.
Which, ultimately, makes it a much more desireable way to raise
prices, for a bean-counter with his eye on the bottom line.

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

-Kevin in Indy - who's got an Orange Borg & Green Borg within 2 miles
- Woodcraft & 84 Lumber, 3 miles, Blue Borg, 4 miles, Harbor Freight &
Rockler 5 miles, Sears Hardware & Ace Hardware, 6 miles. I think I'm
about to be assimilated.
To reply, remove (+spamproof+) from address........

Leon wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.


Well getting less food is probably a good thing. We all probably need to
eat less.
As for the Borg pricing in Houston, the Borg has just about always been the
highest place to buy. Same items at the local hard ware store are less
expensive.

I've noticed the same here. I work in
Ottawa in Ontario, as well as in a
Quebec city across the river, where
there are quite a number of HDs and a
Quebec equivalent called Reno Depot.

I live in a very small town about 30
miles away, which has a local
hardware/lumber store. It's small, and
doesn't have near the stock that the
stores in the city have, but the prices
on almost everything are no more than
the larger centres, and at times they
are cheaper. If they don't have stock,
they'll often order for me.

It's not Lee Valley, and they don't
stock exotic woods. But then neither do
the Borgs.

Plus, it's really nice to walk into a
store and be greeted by my first name.

Tanus

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

Paper products, especially toilet paper, is another.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"BDBConstruction" wrote:

Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

Paper products, especially toilet paper, is another.

Lew
The thing that bothers me about the downsizing to keep the same price
point- you are also paying for the change in packaging and the associated
changeover (if any) in the production line. Pat

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:09:36 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

That's been going on for more than ten years. 13oz? I haven't seen
anything bigger than 12oz in any grocery store in this century. The
one huge exception is Dunkin Donuts. They still sell a 1lb bag at a
fairly reasonable price--at Christmas, it's half price. Don't scoff.
DD is right up there with MickyDs for good tasting coffee. People who
think Starbucks is good coffee need not continue in this thread.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

Wait a minute. The OP said people noticed the wire was cheaper at the
borg, so they put less wire in the box AND they lowered the price.
Honestly, as a consumer it is up to you to keep track of what you are
paying. Yeah, maybe they cut the amount of wire by 20% and only
lowered the price by 15% but you can easily figure that out.

I like the bogs. I like Rockler and Woodcraft. I like mon and pop
stores but on the things that matter I know who charges what and if
they are mostly too expensive, I stop shopping there. Typically the
borg has pretty good prices but if it is something I buy often or is
expensive, I see who has the best price before I buy.

BW


On Mar 17, 5:37*pm, Kevin M. Vernon
wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? *Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.

Well getting less food is probably a good thing. *We all probably need to
eat less.
As for the Borg pricing in Houston, the Borg has just about always been the
highest place to buy. *Same items at the local hard ware store are less
expensive.
The Borg is convenient, and that is its only value IMHO.

Simple Marketing. *Most people will notice a price change, MUCH
quicker than they will notice a quantity change. *Which means a
quantity change will have less impact on sales than a price change.
Which, ultimately, makes it a much more desireable way to raise
prices, for a bean-counter with his eye on the bottom line.

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

-Kevin in Indy - who's got an Orange Borg & Green Borg within 2 miles
- Woodcraft & 84 Lumber, 3 miles, Blue Borg, 4 miles, Harbor Freight &
Rockler 5 miles, Sears Hardware & Ace Hardware, 6 miles. *I think I'm
about to be assimilated.
To reply, remove (+spamproof+) from address........- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mar 17, 10:09*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote:
Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

Paper products, especially toilet paper, is another.

Lew

Agreed, I too shop for food. An average pound of pasta has been 12oz
for quite some time. Especially since the petroleum conundrum
companies across the board have been reducing the product while
maintaining the exact package size, and in many cases increasing the
price, to offset additional costs which they feel they can not pass on
to consumers through price alone.

The issue for me is attempted and willfull deception. I see both sides
of it. Kudo's to the marketing agency who gets a big bonus for coming
up with a way to save the corporation millions annually and yet I also
see the family who grabs the same box off the shelf they have been
grabbing for 15 or 20 years only to realize after a several purchases
that the company has rooked them.

This is a common practice across the board, that is no news to anyone.
The issue for me is as I said, willfull deception in an attempt to
deceive the consumer. In this case, a 250' box is basically an
industry standard and has been well established for decades. It is
further compounded by them changing the infomation on the packaging in
an attempt "not" to inform the customer of the quantity change rather
than to inform them.

This would be like you going to a rack of plywood and because it
doesnt say 4x8 on it, you get it home only to put your tape on it and
have it measure 45" x 93". The same would be true, buyer beware.

Mark

On Mar 17, 10:29*pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Wait a minute. The OP said people noticed the wire was cheaper at the
borg, so they put less wire in the box AND they lowered the price.
Honestly, as a consumer it is up to you to keep track of what you are
paying. Yeah, maybe they cut the amount of wire by 20% and only
lowered the price by 15% but you can easily figure that out.

I like the bogs. I like Rockler and Woodcraft. I like mon and pop
stores but on the things that matter I know who charges what and if
they are mostly too expensive, I stop shopping there. Typically the
borg has pretty good prices but if it is something I buy often or is
expensive, I see who has the best price before I buy.

BW

On Mar 17, 5:37*pm, Kevin M. Vernon
wrote:



"Leon" wrote:

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
....
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? *Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.

Well getting less food is probably a good thing. *We all probably need to
eat less.
As for the Borg pricing in Houston, the Borg has just about always been the
highest place to buy. *Same items at the local hard ware store are less
expensive.
The Borg is convenient, and that is its only value IMHO.

Simple Marketing. *Most people will notice a price change, MUCH
quicker than they will notice a quantity change. *Which means a
quantity change will have less impact on sales than a price change.
Which, ultimately, makes it a much more desireable way to raise
prices, for a bean-counter with his eye on the bottom line.

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

-Kevin in Indy - who's got an Orange Borg & Green Borg within 2 miles
- Woodcraft & 84 Lumber, 3 miles, Blue Borg, 4 miles, Harbor Freight &
Rockler 5 miles, Sears Hardware & Ace Hardware, 6 miles. *I think I'm
about to be assimilated.
To reply, remove (+spamproof+) from address........- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am not sure about the pricing but I will make a call tomorrow and
post what I find. I am pretty confident that the price likely doesnt
reflect the reduction to 200' quantity in the box however I am also
pretty comfortable that they are not charging for 200' of wire the
same as they did for 250'. Its likely a split somewhere in the middle.

The fact of the matter is if you cant see when a company is willfully
changing an industry standard in an attempt to deceive consumers to
maintain sales, then you should be on the board or are perhaps a
corporate lawyer. I agree with you 100 percent that it is ultimately
up to the consumer to monitor purchases and that they inffact have
driven the industry to where it is. This will however become a
fulltime job and would apply to every single item you purchase if this
became the practice as a whole.

The system that you propose support of is infact working in reverse.
Rather than a corporation being supported by satisfied customers, the
corporation is trying to sustain itself through customer deceit. This
has actually basically been their mission statement from the get go.
Of course if the bigger system truley works, this deceit should result
in dissatisfaction which should result in change, and if refused,
failure.

Mark

On Mar 17, 10:09*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote:
Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

Paper products, especially toilet paper, is another.

The toilet paper sunsabitches have increased the size of the inner
cardboard roll and manage to blow more air into the paper as well. 30
rolls!!! Of what? Air?

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT), BDBConstruction
wrote:


The fact of the matter is if you cant see when a company is willfully
changing an industry standard in an attempt to deceive consumers to
maintain sales, then you should be on the board or are perhaps a
corporate lawyer. I agree with you 100 percent that it is ultimately
up to the consumer to monitor purchases and that they inffact have
driven the industry to where it is. This will however become a
fulltime job and would apply to every single item you purchase if this
became the practice as a whole.

I can't reply about industry standards, not being in the industry, but in
California and Arizona, the borgs use "unit pricing" like the grocery stores
do.. just check how much per foot each place wants and buy the best deal..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:10:01 -0700, "patrick mitchel" wrote:


"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
"BDBConstruction" wrote:

Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all
our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

When is the last time you checked a can of coffee?

Last I looked, a 16 oz can now has 13 oz in it.

Paper products, especially toilet paper, is another.

Lew
The thing that bothers me about the downsizing to keep the same price
point- you are also paying for the change in packaging and the associated
changeover (if any) in the production line. Pat

Only if you buy it... If you don't, it goes to the Dollar store..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"BDBConstruction" wrote:

I am not sure about the pricing but I will make a call tomorrow and
post what I find.

I can remember a time when a wire quote was only good for 1/2 day.

With the price of scrap copper above $3/lb, I'm surprised the wire people
aren't quoting price in effect at time of shipment.

It's been done before.

Lew

"BDBConstruction" wrote in message
...

The issue for me is attempted and willfull deception. I see both sides
of it. Kudo's to the marketing agency who gets a big bonus for coming
up with a way to save the corporation millions annually and yet I also
see the family who grabs the same box off the shelf they have been
grabbing for 15 or 20 years only to realize after a several purchases
that the company has rooked them.


It will be worthwhile seeing what you discover upon calling yourself. Where
I live HD is still selling 250' rolls of wire. No repackaging to 200'. No
deception.

--

-Mike-

BDBConstruction wrote:

Yet we still question,


Not me!

Thanks for sharing that.

On Mar 17, 7:33 pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
As most of you are well aware I am an anti-borg to say the least. Well
here is the latest I found out today. Local lumberyard tells me that
they are getting a lot of people saying they are out of line with
regard to pricing on 250' boxes of 12-2 romex. Salesman calls a fellow
salesman at the borg and says "wtf is up with this"? Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. These minimal reductions (not to
say that 50' of wire is minimal) of course add up to millions of
dollars across the nation. Whats odd is why there would not be a
notice posted in the wire isle telling the guy who figured a job for
750' of wire that he now needs 4 boxes instead of the three he has
bought for the last 35 years.


All over the United States, ppl scream bloody hell when a new big box
is built in their neighborhood - WalMart is particularly reviled. The
market is good at determining success. Rarely do these types of stores
go out of business ... yet. - I remember when malls were the Next Big
Thing. If you don't like 'em, don't shop 'em. Personally, I find their
quality mostly lacking. Has anybody ever been satisfied with Behr
paint? Yet for some items, I don't care. I got a power mower from Home
Despot. We live on a small city lot and price drove that purchase, not
quality. It takes twenty minutes to mow the lawn. How good does it
need to be?

Jeff

"Kevin M. Vernon" wrote

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

There you have it!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"LRod" wrote

DD is right up there with MickyDs for good tasting coffee. People who
think Starbucks is good coffee need not continue in this thread.

Any college student will confirm that in a heartbeat. When visiting I asked
my college senior daughter where the best cup of coffee in town was, and her
quick reply was "Duncan Donuts".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" wrote

The toilet paper sunsabitches have increased the size of the inner
cardboard roll and manage to blow more air into the paper as well. 30
rolls!!! Of what? Air?

Just noticed that with paper towels: "30% more sheets" means 30% smaller
sheets.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mar 18, 12:53*am, "lewis hodgett" wrote:
"BDBConstruction" wrote:
I am not sure about the pricing but I will make a call tomorrow and

post what I find.

I can remember a time when a wire quote was only good for 1/2 day.

With the price of scrap copper above $3/lb, I'm surprised the wire people
aren't quoting price in effect at time of shipment.

It's been done before.

Lew

Lew,
Wire quotes here are by the week right now on quantity. We buy our
wire in 1000' reels and onesey twosey so it doesnt really affect us
but thats what the supply house has been telling us for months.

Prior to that it was daily pricing but wire has settled down a bit.

I just noticed that a 24 roll pack is now 20 rolls and at the same price.

On the outside of an older package: "6 mega rolls = 24 regular rolls". - or
1 to 4
These "mega" rolls are 400 sheets. Since when was a regular roll 100
sheets?

They are dirtbags. Evil and corrupt. They are worse than what the stuff
wipes off.

On Mar 18, 11:27*am, "none of the above"
wrote:
I just noticed that a 24 roll pack is now 20 rolls and at the same price.

On the outside of an older package: "6 mega rolls = 24 regular rolls". *- or
1 to 4
These "mega" rolls are 400 sheets. *Since when was a regular roll 100
sheets?

They are dirtbags. *Evil and corrupt. *They are worse than what the stuff
wipes off.

Yea... and wtf happened to 'no tax' on 'things we need'? Like no tax
on food, kids' shoes, etc.? They don't think things like TP, menstrual
pads and bars of soap and tooth paste are 'things we need'?

Instead, they tax things we DO need.. like gasoline and scotch!

"Jeff" wrote:

I got a power mower from Home
Despot. We live on a small city lot and price drove that purchase, not
quality. It takes twenty minutes to mow the lawn. How good does it
need to be?


Whatever happened to a hand mower?

Mowed an 80 x 150 yard with a hand mower for years.

By today's view, it would be considered "green" friendly, back then it was
just exercise.

Lew

"Swingman" wrote:

Any college student will confirm that in a heartbeat. When visiting I
asked
my college senior daughter where the best cup of coffee in town was, and
her
quick reply was "Duncan Donuts".

That the same as "Dunkin Donuts"?

Lew

On Mar 18, 7:44 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Kevin M. Vernon" wrote

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

There you have it!

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mar 18, 7:44 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"Kevin M. Vernon" wrote

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.

There you have it!

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Wow... I think I have had all the coffee I should have on this rainy
day.. Fidgety fingers fired off that shot before I could type DITTO.

*knees knocking*

*clickety click*

*teeth chattering*

Robert

Duncan Donuts sells more coffee than anyone else in the US.

Surprising but true.

The best coffee doesn't come from any particular company though. It
comes by region. If you buy a straight cup of Sumatra from Starbucks
(no flavored corn syrup, frothed milk, etc) then odds are it's
essentially the same as Sumatra from say Java City or the Publix down
the street. Companies who roast their own beans don't make much of a
difference either. A medium roasted Sidamo will taste about the same
no matter who does the roasting. Also, Starbucks, Duncan, Brothers,
etc. all buy their coffee from the same markets.

Most starbucks coffee is made from crappy (cheapest in the current
market) beans that are dark roasted for a strong flavor. Then it's
labeled as their "expresso" brand. Once it's brewed with a bunch of
cream, corn syrup and artificial sweeteners then the flavor of the
coffee itself is lost. If you buy bags of their expresso beans you'll
find the taste varies from bag to bag. It's all really dark so the
difference is harder to detect but it's there.

If you haven't tasted different coffees from around the world then
it's hard to understand what a good cup of coffee really is!!

On Mar 17, 7:33 pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
... Borg salesman
replies, "ahhh, hehe, you don't realize that corporate changed all our
wire to 200' boxes instead of 250' ". The new packaging minimally
mentions the footage in the box as opposed to the old packaging.

This of course goes along with Kellogs putting a couple ounces less
ceral in the same box for the same price, Lays and other chip makers
doing the same for chips, and so on. ..

The last time I bought coffee there were about twenty brands
of pre-ground coffee in cans on the shelf. Not one of them
was a one pound can, o reven an whole number of pounds
like 2 or 3, excepting only a chickory-coffee blend.

Check out the labels on vitamins sometime. Some brands
sell 500 mg tablets in a bottle labeled 1000 mg, and in the
fine print they say to take two. IMHO, that's outright fraud.

--

FF

On Mar 18, 12:44 am, mac davis wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:29:23 -0700 (PDT), BDBConstruction

wrote:

The fact of the matter is if you cant see when a company is willfully
changing an industry standard in an attempt to deceive consumers to
maintain sales, then you should be on the board or are perhaps a
corporate lawyer. I agree with you 100 percent that it is ultimately
up to the consumer to monitor purchases and that they inffact have
driven the industry to where it is. This will however become a
fulltime job and would apply to every single item you purchase if this
became the practice as a whole.

I can't reply about industry standards, not being in the industry, but in
California and Arizona, the borgs use "unit pricing" like the grocery stores
do.. just check how much per foot each place wants and buy the best deal..


Do you ever check their arithmetic? Sometimes the unit pricing
is wildly off, like catfood at $50.00/oz.

And some cats still would turn their nose up at it and then
go lick their butts.

--

FF

On Mar 18, 11:58 am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Jeff" wrote:
I got a power mower from Home
Despot. We live on a small city lot and price drove that purchase, not
quality. It takes twenty minutes to mow the lawn. How good does it
need to be?

Whatever happened to a hand mower?

Mowed an 80 x 150 yard with a hand mower for years.

By today's view, it would be considered "green" friendly, back then it was
just exercise.

We were lucky enough to buy a corner lot. While I could certainly mow
it with a push mower, I'd rather spend the additional time cutting
black walnut on my table saw.... (You didn't think I'd get back on
topic, did you?)

Jeff

Snippage

Simple Marketing. Most people will notice a price change, MUCH
quicker than they will notice a quantity change. Which means a
quantity change will have less impact on sales than a price change.
Which, ultimately, makes it a much more desireable way to raise
prices, for a bean-counter with his eye on the bottom line.

Nobody ever went broke by understimating the stupidity of the average
consumer.


Here is another one that gets me. I was in the grocery store a while
back and decided that I would buy some Pringles (don't ask me why).
They had two-packs on the shelf and I figured that they MUST be a deal.
When I actually looked at the pricing, it was 10 cents CHEAPER to buy
two single tubes than the two-pack. I saw that on other things in the
store too. Not always, but enough to know you have to check.

Wayne


-Kevin in Indy - who's got an Orange Borg & Green Borg within 2 miles
- Woodcraft & 84 Lumber, 3 miles, Blue Borg, 4 miles, Harbor Freight &
Rockler 5 miles, Sears Hardware & Ace Hardware, 6 miles. I think I'm
about to be assimilated.

Blue and Orange Borg directly across the street from each other about 3
mi west with a green about a mile further down the same road. Big B
about 4 mi east. Fortunately, Rockler is about 25 miles away with a HF
right next door to it, and Woodcraft is about 35 miles away down a
different highway. UNfortunately, my favorite True Value was forced out
of business by the city. Ace is about 12mi. Only places to buy good
hardwood are 25mi, 35 mi, and 50 miles away with the two closer places
being very small with minimal selection, and the last one is a
MacBeath's in the Peoples Republic of Bezerkely.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT), Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:


And some cats still would turn their nose up at it and then
go lick their butts.

Kind of raises the question of how good tasting does the food really
have to be?

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Mar 17, 9:07 pm, BDBConstruction wrote:

SNIP

This would be like you going to a rack of plywood and because it
doesnt say 4x8 on it, you get it home only to put your tape on it and
have it measure 45" x 93". The same would be true, buyer beware.

I understand what you are saying to some extent. But on the other
hand, the rule of the land has been "caveat emptor" in all dealings
since I can remember. I don't buy anything for a job without checking
out everything along the way as I make my order up. For example, I
have two roofs with all the goodies to install in the next couple of
weeks.

I called my shingle vendor when bidding them, and found that not only
did we have a price increases in December, February and March, but we
are face with another from the manufacturer in April. I have dealt
with these guys for literally 15 years, and none of us has ever seen
the kind of profiteering going on right now.

But do they call me and say, "hey Robert, we are not going to carry
the Elk High Point Ridge vent, we are going to another that is more
expensive." Do they call me when their fuel surcharge goes up? No.
Does my local paint dealer call me when paint goes up? No. Do they
me and every other of their thousand contractors in their list of
clients when they modify or change their delivery charge? No.

I look at it this way. It is my money going out on a job. Period.
It is my responsibility to make sure it is protected; most likely I
won't get anything more than a sigh from my clients when I tell them
prices went up from the time I bid and the signed to the time work
starts. So I do the best I can, knowing I might take a little in the
shorts. But the point being, I do my homework up front and try not to
take anything for granted.

I understand your burning and obvious hatred of HD. I do. Most of
the time they are of little or no use to me as a contractor. But they
have a job to do as well, and none of us really know if their
marketing department didn't find in their research that all of these
people in the TV inspired home improvement wave didn't need the 250',
but would be fine with 200'. I don't know. I really don't care.

I think repackaging is part of marketing, and no retailer will shy
away from a chance to make more money. Being a contractor has made me
a better shopper everywhere, as I use the same techniques for personal
purchases that I do for my business. The first rule of course, is not
to take anything for granted when gathering prices.

In the face of the onslaught of hard competition from the big boxes,
my local hardware stores and lumber yards started playing stink finger
LONG before the big boxes.
I thought that "my boys" down at the local lumberyard would have lower
costs on things because the didn't have the overhead, didn't have to
pay any of the employees health insurance unless they were full time,
and they didn't have an advertising budget. Wrong.

I even paid more to them when I knew I was paying too much since I
wanted to keep the money local, and I did get a little bit better
service from them. But when I started paying waaay too much to them,
how could I justify it. So that they could keep their margins up to
the levels they had when they were the only game in town, they started
selling smaller boxes of nails, off brands of different staple items
like caulk and sealers, and a lot of different off shore stuff began
to sneak into the tool corral.

And if something breaks at HD, you take it back, and you are taken
care of. If it breaks that local lumberyard, they don't want to RTV
it, so they can make it a little harder. The manager of the hardware
store used to tell me, "awww come on... it's just Chinese crap and you
knew it when you bought it. How long did you think it would last?"

Now I am careful and suspicious with all of my purchases. I ask what
size a product is, I ask what amount is in the package, and I ask for
any price increases that might be in effect soon.

Just a few thoughts. Like I said, I understand what you are saying,
but there isn't a damn thing we can do about all of this but to be
aware of more and more aggressive marketing to get our dollars. So
indeed, it is up to all of us to be savvy consumers on point all the
time. A screwing will happen from time to time no matter what we do.
But if a box is marked in plain view, I don't know other than telling
someone how much wire is in a box (in writing) they purchase what a
retailer can do.

The surprise sure isn't pleasant, though.

Just my 0.02.

Robert

On Mar 18, 5:38 am, B A R R Y wrote:
BDBConstruction wrote:

Yet we still question,

Not me!

Thanks for sharing that.

Sigh...

Me neither.

Robert

"Jeff" wrote:

We were lucky enough to buy a corner lot. While I could certainly mow
it with a push mower, I'd rather spend the additional time cutting
black walnut on my table saw.... (You didn't think I'd get back on
topic, did you?)

How much wood do you get cut with the 10 minutes you saved?G

Lew

wrote:

SNIP

I called my shingle vendor when bidding them, and found that not only
did we have a price increases in December, February and March, but we
are face with another from the manufacturer in April.

You'll be lucky if there is only one (1) price increase in April.

After all , shingles are mostly asphalt as in oil based.

Lew

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:37:03 +0000, LRod
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT), Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:


And some cats still would turn their nose up at it and then
go lick their butts.

Kind of raises the question of how good tasting does the food really
have to be?


This could start a whole new marketing concept in the pet food
industry.

"NEW AND IMPROVED! - TASTES LIKE ASS!"




Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
www.home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Mar 18, 11:09 am, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

You'll be lucky if there is only one (1) price increase in April.

That's what they are saying.

After all , shingles are mostly asphalt as in oil based.

Actually, it is smaller part of the composition of a standard
laminated fiberglass shingle than one might think:

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/ConDemo/Shingles/

And remember, the apshaltic/coal residues used in shingle manufacture
are actually the by products of refining. And 25% of the overall cost
of goods to manufacture doesn't amount to much.

Even when they factor in the transportation costs, the .40 a gallon
raise per gallon of fuel doesn't translate in direct proportion to the
price we are seeing at the vendor.

And average truck brings in 190 or so squares of roofing. If they go
up on their prices about 20% in 4 months, that means an increase of
pricing to my supplier of a little over $1000. Owens Corning already
charges (and adjusts to fuel pricing - per load!) of $175,
to defray fuel costs from Houston/Temple. That will buy them their
entire fuel to the vendor, there and back.

Nawww... there is some monkey shines going on. That $1000 went in
part to cover the 25% cost of material in a shingle, but where did the
other 75% go with all fuel charges covered? And BTW, I also pay my
vendor to deliver and roof load as well as a fuel charge.

But again, who can stop it? I just call for prices, and then put a 15
day start clause in my short contracts to make sure I can be covered
on the costs.

Robert

wrote:


And remember, the apshaltic/coal residues used in shingle manufacture
are actually the by products of refining. And 25% of the overall cost
of goods to manufacture doesn't amount to much.

Actually most of the oil pumped here in California is considered asphalt
grade and goes directly into asphalt based products.

All the major roofing products guys are here.

We do business with most of them.

As far as glass is concerned, energy costs have a major impact on the final
cost.

There may be something else, but oil not only as a feed stock, but also as
an energy source have a major impact.

Lew