I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


I would run a line for a subpanel box. It greatly simplifies wiring in the
shop.

The best part about 220 is that it is needed for many tools. And if you are
like most of us, you will acquire more tools in the future. Particularly if
you ever decide to do some welding.

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


Well - it's a no brainer then. If you're tripping breakers with what you
currently have, you need more circuits. Go ahead with the 220 line while
you're at it. Any additional cost will be negligible. Your saw motor will
run cooler and you'll be well positioned for other tools that run better on
220. Be sure to run at least a 60A service (sub-panel) out there.

--

-Mike-

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


Sounds like you have your answer. More circuits. Not much advantage to
going to the 240 as far as the saw's concerned, due to the way the majority
of the dual voltage motors are wired. What should be a saving in less
length of wire (parallel windings) is taken away when the 240 connects them
in series. Won't hurt, certainly, and you don't have to run as high gage
wires, due to lower amperage draw.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:23:42 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


I would run a line for a subpanel box. It greatly simplifies wiring in the
shop.

The best part about 220 is that it is needed for many tools. And if you are
like most of us, you will acquire more tools in the future. Particularly if
you ever decide to do some welding.

In my garage I have a 20 amp circuit. I cannot run 2 big tools at the
same time. In my basement where I have my woodworking tools I have a
few 20 amp circuits. Vacuum/dust collector is on a different circuit
from the saws or planer.

I second the subpanel in the garage. More circuits of 120 and 240 are
possible at a lower cost.

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking
of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


I would run a line for a subpanel box. It greatly simplifies wiring
in the shop.

The best part about 220 is that it is needed for many tools. And if
you are like most of us, you will acquire more tools in the future.
Particularly if you ever decide to do some welding.

I'm not seeing the original post so replying here.

Other than being able to run tools that aren't available in 110
versions, the major benefit is that the current draw and thus IsquareR
losses in the wiring are cut in half. Thus, for example, my band saw
instead of taking a minute and a half to come to speed and popping the
breaker half the time instead comes up to speed in a few seconds.

I agree that a subpanel for the garage is the way to go. If code
allows you to do your own wiring, once the box is in place adding
additional circuits becomes much easier than running them to the main
breaker panel. You can also kill all power in the garage from the
main breaker panel if you need to.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Feb 20, 10:07*am, Jim Behning
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:23:42 -0500, "Lee Michaels"





wrote:

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

I would run a line for a subpanel box. *It greatly simplifies wiring in the
shop.

The best part about 220 is that it is needed for many tools. *And if you are
like most of us, you will acquire more tools in the future. *Particularly if
you ever decide to do some welding.

In my garage I have a 20 amp circuit. I cannot run 2 big tools at the
same time. In my basement where I have my woodworking tools I have a
few 20 amp circuits. Vacuum/dust collector is on a different circuit
from the saws or planer.

I second the subpanel in the garage. More circuits of 120 and 240 are
possible at a lower cost.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah the subpanel sounds like a good idea, though I doubt I will need
any more lines and I am thinking there is even more of a cost for that
subpanel. I have been quoted many different prices and it is rather
disconcerting to think about spending even more money on a subpanel
out in the garage.

I just spoke with an electrician and he thinks I can use the existing
conduit to add in another line if it is just 110. The 220 they are
guessing will require a brand new run of conduit. Since my basement is
already finished, it would mean a lot of holes I think to run that
pipe...

Airedale wrote:
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

You have alot of pretty good suggestions about the subpanel,
etc., but I don't think anyone has yet answered your original
question.

The basic reason for running 220 volt vs 110 volts would be to
decrease the amperage load. For example: If you were running a
tool that draws close to 10 or 12 amps on normal run time, the
amperage would increase on start-up (initial load/torque) and if
the tool was put under a heavy load (like ripping on table saw or
taking the maximum cut on a planer) the amperage would also
increase, relative to the load placed on the tool. If plugged
into a standard 15 amp line, you'd most likely trip the breaker.
But even if not, you'd be pulling enough amps through the
standard 14 guage wire as to risk overheating it. (14 guage wire
is rated for 15 amps and 12 guage wire is rated at 20 amps.) You
must also have the proper receptacle for whatever you are going
to use... 110 volt/15 amp, 110 volt/20 amp, 220 volt, etc.)

Basic electricity (Ohm's Law) dictates that as voltage capacity
increases, the amperage decreases. So, a 15 amp load at 110 volts
would decrease by half at 220 volts... which would be 7.5 amps.

I run mine on 220, but I really can't tell much difference in the
performance of the saw. I have had it wired both ways, and it
doesn't seem to change the power of the saw. (Of course, I would
have to have two identical saws and try them side by side with
the different voltages to really compare.)

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:58:53 GMT, "George" wrote:


"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

Not much advantage to going to the 240 as far as the saw's concerned,
due to the way the majority of the dual voltage motors are wired. What
should be a saving in less length of wire (parallel windings) is taken
away when the 240 connects them in series.

I'm pretty sure the gozinta equals the gozouta (watts) regardless of
whether it's wired for 120V or 240V. Parallel vs series doesn't affect
that at all. See Kirchoff.

Won't hurt, certainly, and you don't have to run as high gage
wires, due to lower amperage draw.

I'm always amused by this particular point. If smaller wires is the
goal then there's no point in wiring for 240V at all. Usually the need
for 240V (other than supplying 240V Only tools) arises from the 120V
wiring being inadequate in the first place. By going to 240V, the
current draw is cut in half, thus reducing the voltage drop (loss).
That solves the inadequacy part, but then turning around and saying,
"and, you can run smaller wires..." utterly negates the benefits,
putting one back to square one.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

Add the 220 and you will probably never have voltage drop problems using
220. Many stationary planers and larger band saws, jointers, etc run on
220.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
. ..

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


I would run a line for a subpanel box. It greatly simplifies wiring in
the shop.

The best part about 220 is that it is needed for many tools. And if you
are like most of us, you will acquire more tools in the future.
Particularly if you ever decide to do some welding.




Concur on the subpanel. I had to take two house breakers out of the main
panel and move them to the sub to open up a spot for a 100amp breaker to the
sub. The minor inconvenience of this is that I can't cut power to the whole
shop without killing the lights to swmbo's office (she doesn't like that).
The *major* convenience is that every machine has its own breaker. Another
benefit is that the circuit that has both the ceiling lights and wall
receptacles (which are two different circuits) are still in the main panel.
That way, if ever a situation arises that the 100amp breaker to the sub
trips (I can't imagine why), I'll still have lights on.

I've not tripped a single breaker since going to this arrangement.

jc

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:12:30 -0800 (PST), Airedale
wrote:

I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

How many horsepower does the table saw generate? Another way of asking
is how many amps does the table saw draw at 110 volts, both on start
up and under load?

If you were looking at a 1.5 HP table saw, or the amps are at 15 or
under, you'd probably be OK with a 110 volt circuit, 20 amp circuit
breaker, 12 gauge wire.

At 2 HP or more, or over 15-18 amps current draw, you really are going
to want a 220 volt circuit, as the alternative is a 30 amp 110 volt
circuit and 10 gauge wire, which doesn't make a lot of sense to put
in.

Regardless you want to dedicate this circuit to the table saw.

If you ever want a dust collector for your saw, or other heavy duty
tools, the subpanel others have suggested is going to save a lot of
money over time.

Airedale wrote in
:


Yeah the subpanel sounds like a good idea, though I doubt I will need
any more lines and I am thinking there is even more of a cost for that
subpanel. I have been quoted many different prices and it is rather
disconcerting to think about spending even more money on a subpanel
out in the garage.


*snip*

Think about it this way: What's going to happen in the future? If you
spend all this money on running a new line out to the garshop, then find
you could use that extra capacity later, you've got to spend all that
money again. If you run a proper subpanel out there, and find you need a
new line, the subpanel's already out there.

When you're ready for 220V, you can take it off the subpanel and put on
matching plugs. As I understand it, there's several styles of plugs for
220, so you need to make sure they match up.

When you're getting quotes, make sure to ask for a couple variations.
You may find that an upgrade doesn't cost as much as you thought.

Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

LRod wrote in
news
*snip*

Won't hurt, certainly, and you don't have to run as high gage
wires, due to lower amperage draw.

I'm always amused by this particular point. If smaller wires is the
goal then there's no point in wiring for 240V at all. Usually the need
for 240V (other than supplying 240V Only tools) arises from the 120V
wiring being inadequate in the first place. By going to 240V, the
current draw is cut in half, thus reducing the voltage drop (loss).
That solves the inadequacy part, but then turning around and saying,
"and, you can run smaller wires..." utterly negates the benefits,
putting one back to square one.


With high enough voltage, shouldn't we be able to use 24 gauge wire to
run our table saws? LOL Danger, 1.5 MILLION VOLTS!

Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Puckdropper" wrote

Think about it this way: What's going to happen in the future? If you
spend all this money on running a new line out to the garshop, then find
you could use that extra capacity later, you've got to spend all that
money again. If you run a proper subpanel out there, and find you need a
new line, the subpanel's already out there.

When you're ready for 220V, you can take it off the subpanel and put on
matching plugs. As I understand it, there's several styles of plugs for
220, so you need to make sure they match up.

When you're getting quotes, make sure to ask for a couple variations.
You may find that an upgrade doesn't cost as much as you thought.

Also, if you are trying to save money and don't want to do the actual
wiring, Buy the subpanel and run the wires. Leave room at the ends for the
electricial to make the connections. Install any boxes needed and run tnose
wires as well.

This is commonly done in areas where it is illegal to do do the wiring
itself. So people do everything except the connections. That way a licensed
electrican can sign off ont the job.

"LRod" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:58:53 GMT, "George" wrote:


"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

Not much advantage to going to the 240 as far as the saw's concerned,
due to the way the majority of the dual voltage motors are wired. What
should be a saving in less length of wire (parallel windings) is taken
away when the 240 connects them in series.

I'm pretty sure the gozinta equals the gozouta (watts) regardless of
whether it's wired for 120V or 240V. Parallel vs series doesn't affect
that at all. See Kirchoff.


See resistance.

Won't hurt, certainly, and you don't have to run as high gage
wires, due to lower amperage draw.

I'm always amused by this particular point. If smaller wires is the
goal then there's no point in wiring for 240V at all. Usually the need
for 240V (other than supplying 240V Only tools) arises from the 120V
wiring being inadequate in the first place. By going to 240V, the
current draw is cut in half, thus reducing the voltage drop (loss).
That solves the inadequacy part, but then turning around and saying,
"and, you can run smaller wires..." utterly negates the benefits,
putting one back to square one.

What's so amusing? Run 20 amps at 240 on the same wires you can run 20 at
120, right? Sounds like a correct statement to me.

"Airedale" wrote:

I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.


This question comes up at least every other week.

Yes, you need 240V in the shop if you are going to do any serious work
involving stationary power tools.

To do the job so that you get the biggest bang for the buck, install a
2P-60A sub feeder in the house panel, a 12/24 ckt, 125 MLO sub panel
with a 2P-60A main, in the garage and #4 feeder wire in a new
conduit. (1-1/2" plastic will make pulling the wire a lot easier).

(Yes you can save a couple of $'s with #6AWG, but I like #4AWG,
especially when you only do this job once)

Find an electrican who wants to pick up a few extra $'s and work with
them.

You do the grunt work under their direction, they make the hook ups.

Have fun.

Lew

"Airedale" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam
Advantage of 220: Less voltage loss in the circuitry. Thus more of the
power that are buying (at a not so cheap price these days) gets wasted
heating the wiring.

Disadvantage of 220: Costs lots to install in old work. But only an
electrician would know how much more (depends on whatever else needs to be
done at
\the very least..

Jim

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:32:30 GMT, "George" wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:58:53 GMT, "George" wrote:


Not much advantage to going to the 240 as far as the saw's concerned,
due to the way the majority of the dual voltage motors are wired. What
should be a saving in less length of wire (parallel windings) is taken
away when the 240 connects them in series.

I'm pretty sure the gozinta equals the gozouta (watts) regardless of
whether it's wired for 120V or 240V. Parallel vs series doesn't affect
that at all. See Kirchoff.

See resistance.

See parallel resistance vs series resistance. Again, Kirchoff.

Won't hurt, certainly, and you don't have to run as high gage
wires, due to lower amperage draw.

I'm always amused by this particular point. If smaller wires is the
goal then there's no point in wiring for 240V at all. Usually the need
for 240V (other than supplying 240V Only tools) arises from the 120V
wiring being inadequate in the first place. By going to 240V, the
current draw is cut in half, thus reducing the voltage drop (loss).
That solves the inadequacy part, but then turning around and saying,
"and, you can run smaller wires..." utterly negates the benefits,
putting one back to square one.

What's so amusing? Run 20 amps at 240 on the same wires you can run 20 at
120, right? Sounds like a correct statement to me.

Yes, in isolation that statement is correct. You said, however,
"...and you don't have to run as high gage wires..."

Where the amusement comes in is that in most cases someone is
contemplating switching to 240V supply because the tool in question is
having trouble ramping up to speed smartly, is dimming the shop
lights, or some other symptom of undersized feed for the load at hand.
The obvious and correct answer is to switch to 240V, because with only
half the current draw, the I^2*R losses are reduced to the point that
the capacity of the feed is no longer the issue that it was at 120V.

Then someone always follows such a recommendation with the news that
with 240V you can run smaller wire. Smaller wire was the problem in
the first place (at 120V). If you run smaller wire at 240V, you have
essentially put yourself right back into the same circumstance you
were before.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

LRod writes:


Then someone always follows such a recommendation with the news that
with 240V you can run smaller wire. Smaller wire was the problem in
the first place (at 120V). If you run smaller wire at 240V, you have
essentially put yourself right back into the same circumstance you
were before.

Look at it this way: To get the same behaviour at 120 that you get
at 240 with (forex AWG12), you'd need to go to AWG10 on the 120
circuit (and possibly a 30a current interrupting device, to boot).

So, you can use smaller wire with 240 than with 120 _performance being
equal_.

I do understand your point, however.

scott

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:35:55 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

LRod writes:


Then someone always follows such a recommendation with the news that
with 240V you can run smaller wire. Smaller wire was the problem in
the first place (at 120V). If you run smaller wire at 240V, you have
essentially put yourself right back into the same circumstance you
were before.

Look at it this way: To get the same behaviour at 120 that you get
at 240 with (forex AWG12), you'd need to go to AWG10 on the 120
circuit (and possibly a 30a current interrupting device, to boot).

So, you can use smaller wire with 240 than with 120 _performance being
equal_.

I do understand your point, however.

Yes, my point being that equal performance is not the goal we were
aiming for.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

In article , wrote:


So, you can use smaller wire with 240 than with 120 _performance being
equal_.

Well, yes, but if the performance at 120V is inadequate, there's hardly any
point in _matching_ that performance at 240V...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Jim" wrote:

Advantage of 220: Less voltage loss in the circuitry. Thus more of the
power that are buying (at a not so cheap price these days) gets wasted
heating the wiring.

Tell you what: why don't you calculate exactly how much difference that makes,
and get back to us with a monthly cost delta. Hint: not as much as you think.

Disadvantage of 220: Costs lots to install in old work. But only an
electrician would know how much more (depends on whatever else needs to be
done at the very least..

Pfffffft. The additional labor to install a 240V circuit, as compared to a
120V circuit, is negligible. Certainly doesn't cost "lots".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Feb 20, 8:59*am, Robert Allison wrote:
Airedale wrote:
I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

You have alot of pretty good suggestions about the subpanel,
etc., but I don't think anyone has yet answered your original
question.

The basic reason for running 220 volt vs 110 volts would be to
decrease the amperage load. For example: If you were running a
tool that draws close to 10 or 12 amps on normal run time, the
amperage would increase on start-up (initial load/torque) and if
the tool was put under a heavy load (like ripping on table saw or
taking the maximum cut on a planer) the amperage would also
increase, relative to the load placed on the tool. If plugged
into a standard 15 amp line, you'd most likely trip the breaker.
But even if not, you'd be pulling enough amps through the
standard 14 guage wire as to risk overheating it. (14 guage wire
is rated for 15 amps and 12 guage wire is rated at 20 amps.) You
must also have the proper receptacle for whatever you are going
to use... 110 volt/15 amp, 110 volt/20 amp, 220 volt, etc.)

Basic electricity (Ohm's Law) dictates that as voltage capacity
increases, the amperage decreases. So, a 15 amp load at 110 volts
would decrease by half at 220 volts... which would be 7.5 amps.

I run mine on 220, but I really can't tell much difference in the
performance of the saw. *I have had it wired both ways, and it
doesn't seem to change the power of the saw. *(Of course, I would
have to have two identical saws and try them side by side with
the different voltages to really compare.)

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Wow I dont know what saw you are runing but I went from a 110 delta
contractors saw to a 220 volt delta unisaw. It is like night and day.
When you turn it on you can feel and hear the difference. Push a board
throught and you will never go back to a 110 saw. I go out of my way
to obtain all 220 tools.

Howard wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:59 am, Robert Allison wrote:

Airedale wrote:

I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

You have alot of pretty good suggestions about the subpanel,
etc., but I don't think anyone has yet answered your original
question.

The basic reason for running 220 volt vs 110 volts would be to
decrease the amperage load. For example: If you were running a
tool that draws close to 10 or 12 amps on normal run time, the
amperage would increase on start-up (initial load/torque) and if
the tool was put under a heavy load (like ripping on table saw or
taking the maximum cut on a planer) the amperage would also
increase, relative to the load placed on the tool. If plugged
into a standard 15 amp line, you'd most likely trip the breaker.
But even if not, you'd be pulling enough amps through the
standard 14 guage wire as to risk overheating it. (14 guage wire
is rated for 15 amps and 12 guage wire is rated at 20 amps.) You
must also have the proper receptacle for whatever you are going
to use... 110 volt/15 amp, 110 volt/20 amp, 220 volt, etc.)

Basic electricity (Ohm's Law) dictates that as voltage capacity
increases, the amperage decreases. So, a 15 amp load at 110 volts
would decrease by half at 220 volts... which would be 7.5 amps.

I run mine on 220, but I really can't tell much difference in the
performance of the saw. I have had it wired both ways, and it
doesn't seem to change the power of the saw. (Of course, I would
have to have two identical saws and try them side by side with
the different voltages to really compare.)

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX


Wow I dont know what saw you are runing but I went from a 110 delta
contractors saw to a 220 volt delta unisaw. It is like night and day.
When you turn it on you can feel and hear the difference. Push a board
throught and you will never go back to a 110 saw. I go out of my way
to obtain all 220 tools.

I am comparing the SAME saw on 110 and 220. I don't notice much
difference. I notice alot of difference between different saws,
but I don't notice much difference in the same one. And it is
running on 220.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:48:18 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:

Howard wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:59 am, Robert Allison wrote:

Airedale wrote:

I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam

You have alot of pretty good suggestions about the subpanel,
etc., but I don't think anyone has yet answered your original
question.

The basic reason for running 220 volt vs 110 volts would be to
decrease the amperage load. For example: If you were running a
tool that draws close to 10 or 12 amps on normal run time, the
amperage would increase on start-up (initial load/torque) and if
the tool was put under a heavy load (like ripping on table saw or
taking the maximum cut on a planer) the amperage would also
increase, relative to the load placed on the tool. If plugged
into a standard 15 amp line, you'd most likely trip the breaker.
But even if not, you'd be pulling enough amps through the
standard 14 guage wire as to risk overheating it. (14 guage wire
is rated for 15 amps and 12 guage wire is rated at 20 amps.) You
must also have the proper receptacle for whatever you are going
to use... 110 volt/15 amp, 110 volt/20 amp, 220 volt, etc.)

Basic electricity (Ohm's Law) dictates that as voltage capacity
increases, the amperage decreases. So, a 15 amp load at 110 volts
would decrease by half at 220 volts... which would be 7.5 amps.

I run mine on 220, but I really can't tell much difference in the
performance of the saw. I have had it wired both ways, and it
doesn't seem to change the power of the saw. (Of course, I would
have to have two identical saws and try them side by side with
the different voltages to really compare.)

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX


Wow I dont know what saw you are runing but I went from a 110 delta
contractors saw to a 220 volt delta unisaw. It is like night and day.
When you turn it on you can feel and hear the difference. Push a board
throught and you will never go back to a 110 saw. I go out of my way
to obtain all 220 tools.

I am comparing the SAME saw on 110 and 220. I don't notice much
difference. I notice alot of difference between different saws,
but I don't notice much difference in the same one. And it is
running on 220.

The whole key to this is what the supply is like. If you have a good
stiff 120V supply with a short cord, you likely would see zero
difference between 120V and 240V wiring. Once the voltage gets to the
motor the motor cannot tell whether it's 120V or 240V, anyway. The
voltage goes through the same windings (just differently) Each winding
sees exactly 120V regardless of how the motor is hooked up.

However, the wires outside the motor are all the difference. If your
120V supply is a long way from the panel and you have a long motor
cord, and god forbid it's a 15A circuit, your saw is going to jump to
life like a racehorse out of the gate when it's wired (and supplied)
for 240V.

It is not, however, because there's something magic about 240V or the
motor. It's about double the current draw at 120V and four X the
percentage of voltage drop that makes the difference.

And there're no heat issues, no energy savings, no magic pill. Stiff
supply, no difference. Long runs, 240V usually makes a difference.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:12:30 -0800 (PST), Airedale
wrote:

I am picking up a Table Saw and it comes prewired for 110, but have
been told it can be switched over to 220.

Right now I do not have a 220 line in the Garage, but am thinking of
having an electrician come out to put in the line. Is it worth it?
What are the benefits of going 220?

I probably need a line run anyway as I keep tripping the circuit
breaker with a few things running at the same time.

Thanks,

Adam


I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian on the subpanel. Nothing
against the idea, just might be overkill depending on your plans.

My 400 square foot shop started with a single 20 AMP 110 V circuit
pulled from the main panel and a lighting circuit that came by
extending an existing, underutilized, lighting circuit from the
carport. For years this worked fine.

I then added several 220 tools and ran a second circuit from the main
panel to handle 220.

I only run one tool at a time or occaisonally, one running on the 220
circuit and one on the 110 circuit. I've often worked with a friend
and the single 110 circuit was able to run my RAS and Jointer, with
the table saw running on the 220 circuit as we rapidly processsed a
lot of lumber for glue up.

Never any tripping or voltage drop problems.

My advice, if you have even a remote plan to make the garage a real
shop and are going to be drawing lots of power in the future, the the
60 amp minimum subpanel is probably a good idea. Particularly if you
plan to be there for a while. If not, you may be just adding a lot
of electricians cost.

Now, that said, I'm planning a shop expansion, doubling the size and
connected load and will put in a 60 Amp subpanel. Primary reason is
the addition of a dust collection system and having an air compressor
on random start feeding shop air. But it took me 15 years to get to
the point I need the additional power.

Look past your connected load to your diversity factor. Connected
load is not important if very little is operating at any given time.

It may be that pulling the wire for the second circuit in the existing
conduit is your most cost effective approach.

Frank

"thinks I can use the existing conduit to add in another line if it is
just 110. "

It appears you are hesitant to do your own electric. But the cost
differential (contractor vs self-install) will be significant for many
folks - certainly for me!

However, if you already have a conduit line running 110 into the
subject area and the electrician indicates he could add another
circuit through that same conduit run (which involves using one or all
of the existing wires in that conduit to pull a string through ther
conduit and then tying that off to the new group of wires and pulling
them back through.

So, if it were me, I'd look at the conduit run and see if I couldn't
fit a sub-panel at the point it enters the subject space. (You can
mount them recessed into or on the wall surface) and check the specs
to see the largest gauge wire one might pull through the existing (I
am assuming tubular) conduit run and the max amp that gauge wire would
carry. If you can fit 10/3 you could do your 220VAC and if you can fit
8/3 even better - more amps.

You put a 15 Amp breaker in for the existing circuit and add breakers
for the 220 for the saw and another breaker or two for additional tool
circuits as suggested elsewhere in the thread.

If what your electrician saw was a straight run through an existing
conduit from you main panel to your garage, its as if you have a small
entension cord (in there) and need to replace it with a larger
extension cord. How simple is that?

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
news

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian on the subpanel. Nothing
against the idea, just might be overkill depending on your plans.

My 400 square foot shop started with a single 20 AMP 110 V circuit
pulled from the main panel and a lighting circuit that came by
extending an existing, underutilized, lighting circuit from the
carport. For years this worked fine.

I then added several 220 tools and ran a second circuit from the main
panel to handle 220.

I only run one tool at a time or occaisonally, one running on the 220
circuit and one on the 110 circuit. I've often worked with a friend
and the single 110 circuit was able to run my RAS and Jointer, with
the table saw running on the 220 circuit as we rapidly processsed a
lot of lumber for glue up.

Never any tripping or voltage drop problems.


I agree Frank. I operated most of my equipment on a 15 amp circuit for
almost 20 years, I still do. I added 220 when I had to, my cabinet saw only
runs on 220. Fortunately that enabled me to go with a honken band saw and a
stationary planer. The Performax drum sander needs to be plugged into the
single 20 amp circuit as it an the DC are too much for the 15 amp circuit.
Typically I can run the DC, large router, radio, lighting, and fan on the 15
amp circuit, but shut a tool down quick if the compressor starts up. LOL

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Jim"
wrote:

Advantage of 220: Less voltage loss in the circuitry. Thus more of the
power that are buying (at a not so cheap price these days) gets wasted
heating the wiring.

Tell you what: why don't you calculate exactly how much difference that
makes,
and get back to us with a monthly cost delta. Hint: not as much as you
think.

Disadvantage of 220: Costs lots to install in old work. But only an
electrician would know how much more (depends on whatever else needs to be
done at the very least..

Pfffffft. The additional labor to install a 240V circuit, as compared to a
120V circuit, is negligible. Certainly doesn't cost "lots".
Once upon a time, I wanted to install an electric oven in my kitchen which
needed a 60 amp circuit. The existing oven only needed a 40 amp circuit,
and that
was what was in the house. So, I called an electrcian to get an idea. He
quoted a very high price because he would need to replace the wiring. It is
the labor
involved in old work that runs the cost up. The cost of the wiring, etc.,
is almost incidental. I am talking about making changes to an existing
structure.
It certainly would not cost me very much to install a 240v circuit in my
garage because there is already a 240v line inside the wall.
Jim

So the electrician comes out and quotes me $780 to run the new line. I
am blown away at how much it would cost for that.

Because we are planning on moving in about 5 years, I wasn't willing
to put that much money into the place for something I won't be reaping
the benefits of in the long run.

Instead I had him switch over an existing line in the garage from 15
Amps to 20 Amps. The only other thing that runs on that are a couple
of shop lights. Those don't draw too much amperage so I figure I'll be
fine.

Since the existing line was run with 14 gauge wire, they beefed it up
to 12 gauge. That whole little fiasco cost me $275.

You guys have any similar experiences? I am left thinking to myself
that I got into the wrong industry!

Airedale wrote:
You guys have any similar experiences? I am left thinking to myself
that I got into the wrong industry!

Around here the homeowner can get a permit to do electrical work as long
as it's inspected by the power utility. (Once nice thing about this is
that the inspector is then available for code interpretation questions.)

Shortly after buying my house I installed a new subpanel in the garage
and added a whole bunch of outlets (120 and 240V, various amperages),
overhead lighting circuits, unit heater circuit, etc.

If you have the skills to do it yourself, it's *much* cheaper.

Chris

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:51:35 -0800 (PST), Airedale
wrote:

So the electrician comes out and quotes me $780 to run the new line. I
am blown away at how much it would cost for that.

Because we are planning on moving in about 5 years, I wasn't willing
to put that much money into the place for something I won't be reaping
the benefits of in the long run.

Instead I had him switch over an existing line in the garage from 15
Amps to 20 Amps. The only other thing that runs on that are a couple
of shop lights. Those don't draw too much amperage so I figure I'll be
fine.

Since the existing line was run with 14 gauge wire, they beefed it up
to 12 gauge. That whole little fiasco cost me $275.

You guys have any similar experiences? I am left thinking to myself
that I got into the wrong industry!


$780...Ouch! My house was setup for a 220v outlet for an electric
stove. Since I have a gas stove and gas clothes dryer, I had a choice
to take one of these for my shop 220v circuit. I decided to take the
stove 220v and wired that into the subpanel in my shop. I left the
220v laundry alone because I thought electric clothes dryers are more
popular than electric stoves. Plus a gas stove (unlike a clothes
dryer) would be left with the new home owner. I paid an electrician
$50 to inspect and test my wiring.

In article , "Jim" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Jim"
wrote:

Advantage of 220: Less voltage loss in the circuitry. Thus more of the
power that are buying (at a not so cheap price these days) gets wasted
heating the wiring.

Tell you what: why don't you calculate exactly how much difference that makes,
and get back to us with a monthly cost delta. Hint: not as much as you think.

Disadvantage of 220: Costs lots to install in old work. But only an
electrician would know how much more (depends on whatever else needs to be
done at the very least..

Pfffffft. The additional labor to install a 240V circuit, as compared to a
120V circuit, is negligible. Certainly doesn't cost "lots".
Once upon a time, I wanted to install an electric oven in my kitchen which
needed a 60 amp circuit. The existing oven only needed a 40 amp circuit,
and that
was what was in the house. So, I called an electrcian to get an idea. He
quoted a very high price because he would need to replace the wiring. It is
the labor
involved in old work that runs the cost up.

Exactly so. It is the labor involved in old work. Whether it's 240V or 120V is
almost irrelevant; it costs hardly any more to install 240V in old work than
it does to install 120V in old work. The cost is not a "disadvantage of 240V"
as you called it; the cost is a disadvantage of old work. That electrician
would have charged you very nearly the same to install a 60A 120V circuit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.