I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...apBench-ne.pdf

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any
help would be awesome!

"Josh" wrote:

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

On Jan 24, 10:19*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. *Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

"Josh" wrote in message
...
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

Bring it into the house for a few months. You are single, right?

On Jan 24, 10:50*pm, "Pat" wrote:
"Josh" wrote in message

...
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. *The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. * Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. *dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

Bring it into the house for a few months. *You are single, right?

Not Single... But I could move it to the basement which is probably
in the low 60s. How long do I need to wait? Am I better off just
using it now before it twists or warps? Will it laminate ok with glue?

On Jan 24, 10:53*pm, samson wrote:
In article c22810cc-f17d-44f8-aef9-84f31d7acfe5
@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, says...



On Jan 24, 10:19*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. *Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. *The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. * Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. *dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

That's kind of a neat design -- easy to build but sturdy. The
clamps will cost a little bit. And I wish the kid would turn
the planes on their sides when he's done with them.

S.

Turning planes on their sides. I read about a cool tip to protect
the blades... use those business card magnet things that pizza places
and plumbers give a way... place it on the sole of the plane.

"Josh" wrote in message
...
I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...apBench-ne.pdf

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any
help would be awesome!

Thanks for the link.

I would be reluctant to use green limber for a work bench. You want the
bench to be true and stable. I would be afraid of movement as the lumber
acclimated.

That said, better lumber yards, NOT THE BORGS, can supply you with Kiln
Dried construction grade lumber and at not too much more of an expense.
When it counts I buy this type lumber.

"Josh" wrote in message
...

Turning planes on their sides. I read about a cool tip to protect
the blades... use those business card magnet things that pizza places
and plumbers give a way... place it on the sole of the plane.


Good idea except my planes have wooden soles. Darn.

"Josh" wrote:

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days.

Interesting, one of the reasons for kiln drying is to reduce the
weight for shipping.

Some must be kiln dried to be able to use it.

When I was in Ohio, almost all the construction lumber was kiln dried.

Evidently you have wood that can be worked wet.

The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s.

If you can get it in the basement it will be almost as good as direct
sunlight in the summer.

A heated house has low relative humidity in the winter.

Maybe a month and you will be good to go.

Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath, but like chicken soup, asking
"hadn't ought a hurt".

Lew

if you could put it in your basement in a confined area on sticks with
heat, (up to about 110 degrees) and a fan on slow you could take it to
low enough moisture in about 10 days. this would depend on the moisture
content of the wood now, i'd guess about 18 to 20 % and relative
humidity. try googling drying lumber and look at EMC equalibriam
moisture content.
ross
www.highislandexport.com

"Josh" wrote in message
...
On Jan 24, 10:50 pm, "Pat" wrote:
"Josh" wrote in message

...
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...

If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

Bring it into the house for a few months. You are single, right?

Not Single... But I could move it to the basement which is probably
in the low 60s. How long do I need to wait? Am I better off just
using it now before it twists or warps? Will it laminate ok with glue?

Move it into the basement, cover it with a tarp and put a dehumidifier under
the tarp making sure the output of the dehumidifier isn't blocked.

On Jan 24, 8:29*pm, Josh wrote:
I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...sGoodFastAndCh...

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. *Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. *My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? *I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. *Any
help would be awesome!

I'm sure your construction lumber is kiln dried. But you either
forgot or did not know an important fact. The amount of moisture in
kiln dried construction lumber, what you bought, is about 18%. Give
or take. The amount of moisture in kiln dried hardwwod or any wood
used in furniture building is about 8%. Give or take. Construction
lumber is designed, made for house building. It does not need super
low moisture content to be usable. So the suppliers do not waste
money making it drier than necessary. They could not compete against
other suppliers because their cost would be much higher for their wood
because of the extra expense of kiln drying longer. Hardwoods or
furniture grade softwoods have to be much lower moisture percentage to
be usable. So everyone has to spend the extra money on a longer kiln
drying process or they could not sell their wood at all.

You're trying to use a product not designed for the use you intend.
And now you are blaming the supplier for your mistake.

Personally, I think a workbench should be built as nice as possible so
you take pride in using it. I'm not a fan of cheap, quick
construction lumber benches. If you have to have cheap and quick,
then make the base of softwood and make the top of hardwood. Either
make or buy a hardwood top. Cheap, quick softwood benches are fine
for construction sites or garage/barn do everything work areas.

The bench you link to has some serious flaws. The metal vise used as
an end vise requires the long row of dog holes to be centered on the
metal vise or else the vise will rack everytime its used and be
worthless very quickly. Thus the long row of dog holes are about 6
inches in from the side of the bench. Too far to be useful. If you
go down to the bottom of the website you linked to you will see a nice
hardwood bench. Notice its end vise is the traditional one and its
dog holes are about 1 inch in from the edge. You can clamp narrower
pieces in the end vise and have the edge overhang the bench side.
Read Scott Landis' workbench book and Sam Allen's workbench book for
better ideas on how to build a bench.

On Jan 25, 8:55*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:29*pm, Josh wrote:

I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...sGoodFastAndCh...

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. *Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. *My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? *I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. *Any
help would be awesome!

I'm sure your construction lumber is kiln dried. *But you either
forgot or did not know an important fact. *The amount of moisture in
kiln dried construction lumber, what you bought, is about 18%. *Give
or take. *The amount of moisture in kiln dried hardwwod or any wood
used in furniture building is about 8%. *Give or take. *Construction
lumber is designed, made for house building. *It does not need super
low moisture content to be usable. *So the suppliers do not waste
money making it drier than necessary. *They could not compete against
other suppliers because their cost would be much higher for their wood
because of the extra expense of kiln drying longer. *Hardwoods or
furniture grade softwoods have to be much lower moisture percentage to
be usable. *So everyone has to spend the extra money on a longer kiln
drying process or they could not sell their wood at all.

You're trying to use a product not designed for the use you intend.
And now you are blaming the supplier for your mistake.

Personally, I think a workbench should be built as nice as possible so
you take pride in using it. *I'm not a fan of cheap, quick
construction lumber benches. *If you have to have cheap and quick,
then make the base of softwood and make the top of hardwood. *Either
make or buy a hardwood top. *Cheap, quick softwood benches are fine
for construction sites or garage/barn do everything work areas.

The bench you link to has some serious flaws. *The metal vise used as
an end vise requires the long row of dog holes to be centered on the
metal vise or else the vise will rack everytime its used and be
worthless very quickly. *Thus the long row of dog holes are about 6
inches in from the side of the bench. *Too far to be useful. *If you
go down to the bottom of the website you linked to you will see a nice
hardwood bench. *Notice its end vise is the traditional one and its
dog holes are about 1 inch in from the edge. *You can clamp narrower
pieces in the end vise and have the edge overhang the bench side.
Read Scott Landis' workbench book and Sam Allen's workbench book for
better ideas on how to build a bench.

GREEN, unseasoned, and undried Douglas Fir is readily available at
lumber yards in NJ. All construction lumber is NOT kiln dried! That
being said, I called the lumber yard this morning, and they said they
can switch out everything for kiln dried spruce. I'm going to go to
the lumber yard and check out the wood before the deliver/switch it.
I am a major newbie to woodworking and I don't see why building this
bench and later graduating to a better one isn't a reasonable plan.
It seems much better than working on a sears handyman style bench, or
a workmate. Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book
with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood? Regarding the
end vise. I was planing on fashioning jaw pads with 3 dog holes in
them. And drilling 3 rows of round dog holes on the bench top..
rather than chiseling out the one row of square holes in the plans.
Do you think this bench is a major waste of time? I thought it was a
good compromise between a handyman style bench and a euro style
woodworking bench.

Josh wrote:

That
being said, I called the lumber yard this morning, and they said they
can switch out everything for kiln dried spruce. I'm going to go to
the lumber yard and check out the wood before the deliver/switch it.

Chances are good it will be %18 moisture. That's just the way it is for
construction lumber. If you can get Southern Yellow Pine construction
lumber where you are, that would be far superior to spruce. Also, you
may want to consider buying 2x12s instead of 2x4s, then ripping them to
the widths you need. The advantage of this is that 2x12s tend to be
clearer and straighter.

Let it sit for a week and you should be fine. The boards that are
cooler to the touch are wetter...use them for the legs. Use the driest
boards for the stretchers, and the rest for the top. This way the legs
will shrink more than the stretchers and the mortises in the legs will
tighten down on your stretcher tenons.

I am a major newbie to woodworking and I don't see why building this
bench and later graduating to a better one isn't a reasonable plan.

It is a very reasonable plan. I highly recommend buying/borrowing
Christopher Schwarz's recent workbench book. It discusses what a
workbench needs to do and different ways of doing it, along with two
(three if you get the CD) workbench designs of very different styles.
Very well written.

Regarding the
end vise. I was planing on fashioning jaw pads with 3 dog holes in
them. And drilling 3 rows of round dog holes on the bench top..

Probably overkill. A single row of dog holes near the front, with
widely spaced holes 6" in from the back for use with holdfasts/holddowns
will likely work better. The end vise should be right at the front
edge, with a thick (3" or so) wooden jaw containing a single dog hole in
the middle. Put a row of dog holes in the workbench about 4" apart in
line with the hole in the vise, and you're set.

Chris

On Jan 24, 10:27 pm, Josh wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...
I would think you can sticker it inside in cold DRY weather. Maybe add
a small fan.

One would think this would work.

Hoosierpopi wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:27 pm, Josh wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Josh" wrote:
....

I had delivered to my home green...
I would think you can sticker it inside in cold DRY weather. Maybe add
a small fan.
....
Albeit slowly, yes...

--

Josh wrote:
On Jan 25, 8:55 am, "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:29 pm, Josh wrote:

I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and
Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...sGoodFastAndCh...

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and
my 2x8s are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough
to make the bench top. My question is, can I use any of this
lumber, can I still make mortise and tenon joins with green
lumber?
I didn't realize I needed to specify DRY when ordering
construction
grade lumber. Any help would be awesome!

I'm sure your construction lumber is kiln dried. But you either
forgot or did not know an important fact. The amount of moisture in
kiln dried construction lumber, what you bought, is about 18%. Give
or take. The amount of moisture in kiln dried hardwwod or any wood
used in furniture building is about 8%. Give or take. Construction
lumber is designed, made for house building. It does not need super
low moisture content to be usable. So the suppliers do not waste
money making it drier than necessary. They could not compete
against
other suppliers because their cost would be much higher for their
wood because of the extra expense of kiln drying longer. Hardwoods
or
furniture grade softwoods have to be much lower moisture percentage
to be usable. So everyone has to spend the extra money on a longer
kiln drying process or they could not sell their wood at all.

You're trying to use a product not designed for the use you intend.
And now you are blaming the supplier for your mistake.

Personally, I think a workbench should be built as nice as possible
so you take pride in using it. I'm not a fan of cheap, quick
construction lumber benches. If you have to have cheap and quick,
then make the base of softwood and make the top of hardwood. Either
make or buy a hardwood top. Cheap, quick softwood benches are fine
for construction sites or garage/barn do everything work areas.

The bench you link to has some serious flaws. The metal vise used
as
an end vise requires the long row of dog holes to be centered on
the
metal vise or else the vise will rack everytime its used and be
worthless very quickly. Thus the long row of dog holes are about 6
inches in from the side of the bench. Too far to be useful. If you
go down to the bottom of the website you linked to you will see a
nice hardwood bench. Notice its end vise is the traditional one and
its dog holes are about 1 inch in from the edge. You can clamp
narrower pieces in the end vise and have the edge overhang the
bench
side. Read Scott Landis' workbench book and Sam Allen's workbench
book for better ideas on how to build a bench.

GREEN, unseasoned, and undried Douglas Fir is readily available at
lumber yards in NJ. All construction lumber is NOT kiln dried!
That
being said, I called the lumber yard this morning, and they said
they
can switch out everything for kiln dried spruce.

Be aware that spruce is very soft. It's not really a good choice for
a bench top. It's light, strong for its weight, and nice to work
with, but it's very, very easy to knock a dent into it. Try pressing
your thumbnail into a piece of spruce, then into a piece of fir, then
into a piece of the soft maple that Home Depot sells and you'll see a
significant difference in hardness. If they've got some cutoffs, try
banging a corner of each into the other and then imagine what your
bench is going to be like after a few years of that.

I'm going to go to
the lumber yard and check out the wood before the deliver/switch it.
I am a major newbie to woodworking and I don't see why building this
bench and later graduating to a better one isn't a reasonable plan.
It seems much better than working on a sears handyman style bench,
or
a workmate.

Do you have a Workmate or the Stanley FatMax project center that's the
same idea? If not, you might want one--they're very handy things to
have around. If you look closely at the file you linked you'll notice
that a Workmate appears in many of the photos.

Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book
with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood?

Because when you're done with it you'll have something that's going to
last. I think you'll also be surprised at how much easier it is to
work with cabinet-grade maple than with construction-grade fir.

Regarding the
end vise. I was planing on fashioning jaw pads with 3 dog holes in
them. And drilling 3 rows of round dog holes on the bench top..

You still put a racking load on the vise, which unless the vise is
purpos-designed to accept such loads is eventually going to wreck it.

rather than chiseling out the one row of square holes in the plans.

Do you have the Scott Landis book? Chiseling the dog holes is doing
it the hard way if you're going with square. He shows a couple of
alternative methods of making them IIRC.

Do you think this bench is a major waste of time? I thought it was a
good compromise between a handyman style bench and a euro style
woodworking bench.

I wouldn't call it a "major waste of time"--it's going to be far more
useful than the floor--but considering the time you're going to put
into making it, using better materials and a better design would be
worthwhile. Yeah, get some spruce too, cut it to the same dimensions
as your maple, and use it to check your setups before you cut the
maple or birch or whatever you decide to use.

If you need a set of plans to work from, Lee Valley has three nice
sets and sells all the hardware needed to make them. They tell you
everything you need to know and as long as you remember to measure
twice and cut once, and do a dry assembly and mark what goes where
before each glue up you should be fine.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I live in Jersey too. I can get dried construction grade lumber.
Just shop around at a real lumber yard.

I would see if they will take it back.
Also this will be a fine bench for a newbie.
When you are ready for maple, this will be a good finishing, or assembly
bench. When you need to drive screws into it you won't be afraid to. You
can build your own stop blocks, clamping devices right into the bench.

What you'll learn building this will help on the next bench. But this
one will last you quite a few years.

Make sure you clamp up all the dried lumber for 2 or 3 weeks to hold it
from warping while it finishes air drying in your shop. Or build it and
weight it down with some cement or sand bags for a few weeks after while
it dries assembled. After the wood is dried you can level the top.

Josh wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...
If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.

Thats a personal thing. I was taught to turn them, but after nicking
them or myself I have started leaving them upright. They are less prone
to getting nicked, and so am I. I have never understood how leaving them
on there side is good, but I followed it for years until I knew better.


That's kind of a neat design -- easy to build but sturdy. The
clamps will cost a little bit. And I wish the kid would turn
the planes on their sides when he's done with them.

S.

Chris Friesen wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Josh wrote:
Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book
with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood?

Because when you're done with it you'll have something that's going to
last. I think you'll also be surprised at how much easier it is to
work with cabinet-grade maple than with construction-grade fir.

There's also a school of thought that says make a cheap first bench and
learn as you go, use it for a few years and change it around to see what
you like, then make a better one once you know your preferences.

A softer top does have the advantage that if you accidently drop a
workpiece on the edge of the top it's less likely to damage the workpiece.

I tend to concur w/ the latter view -- one thing that is pretty
effective and inexpensive for a first bench is to use the construction
lumber then lay a piece of masonite or similar hardboard on top--a
couple small brads countersunk can hold it down but not be a problem w/
edges and if it gets destroyed it's easy/cheap to replace. It's
surprisingly durable as well as smooth...

--

J. Clarke wrote:
Josh wrote:
Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book
with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood?

Because when you're done with it you'll have something that's going to
last. I think you'll also be surprised at how much easier it is to
work with cabinet-grade maple than with construction-grade fir.

There's also a school of thought that says make a cheap first bench and
learn as you go, use it for a few years and change it around to see what
you like, then make a better one once you know your preferences.

A softer top does have the advantage that if you accidently drop a
workpiece on the edge of the top it's less likely to damage the workpiece.

Chris

"Josh" wrote in message
...

My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any
help would be awesome!

I'm slowly putting together ideas for a new (small) bench to fit beside the
old bench in our cramped garage. I thought a hardwood butcher-block top
would be nice until I started checking prices. Guess where I found
reasonably-priced butcher-block tops? Ikea. They make them in various
sizes for kitchen cabinets, and one is perfect for the size bench I'd like
to build and way cheaper than anybody else I've seen. I might slap a sheet
of plywood underneath it to be sure it will support a couple of vises with
no problems, but I think I've found the top I wanted and it won't need
drying.

DGDevin wrote:

I'm slowly putting together ideas for a new (small) bench to fit beside the
old bench in our cramped garage. I thought a hardwood butcher-block top
would be nice until I started checking prices. Guess where I found
reasonably-priced butcher-block tops? Ikea. They make them in various
sizes for kitchen cabinets, and one is perfect for the size bench I'd like
to build and way cheaper than anybody else I've seen. I might slap a sheet
of plywood underneath it to be sure it will support a couple of vises with
no problems, but I think I've found the top I wanted and it won't need
drying.

The main problem with that is that the butcher-block top will expand and
contract with humidity changes, while the plywood will not. As long as
you plan for this, you shouldn't have any problems.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
DGDevin wrote:

I'm slowly putting together ideas for a new (small) bench to fit beside
the old bench in our cramped garage. I thought a hardwood butcher-block
top would be nice until I started checking prices. Guess where I found
reasonably-priced butcher-block tops? Ikea. They make them in various
sizes for kitchen cabinets, and one is perfect for the size bench I'd
like to build and way cheaper than anybody else I've seen. I might slap
a sheet of plywood underneath it to be sure it will support a couple of
vises with no problems, but I think I've found the top I wanted and it
won't need drying.

The main problem with that is that the butcher-block top will expand and
contract with humidity changes, while the plywood will not. As long as
you plan for this, you shouldn't have any problems.

Chris

Why don't you double the top up with 3/4" plywood and with a 1/8" masonite
top that you could turn over when the top gets beat up? I would also band
the edges with 2" by 3/4" hardwood.

I appreciate everyone's input. Based on other websites and forums,
people that have built this bench seem to be happy with it and use it
for many years to develop their skills. I'm sorry if I've offended
the purists here :-) . I can appreciate their views because I'm the
same way with guitars and musical instruments.

Josh wrote:

I am a major newbie to woodworking and I don't see why building this
bench and later graduating to a better one isn't a reasonable plan.
It seems much better than working on a sears handyman style bench, or
a workmate.

Don't knock the workmate, you can do a whole lot with them. Including
build a workbench.

Why attempt to build a bench out of Scott Landis' book
with absolutely no experience and using expensive wood?

Why, indeed? Build what you are capable of building Now with the least
expensive materials that will do the job and *not frustrate you* by being
difficult to to work or warping within weeks. When you know you want to
continue woodworking and know the type of woodworking you like doing,
Then build your ultimate bench. You may even find you have already built
it.

The suggested books are still worth reading Now, as they do have tips on
Simple work benches. The Landis book, IIRC, even has a chapter devoted to
the workmate.

LD

I appreciate everyone's input. Based on other websites and forums,
people that have built this bench seem to be happy with it and use it
for many years to develop their skills. I'm sorry if I've offended
the purists here :-) . I can appreciate their views because I'm the
same way with guitars and musical instruments.

Josh I think you have the right attitude. Listen to the purists and take
them with a grain of salt.

Build it.

I have the killer euro-maple-bench but it took me a long time to get there.
Developing you woodworking skills is an iterative process as is upgrading
your tooling to match your skills.

Others have mentioned the Landis book; buy it. It addresses all types of
benches spanning European, Japanese, Plywood and even a chapter on the
workmate. Live with the tubafor bench for a couple of years and you will
have a better idea of the style of bench that will best suit your needs for
the long term. That book will give you a broad selection of designs from
which to draw ideas.

-Steve



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

tiredofspam wrote:
I live in Jersey too. I can get dried construction grade lumber.
Just shop around at a real lumber yard.

I would see if they will take it back.
Also this will be a fine bench for a newbie.
When you are ready for maple, this will be a good finishing, or assembly
bench. When you need to drive screws into it you won't be afraid to. You
can build your own stop blocks, clamping devices right into the bench.

What you'll learn building this will help on the next bench. But this
one will last you quite a few years.

I think that's the key here. First of
all, it's cheaper wood than maple,
regardless of which soft wood you
choose. I did a lot of things with
softwood before I felt OK with tackling
harder woods, and I found the softwoods
more forgiving for the things I was doing.

Secondly, there's no real waste of time.
The bench will give you lots of
enjoyment when you use it, not to
mention the wonderful feeling of
satisfaction you'll have when it's
finished, but still has its virginal
cherry. That won't last long, but it's
still worth calling up relatives and
bringing in people you don't know from
the street and showing it off to them.

You said you were a newbie. Maybe this
will spur you on to become less of a
newbie, or maybe you'll be satisfied
with just doing a few projects from time
to time. If the latter is the case, then
you'll likely get to a point where you
want a more substantial bench. But
you'll always have this one to look at
and do lessons learned on it.

There are many different levels of skill
in the Wreck, but I can broadly
generalize it into three: professionals,
amateur hobbyists and the very exacting
group that demands the best all the time
of everything. This last group can be
either pros or amateurs.

Each group will look at a problem from
their own perspective and that has to be
taken into account when you ask for an
opinion.

In this question, you're lucky because
you have a wide range of opinions. Some
support your original idea, some don't.
But lots of them give you flexibility to
alter your ideas if need be.

Make sure you clamp up all the dried lumber for 2 or 3 weeks to hold it
from warping while it finishes air drying in your shop. Or build it and
weight it down with some cement or sand bags for a few weeks after while
it dries assembled. After the wood is dried you can level the top.

Josh wrote:
On Jan 24, 10:19 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Josh" wrote:
But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber
that
I had delivered to my home green...
If you are in someplace like SoCal, then wait for it to quit raining,
then sticker it outside exposed to the sun for a few weeks.

Will also work in colder climates, just take longer.

Lew

I wish I was in SoCal! I'm in New Jersey, so it's currently about
between 15 and 35 degrees these days. The wood is in my garage so
it's not as cold in there, probably in the mid 40s. Do you think the
lumber yard will come pick it up and exchange it for some kiln dried
wood. dried wood seems hard to find in NJ.




--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

"Michael Faurot" wrote in message
...
DGDevin wrote:

I'm slowly putting together ideas for a new (small) bench to fit
beside the old bench in our cramped garage. I thought a hardwood
butcher-block top would be nice until I started checking prices.
Guess where I found reasonably-priced butcher-block tops? Ikea. They
make them in various sizes for kitchen cabinets, and one is perfect
for the size bench I'd like to build and way cheaper than anybody
else I've seen.

I don't know if this is any cheaper or better, but in the current
Woodcraft sales flyer[1] that arrived in the mail today, I see they've
got laminated maple bench tops on sale. I was going put up a URL, but
Woodcraft's web site is still showing the old sales flyer. In case
you don't receive it, here's what they're offering:

24" x 60" 70 lbs regular: $249.99 sale: $199.99
30" x 60" 88 lbs regular: $269.99 sale: $215.99
24" x 84" 98 lbs regular: $299.99 sale: $239.99

For those like me, with no Ikea near by, but have a Woodcraft store in
the area . . .


Grizzly sells laminated maple bench tops at

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2008/Main/270

On Jan 25, 9:16 pm, "Michael Faurot"
wrote:

you don't receive it, here's what they're offering:

24" x 60" 70 lbs regular: $249.99 sale: $199.99
30" x 60" 88 lbs regular: $269.99 sale: $215.99
24" x 84" 98 lbs regular: $299.99 sale: $239.99

For those like me, with no Ikea near by, but have a Woodcraft store in
the area . . .

While the woodcraft ones are of a different class the Ikea ones are 30
Bucks for some sizes.

Solid Beech
Length: 48 7/8 ", Depth: 15 ", Thickness: 1 1/8 "
$29.99

Length: 73 1/4 ", Depth: 25 5/8 ", Thickness: 1 1/8 "
$59.99

Not too shabby. Put some 3/4" ply under that and you should have a
nice rigid top.

"Josh" wrote in message
...
I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...

http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...apBench-ne.pdf

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any
help would be awesome!

I actually kinda doubt that it's "green"...it may be wet, but I haven't
seen construction grade lumber that wasn't dried in mo years than I care to
admit to having.

That said...it may be wet in a "sitting in the rain" kind of wet and it will
twist and warp no matter what, so...let it sit, stickered, and pick and
choose when it comes time to make your bench.

Mike

"The Davenport's" wrote:

I actually kinda doubt that it's "green"...it may be wet, but I haven't
seen construction grade lumber that wasn't dried in mo years than I care
to admit to having.

You are invited to tour any lumber yard in SoCal to see a whole lot of wet
construction grade lumber.

It is the norm, not the exception.

Lew

The Davenport's wrote:


"Josh" wrote in message
...
I'm about to attempt building "Bob and Dave's Good, Fast, and Cheap
Bench"...


http://www.oldtoolsshop.com/z_pdf/sh...apBench-ne.pdf

But I've run into a snag before I even begin. Much of the lumber that
I had delivered to my home green... My 2x4x12s are green, and my 2x8s
are green. I got a bunch of 2x4x8 that are STD-DRY Enough to make the
bench top. My question is, can I use any of this lumber, can I still
make mortise and tenon joins with green lumber? I didn't realize I
needed to specify DRY when ordering construction grade lumber. Any
help would be awesome!

I actually kinda doubt that it's "green"...it may be wet, but I haven't
seen construction grade lumber that wasn't dried in mo years than I care
to admit to having.


The lumber one gets from either of the Borgs may not be "green", but if it
was ever in a kiln, the kiln setting was for "rare", not "medium"
or "well-done". The dimension lumber from those places usually looks great
in the store, but it feels wet even when picking it up. Take it home and
don't use it immediately and it will make corkscrews look straight in
comparison.

That said...it may be wet in a "sitting in the rain" kind of wet and it
will twist and warp no matter what, so...let it sit, stickered, and pick
and choose when it comes time to make your bench.

From what I've seen of that lumber, it has nothing to do with setting in
the rain.


If one were to buy a pallet of that wood and let is set, banded in a dry
place for a few years, one might get a pretty decent batch of dry dimension
lumber. Fresh from the store, not so much.


Mike

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

The main problem with that is that the butcher-block top will expand and
contract with humidity changes, while the plywood will not. As long as
you plan for this, you shouldn't have any problems.

Chris

That occured to me but I'm not sure how to address that. If the idea is to
in effect make the top thicker and tougher to support vises without danger
of cracking, what would be the best way to go about that provided I want to
stay with the butcher-block top?

DGDevin wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

The main problem with that is that the butcher-block top will expand and
contract with humidity changes, while the plywood will not. As long as
you plan for this, you shouldn't have any problems.

Chris

That occured to me but I'm not sure how to address that. If the idea is to
in effect make the top thicker and tougher to support vises without danger
of cracking, what would be the best way to go about that provided I want to
stay with the butcher-block top?



I"m guessing that expansion slots in the
plywood for screws routed in the
direction that's across the maple grain
would take care of the
expansion/contraction. And no glue on
the ply/maple surfaces.

But is that enough to hold the ply to
the maple?

--
Tanus

This is not really a sig.

http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/

"Michael Faurot" wrote in message
...

For those like me, with no Ikea near by, but have a Woodcraft store in
the area . . .

Oh oh, I didn't even realize Woodcraft had a location within driving range
until you mentioned them, and now I've talked the wife into dropping by
there this afternoon, just to take a look around. Something tells me she
doesn't actually believe that. Thanks for the tip, I think. ;^)

"yugami" wrote in message
...

While the woodcraft ones are of a different class the Ikea ones are 30
Bucks for some sizes.

Not too shabby. Put some 3/4" ply under that and you should have a
nice rigid top.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40091673

This is the one I was thinking of, about 25 x 50 for $89.00, for some reason
I remembered it being more like $50 but apparently that's for the 15" deep
version which is too small for my purposes.

On Jan 25, 3:34 pm, Chris Friesen wrote:
Josh wrote:
That
being said, I called the lumber yard this morning, and they said they
can switch out everything for kiln dried spruce. I'm going to go to
the lumber yard and check out the wood before the deliver/switch it.

Chances are good it will be %18 moisture. That's just the way it is for
construction lumber. If you can get Southern Yellow Pine construction
lumber where you are, that would be far superior to spruce.

Green Doug Fir is also far superior to kiln dried spruce. Doug fir
is supposed to be exceptionally stable when drying, unlike other
woods. THAT is why it is about the only lumber that is routinely
sold green.

It will shrink as it dries, but is not supposed to cup as other woods
will. Kiln dried spruce construction lumber will only be kiln dried
to
about 18% moisture content and would probably move worse as
it dries than will the green Doug Fir.
than the

Doug Fir is about as hard as Southern yellow pine.

I'm not surprised the lumber company will exchange
kiln dried spruce for green Doug Fir.

I would too!

--

FF

On Jan 26, 9:38 pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
"yugami" wrote in message

...

While the woodcraft ones are of a different class theIkeaones are 30
Bucks for some sizes.
Not too shabby. Put some 3/4" ply under that and you should have a
nice rigid top.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40091673

This is the one I was thinking of, about 25 x 50 for $89.00, for some reason
I remembered it being more like $50 but apparently that's for the 15" deep
version which is too small for my purposes.

While on that page, select 'oak' and zoom in on it.

Doesn't look like oak to me--looks more like stained rubber wood
or ramin. The beech does look like beech.

--

FF

On Jan 27, 1:19 pm, Fred the Red Shirt
wrote:
On Jan 26, 9:38 pm, "DGDevin" wrote:

"yugami" wrote in message

...

While the woodcraft ones are of a different class theIkeaones are 30
Bucks for some sizes.
Not too shabby. Put some 3/4" ply under that and you should have a
nice rigid top.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40091673

This is the one I was thinking of, about 25 x 50 for $89.00, for some reason
I remembered it being more like $50 but apparently that's for the 15" deep
version which is too small for my purposes.

While on that page, select 'oak' and zoom in on it.

Doesn't look like oak to me--looks more like stained rubber wood
or ramin. The beech does look like beech.

After selecting oak the page does claim that it is solid Oak.

product description & measurements
Solid oak, Oil

I would guess that if it wasn't solid oak that they would be sued.
IKEA would make a pretty big target for false claims lawsuits