On Sep 4, 4:55 pm, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Thanks Leon, your comments are always very entertaining. So, what
exactly did you do in your career (given all the time you spend on the
wreck, I just assume you are retired)? It would seem like you want us
to believe that you were the owner of a business that invented new
products and introduced them with very successful marketing
campaigns.

I certainly did not reach that conclusion from what Leon wrote.

Well, I suppose it's possible for two people to interpret the same
words in two different ways. With Leon reflecting on the success of
his "career", suggesting various courses of action for me to take, and
waxing eloquent on various paltitudes, it's the conclusion I came to.
Perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, it's not out of line to ask him to
elaborate on a topic that he raised (his "career"). I'd like to know
what qualifies him to be advising me in how to conduct my business.

Note that you specified that a rebate (from the factory, i.e. yourself)
could be obtained if one purchases your product via a new dealer.

New dealer, existing dealer - it doesn't matter. Buy from a dealer,
get a rebate.

Here,
you are asking potential customers to line up new dealers for you (yes,
I know it costs lots of dinero to hire a sales organization and visit
each of those dealers independently), but face it, you're asking potential
customers to do _you_ a favor.

Yep. No doubt about it. A favor in exchange for a 10% cash rebate.
Something wrong with that? I'm not asking them to go toe to toe with
the purchasing manager and negotiate terms for a contract. Geez, I'm
just offering a cash rebate for those who choose to buy their Aligner
at a dealer.

Many folks, as Leon and other have pointed out, don't find rebate offers
compelling, and some even avoid such product.

Indeed they did. I have acknowledged their dislike of rebates. I've
also listened to all their suggestions. I even listened to Leon's
suggestions. When I pointed out the problems with Leon's suggestions,
he started talking about his career, offering a number of platitudes
about what is most important and what I should do, etc. So, I decided
to ask him to qualify his statements. That's all. Let's just find
out what qualifies Leon to be giving me advise in how to run my
business. Wouldn't you like to know more about Leon?

So, after stating so, you attack him. That's not a good route towards
building a customer base, is it?

Where did I attack Leon? Please explain how it is an attack to ask
Leon to qualify his statements. What is wrong with asking him to
elaborate on topics that he raised in his message? If the questions
embarrass him or make him feel uncomfortable, or if he finds them
difficult to answer, then perhaps he shouldn't have raised those
particular issues. Perhaps he would be better off raising issues that
he finds easier to discuss.

I would certainly call your reply to Leon argumentative.

Well, once again we have two people interpreting the same words in two
different ways. Perhaps you think I'm now being argumentative with
you. I would say that two people can disagree on something without
arguing. Wouldn't you agree? The only way that two people can come
to a complete understanding is to discuss the issues: asking and
answering questions.

Thanks,
Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

Maybe you can get swingman (or another creative type wrecker) to write you
a
song.

You can call it The Overqualifiation Blues.

Too late, SWMBO already wrote it, for me ... it's has as the hook: "Where
Did You Sleep Last Night??".

(not what you think ... she was referring to the doghouse).



--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
. ..

"Leon" shared this gem with us

Lastly, as of Wednesday of last week I cordially withdrew my name from
an offer to open and manage a well known nationally recognized wood
working supply store. Having sent my resume in to inquire about a
possible part time job to add variety to my week I went to the interview
only to find out that I was being strongly considered for the store
manager position. I did not want to give up my present business for a
FULL time job.


There ya go Leon, you are just overqualified for that part time sales
position.

Well actually, their follow up e-mail indicated that the PT job is not going
to be a problem. ;~)


Maybe you can get swingman (or another creative type wrecker) to write you
a song.

I am not so sure Swingman writes the songs, I could be wrong, but all day
long I have had this catchy tune going through my head and the voice is
sounds exactly like his wife.


You can call it The Overqualifiation Blues.

;~)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

Maybe you can get swingman (or another creative type wrecker) to write
you
a
song.

You can call it The Overqualifiation Blues.

Too late, SWMBO already wrote it, for me ... it's has as the hook: "Where
Did You Sleep Last Night??".

(not what you think ... she was referring to the doghouse).




I thought so! The line that says something about a Handsome man from
Louisiana brought you to mine, although I have never really felt compelled
to evaluated your handsomeness. ;~)




--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 4, 4:55 pm, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Snip


In any case, it's not out of line to ask him to
elaborate on a topic that he raised (his "career"). I'd like to know
what qualifies him to be advising me in how to conduct my business.


I am not sure that I claimed to be qualified although my experience is
credible.

That said, you stated, "You say that there are better ways, please
share them!"

If you are not genuinely interested in others opinions, you should not have
asked.

"Stephen Bigelow" wrote in message
I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on
eBay, because so many other people had the same idea. No more rebates
for me.

You made a bad business decision. You got your rebate, you got your free
stuff, you got exactly what the seller intended. You have no complaint
against the manufacturer or the seller. What you did not get was the
opportunity to make a quick buck. Can't blame the rebate program for that.

On Sep 4, 7:03 pm, "Leon" wrote:

I am not sure that I claimed to be qualified although my experience is
credible.

I don't think you claimed to be qualified either. But, your message
alluded to qualifications so I asked you to elaborate.

That said, you stated, "You say that there are better ways, please
share them!"

Yes, I did.

If you are not genuinely interested in others opinions, you should not have
asked.

I am genuinely interested. I have read all of them. Some have led me
to make changes. I've explained why some aren't practical or even
possible. But, you'll have to admit, there was a point where the
ideas stopped flowing and the platitudes started.

On Sep 4, 5:25 pm, "Leon" wrote:
You asked,

Yep, I did. And, it is always interesting for me to learn about
another persons life experiences. I hope you don't mind me snipping
it for brevity sake.

At age 17 I... snip

Thanks for sharing. It sounds a lot like my brother. He's managed
several retail tire stores. Now he's managing a tire distribution
center for a large national chain.

I do have a bit of experience when it comes to customer service and
support. That's what I did for 17 years at HP. I developed and
implemented the service, support, and warranty programs for new
products. I've dealt with all sorts of customers from individual's
with a printer at home to Fortune 500 companies with hundreds of
thousands of pieces of equipment. I understand customer service - I
really do - on every continent and in every culture of the world.

The last product I worked on was responsible for more than $4 Billion
in revenue (yes, Billion with a "B", one single product!). My
planning (service parts stocking and distribution, call center
organization and training, repair depot training and organization,
warranty terms & conditions, etc.) saved the company more in warranty
costs on this one product than your company's entire annual sales.
Much of this experience has absolutely nothing to do with running a
small business.

Do you think that my customers are happy or unhappy with my products
and service?

I know that they are happy per comments by many here on this news group.

So admonitions about "pleasing the customer" would, by your own
estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?

Do you think that I have a high or low level of customer trust and
loyalty?

I would say for the customers that you have sold to that you have a high
level of both.

So admonitions about "gaining their trust" would, by your own
estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?

You know my product line, how much repeat business do you think I
should expect?

I am "familiar" with your product line. Not knowing the full range of your
line I could not guess as to whether you have repeat business.

Well, the answer is pretty darn close to ZERO. Once a person buys a
TS-Aligner there just isn't much need to buy another. It doesn't have
any consumables. It doesn't wear out. So, "repeat business" just
isn't a very good measure of the success of my marketing programs. I
live on referal business, google, and the occasional magazine article.

Based on what you know of my business and products, do you believe
that I'm always looking for easy solutions?

Again, only being familiar with your products I can only respond with a
reasonable answer. Any business person should look for the easiest
solutions however the customer should always be the first consideration when
making changes to a company policy or the way it interacts with its
customers. Sometimes a simple solution for you may affect your bottom line
negatively if the customer gets less than what he feels is fair. There is a
fine line between what is considered by you as an acceptable loss of
customers and what is not acceptable.

So, I guess nothing in your knowledge of me, my company, or my
products could possibly justify an admonition like "Nothing worth
doing is always easy".

Does it seem to you like I'm disinterested, inattentive, or
argumentative to what people are saying in this thread?

No, No, and Yes, at times.

Ya, I suppose you would probably consider this to be one of those
times. Sorry. It's meant to clear the air, promote understanding -
not be argumentative.

Ed, because you are mostly seen here sporadically and because you are
often mentioning your product here on this group I get the impression that
you come here more to sell vs. be a regular active participant to discuss
IYHO the best way to finish a product, where to get the best deals on
hardware, and so on. Because you do offer sound advice even though it is
often centered around your products this is fine with me. Same goes for
Steve Knight. We each use this group in a way that each of us feels is
best for us as individuals. Perhaps not as apparent I too have benefited
from receiving repeat jobs/customers through this news group.

If there was a point here, I missed it. Most of the time I spend on
the wreck is in the fall. There just happens to be a lull between
building up inventory during the summer and the holiday sales. I
announce the annual promotion and hang around until I get too busy.
So, you probably associate most of what I say with the annual
promotion. And, I tend to spend most of my time helping people with
machinery adjustment/alignment issues.

Anyway, it
has always been my experience that customer satisfaction is the ultimate
goal. With customer satisfaction and positive interaction with "yet to be
customers", comes new customers and money. I know that profits are
important however sales come first. With out sales, there are no profits.
With increased sales come more opportunities to generate larger gross
profits margins.

You do realize that I have been selling the TS-Aligner products since
1991, right? I'm not all that new to the whole customer satisfaction,
sales and profits thing. I don't pay people to rave about my products
newsgroups. They do it because they really are extremely satisfied.

Let's just touch on the "increased sales" thing. That's what the
dealer channel is all about. It's large scale exposure and
distribution like I could never do on my own. That's "the big
picture". I'm not going to drop customer satisfaction. I'm still
going to do everything I can to to promote positive interaction with
prospective customers. But, I just can't continue to sit on a
facility that can produce 100 times more product than I currently
sell. I have to do something. And the dealers just don't understand
the products or comprehend the sales potential. If it were made from
plastic in China and had a 10,000x markup they would understand. But
since it isn't, they need to see some demand before they will commit
to buy.

IMHO common mail in rebates do not generate enough increase in sales to
offset a possible loss of long term customer loyalty.

Just think about what you are saying. How is a rebate going to
adversely affect *MY* long term customer loyalty? Maybe if they get
****ed off at a poorly administered program, right? Well that's just
not going to happen in this case. And remember, there really isn't
much in it for me when it comes to repeat business.

Often rebates are
offered by the manufacturer to help the retailer move the obsolete or over
priced product off of the shelves to make way for a more popular, better
version of, or less expensive product. It is often that the replacement
product trumps the older version and is a better value than the older
version even if is not discounted. Basically the manufacturer takes the
hit rather than make the retailer suffer the loss associated with an over
all reduced price of inventory.

Rebates are also used to gather demographic info. And, sometimes they
are used to generate mailing lists for junk mail or sales leads for
telemarketing. None of these conditions apply to my situation.

Mail in rebates like product coupons are
seldom paid out because of the strict nonsense required to obtain the
refund. Many customers forget or give up while waiting for the refund.

Again, this just doesn't apply.

Having said that, I don't for a moment believe that your intent is anything
other than to do only the honorable thing for your customers. You seem a
bit too "hands on" to risk dissatisfaction from you customers and I commend
you for this. This country needs more businessmen like you and business to
be run like yours to rebuild its reputation and faith with it's customers.

I appreciate the compliment. But, you have to admit that it makes
your previous admonitions completely unnecessary. If you really
believe this then why all the fuss with the platitudes? I understand
and acknowledge the potential for problems. OK? Yes, these would be
valid concerns if I were thinking of hiring some scum bag company to
administer a program for one of the reasons you state above. But, you
know that this just isn't the case.

I think the whole problem with your thread was the mention of the much
resented "r" word.

Hmmmm..... OK. Sorry about that. Which "r" word are we talking
about? "Ret___" or "Reb___"?

Ed Bennett


http://www.ts-aligner.com
Home of the TS-Aligner

Maxwell Lol wrote:

... instead of sending them to a PO Box in Young America, Minnesota

I've never been wronged by the MN rebate center, but they are
SLOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

In the other hand, Staples does a great job via the online rebate
system, and I still think the MN company issues the check.

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 4, 7:03 pm, "Leon" wrote:



I am genuinely interested. I have read all of them. Some have led me
to make changes. I've explained why some aren't practical or even
possible. But, you'll have to admit, there was a point where the
ideas stopped flowing and the platitudes started.



Sorry Ed, I never set out to be condescending or too pushy with my ideas.

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 4, 5:25 pm, "Leon" wrote:



Thanks for sharing. It sounds a lot like my brother. He's managed
several retail tire stores. Now he's managing a tire distribution
center for a large national chain.

Very fond memories come flooding back when I step into a tire store and
smell the rubber. ;~)



I do have a bit of experience when it comes to customer service and
support. That's what I did for 17 years at HP. I developed and
implemented the service, support, and warranty programs for new
products. I've dealt with all sorts of customers from individual's
with a printer at home to Fortune 500 companies with hundreds of
thousands of pieces of equipment. I understand customer service - I
really do - on every continent and in every culture of the world.

When I was promoted to service sales manager my immediate task was to get
control of the volume of customer dissatisfied customers. Typically on a
Monday morning, our service advisors would receive 100 cars before seeing
the end of the line. A good 50% of those customers were back for the same
reason that they were in the previous week for. I will admit that there
were changes implemented to help the customer more but the product was the
biggest problem along with large corporation arrogance to not build a better
product.


Do you think that my customers are happy or unhappy with my products
and service?

I know that they are happy per comments by many here on this news group.

So admonitions about "pleasing the customer" would, by your own
estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?

I think that you cannot remind yourself enough as to who is the #1 priority.
I did not intend to insinuate that you did not have your customers best
interests in mind.


Do you think that I have a high or low level of customer trust and
loyalty?

I would say for the customers that you have sold to that you have a high
level of both.

So admonitions about "gaining their trust" would, by your own
estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?

Same as above.


You know my product line, how much repeat business do you think I
should expect?

I am "familiar" with your product line. Not knowing the full range of
your
line I could not guess as to whether you have repeat business.

Well, the answer is pretty darn close to ZERO. Once a person buys a
TS-Aligner there just isn't much need to buy another. It doesn't have
any consumables. It doesn't wear out. So, "repeat business" just
isn't a very good measure of the success of my marketing programs. I
live on referral business, google, and the occasional magazine article.

Well then my gut feeling was correct. I was not sure if you had other
products to offer or not. I naturally knew that you TS aligner would
probably be a one time purchase from a customer unless you were supplying to
a large shop.



Based on what you know of my business and products, do you believe
that I'm always looking for easy solutions?

Again, only being familiar with your products I can only respond with a
reasonable answer. Any business person should look for the easiest
solutions however the customer should always be the first consideration
when
making changes to a company policy or the way it interacts with its
customers. Sometimes a simple solution for you may affect your bottom
line
negatively if the customer gets less than what he feels is fair. There
is a
fine line between what is considered by you as an acceptable loss of
customers and what is not acceptable.

So, I guess nothing in your knowledge of me, my company, or my
products could possibly justify an admonition like "Nothing worth
doing is always easy".

No, it was just a statement.


Does it seem to you like I'm disinterested, inattentive, or
argumentative to what people are saying in this thread?

No, No, and Yes, at times.

Ya, I suppose you would probably consider this to be one of those
times. Sorry. It's meant to clear the air, promote understanding -
not be argumentative.

Yeah, but then again I was only meaning to reinforce the sentiment of others
about the general feeling about rebates. I did not mean to infer that you
would fall in with the group of companies that do not fulfill the
obligation. I just wanted to say that even by association of the "rebate"
term you may draw a negative view by a potential customer. I think you
would have to agree that a few including myself believe that a rebate sends
up a warning flag.


Ed, because you are mostly seen here sporadically and because you
are
often mentioning your product here on this group I get the impression
that
you come here more to sell vs. be a regular active participant to discuss
IYHO the best way to finish a product, where to get the best deals on
hardware, and so on. Because you do offer sound advice even though it
is
often centered around your products this is fine with me. Same goes for
Steve Knight. We each use this group in a way that each of us feels is
best for us as individuals. Perhaps not as apparent I too have benefited
from receiving repeat jobs/customers through this news group.


Anyway, it
has always been my experience that customer satisfaction is the ultimate
goal. With customer satisfaction and positive interaction with "yet to
be
customers", comes new customers and money. I know that profits are
important however sales come first. With out sales, there are no
profits.
With increased sales come more opportunities to generate larger gross
profits margins.

You do realize that I have been selling the TS-Aligner products since
1991, right? I'm not all that new to the whole customer satisfaction,
sales and profits thing. I don't pay people to rave about my products
newsgroups. They do it because they really are extremely satisfied.

No, I was not aware of that, nor would I have been surprised had you been
selling your product 10 years before that. Nor was I meaning to "whip you"
with the importance of pleasing the customer. I believe that pleasing the
customer cannot be stressed enough. Where I am coming from on this is from
the time I started to work, customer satisfaction was drilled. Drilled but
not proven. I was always fortunate to have worked in a store that had a
high volume of sales. Customer screw ups really did not ever factor in, our
store could have been twice as big and we still would have almost been too
busy with sales. Anyway when I worked for the last company, the AC/Delco
wholesaler, the father and son owned company, I saw first hand how screwing
up with the customer affected the business. Our wholesale operation did not
deal with the public at all. Our business customers provided a list of part
numbers that they wanted to buy and we filled the order. Our inventory
counts were 99.999 % accurate. 5 or 6 times a year we would find a single
deviation in quantity of what the computer said we had and what we actually
had. Our computer reflected the state of our inventory with remarkable
accuracy. Our customers appreciated it when they called for a part and we
said that we had it that we in fact did have the part even if the computer
showed a quantity of 1 on hand. Our customer basically never had to learn
of a back order from the packing slip. He knew when he placed the order if
he was going to receive the part or not. Having said all that, the owners
knew all of the customers personally and when competition stepped in and
started cutting in to the pie we naturally lost some sales. The owners had
become complacent about the #1 priority and would not change to get some
customers back. They would actually "punish" a customer that used another
wholesale provider when they would come back to us to order a part or parts
and would often triple their regular price. I still to this day shake my
head in disbelief. 6 years after I left the company the owners closed the
doors because sales had dropped to the point that having the money in the
bank earned more money than the net profit. The company was not sold, it
was simply closed down and the inventory was returned to GM for a discounted
credit. I believe to this day that the owners never saw the results of
their actions coming. These millionaires lost sight of the #1 priority.


Just think about what you are saying. How is a rebate going to
adversely affect *MY* long term customer loyalty? Maybe if they get
****ed off at a poorly administered program, right? Well that's just
not going to happen in this case. And remember, there really isn't
much in it for me when it comes to repeat business.

To restate, I was not certain whether or not you had repeat customers.


Often rebates are
offered by the manufacturer to help the retailer move the obsolete or
over
priced product off of the shelves to make way for a more popular, better
version of, or less expensive product. It is often that the replacement
product trumps the older version and is a better value than the older
version even if is not discounted. Basically the manufacturer takes the
hit rather than make the retailer suffer the loss associated with an over
all reduced price of inventory.

Rebates are also used to gather demographic info. And, sometimes they
are used to generate mailing lists for junk mail or sales leads for
telemarketing. None of these conditions apply to my situation.

Agreed, but the word rebate can portray a negative image regardless of
whether yours is or is not a well oiled machine that fulfills the rebate
obligations.



I appreciate the compliment. But, you have to admit that it makes
your previous admonitions completely unnecessary. If you really
believe this then why all the fuss with the platitudes? I understand
and acknowledge the potential for problems. OK? Yes, these would be
valid concerns if I were thinking of hiring some scum bag company to
administer a program for one of the reasons you state above. But, you
know that this just isn't the case.

If you have not guessed by now. ;~) I take customer satisfaction and
service very seriousely. I am a walking talking proponent of this way of
thinking regardless of who I am speaking with. Many people and I am not
saying that you are one of them, simply don't realize or have never realized
the reason for a down turn in business. Every thing can effect your
relationship with a customer, even things that may not be true about your
business relationship with him.


I think the whole problem with your thread was the mention of the much
resented "r" word.

Hmmmm..... OK. Sorry about that. Which "r" word are we talking
about? "Ret___" or "Reb___"?

rebate ;~) I consider it a bad word to use around a customer.

Thanks once again for the lively discussion.
Good luck with your "customer appreciation rewards program".

In article ,
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Stephen Bigelow" wrote in message
I learned my lesson with CompUSA -- lots of crap free after rebate, so I
bought a bunch, even though I didn't have a real need. Spent $150, got
maybe $30 back, and had $120 worth of crap that I couldn't even dump on

You made a bad business decision. You got your rebate, you got your free
stuff, you got exactly what the seller intended. You have no complaint
against the manufacturer or the seller. What you did not get was the
opportunity to make a quick buck. Can't blame the rebate program for that.

No, the intent wasn't to dump on eBay, the intent was to truly get them
"free after rebate". The thought of dumping on eBay came after I
realized I got screwed by the rebate company (and hence CompUSA for
choosing the rebate company) and the thought of recouping some of my costs.
This was close to 10 years ago now, but even back
then, I truly didn't need 150 blank 3.5" floppies for $50. $50 minus a
$50 mail-in rebate sounded like a deal. Turns out the 25 pack for $5
would've been a better deal, seeing as how I never received my $50
rebate. At that point in my life, I was making 1/10th of what I make
now, and losing that $120 hit hard. (Anybody need any floppies? Still
got two boxes of 50, unopened.

Ya missed my point, though, in that rebates just tend to leave a bad
taste in my mouth. I'll still buy something with a rebate, but the
value of the rebate doesn't in any way factor into whether or not I'll
buy the product. Caveat: if the rebate is greater than about 25% of the
cost, I'll shy away.

Bringing this back to the topic, the 10% rebate on the TS Aligner
wouldn't make me run out and get one. If I had been planning on buying
one sometime, it might make me go out and get one during the rebate
period. Having been a lurker here since 1996, I was always under the
impression that if I really wanted one, I could buy directly from Ed.

Knowing that I could now convince a dealer to sell me one, honestly, I'd
still try to buy directly from Ed first, rebate or not.

lurk mode on

--
Regards,
-Steve in Banks, OR
http://woodworking.bigelowsite.com

"Ed Bennett" wrote in message
ps.com...
So, am I correct in my understanding that the negative aspect of
rebates is a bad experience with a poorly administered rebate
program?

You got it! My definition of a poorly administered rebate program is any
program that doesn't give me my rebate as quickly and painlessly as they
charge my credit card.

I have been burned so often that if given a choice I usually select the
rebateless product.

-- Mark

Ed -- Reading more of the thread it seems the word "rebate" bothers lots of
us.

Why not call it a "Cash Thank-You for Buying from a Dealer"? ;-)

-- Mark

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Maxwell Lol wrote:
... instead of sending them to a PO Box in Young America, Minnesota

I've never been wronged by the MN rebate center, but they are
SLOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

In the other hand, Staples does a great job via the online rebate system,
and I still think the MN company issues the check.

It's a little known fact that Young America MN mail service is twice a
month, by arthritic burros. Mabel Larson process the rebates on
even-numbered Tuesdays and Wednesdays, when she feels ok.

-- Mark

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:02:02 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Ed Bennett wrote:
There are better ways to promote a product.


How is it that companies like Best Buy can offer competitive pricing to Circuit
City while at the same time avoiding the ubiquitous rebates that CC offer? I
don't know how they do it but I do know that they do it all the time.

To respond to your reply to the other poster, yes, the negativity associated
with rebates is directly related to poorly administered programs. They make you
hop through the hoops... if you forget to include one little requirement you're
out of the running... there are unreasonable restrictions. "One to a
household"? What the hell difference does it matter how many households are
involved? Isn't the whole idea to sell MORE items? Or would you rather it
remain "one to a customer"?

But let's say you jump through the hoops, cross all the t's and dot all the i's.
Then they just claim they never received it. Please remail it. However, since
the original proof of purchase was in the first envelope and the company won't
accept copies, that become a joke. However, the joke's on the original company
as I no longer buy their products. They only get one chance to rape me.

You had to ask these questions? You've never tried to get a rebate yourself?
You must lead a sheltered existence. I don't know anybody who hasn't been
screwed by a rebate offer.

They invest the rebate money on the spot market and the earned
interest makes up fot the discount to you. Plus any they can avoid
paying out is gravey in their pocket.
Made it simple for myself...I don't shop Circuit City ever, rarely
Office Depot. If I have to buy I pay full price over a rebate or wait
til there is an instant rebate somewhere else.
I have always been a fan of HP equipment until they bought Compac.
Having been royaly screwed by Compac on a lap top problem they knew
about in advance now HP is off my list! (helped my attitude some when
HP lost their ass in than purchase).
The old addage screw me once good for you screw me twice bad for me!